View Full Version : Really?
klickitat
01-13-2011, 02:40 PM
Over the last 3 days I have been bopping around the net looking at different survival forums in my spare time. Which here lately has been little to none, but will increase here shortly.
I was struck by something that I never noticed before. I always assumed that most of the people on these sites knew what they were talking about when they post responses. Some of these sites are ridiculous.
Most of these people have never lived in the areas that they plan on going to when shtf. The fact is that most of these people live in urban areas and think because they visited or camped in a rural area that they can now survive in it as a stranger. HAH! What a joke! Like the kid who said "I'll be ok, I have my .22 GSG 5 for everything I need in way of defense and hunting." Guess who is getting shot on sight?
Then you got the guy who said that he would trade supplies for a gun when he felt like he needed one. ROFL. The guy with the gun will most likely take the supplies and leave the the guy with nothing if he is lucky and dead if he is not.
Another slicker talked about being able to shoot enough deer to survive for years. "If the indians can do it, so can I."
There was a bunch of general stuff too:
Like a person asking about a particular gun or knife and next thing you know everyone is telling them that they should own a semi automatic .50 BMG and nothing less than a 20" blade. Or I can't handle this because it is too big and someone completely ignorant tells them to get a bigger one, because they do not even understand the basics.
I also love the "experts" who's knowledge only comes from reading sporting magazines and are so enamored by the gun porn writers that, that is all they will parrot. They have never looked at history and what has worked for well over 300 years when it comes to ballistics and believe that only rocket science will kill chipmunks.
On the other end of that were the people who say "you should only have what I have, because I have spent the most money on all my stuff and am a self proclaimed expert. Never mind the fact that a 2 hour outing in my back yard is the extent of my experience using the gear I have.
You have to stop and ask yourself, How many of these members on these forums have:
1 raised a garden
2 raised and butchered animals
3 built a building
4 preserved food
5 can work on their own stuff
6 hunt on a regular basis
7 gather edibles on a regular basis
8 are proficient with a firearm
9 can start a fire in the wood stove with just kindling and a match
10 can read a compass and a topo
These are the basics. All these mean is that you can survive in a rural area and barely get you started in a wilderness area. If you do not have these basic skills then what the heck do you have any business answering question posed by people who are looking for answers to these questions. Even if you asked the same question and got an answer, until you have done it maybe you should pass the question on to someone who knows from experience what the hell they are talking about.
How many people out there are stocking up on equipment because someone told them it was the best and never took it out and tried it for themselves to see if it even worked for them? I understand the taking of a suggestion, but by golly you had better take it out and see if it works for you in your conditions.
Sourdough says it best when he says; "Boots in the field". I would also suggest a little caution and a whole lot of discretion when reading answers to questions on the internet.
BENESSE
01-13-2011, 02:56 PM
Couldn't agree more, klick.
Theoretical knowledge has to be field tested before TSHTF, otherwise you might as well get used to playing Russia roulette.
2dumb2kwit
01-13-2011, 03:04 PM
Kinda makes you appreciate this forum, doesn't it? LOL
What the @#$@ is this talk about other forums?!
JPGreco
01-13-2011, 04:02 PM
Thats why I don't answer questions often and only offer what little I know. It is also why any information I gather is crossed with other info for quality.
Long Island has no rurual areas and I know I'm in trouble when the SHTF cause there is no real way to go (a major target is only 70 miles away) and I don't have the skills and knowledge of the people on this forum. My only advantage is I probably know more than most people in my immediate area. I'm also smart enough to mcgyver contraptions together and understand principles behind a lot of things, which can help me apply them. I've wrenched on cars, and though don't know a ton, can probably get one working. I'm a carpenter so I can build stuff. The main thing I need still is a gun and in my area, a 9mm would work fine, though I would like a medium strength rifle as well. My only targets are people and deer.
Simply put, I'm smart enough to realize most people are morons. Come to think about it, my biggest concern are the people on survival forums from my area that think they are experts, which is nice, cause they probably have half the stuff I would still need and won't live long enough to use it.
According to Klickitat,
You have to stop and ask yourself, How many of these members on these forums have:
1 raised a garden - never had a garden (might this spring) but know the principles involved
2 raised and butchered animals - I've never raised livestock or butchered an animal, but I do have knowledge similar to those regards to apply.
3 built a building - From the ground up, but never with primitive tools like log cabin building.
4 preserved food - never done it, but again, understand jarring, drying, and smoking. This skills is a definite weak spot
5 can work on their own stuff - everything I've owned I've taken apart at least once to some degree
6 hunt on a regular basis - never hunted, but as a kid, trapped squirrels and birds for fun (released them) with a looney toons esq. contraption (a cage, a stick, and rope)
7 gather edibles on a regular basis - another weak spot, I don't know the local wild edibles.
8 are proficient with a firearm - only fired a gun at scout camp, a .22 and a shotgun.
9 can start a fire in the wood stove with just kindling and a match - This I can do
10 can read a compass and a topo - this I can do too and can navigate to some degree with just a map by reading topo an comparing it to visual clues.
So yeah, I'm in trouble, but at least I understand my weaknesses and am highly enjoying this site.
Old GI
01-13-2011, 04:03 PM
Hey klick: What should I do if I don't have a 50 cal? The only 20 inch knife I have is a machete, does that count? Those experts are kinda like BG walking into a mangrove swamp, but he did turn back and say it was a bad idea (eventually).
finallyME
01-13-2011, 04:33 PM
Well, I know what forum you have been to. ;) I stopped posting in the "wilderness" area because of the very reasons you mentioned. Another reason why I like this place so much. :)
crashdive123
01-13-2011, 04:36 PM
Soooooooooooo. What's the best survival knife?
JPGreco
01-13-2011, 04:42 PM
Soooooooooooo. What's the best survival knife?
http://www.trueswords.com/images/prod/dragon_bowie_custom_knife.jpg
Everything will fear you....
dolfan87
01-13-2011, 04:56 PM
You have to stop and ask yourself, How many of these members on these forums have:
1 raised a garden
2 raised and butchered animals
3 built a building
4 preserved food
5 can work on their own stuff
6 hunt on a regular basis
7 gather edibles on a regular basis
8 are proficient with a firearm
9 can start a fire in the wood stove with just kindling and a match
10 can read a compass and a topo
1. Yes, I have raised a garden...however it was next to the house with a hose bib available for me to water instantly. Much different than hauling water from a creek or well.
2. Raised? No. Butchered, yes.
3. Built a VERY nice tree house for my son. I could live in it. ;) Still need a lot more skills in primitive building.
4. I have smoked meat, and dried fruits. Need to learn how to can/jar stuff.
5. My ultimate strength. Have completely restored several classic Mustangs, and worked on a lot of friends and family vehicles.
