COMING SOON to a town near YOU.

[Sourdough]

Get ready........It is not if........ but when.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110108/ap_on_re_af/af_algeria_riots

When I went to town yesterday to buy Goose food it had gone from $14.90 per 50# up to $18.82 per 50# bag. that is in 60 days. Last summer it was $12.50 for a 50# bag. Sadly some geese must die. I figure the surest investment available right now is............buy groceries, lots & lots of groceries.

[klickitat]

That's just silly talk. Your #'s don't mean anything. Haven't you been told that the economy has been looking up?

[Camp10]

Sadly some geese must die.

At least you have a new problem solver to take care of that!:whistling:

[BENESSE]

Haven't you been told that the economy has been looking up?

That's exactly why he could afford to get a problem solver before he even had a problem. :balloon:

[klickitat]

That's exactly why he could afford to get a problem solver before he even had a problem. :balloon:

That is how your reasoning works? :chair:

[BENESSE]

It's just as good a reason as any. :whistling:

[Rick]

Yes he has been told that. I've told him that lots of times.

To quote from your post....."where housing shortages and poverty are endemic." You picked the wrong country. Algeria's rate of exchange is 73-1 and you'd have to go back to the mid '80s to find a time when it wasn't double digit. They've imported about 50% of their food for almost ever.

Prices rise. Like the sun and the moon. Prices rise.

[klickitat]

Prices rise. Like the sun and the moon. Prices rise.

so is that inflation, devaluation or a combination of the two?

[Rick]

It's called capitalism.

[mountain1]

we were in town last week for a few supply's and decided to pick up some feed for our meat birds. we had bought $200 worth of chicken feed (layer and meat) in the fall but the damn meat birds keep eating and eating (we like big roasters).
anyway, from october to jan. the feed had gone up almost 3 bucks per bag...
4 shall die tomarrow.

[klickitat]

It's called capitalism.

That might be the correct answer for another question, but not the one I asked. Care to give us the correct answer that you avoided giving? IF not I completely understand why you avoided it. :clown:

[crashdive123]

After the slaughter......

one surviving bird to another surviving bird:

Bird 1: Did you see that they killed four of the town folk today?

Bird 2: Sure did.

Bird 1: I heard tell it was because they were eating too much.

Bird 2: Yep. That's why I'm pecking at my food.

[Rick]

I don't have a dog in this fight. It is what ever you want it to be for whatever reason you choose.

[Sourdough]

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/01/7-reasons-food-shortages-will-become.html

[klickitat]

I don't have a dog in this fight. It is what ever you want it to be for whatever reason you choose.

Rick you jump on the Cool Aide side every time this topic comes up. You then say prices always rise. What causes prices to continually rise, especially when the angle of the curve increases?

[Sourdough]

It's called capitalism.


It will have a different title......if it becomes "personal".

[canid]

Get ready........It is not if........ but when.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110108/ap_on_re_af/af_algeria_riots

When I went to town yesterday to buy Goose food it had gone from $14.90 per 50# up to $18.82 per 50# bag. that is in 60 days. Last summer it was $12.50 for a 50# bag. Sadly some geese must die. I figure the surest investment available right now is............buy groceries, lots & lots of groceries.

every year i wait to see this happen over the last of whatever the hottest christmas gift of the year is. remember the tickle-me-elmo fights?

[crashdive123]

Rick you jump on the Cool Aide side every time this topic comes up. You then say prices always rise. What causes prices to continually rise, especially when the angle of the curve increases?

No need to get personal. Since you believe it's an issue (I do), what do you think is causing it, and what is your solution?

[mountain1]

After the slaughter......

one surviving bird to another surviving bird:

Bird 1: Did you see that they killed four of the town folk today?

Bird 2: Sure did.

Bird 1: I heard tell it was because they were eating too much.

