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Pocomoonskyeyes3
01-15-2011, 02:30 PM
The following video was news to me. I did not realize some of the consequences of these "Green" Light bulbs. I was unaware that they were toxic, required special handling or disposal. Also I was unaware that there was a law requiring them and only them to be used by 2014.

Due to this, I am truly concerned. You see I have broken one and just cleaned it up as I would any other bulb. Now I find out that I may have poisoned myself and family (Pets are of a secondary concern)! What other laws are also putting myself My family, and the environment at risk?

Green? I don't think so.......

4ZalyKzXnlo

Rick
01-15-2011, 02:41 PM
Welcome to our green world.

Pocomoonskyeyes3
01-15-2011, 03:02 PM
Welcome to our green world.

But that's just the point... our "Green World" is NOT all that it is portrayed to be. Matter of fact this is only "Green" if you are colorblind. This Green is actually "Red" (in more ways than one).

crashdive123
01-15-2011, 03:03 PM
Yep. Unfortunately it didn't get the coverage it deserved during the debate over it. Very few networks along with talk radio were covering the possible unintended consequences. Heck, one of the sponsors, Senator John McCain was doing an interview and the interviewer said something about how we were soon approaching the time when we would not be able to buy incandescent bulbs. Mind you, this was a year or two after the legislation became law. His response was (paraphrasing) what are you talking about? That wasn't in the bill. ---- It most certainly was. In addition to the potential harm to out environment, the plants that make incandescent bulbs are shutting down, putting people out of work. The new plants that are making the CFL' are opining in other countries. Yep - great law they passed. "Green" street lights that were switched over to LED's (by law) in northern climates are finding that the snow does not melt off the traffic signals the way it did. OOOPS.

I'm not against using CFL's - I am against not having a choice.

crimescene450
01-15-2011, 04:24 PM
Coal plants also release quite a bit of mercury. So theoretically, by using a swirly lightbulb, you use less coal energy, and therefore release less mercury in the end.

I dont understand why they cant make them without mercury though.

LowKey
01-15-2011, 05:02 PM
It's amazing how many people do not know those curly bulbs shouldn't go in the trash.
Or if you break them, it's just as bad as breaking a florescent tube.
They don't work well in the cold.
Even with the spectra available, I hate the light that comes out of them.

We have a collection box at work where people can bring their dead ones. Not broken ones though. It would take a homeowner forever to fill a collection box, so I'm guessing they are going in the trash.
Yay for "green" :pinch:

Rick
01-15-2011, 05:09 PM
I use them in my outdoor light and it works just fine in the cold. It's been down to 0 this year and still have light.

Camp10
01-15-2011, 05:16 PM
I use them in my outdoor light and it works just fine in the cold. It's been down to 0 this year and still have light.

I havnt had the same luck with them Rick. The only thing they have going for them IMO is that the generator up at camp doesnt have to work so hard running the lights.

LowKey
01-15-2011, 05:19 PM
Outdoors in cold weather. They do turn on but it takes them longer to get up to full power than in the summer. If you are just going out to the truck for something you pretty much have to bring a flashlight.

Rick
01-15-2011, 05:20 PM
Man, I don't know what you guys are using. The ones I have are just fine. Nice bright light. I'll go get the package and see what they are. I just grab whatever to be honest.

Rick
01-15-2011, 05:24 PM
Both of them are out of the package. I think they were G.E. but they are 13W for sure.

LowKey
01-15-2011, 05:30 PM
Mine were cheap (relatively speaking.) Bulk purchase online.
Maxlite 20w (75watt equivalent).

Pocomoonskyeyes3
01-15-2011, 07:58 PM
Got mine from Wally World. In cold weather it might as well be a candle, until it warms up. When working properly they are 100W or 150W equivalent. But until they are warmed up they are junk. Good for electric bill, but otherwise trash... oops I mean recycle bin.

SARKY
01-15-2011, 08:02 PM
And just who got rich on this green scheme??? Can you say algore? Yep he was the head pusher. Now why wouldn't they have pushed for LED home lighting? It uses less energy, lasts at least 10X longer and is NOT toxic. Doesn't that make it greener than the CFLs?

COWBOYSURVIVAL
01-15-2011, 08:09 PM
I converted my entire home to include floodlights...I am switching back....nough said!