6. Have not hunted in years. When I was hunting it was for quail/rabbits...so no large game experience.
7. Have never done this.
8. Expert in trap shooting, and have put thousands of rounds through my Glocks...another strength.
9. Have started a fire with a bow drill...and can use matches as well.
10. Never tried to use a topo map. This is actually my next project.
Great list, and I am actually in the midst of trying to begin locating property to have as a get away/survival place if needed. I want to be very familiar with the land I am retreating to, and slowly get things organized there. I will be coming here for answers on many things I am sure.
roar-k
01-13-2011, 05:20 PM
I have done the majority of things you have listed, but that by no means makes me proficient. Heck, just ask crash he probably already thew away the pepper jelly, salsa, and freezer jelly I sent him.
Wait. What? You gave Crash food? I do hope you realize under the new V4.1.1 vBulletin just loaded that when you send food to one mod you have to send food to all mods. It's in the rules.
Pocomoonskyeyes3
01-13-2011, 05:32 PM
Soooooooooooo. What's the best survival knife?
The one designed and made to perform the tasks at hand.....:nod:
klickitat
01-13-2011, 05:48 PM
This place has no immunity. Just pay attention to what is being said and who is saying it. Then if it is solid, check it out for yourself and make sure it works for you.
2dumb2kwit
01-13-2011, 05:50 PM
The main thing I need still is a gun and in my area, a 9mm would work fine, though I would like a medium strength rifle as well. My only targets are people and deer.
Might I suggest a Mosin-Nagant 91/30. Affordable, rugged, cheap bulk ammo, and they're really, really fun! LOL
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?11174-Mosin-Nagant-91-30
crashdive123
01-13-2011, 06:30 PM
I have done the majority of things you have listed, but that by no means makes me proficient. Heck, just ask crash he probably already thew away the pepper jelly, salsa, and freezer jelly I sent him.
Not true at all. I've been having a tablespoon of the freezer jelly every morning on my toast at breakfast. Pepper jelly is after that. Saving the salsa for the Super Bowl.
hunter63
01-13-2011, 06:49 PM
Well, those reasons listed is why I'm here........I like my info from them that's been there.
Just be careful of the dreaded Mosin Nagant disease..........................
Alaskan Survivalist
01-13-2011, 07:12 PM
Computer communication is substituting for real human interaction for many people. The ones looking for info only read. It is frustrating if you take this stuff serious and honestly believe bad, bad times are ahead and the unprepared will have no other option than to submit to the NWO joining the enemy of all free men. There is no hope this will not happen as it is happening and continues to worsen. Since I have accepted this I only post with the expectation that it may register in the back of someones mind and will give them one more option when all else has failed. I try not to contest information posted. If a person is open to alternative views I will share them but to often they are taken as opposing views in which case I end the conversation. The alter ego presented on the internet may very well be all they have and I just don't feel right taking it from them. The best you can do is post the best info you can and let it stand on its own merits. Don't be surprized when you see those same people posting your info on other forums as if they lived it and just take it as confirmation of your influence.
You have to stop and ask yourself, How many of these members on these forums have:
1 raised a garden Yes I have but a hobbyist size not one of those 1 acre things
2 raised and butchered animalsYes and yes, rabbits, pigeons, chickens
3 built a building Yes, I have built several structures, two barns and one house
4 preserved food Yerp, canning, salt pork and jerky
5 can work on their own stuffYes, I am mechanically inclined
6 hunt on a regular basis Yes, deer in the fall, adn turkey in the spring. Rabbits and squirral also
7 gather edibles on a regular basisother than the garden no.......do bees and honey count?
8 are proficient with a firearm State certified pistol adn rifle firearms instructor for police, now retired
9 can start a fire in the wood stove with just kindling and a matchdo it when ever the wife says its getting cold
10 can read a compass and a top Yes, from my old military days
Alaskan Survivalist
01-13-2011, 07:28 PM
A person does not have to know all those things things to be able to contribute good info. If they are talking about planting potatoes they only need to know is how to plant potatoes.
JPGreco
01-13-2011, 07:38 PM
AlaskinSurvivalist, you're one of my preffered people to take advice from. Even though I have not asked directly, some of the things you post do make me think.
One idea I had because of this forum (haven't followed through since I'm broke, but would be awesome to see someone do it) is in urban areas, a water tank. If I were to build a tank where the water main comes in, I could make it the size of the wall and it could hold 500 gallons easy. Assuming 1 cubic ft holds 7.5 gallons of water, and the usualy utility room is at least 8ft tall and has 10 ft long wall, then I can get at least 80 cubic feet (8ft tall, 10ft long, 1ft deep), which would hold about 600 gallons. Build this along the wall where the water line comes into the house and pipe it into the box. Then, at the other side of the box, an outlet that leads to the furnace/boiler or whatever. Now, you have a 500 gallon tank that rotates itself. Everytime you use water in the house, old water comes out, new water goes into the tank. A couple of shut off valves and you can isolate it. Best part is, if you do it right, you can hide it easily with a little work. The only downside is the initial filling of the tank would be a bit of a PITA and cost you a bit, but its better than containers of water IMO because it self rotates.
Sarge47
01-13-2011, 07:39 PM
You have to stop and ask yourself, How many of these members on these forums have:
1 raised a garden Yeah, & he's a cute little guy!
2 raised and butchered animals Does "Long Pig" count?
3 built a building I can hang a door on an outhouse!
4 preserved food That's why I have the fridge!
5 can work on their own stuff Well it'd be kinda silly for me to work on somebody else's stuff!
6 hunt on a regular basis Do it every day, I have a hard time keeping track of my keys! Also I sometimes "hunt & peck" when I type!
7 gather edibles on a regular basis Yep! Every time I go to the Super Market!
8 are proficient with a firearm I hit what I aim at!
9 can start a fire in the wood stove with just kindling and a match Well, you can try it without kindling, but I don't recommend it! I'm surprised you didn't ask about "banking" the fire!"
10 can read a compass and a topo Of course! Mine says "made in China!"
The bottom line here is that this is all moot anyway. Nobody knows what might really happen if TSHTF! It's all conjecture with a bit of fantasy & ego thrown in!
JPGreco
01-13-2011, 07:45 PM
Might I suggest a Mosin-Nagant 91/30. Affordable, rugged, cheap bulk ammo, and they're really, really fun! LOL
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?11174-Mosin-Nagant-91-30
Nice, simple bolt action rifle. I like it.
In fact, I forgot that I do have a gun (I know, some of you ar cringing). A friend of mine's father gave it to me for helping them move. I have no idea what kind of rifle it is though and its been in its case with a lock on it for years (I don't know where I put the keys). I should go get that out of storage and make sure it works. I've been told its some sort of bird rifle, whick confuses me since I would think you would just use different ammo in a standard rifle. I'll have to get a pic of it up and maybe you guys could help me. I also know my grandpa's old shotgun is around somewhere, but that thing definitely needs work before its ready to be fired again.
JP - You probably have a tank of water in your house right now. It's your water heater. Built as you described but a bit smaller.
AS - Sadly, I think you are right on the money. Fortunately, all things become self evident in time. That doesn't help the newbie or if you are delving into an area where you have no experience but there is no lack of opinions, qualified or otherwise.