Bird 2: Yep. That's why I'm pecking at my food.

poor little chickens:thumbup:

[klickitat]

No need to get personal. Since you believe it's an issue (I do), what do you think is causing it, and what is your solution?
Nothing personal about it, unless I some how offended the Cool Aide guy.

[mountain1]

this is why we hunt and raise our own food (as much as we can anyway). no?

[canid]

that's one of the reasons, as far as i'm concerned.

[crashdive123]

Nothing personal about it, unless I some how offended the Cool Aide guy.

Please realize that I'm only going to let you push so many buttons before I take away your keyboard and make you sit in the corner.

[Sourdough]

No need to get personal. Since you believe it's an issue (I do), what do you think is causing it, and what is your solution?


I now consider food both a safe investment & a hedge against inflation. If I knew I was going to live another 10 years, what would please me is to have 12 years of food on hand.

[SARKY]

I went to the store today for chicken breakfast saisage links for the wife. $3.69 a package last week $4.99 this week! That is almost a 30% increase!

[crashdive123]

I now consider food both a safe investment & a hedge against inflation. If I knew I was going to live another 10 years, what would please me is to have 12 years of food on hand.

I have believed for some time now that because of a lot of factors we will see some steep inflation and devaluation of the dollar. I hope I'm wrong and that it never happens, but my hedge has been food and other consumables. The last two months out of work have put a crimp in my plan, but baby steps are better than no steps. If I'm wrong, and I hope I am, then I'll have a good sized stockpile of things that I will eventually use anyway.

[crashdive123]

Sarky - do you have a Commissary in your area? Big difference in grocery prices (at least around here).

[mountain1]

we always keep plenty of staples around: 50# bags of flour,sugar,oats,beans, and rice. 5 gal. of honey. with pounds and pounds of home canned goods. along with chickens which provide eggs and meat as well as our 420# pig we butchered in Nov.. plus plenty of wild game around.
i believe everyone should be prepared and have extra food on hand at all times.
we could hole up here for a long time if we had to.

[klickitat]

Prices rise. Like the sun and the moon. Prices rise.

Crash spanked me so I will try to ask like this again.

I would like you opinion kind sir. You keep saying the economy is picking up and it is as it has always been.

So is that inflation, devaluation or a combination of the two?

Thank you for your time and years of wisdom.

[NotSoOldCrone]

Get ready........It is not if........ but when.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110108/ap_on_re_af/af_algeria_riots

When I went to town yesterday to buy Goose food it had gone from $14.90 per 50# up to $18.82 per 50# bag. that is in 60 days. Last summer it was $12.50 for a 50# bag. Sadly some geese must die. I figure the surest investment available right now is............buy groceries, lots & lots of groceries.

Because of a concern for rising food prices (rising EVERYTHING prices) I had been looking into homesteading for a while- but the cost of land was just unrealistic for me- and probably will be for a while. I was at the bookstore yesterday and ran across Backyard Homesteading (Carleen Madigan)- Produce a year's worth of food for a family on a 1/4 acre. I skimmed it. I think I'll pick it up soon. It's 19.95 at the store but 8.95 on Kindle. (I think that's the type of book I want on PAPER though).

Anyhoo- anyone else read it and found it useful?

[canid]

I haven't read it. I know first hand that you can get a heck of a lot done on 1/4 acer, or even less, but it's a serious commitment to try to keep it going full scale, full time.

nothing at all wrong with that if you're up to it, but even partial measures help a lot.

[rebel]

I can't wait to see the grocery bill and, every thing else, when gas prices increase this summer as predicted.

[Rick]

Okay, Klick, if you insist.

It's neither. Inflation and deflation are the result, not the cause. You can not have inflation, for example, without a rise in prices. You can certainly have a rise in prices without inflation, however. And that's exactly what occurred in 2010. From a high of 2.6% in January to 1.14% in November.

So the question is really what drives price increases. I don't think I have to explain an increase in grain seed prices, land taxes, fuel prices or chemical prices to drive the farmer's costs higher. I don't think I have to explain the increase in commercial taxes, salaries, electricity, insurance or transportation costs to drive the price the grain elevators charge, add in the bakery and the store and you have an increase in prices.