Rick
01-15-2011, 08:24 PM
You can use L.E.D.s if you want, Sarky or halogen or fluorescent. You just can't use incandescent. The only thing the law stipulates is that lighting has to be 25% more efficient. It does not mandate what has to be used. In fact, incandescent can be used if manufacturing can design one that is 25% more efficient. And there are tons of exclusions. Traffic signals, 3 way bulbs, showcase and signage, rough service (trouble lamp), plant lights, and appliance lamps are just a few that can remain incandescent. Look for section 321 if you want to read all the goodies on light bulbs. It's the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:h6enr.txt.pdf

Chris
01-16-2011, 09:36 AM
I got pissed a couple years ago. There was this whole earthday or something push for these bulbs, sponsored by GE (a manufacturer of them) all these local media outlets around here did stories pushing their use, places were giving them away for free. Not a one of them mentioned you shouldn't throw them away, not a one of them offered recycling for them. I sent them all letters.

It is nice that now places like home depot and lowes offer recycling.

Anyways, the future hopefully is going to be in LED Bulbs (for home use anyways) use even less electricity, last even longer, and no mercury. These CFLs will just be transitory. The LED technology just needs to keep getting better.

Rick
01-16-2011, 09:39 AM
You can buy all kinds of LEDs for home use at Wal-Mart. But they aren't cheap.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sunmia-120V-AC-Round-Frosted-LED-Bulb/14472542?sourceid=1500000000000003260370&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=14472542

Pocomoonskyeyes3
01-16-2011, 01:31 PM
You can buy all kinds of LEDs for home use at Wal-Mart. But they aren't cheap.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sunmia-120V-AC-Round-Frosted-LED-Bulb/14472542?sourceid=1500000000000003260370&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=14472542
But then neither were the CFL's. Cost me about twice as much as an incandescent bulb, but lasted so much longer... I figured it was worth it in the long run. BTW I didn't know that either fluorescent bulbs or CFL's required special handling/disposal UNTIL I saw that video. I've been just throwing them in the trash as most people(I know of anyway) do.... That is one thing that upsets me so much. "Oh Here You have to buy these bulbs but we won't tell you about the danger they pose"
I know this, I've bought my last CFL's. Good thing it was only 6 of them I bought.... 2 of which were broken on accident (without knowing the danger posed) and disposed of in the trash.

Chris
01-16-2011, 02:06 PM
You can buy all kinds of LEDs for home use at Wal-Mart. But they aren't cheap.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sunmia-120V-AC-Round-Frosted-LED-Bulb/14472542?sourceid=1500000000000003260370&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=14472542

They also don't light up a room.

Last time I bought one was a year ago... the size of a 60 watt incandescent bulb, the light of a night light. Actually, maybe less than a night light.

The technology just isn't quite there yet.

LowKey
01-16-2011, 09:34 PM
The tech is getting there Chris. We are using them in place of neon in most sign and backlit store advertising now. The super-bright white ones are actually blinding. In fact, sign code writers are trying to think up limiting rules.
I'm willing to bet you could easily light a room by taping a ceiling with them.

It's kinda sad really. I liked neon.

rwc1969
01-16-2011, 11:53 PM
They certainly aren't good to throw in the trash, but most folks throw regular alkaline batteries in the trash as well too, and they are terrible for the environment.

It's a good point to bring this up, but there are many more toxic things going into our environment on a daily basis; car exhaust, radio waves, etc. etc.

I don't think having a choice to pollute outweighs our responsibility to move toward cleaner technology that uses less resources, provides better ore natural light, and creates less waste overall. Flourescent light bulbs do that, so I feel they are a good thing until a better thing comes along. I don't feel my rights are being violated by having to choose common sense.

It's unfortunate our government has to step in and make common sense decisions for us, but if they didn't we would never move forward. Just hope they don't take away our lead bullets.

Rick
01-17-2011, 08:33 AM
You really bring up a good point, RWC. Sadly, government is often required to push technology forward. It takes a lot of R&D dollars to develop new technology and most companies don't have the money or choose not to because what they sell is paying well. We are no different on the personal level. We could retrofit our homes to go solar and reduce pollution significantly but it costs money to do that so we maintain what we have.

crashdive123
01-17-2011, 10:15 AM
As a rule, I tend to disagree with that as a role of government. I understand the R&D costs and what it often takes to bring a product to market, but I think that the role of government should be to remove the barriers (regulatory) to that research, not mandate it using taxpayer funds. If a concept turns into a viable product then the developer (entrepreneur) reaps the rewards from their risk. If the product does not pan out, or turns out to be a bust (look at ethanol) then the taxpayers are not on the hook for bringing a bad, or at least "not ready for prime time" product to market.

2dumb2kwit
01-17-2011, 10:59 AM
As a rule, I tend to disagree with that as a role of government. I understand the R&D costs and what it often takes to bring a product to market, but I think that the role of government should be to remove the barriers (regulatory) to that research, not mandate it using taxpayer funds. If a concept turns into a viable product then the developer (entrepreneur) reaps the rewards from their risk. If the product does not pan out, or turns out to be a bust (look at ethanol) then the taxpayers are not on the hook for bringing a bad, or at least "not ready for prime time" product to market.