JPGreco
01-13-2011, 07:58 PM
JP - You probably have a tank of water in your house right now. It's your water heater. Built as you described but a bit smaller.
Yeah, 55 gallons. Plus the toilet tanks, and the proximity to salt water that can be distilled. But for a bit of work, a 500 gallon tank would be awesome, especially since in my area, bugging out would be very difficult. I'd be competing with 7 million people, plus one of the only ways out is NYC, which in a SHTF scenario, might no longer exist and I might not want to be going towards (if nuked, though I might be dead anyway with a 1mt nuke from fallout).
Also, something to consider, a lot of new homes are going to instant hot water, and hot water tanks are becoming obsolete. I know I'd rather go with a much smaller tank and instant hot water through natural gas or/and a small tank heated by solar power. A large emergency tank would be excellent in any situation though.
Alaskan Survivalist
01-13-2011, 07:59 PM
JP Greco.To this you have to consider water pressure. Storage tanks may bulge unless thay are built for pressure. Any tank could be used as long as not pressurized and it would require another pump behind the tank to represurize water. I live on a creek and should I loose power my water pump is 220 and draws to much electricity for my small generator and solar panel so I have a smaller water pump that I can connect to the outside frost bib with water hose and presurize my water system. This will save a lot of money hooking up backup system. Water rotation could still be accomplished using hose frost bib to fill tank and using it for outdoor water usage like gardening or washing car.
JPGreco
01-13-2011, 08:07 PM
AS, I'm talking urban areas, where it's city water, so the tank is pressurized from the city and would be created to account for this. Its essentially the same thing as a hot water tank in every house on my street, just on a larger scale. It shouldn't affect pressure to much if designed properly (basically interior reinforcement)
randyt
01-13-2011, 08:13 PM
whatever you use for a tank you should put a check valve on the incoming line. it would be embarrassing if in a emergency if the city water pressure had dropped and back siphoned all the water out of your tank. If a conventional storage tank would work sometimes well drillers have used tanks cheap.
Alaskan Survivalist
01-13-2011, 08:17 PM
A 55 gallon drum will bulge, been there. City water or not I think only in terms of water supply. Once the city water is down so will the pressure that is needed to get it from tank. Gravity may work in certain conditions. The main point I was trying to comunicate is using you hose connection to save you some plumbing costs.
Alaskan Survivalist
01-13-2011, 08:24 PM
"8 are proficient with a firearm"
I have always said if I can see it I can hit it. Not much of a brag these days.
JPGreco
01-13-2011, 08:24 PM
I hear ya, but being a carpenter, that expense is minimal. A couple of feet of pex and some other odds and ends. Once city water goes down, a valve at the bottom of the tank would be used to gravity bleed it as you need it (after opening an air inlet valve at the top).
My only thought in regards to having the tank is access to clean water. I don't need it pumping. If I can open a valve and it pours into a bucket, I'm good.
Also, sorry for jacking this thread... lol
I installed two 50 gallon rain barrels so I have 100 gallons +/- plus my 55 gallon hot water tank. And we live next to a large lake so we should be good to go on water.
When I was younger dad installed a 20 gallon tank next to his 30 gallon hot water heater. Inbound cold water entered the 20 gallon tank first. It had a pipe that ran into the fire box of the furnace and back to the tank. Then it was plumbed to the inbound side of the water heater. In the summer it served no purpose other than a storage tank but when the furnace was on the water would circulate by convection and preheat the water before it entered the water tank. The theory being the water heater only had to heat water from say 100°F to 130°F instead of 70 to 130. I have no idea how effective it was but dad was happy with it so that was all that mattered to me.
randyt
01-13-2011, 08:26 PM
the conventional storage tank I'm referring to is a heavy galvanized storage tank that is used for a pressure tank in some well installations. these days most well systems are using bladder tanks and a a well driller ends up with some storage tanks in a pile behind their shop.
JPGreco
01-13-2011, 08:30 PM
Rick, that was a good idea by your dad. I've had idea's along those lines as well.
LowKey
01-13-2011, 08:38 PM
When I was scoping around, this site seemed to have a much more open but no-nonsense attitude when it comes to the important things. And I like you don't take any bull**** here. I've been knocked around a few times based on things I was told by others and appreciate getting the compass reset.
As far as that list at the beginning of this thread, all but 6 and 8 though I can hit the target I'm aiming at. Doubt I could get a dead car running either but smaller stuff, if parts are available, sure.
Batch
01-13-2011, 10:47 PM
You have to stop and ask yourself, How many of these members on these forums have:
1 raised a garden
2 raised and butchered animals
3 built a building
4 preserved food
5 can work on their own stuff
6 hunt on a regular basis
7 gather edibles on a regular basis
8 are proficient with a firearm
9 can start a fire in the wood stove with just kindling and a match
10 can read a compass and a topo
1) we got avacadoes, bananas, coconuts growing out back now. Usually, have pineapple and peppers too. Between that and the animals that come in to eat the fruit. You could live. But, I ain't no gardener nor is that a garden.
2) When I was a kid we raised rabbits. We supplied the Weblos and Boy Scouts with rabbit meat for the jambories, supplied the local per stores and sold them at the flea market. We were told we had to get rid of all but three by the city. So, we had two weekends to slaughter 175 rabbits. I have butchered many different types of animals.
3) Construction my whole life.
4) I've limited experience here. I have dried some things, pickled some, smoked some and canned a little. Definetly a beginner here.
5) I can do a lot of stuff. Everything in a house except maybe delicate soldering. Electrically wise if they got power to the pole I can fix the problem. I can rebuild the carbs on my genies and get them running. I can do most of the work on my truck, quad or boat. My job requires a real broad knowledge of tools and a pretty broad knowledge of construction technique. I have built dozens of computers.
6)I hunt archery through spring turkey and I can fish as well.
7) Been getting better and better at this. But, a lack of need means I usually just eat it in the field and don't really gather anything in mass.
8) I have broad knowledge of most firearms. The idea being even if I don't have a weapon I can use any weapon I acquire. But, I can shoot the $hift out of some $hift and like to diversify my fire arms collection.
9) I can start a fire in the rain with nothing but determination and my brain ( and a match and some kindling.) LOL
10) I can read a compass. We need them for ocean fishing. But, I would love to see a topo be of use out where I go.
NotSoOldCrone
01-13-2011, 11:05 PM
I liked those questions a lot! Got me thinking. The hubby's dad was a survivalist, so by proxy was he. I was indifferent until about 2 years ago, and I slowly started picking up a book here, learning a new skill there. Then Michio Kaku reported on the possibility of solar flares (which got whole heartedly overlooked thanks to some outlandish 2012 claims). I actually know 2 physicist though- 1 astro and 1 quantum. Both are very serious about preparing themselves....so I sorta' put the whole learning thing into high gear. LOL
So, even though it wasn't really a quiz, here's where I rate:
1 raised a garden- A small one- I have learned it'll take a MUCH larger one to get a year's worth of food.