I don't have to explain any of that because you really don't care about the question as much as you care about taunting me. As I said, I don't have a dog in this fight, however.

[2dumb2kwit]

Okay, Klick, if you insist.

It's neither. Inflation and deflation are the result, not the cause. You can not have inflation, for example, without a rise in prices. You can certainly have a rise in prices without inflation, however. And that's exactly what occurred in 2010. From a high of 2.6% in January to 1.14% in November.

So the question is really what drives price increases. I don't think I have to explain an increase in grain seed prices, land taxes, fuel prices or chemical prices to drive the farmer's costs higher. I don't think I have to explain the increase in commercial taxes, salaries, electricity, insurance or transportation costs to drive the price the grain elevators charge, add in the bakery and the store and you have an increase in prices.

I don't have to explain any of that because you really don't care about the question as much as you care about taunting me. As I said, I don't have a dog in this fight, however.


Maybe it's because deep down, he really likes you.

Maybe he really likes you because he saw that picture of you in a thong.:rolleyes: LOL

[Rick]

I'm one of the very few on here that talk about the economy getting better. I talk about it because I truly believe it and the numbers show it. But more importantly, there are so many doom and gloomers on here that the folks who have little understanding about economics would be inundated with their brand of bad news. Before long, even those that don't understand would be pushed into that camp. I try to hold up the lantern so they can see another camp even exists.

I would be far less concerned if those that profess doom and gloom could actually point to some numbers that support their position but their rebuttal is always, "You have eyes, you can see it." They don't trust "them" whoever "they" are. And the numbers are a conspiracy of some type. It's pretty hard to logically debate a subject when one side uses intangibles to support their position.

[2dumb2kwit]

I'm one of the very few on here that talk about the economy getting better. I talk about it because I truly believe it and the numbers show it. But more importantly, there are so many doom and gloomers on here that the folks who have little understanding about economics would be inundated with their brand of bad news. Before long, even those that don't understand would be pushed into that camp. I try to hold up the lantern so they can see another camp even exists.

I would be far less concerned if those that profess doom and gloom could actually point to some numbers that support their position but their rebuttal is always, "You have eyes, you can see it." They don't trust "them" whoever "they" are. And the numbers are a conspiracy of some type. It's pretty hard to logically debate a subject when one side uses intangibles to support their position.

Sooooo, you don't think it's the thong pic?:mellow: LOL

[kyratshooter]

Yes Rick, things are peachy.

Prices are going up, "as they always have".

My pay has stopped going up, unemployment is still 9.5% on the fake number scale, and we are only in year 2 of the "New Carter Administration". We still have the double didgit inflation and double number interest rates to look foreward to.

I have seen this run up before, and those of us that are over 50 have seen it too. The history is there, so are the numbers that back it.

Minor price increases are normal. what we are dealing with suddenly is 30%-50% increases in less than a quarter. That is not normal 1%-4% inflation, matched by normal cost of living raises. I have not had a COL in 2 years and do not look for one in the near furure.

[Rick]

That's a perfect post of what I'm talking about. Support your position. All you're doing is tossing out your opinion.

Who says you deserve a COL? I don't get one and I'm retired. Just not on SS. So you must be better off than me if you get COLs.

We've just gone through the biggest debt bubble in the history of the U.S. Housing foreclosures have been at an all time high and the resulting layoffs in the housing industry didn't ripple but ran rough shod through the economy. Folks could no longer afford to buy anything. Since sales disappeared what do you think happened to prices? Those selling products have to survive. If they can't do it with volume then they do it with price. Think it through instead of trying to minimize my post by using words like "peachy".

And you might take a look at that unemployment rate. It has begun a year long gradual decline throughout 2010 after a year long gradual increase in 2009.