That's how I think about it, too....but you sure say it better than I do! LOL

Rick
01-17-2011, 11:05 AM
I agree with both you. However, we would not have more fuel efficient vehicles or cleaner air or water without mandates from government. As I said, it's sad, that's just how it is. The state of Indiana has had a huge role in pushing for wind farms in order to reduce coal fired plants.

crashdive123
01-17-2011, 11:33 AM
I don't disagree with that. I just wish the market would be allowed to compete unimpeded. For wind and solar - some will use it because they see it as a cleaner resource. Some will use it because it may be the least expensive option for them (remote off-gridders). I believe that more will use it once the technology and costs make it competitive. It's headed in the right direction. I realize that regulation is causing much of that advancement - I just don't think it should be the role of government. Here in Jax they just installed a solar farm. The city will be buying power from it at a rate many times higher than the coal fired plants that are already in use. They are doing it to comply with federal regulations that require a certain percentage of energy to come from "clean" sources.

LowKey
01-17-2011, 08:23 PM
At least you can see where the money is going when it is sunk into a local solar farm. Sure beats Cap & Trade. Buying carbon offsets offshore reeks of Feel Good politics and pyramid schemes.

Tundrascout
01-17-2011, 08:47 PM
At least you can see where the money is going when it is sunk into a local solar farm. Sure beats Cap & Trade. Buying carbon offsets offshore reeks of Feel Good politics and pyramid schemes.
Really? Who in the US makes the equipment and holds the service contracts?
Even in the most ideal situation, the economics are not there for solar, wind or geothermal even through attrition.

What kills me is that no one seems to think that any of these "alternative" fuel sources will have any impact on "Mother Earth", at least thats what they want you to believe.
Coal and Oil is dirty, Hydroelectric destroys ecosystems- and solar, wind or geothermal will have no impact? Come on.
Would a wind farm the size of Texas change the environment? No one asks that question.
If you believe that "Going Green" will save the earth, then you would have to believe that the size and scope of human's need for energy will always affect "Mother Earth."

Its all about who profits from supplying the fuel regardless of type, that is the debate in a nutshell.

LowKey
01-17-2011, 09:31 PM
If I had a chunk of land and wanted to cover all that good dirt with solar collectors 10' in the air and jump through all the regulatory hoops to do it, and sell power to Crash's town I guess I would be making the profit. Make it even better, put the solar collectors ten feet in the air and grow kudzu underneath and harvest that to make alcohol fuel.

But you are right, the environment under the farm suffers. So might whatever gets blinded or heated by the reflection off the collectors. Is this any different from what we do to the Earth to grow food. Plow it up, poison it, grow a monocrop on it, eat it and start over. Probably not. Sooner or later there is a limit. Whether it is in energy use, or food, or water, or whatever, the time will come when the limit is reached. War, eugenics, pestilence, who knows, but there is a correction coming in some form. Humans are no more immune to the consequences of overpopulation than any other living species here.

2dumb2kwit
01-17-2011, 09:50 PM
I think the number is well over 99% of all living things that have ever been on this planet are now extinct. Sooner or later, we will be gone, and "mother earth" will be just fine, LOL

Chris
01-17-2011, 10:15 PM
I think solar will eventually get parity with coal. It isn't there yet, but like the computer chip it gets a little better each year. A couple manufacturers are close.

Of course, all economics are dynamic, or should be. If we could make solar panels as cheaply as new coal power plants, and we decided to switch entirely to solar, the massive demand would increase raw material prices, and then maybe there goes your parity.

Just need more nukes.

Chris
01-17-2011, 10:20 PM
The tech is getting there Chris. We are using them in place of neon in most sign and backlit store advertising now. The super-bright white ones are actually blinding. In fact, sign code writers are trying to think up limiting rules.
I'm willing to bet you could easily light a room by taping a ceiling with them.

It's kinda sad really. I liked neon.

Oh I think they're fine at making things glow, fine for backlighting. They have them in LCDs and whatnot now, and those lights have to be superbright.

But as far as lighting up a room, or say, projecting light on a wall, I haven't see that yet. I'm sure the commercial ones used for street lights can, but they're not priced for home use.

I'd love to be wrong, I'd love to replace the halogens in my kitchen and dining room with bulbs that use a tenth the electricity.

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yellowcab
12-10-2025, 02:16 AM
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yellowcab
12-10-2025, 02:17 AM
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yellowcab
03-10-2026, 06:09 AM
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yellowcab
03-10-2026, 06:10 AM
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yellowcab
05-20-2026, 02:48 PM
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