2 raised and butchered animals- Rabbits (God, I hate killing rabbits....not 'cause they're cute, which they are, but because I've not dealt a good enough blow a few times and SHEESH!) and pigs. I've also butchered a few raccoons, but don't prefer the meat....if I'm starving though I'll probably eat anything.
3 built a building- on the list....not yet (er, a brush shelter is what I am planning on)
4 preserved food- canning- I want to learn salting and smoking
5 can work on their own stuff- some, the hubby just spent the better part of a night explaining to me the difference between AC current and DC current, prompted by my question could you salvage things, and what things, to make a bicycle run on a motor. I eventually got it, theoretically after a lot of friggin' math! (i.e. Propelling tire radius @ 500RPM= how may revolutions on bike tire radius= how many revolutions to cover what distance, yada yada)My algebra teacher was right. :wacko: Anyhoo, the fastest my theoretical "motor" bike got was about 10MPH, at which point I theoretically dumped it a stole a golf cart from somewhere.
6 hunt on a regular basis- kinda', LOL. I catch squirrel, opossum, raccoon, armadillo, pigeons ect everyday. It's sort of hunting. (Don't get the opportunity to hunt big game much, but what I do is still eatin' if I had to)
7 gather edibles on a regular basis- YES!
8 are proficient with a firearm- Absolutely! My best is a 1.5" group at 200 yards with a 15 MPH cross wind. (220 Swift, prone)
9 can start a fire in the wood stove with just kindling and a match- yes, or flint and steel. Still trying to perfect my fire piston though.
10 can read a compass and a topo- I still need a little guidance on the topo...but almost there.
Maybe I'm a crackpot, but I even have SHTF booby trap plans to know if someone is raiding my garden at night. My only concern in the whole senario is Martial Law...takin' my stuff for the "common" good. Not sure what I'll do there.....hide deep in the woods?
(Gosh... sorry for the novel....lol... you got me on a roll!)
Winter
01-13-2011, 11:34 PM
Quit whining Klick!
People interested in survival go to forums. If only experts were on a forum no questions would get asked.
Seems your list has become a quiz, so I'll answer it honestly.
1 raised a garden- yep, I'm not very good at it.
2 raised and butchered animals- You mean like a farm? no. I've raised pugs and now have chickens. Of course I've dressed pig, rabbit, chickens, deer, fish.etc.
3 built a building-That's my living
4 preserved food- never canned. Made cheese, it wasn't good after I started aging it. Curds were delicious.
5 can work on their own stuff- I'm horrible at electronics.
6 hunt on a regular basis- successfully?
7 gather edibles on a regular basis- sure, but it's easy here
8 are proficient with a firearm- Airborne!
9 can start a fire in the wood stove with just kindling and a match- I prefer a quicker fire.
10 can read a compass and a topo- yes
lucznik
01-14-2011, 12:10 AM
I suppose I'll take the "quiz."
1 raised a garden- Yes. I haven't for a few years but, I sure enjoyed the fresh fruits and vegetables when I did. I should get back into that...
2 raised and butchered animals- Raised - No. Butchered - Yes, all the time. We do all our own butchering in my family.
3 built a building- Not by myself, but I have assisted in some carpentry jobs.
4 preserved food- I smoke meats all the time. I have done a fair amount of dehydrating. I have not canned or bottled anything, yet.
5 can work on their own stuff- Depends on what you mean. I make a lot of my own leather gear. While no tailor, I can do basic sewing. I'm no mechanic, but I've fixed my own (and others') vehicles on occasion. I'm no plumber, but I've repaired my sinks, toilets, and replaced some of my own pipes. So, I guess I can work on my own stuff...
6 hunt on a regular basis- At every possible moment. Probably a great deal more often than most people. That's one of the perks of living where I do.
7 gather edibles on a regular basis- Not a lot of edibles to gather here. I do need to learn more about this skill. Any suggestions on a guide to high Rocky Mountain edible plants (meaning above 7000 feet).
8 are proficient with a firearm- I'm no sniper, nor am I part of the "tacticool" crowd, but I kill plenty o' stuff every year and eat very well as a result. I guess that counts as "proficiency."
9 can start a fire in the wood stove with just kindling and a match- Able to - yes. However, I prefer other methods to matches.
10 can read a compass and a topo- Can't everyone?
DOGMAN
01-14-2011, 12:34 AM
I am pretty well versed on all these things...but could be better, there is always room for improvement. I would add to this list First Aid skills...I think anyone serious about survival should have at least Wilderness First Aid....or something equivalent
1 raised a garden...Yes, I lived on an Organic Farm and goat dairy for a few years traded labor for my keep - (average gardening skills)
2 raised and butchered animals... yes, from goats to poultry...I am a good butcher (above average/good animal husbandry and butchering skills)
3 built a building- built a straw bale cabin in college and lived in it...also have built a log cabin...don't know much about electricity or modern plumbing, but I can get by (Average building skills)
4 preserved food...yes, I can make jerky, can, and smoke meats...I would like to get better at this, I grew up doing it, and my in-laws practice it dilligently...so I see it alot, am around it alot, however, i don't do it every year (novice preserver overall)
5 can work on their own stuff- depends what it is...my new F350 diseal...not so much, my ATV and snowmachine and house yes....(average/basic mechanical skills)
6 hunt on a regular basis...yes been hunting my whole life- hunting guide for many years...(excellent hunting skills)
7 gather edibles on a regular basis...yes, in summer and fall I know alot of edibles in my area...winter not so much...i gather lots of shrooms, and berries- (above average/good gathering skills)
8 are proficient with a firearm...yes really well practiced with rifle and shotgun...not too much pistol shooting- (excellent shooting skills)
9 can start a fire in the wood stove with just kindling and a match...yes and start a fire with a bow drill and a host of other ways- (excellent fire building skills)
10 can read a compass and a topo - like the back of my hand- (excellent navigation skills)
This is kind of a neat quiz, because it makes you analyze your experiences and skill set...great post!
klickitat
01-14-2011, 12:40 AM
The check list wasn't meant as a what can you do list. It was meant as a reality check. If you can not do these basic things, then you will not make it past rural survival and you can forget about wilderness survival. It was also meant as a gauge to hold against some of the people who answer wilderness survival questions. If they can not survive rural life, why would you listen to something they had to offer about wilderness survival?
Alaskan Survivalist
01-14-2011, 01:11 AM
"A wise man will learn more from a fool than a fool will learn from a wise man"
mountain1
01-14-2011, 01:41 AM
i hear excatly what you are saying about some other places(fourms)...whew...what a mess.
we all can learn something new everyday though. that's my philosophy anyway.
klickitat
01-14-2011, 01:49 AM
"A wise man will learn more from a fool than a fool will learn from a wise man"
That is so funny. To this day I still remember what my Dad to me when I left the house after graduation. "Boy remember to learn something form everyone you meet, even if all it is, is what NOT to do."
rwc1969
01-14-2011, 01:52 AM
...You have to stop and ask yourself, How many of these members on these forums have:
1 raised a garden
2 raised and butchered animals
3 built a building
4 preserved food
5 can work on their own stuff
6 hunt on a regular basis
7 gather edibles on a regular basis
8 are proficient with a firearm
9 can start a fire in the wood stove with just kindling and a match
10 can read a compass and a topo
...
Sourdough says it best when he says; "Boots in the field"... I would also suggest a little caution and a whole lot of discretion when reading answers to questions on the internet.
I agree!
1. yes
2. yes, or at least helped. I know enough to know there's much more to raising animals than most realize.
3. Never built an entire building, but have built or re-built most parts thereof at one point or another in my life. I'm sure I could finger it out.
4. yes, but I would like to preserve more, especially by canning.
5. I'm the only one that I can afford to pay, so yes.
6, 7 and 8. yes, very much so. I'm pretty accurate with rocks, sticks, spears, slingshots, bows and arrows and just about anything else too, not bragging of course.
9. I haven't owned a match in probably 20 years, but I can start fire with a rope so I'll call it good enough.
10. Define read! I can navigate and even determine likely habitats, flora, and fauna based on topo features.
Just because there's bogus info on the net doesn't mean there's no good info. I've encountered know it alls, yahoos, and people that simply have no clue and spread rumors in all walks of life from the corporate world of white collar, to college, high school and elementary teachers, to the factories, construction sites, businesses and residences, on to the playground and in the bars and libraries. I've seen it in highly respected "factual" books and on proprtedly accurate TV and cable shows.
The one thing I didn't see on that list was common sense and good judgement of character. I've got both of those so I can weed thru the BS and figure out for myself what is right and who is wrong.
:rambo::argue:
klickitat
01-14-2011, 01:56 AM
I did not put those in the list but thought I cover that in the last line.
Winter
01-14-2011, 03:11 AM
Being the internet, we could all just be lying. Thought I'd throw that out there.
mountain1
01-14-2011, 03:15 AM
there is nothing i hate more than a liar and a thief. i guess their one in the same.
Alaskan Survivalist
01-14-2011, 03:20 AM
Who would believe the truth?
mountain1
01-14-2011, 03:32 AM
honest people.
Alaskan Survivalist
01-14-2011, 06:37 AM
We'll see. I hear so many talk about how great they can shoot at long distances without ever demonstrating the knowledge to do it. I'm going to start a thread on the subject and see what happens.
Sarge47
01-14-2011, 10:08 AM
I disagree with the op of this thread. 1st, nobody can predict what might constitute a survival situation. It may not be a "rural situation" but an "urban" one. Next you didn't list any medical/1st aid knowledge on your list. Why do people tend to think that no matter what happens that they're going to come through it all right while no one else is? What if your house has been hit by a tornado and you wake up to find your wife dead, your kids gone, and you have two broken legs? How does all that other knowledge help you?
2nd, it's "The will to live" that separates the "wheat from the chaff;" not how well you can do stuff. History has shown that over & over again. On every survival forum out there, including this one, there are many unrealistic views. Ken & I were talking on the phone last night & he said that if he had been placed in the middle of a survival situation while he was stove up with those kidney stones he'd be dead right now! As someone who also suffers from kidney stones I know exactly what he's talking about. What about someone who's diabetic & has to take insulin on a regular basis? What if they have congestive heart failure? It's not all a young man's game.
3rd, how do you know where you might be when a survival situation comes up? What if you're lost at sea, how does that list help? How would you start a fire? Use a topo map? Hunt game? etc..
4th, Why do some people tend to think that being a great shot can prevent them from getting a bullet in the back of the head? Having a great deal of knowledge does not make one bullet-proof! :no:
BENESSE
01-14-2011, 10:20 AM
All great points, Sarge.
Just when you think you've mastered one thing (if that's even possible) there are 10 you haven't even thought about.
If we're smart, the quest never ends 'til the day we die.
BENESSE
01-14-2011, 10:37 AM
One thing I've tried to get across throughout my postings is how fundamental good health and fitness are (physical and mental) in any survival scenario. Without it, everything else is a house of cards--much like building a house on a weak and shaky foundation. It might stand when all's well, lull you into a false sense of security. But remember, you're prepping for TSHTF. Does your "foundation" match the rest of the structure?
roar-k
01-14-2011, 11:22 AM
Wait. What? You gave Crash food? I do hope you realize under the new V4.1.1 vBulletin just loaded that when you send food to one mod you have to send food to all mods. It's in the rules.
Yes, he got 3 jars of some of my canned goods. Although I cannot remember if I gave him the Mild or Extremely hot salsa. As for the pepper jelly, some like it some don't.
roar-k
01-14-2011, 11:24 AM
Not true at all. I've been having a tablespoon of the freezer jelly every morning on my toast at breakfast. Pepper jelly is after that. Saving the salsa for the Super Bowl.
I got an offer for you crash and if you want to take it up you can. If you ever want some more of any of those 3 send the jar(s) back to me and tell me whichever you want another fill of and I will send it to you.
klickitat
01-14-2011, 12:13 PM
I disagree with the op of this thread. 1st, nobody can predict what might constitute a survival situation. It may not be a "rural situation" but an "urban" one. Next you didn't list any medical/1st aid knowledge on your list. Why do people tend to think that no matter what happens that they're going to come through it all right while no one else is? What if your house has been hit by a tornado and you wake up to find your wife dead, your kids gone, and you have two broken legs? How does all that other knowledge help you?
2nd, it's "The will to live" that separates the "wheat from the chaff;" not how well you can do stuff. History has shown that over & over again. On every survival forum out there, including this one, there are many unrealistic views. Ken & I were talking on the phone last night & he said that if he had been placed in the middle of a survival situation while he was stove up with those kidney stones he'd be dead right now! As someone who also suffers from kidney stones I know exactly what he's talking about. What about someone who's diabetic & has to take insulin on a regular basis? What if they have congestive heart failure? It's not all a young man's game.
3rd, how do you know where you might be when a survival situation comes up? What if you're lost at sea, how does that list help? How would you start a fire? Use a topo map? Hunt game? etc..
4th, Why do some people tend to think that being a great shot can prevent them from getting a bullet in the back of the head? Having a great deal of knowledge does not make one bullet-proof! :no:
You disagree because you did not comprehend what was written or you just did not take the time to read it. Is this not a WILDERNESS SURVIVAL site? Just so that you are clear, the OP was really a caution to people to pay attention to the person writing a reply. There is a lot of crap that gets spewed out and if a person tries to call certain people on it, they are chastised for hurting some poor persons feelings. The list was a comment about basic rural life and was used as a counter point for those who are thinking of running to the hills. There is no need to be offended by any of my comments. While I was on my break I ran around looking at other forums and just noticed that there are a lot of goof balls out there. This site has a handful too just not near as many as some sites. I have a website that I run and we run off the idiots in a quick hurry. We do not have the biggest site of it's kind, but we do not have the intolerable idiots either.
kyratshooter
01-14-2011, 12:39 PM
I must agree with the OP, there is a distinct shortage of useful information out there right now. The number of forums has decreased in the past year and the quality of those that remain is dissapointing. Most, as noted, are more wishful thinking and speculation than fact or they are instruction manuals for running and gunning/shoot'em and loot 'em. The basic attitude is that of a stray dog: If you can't eat it or f$%& it, then shoot it.
One of my common notations is the number of people with an imaginary Bug Out Location. They can not do anything on the list, they have nowhere to go, but they have a BOB, a half tank of gas and 5,000 rounds of 7.62 for their AK.
As for the "list", it is good for certain areas and specific conditions. Everyone should know those things, and everyone did just a few years back. But there needs to be more learning than the list.
What knowledge makes you special? What makes you a contributing member of a group, doing something besides contract murder or looking pretty? Med skills, mechanical knowledge, blacksmithing, large scale carpentry, makeshift cartridge reloading, giving a kid an education from K-12, counceling and spiritual guidence (pastors were in big demand on the early frontier; weddings, funerals, grief assistance. Daniel Boones' brother was an ordained pastor.)
You do not know what the situation will be, true, but there are universal skills that have been discarded in the past 50 years. We need those back and some more. My garden does not look like grandad's garden. My livestock is not what grandad raised. My car is not even tuned up like his was.
The main difference I see between this forum and some of the useless dribble on the internet is that the people here have lived through some rough crap. No matter what direction the ball falls they will have had some experience inthat area, and will be quick to add more.
JPGreco
01-14-2011, 01:28 PM
One of my common notations is the number of people with an imaginary Bug Out Location. They can not do anything on the list, they have nowhere to go, but they have a BOB, a half tank of gas and 5,000 rounds of 7.62 for their AK.
As I've said, thats my biggest worry in my area because there is nowhere to go. An island with 7 million people thats only 118 miles long and 23 miles wide at its biggest points with only two directions to go to get off of it, with one of those being a primary target in a SHTF scenario, will be trouble. The only other way off requires a boat and since there will be more people than room on boats at any given time, it will be mob mentality to get on them to begin with, then you have rely on the good nature of another to come back with the boat for more people.
Hence why I do not have a BOL. Its unrealistic and I should be making plans and preperations for staying put.
JP - While I understand your reasoning you should still have a BOL identified. It may be a relatives or even a hotel. It doesn't have to be a grassy meadow by a clean mountain lake. There are any number of scenarios in which you would HAVE to bug out. Staying simply isn't a choice. In those cases, you need to have somewhere identified or you will be wandering aimlessly without a plan.
ravenscar
01-14-2011, 02:26 PM
JP Greco.To this you have to consider water pressure. Storage tanks may bulge unless thay are built for pressure. Any tank could be used as long as not pressurized and it would require another pump behind the tank to represurize water. I live on a creek and should I loose power my water pump is 220 and draws to much electricity for my small generator and solar panel so I have a smaller water pump that I can connect to the outside frost bib with water hose and presurize my water system. This will save a lot of money hooking up backup system. Water rotation could still be accomplished using hose frost bib to fill tank and using it for outdoor water usage like gardening or washing car.
could large pvc pipe elbowed back and forth work?
kyratshooter
01-14-2011, 02:43 PM
Realisim Rick!
A motel is not a BOL, it is a dream that can be crushed by turning on the "no vacancy" sign. How many motels does it take to house 7,000,000? How far do you go to find one not in the affected zone?
As soon as one reaches their BOL and realizes it is not vacant for use, is under armed guard, is contaminated or otherwise uninhabitable, they can not reach the target, the bridges are out or it is simply too dangerous to proceed, they have just joined the aimlessly wantering horde.
They are then subject to round-up and containment in a "shelter".
Everyone should wake up and realize that the proper term for people "bugging out" is REFUGEE!
In all things history sould be considered. In WW1 and WW2 the waring powers used the refugee to their advantage. A quick strike to get people bugging out, clogging the roads and restricting military traffic to slow response and channel flow of the armies. Then the sweep of a large mechinized force using the refugees as human cover for their advance. This process was developed as a purposeful stratigy by the Germans in WW2 and was a major tatic used by the Chineese in the Korean War. Refugees were used as a weapon.
There are still people alive today that are trying to recover their property and find their relitives lost in "bug outs" between 1937-1945. There are still families seperated by the 38th parallel in Korea.
and there are still a few poor souls stuck north of the Ohio River who never made it far enough south to reach the promied land!
oldsoldier
01-14-2011, 03:27 PM
[QUOTE=klickitat;272301I1 raised a garden
2 raised and butchered animals
3 built a building
4 preserved food
5 can work on their own stuff
6 hunt on a regular basis
7 gather edibles on a regular basis
8 are proficient with a firearm
9 can start a fire in the wood stove with just kindling and a match
10 can read a compass and a topo
Guess I'll chime in here. growing up in the country, growing a garden was pretty much normal. We always had a very large garden and used it to provide 70% or more of our own meals.
2..... Same as #1 we had chickens, turkeys, ducks, rabbits, we raised for food as well as eggs from the chickens and ducks. usually helped friends who had beef and milk cattle, traded labor for dairy products and helped slaughter and process for beef, done the same for pork, lamb (sheep) and goats.
3..... was a general contractor for a few years when younger. So I have all the building skills, including plumbing, electrical, security systems, and a little bit of HVAC.
4.......learned a little bit can dehydrate stuff and do some basic canning, but need/want to learn a lot more.
5......older vehicles, farm equipment, mowers and small engines, yes....... newer vehicles like the wifes 04 grand cherokee just basic stuff like oil changes, tune-ups etc.
6......grew up hunting, still spend a fair amount of time shooting ( mostly at range) but living for now in city don't have much chance or place to hunt now, as well as a time factor.
7.... DO NOT do mushrooms with the exception of morels. There are to many look alikes for me to be sure, however I am somewhat well versed in some 200-300 medicinal and edible wild plants, and do forage as often as I can.
8......I think so, was trained as a sniper in the army, and am quite familiar with most world weapons today, AK's SKS's, mac's AR's long range weapons from 30.06's up to barrett .50's. as well as most wheel guns and semi auto's. However I would like to be better than I am I miss on occasion.
9..... I can but not as well as I wish I could, practice when I can. Still not very goor with flint/steel type fire starting.
10.... not as well anymore as I once could, eye's are not as good as they once were. So some topo maps are difficult to read.
As said before I'll add some more basics.
11.... Medical, EMT/ Paramedic trained
As these are IMHO the very basics. As said above one of the most important skills is " a boot's in the field" lifestlye and practice as often as you can.
crashdive123
01-14-2011, 03:32 PM
I got an offer for you crash and if you want to take it up you can. If you ever want some more of any of those 3 send the jar(s) back to me and tell me whichever you want another fill of and I will send it to you.
Woo Hoo! You bet! I'll throw in some Concret Block Honey when I do.
oldsoldier
01-14-2011, 03:36 PM
Realisim Rick!
A motel is not a BOL, it is a dream that can be crushed by turning on the "no vacancy" sign. How many motels does it take to house 7,000,000? How far do you go to find one not in the affected zone?
As soon as one reaches their BOL and realizes it is not vacant for use, is under armed guard, is contaminated or otherwise uninhabitable, they can not reach the target, the bridges are out or it is simply too dangerous to proceed, they have just joined the aimlessly wantering horde.
They are then subject to round-up and containment in a "shelter".
Everyone should wake up and realize that the proper term for people "bugging out" is REFUGEE!
In all things history sould be considered. In WW1 and WW2 the waring powers used the refugee to their advantage. A quick strike to get people bugging out, clogging the roads and restricting military traffic to slow response and channel flow of the armies. Then the sweep of a large mechinized force using the refugees as human cover for their advance. This process was developed as a purposeful stratigy by the Germans in WW2 and was a major tatic used by the Chineese in the Korean War. Refugees were used as a weapon.
There are still people alive today that are trying to recover their property and find their relitives lost in "bug outs" between 1937-1945. There are still families seperated by the 38th parallel in Korea.
and there are still a few poor souls stuck north of the Ohio River who never made it far enough south to reach the promied land!
Sorry kyra but I must disagree A motel IS a BOL. Not all situations is or will be a TEOTWAWKI. We have had to BO a few times due to accidents at a local rail yard, when it happened we went to a motel across town, so technically that was a bug out. just on a smaller scale.
Also not ALL people who bug out are refrugee's we have a well planned bug out plan, we have 4 different destinations in a major SHTF situation, Including a 70+ acre retraet we are working on a storage cache and a cabin to live in there. We also have family in other areas North, South and west in case we need to do so. We have several routes to GOOD when we have to.
JPGreco
01-14-2011, 03:47 PM
JP - While I understand your reasoning you should still have a BOL identified. It may be a relatives or even a hotel. It doesn't have to be a grassy meadow by a clean mountain lake. There are any number of scenarios in which you would HAVE to bug out. Staying simply isn't a choice. In those cases, you need to have somewhere identified or you will be wandering aimlessly without a plan.
Well, the conundrum I see is that for the most part, it is safer to stay put in most situations, for at least a while. The one exception (other than an absurdly large tsunami because I am more than a mile inland and up well above sea level) would be a nuclear attack in my area (most likely NYC). The tonage of the attack dictates what happens to my area (whether we can weather the fallout or not). However, fires, tsunami, non nuclear attacks, hurricane, etc, to evacuate is a HUGE problem. So I plan to stay where I am, for at least a while.
Now, to bug out after that time period, depending on the situation, my friends and family in my intended BOL may no longer be there themselves. If they had to move, then odds are locating them would prove very difficult or impossible (assuming telecommunications are down). If they are able to stay put I can weather the storm locally for a time before moving out. Even then though, that offers a lot of difficulties. The bridges may be down by the time it's safe to move out, which means I would require a boat to get out and one may be difficult to locate after any mass exodus.
In all honesty, I'd rather build a bunker, stock it properly, and hold my ground. If survival is the goal, then that would be my best chance in most situations.
I do appreciate your input, don't get me wrong. Just come try to drive out to my place or into the city during rush hour when less than half of the population is on the move and you'll see why fleeing is not a good option.
As for local small issues, chemicals are rarely if ever transported in my area (no large industrial areas in my area). So small emergencies where I need to relocate for a few hours or a couple of days are easily weathered since I have friends or family all over the island to ride out small issues with. Example being if something happened at the LIPA plant. If there was a fire there, they would probably evac the town. My fam and I would go to my aunt's two towns over. So I do have local BOL for minor issues, its just in a major incident, most of Long Island physically cannot get out. I mean we just got 18 inches of snow, but a day later, we're fine and we can get around.
I suppose everyone that bugs out because of a hurricane is a refugee? Fiddle faddle. The hotel was an example. You'll note I also mentioned relatives. What does he do if he's ordered to evacuate because of a hurricane? Or an earthquake? Or some other natural or man made event? I don't happen to believe in Armageddon. If you do, that's fine.
JPGreco
01-14-2011, 03:56 PM
Rick, I honestly would love to go talk to the emergency planners and ask them what situation would make them even consider ordering an evacuation of long island and how they would purpose to accomplish it in an amount of time that would get everyone out. It has to be their biggest nightmare.
crashdive123
01-14-2011, 04:09 PM
Rick, I honestly would love to go talk to the emergency planners and ask them what situation would make them even consider ordering an evacuation of long island and how they would purpose to accomplish it in an amount of time that would get everyone out. It has to be their biggest nightmare.
Here ya go.
http://www.nassaucountyny.gov/agencies/OEM/hurricane/prepare.html
http://www.liprepares.org/assets/guide/en_guide.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/oem/html/hazards/storms_hurricaneevac.shtml
Yes, sir. You can do that very thing. I encourage you to do it. Knowledge is power. Identifying all exit routes is another thing. Include all roads, railways, water and any other means you have access to. Holding a glowing green vial out in front of you and softly saying, "Back up, excuse me, don't get too close," might open some doors for you. :)
Sarge47
01-14-2011, 05:13 PM
I have a website that I run and we run off the idiots in a quick hurry. We do not have the biggest site of it's kind, but we do not have the intolerable idiots either.
We do that here as well...BTW, where'd you go....oh...sorry. :blush:
Alaskan Survivalist
01-14-2011, 05:52 PM
could large pvc pipe elbowed back and forth work?
Not exactly sure what you have in mind but it sounds possible. I was a plumbers helper and have done a lot of construction in Alaska but I think some of the fully qualified plumbers here could answer this question better. I just know the things I have done and have not tried that.
aflineman
01-14-2011, 06:53 PM
I figure that I will just keep having fun with my varied and eclectic experiences and interests. Something will come in handy at one time or another, at least until the unexpected shows up. Can't never plan for the unexpected, but I can have fun trying. :D
JPGreco
01-14-2011, 07:08 PM
Crash, a snow storm just paralized NYC not two weeks ago, you really think I trust the local government to plan and execute a timely and orderly evacuation of the 7 million people that live on long island AND possibly another 8 million that live in NYC? I've seen the government in action and the mob mentality of panicing people. I doubt they could do it.
Rick, there are about 8 bridges leading of Long Island, However, to use those to go west, they would funnel into 5 bridges. Rails follow bridges, so there are fewer rail lines off LI, but they all funnel into two major stations. Two major ferry lines (5 boats total) and then a bunch of small lines by the city. Its a logistic nightmare... lol
Glowing green vial seems like my best option right now. Throw in a lab coat and a fancy looking badge and I'm set.
crashdive123
01-14-2011, 07:12 PM
The links I posted were in response to your curiosity about the emergency planners. Who do you think developed, or at least approved those plans? I've spent a lot of time in our Emergency Operations Center - guess what - it's run by the government.
BENESSE
01-14-2011, 07:16 PM
JPG, I live in Manhattan and that might trump living on LI just a tad.
Believe me, I get it. Which is why I'm staying put unless that becomes impossible. That's what the BOB's for.
crashdive123
01-14-2011, 07:23 PM
The key, regardless of where you live IMO, is to have a plan. Each and every person needs to do their own individual threat assessment. From that assessment, they need to develop a plan that best fits their needs, abilities and situation. The plan I have now is far different than when I was living in Guam. In an area of higher congestion, your trigger for leaving in a slowly developing situation might be three days before me in my area. We're all going to (and should) react differently, but we have to start with a plan and then practice implementing that plan.
That was my point as well. I get bugging in. I'm in the same mind set. But if push comes to shove my plan does include a Bug Out possibility. It's not optimum for me but if I have to then I know what I'm going to do at least on paper.
Winter
01-15-2011, 03:05 PM
JP, have you considered a boat? for a little over a grand you can have a 16' oceangoing skiff.
JPGreco
01-15-2011, 04:27 PM
I don't have a grand to spend on a boat at this moment in time, or a truck to trailer it.
Alaskan Survivalist
01-15-2011, 04:53 PM
I don't have a grand to spend on a boat at this moment in time, or a truck to trailer it.
That's why I have a Zodiac.
JPGreco
01-15-2011, 04:57 PM
Not sure if it was your thread or someone elses. The ATV that can go in the water was awesome. I mean, even if I had a boat and truck and trailer, I'd be on foot once i hit connecticut and would have to jack a car or hitchhike to make any real distance.
Alaskan Survivalist
01-15-2011, 05:00 PM
Not sure if it was your thread or someone elses. The ATV that can go in the water was awesome. I mean, even if I had a boat and truck and trailer, I'd be on foot once i hit connecticut and would have to jack a car or hitchhike to make any real distance.
What about a folding bicycle? You are going to have to start thinking to find a way. Critical for survival.
You can even drive a car on railroad tracks. A car and a train are the same width. If you line a car up and let out some air from the tires they will cup the rails and off you go. We did it more than once in high school. Some of the best drinking places were where the cops couldn't get to. I never said I was bright as a kid.
BENESSE
01-15-2011, 05:26 PM
Not sure if it was your thread or someone elses. The ATV that can go in the water was awesome. I mean, even if I had a boat and truck and trailer, I'd be on foot once i hit connecticut and would have to jack a car or hitchhike to make any real distance.
If you haven't read "Patriots" by JW Rawls, you should. It'll get you focused on tangible things you could do NOW. I live in NYC and the book has made a difference in my approach to preps.
Winter
01-15-2011, 06:06 PM
Not sure if it was your thread or someone elses. The ATV that can go in the water was awesome. I mean, even if I had a boat and truck and trailer, I'd be on foot once i hit connecticut and would have to jack a car or hitchhike to make any real distance.
Why would you feel a need to go inland? The coast is the easiest place to survive. Beach hop till you find a suitable location.
There must be 100 harbors in long island to stage a boat.
Camp10
01-15-2011, 06:17 PM
That's why I have a Zodiac.
How do you winterize a Zodiac? It might be a dumb question but will storing them improperly deteriorate them?
dscrick
01-17-2011, 11:47 AM
This is why I don't bother with other forums
Because we're so darn good, handsome or friendly?
crashdive123
01-17-2011, 12:45 PM
Yes, yes, and yes.
dscrick
01-17-2011, 12:51 PM
I have doubts about the "Handsome" part, except for me:1eye:
crashdive123
01-17-2011, 12:57 PM
I have doubts about the "Handsome" part, except for me:1eye:
Well - Other than how they start out, that is one of the differences between a Sea Story and a Fairy Tail.:innocent:
dscrick
01-17-2011, 01:03 PM
It's simple. Sea stories start out with "There I was...", Fairy tales start out with "Once upon a time..."
dscrick
01-17-2011, 01:04 PM
Fairy tales also start out with "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help...."
Yeah, kinda like...
The underwater witness protection program.
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i24231
Or the fact that sea monsters sightings have been linked with the location of breweries. Who knew?
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s1i60786
crashdive123
01-17-2011, 01:59 PM
It's simple. Sea stories start out with "There I was...", Fairy tales start out with "Once upon a time..."
Fairy tales also start out with "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help...."
You Target Navy Guys had it a little different. For the Submarine Navy, fairy tails started out.....Once upon a time. Sea Stories started ou.....This is no sh**.:D
Tundrascout
01-17-2011, 10:04 PM
You can even drive a car on railroad tracks. A car and a train are the same width. If you line a car up and let out some air from the tires they will cup the rails and off you go...
Hadn't thought of that, thanks!
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0806/on-the-right-track-demotivational-poster-1213407556.jpg
Alaskan Survivalist
01-17-2011, 10:37 PM
How do you winterize a Zodiac? It might be a dumb question but will storing them improperly deteriorate them?
I keep mine indoors. Even a closet will store mine. Only takes about half an hour to assemble.
yellowcab
09-27-2025, 01:18 AM
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Orna (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1180900)Intr (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/624928)Eleg (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1182901)Osir (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1179654)Zone (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/608667)Rond (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/610854)Sela (http://keyserum.ru/t/1180688)ΠΠ΅Π»Ρ (http://kickplate.ru/t/882540)Gees (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1202664)Harl (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/781386)Harv (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/881665)Π²Π·ΡΠΎ (http://kinozones.ru/film/4053)Fide (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/681636)ΠΠΌΠΈΡ (http://kneejoint.ru/t/833533)Marg (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1246649)
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Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1191739)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1193164)2443 (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1183983)ΠΊΠ°ΡΠ° (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1184887)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1184811)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186248)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1188420)Zone (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1184574)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1186719)LAPI (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185047)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190850)ΡΠΊΡΠ° (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1858825)ΡΠΈΡΠΊ (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1827107)VM-0 (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1910)Elec (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/1030786)
yellowcab
09-27-2025, 01:19 AM
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Ρ
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yellowcab
12-10-2025, 01:09 AM
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yellowcab
12-10-2025, 01:10 AM
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ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://manualchoke.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://medinfobooks.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://mp3lists.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://nameresolution.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://naphtheneseries.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://narrowmouthed.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://nationalcensus.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://naturalfunctor.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://navelseed.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://neatplaster.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://necroticcaries.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://negativefibration.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://neighbouringrights.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://objectmodule.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://observationballoon.ru)
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ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://partfamily.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://partialmajorant.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://quadrupleworm.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://qualitybooster.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://quasimoney.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://quenchedspark.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://quodrecuperet.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://rabbetledge.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://radialchaser.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://radiationestimator.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://railwaybridge.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://randomcoloration.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://rapidgrowth.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
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ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://scarcecommodity.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://scrapermat.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://screwingunit.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://seawaterpump.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://secondaryblock.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://secularclergy.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://seismicefficiency.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://selectivediffuser.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://semifinishmachining.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://spicetrade.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://spysale.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://stungun.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)ΡΠ°ΠΉΡ (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
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yellowcab
05-20-2026, 01:41 PM
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habeascorpus (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar (http://handradar.ru)
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lambdatransition (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)
yellowcab
05-20-2026, 01:42 PM
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manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake (http://parkingbrake.ru)
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tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)
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