Here's my source. Where's yours?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Unemployment-Rate.aspx?Symbol=USD

[Justin Case]

oh those numbers are "Fake" Rick,,,, lol

[2dumb2kwit]

Rick, I understand what you're saying, but you have to understand that what you are doing is kinda like trying to convince someone that global warming exist....while he's freezing to death in a blizzard.

You can show him all the info you want, but it's hard to overcome the cold that he's feeling.

[LowKey]

The cost of all grain products and subsequently meat products went up when someone figured out they could cut gasoline with alcohol. It's been a steady trend the last several years. Beef prices here have gone up I'd say just about 30% based on just observation at the bulk store I buy it at.

I don't know about summer gas prices, but in the last four or five weeks, gas here has gone from $2.85 up to $3.19 (regular) and hasn't stopped yet. That usually doesn't happen around Christmas. Diesel fuel is well over $3.35. That has to do something to the cost of delivering those goods.

On the other hand, we've seen an upswing in business at work and in general, at least in the Northeast/Upper East coast corridor.

I stock up when things are on sale. Especially staples. Flour and Sugar prices go all over the place. But no one here needs to hear that from me. You all do it too.

On some things prices have stayed fairly stable and I'm noticing it is locally produced stuff. Things like milk and local breads are all the same price they were the last two years.

I'm not going to say the economy is rosy, peachy or whatever. But I'm also not going to say the sky is falling when I can see some reason for why prices are the way the are.

Just stay vigilant and be prepared.
You can have it both ways. :)

2D, they've started calling it Climate Change now. LOL.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

I have no doubt prices are going up. We use some Kerosene to heat with. In just a few weeks prices went from $2.70/Gal. to $3.39/Gal. We went from paying $12 to fill up to paying $15 to almost filling up a 5 gallon can. (Using Kerosene as an example, because some may not buy it) We all know about the food and gas prices. We all know about the associated prices of these affecting other products. However peoples salaries are not rising on an equal basis with prices, so in effect, we are ALL "Poorer" now than we were just a year ago. Our money from a weeks salary do not buy an equal amount of goods compared to a year ago.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Average+rise+of+prices+for+2010

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Average+rise+of+salaries+for+2010

Just from a quick glance at these 2 searches.... prices are rising 2% more than salaries.

Might not sound like much... unless you are on a tight budget already. 2% less than a year ago means 2 gallons of kerosene less every time I get paid, compared to last year. Now take into account that everything else has also risen in price compared to a year ago (My money has NOT risen at all).This means less of EVERYTHING coming into my house, compared to a year ago.

Remember the Farm we WERE buying? Well we aren't buying it now... Why? Even though we paid on time , never late, the bank decided we were a "Poor risk" afraid we would just quit paying and leave. So while we were at the Jamboree, they sold it out from under us. What we were buying we are now renting. They FORCED The owner we were buying it from, to sell it or else. Fortunately we can still live here, The new owner is a Neighbor who wanted the land......

So, while The "Numbers" may show things improving, My EXPERIENCE shows the opposite as being true. Or as it is fond of saying here on the Forum.... "Boots in the Field Baby, Boots in the field".

[LowKey]

Poco, that sucks.
They sold it without notice?
I'd be pissed as all hell.
Did you have a lawyer look at your purchase agreement?

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Poco, that sucks.
They sold it without notice?
I'd be pissed as all hell.
Did you have a lawyer look at your purchase agreement?

Yep, no notice as we were buying it from the owner who had the mortgage. Apparently upon "Review" the bank decided that they had made an "Error" in the length of that mortgage and it was not supposed to have been as long term as it was. The only option was to pay 3 times what we were paying. Even if we had been here we couldn't have done that. The Bank did it out of "Fear" that they would lose. Nothing could be done when it had already exchanged hands. I am somewhat suspicious of the circumstances as well. The New owner is also "Politically connected". His Daughter is the New County Clerk. Also the Timing of the forced sale was while we were gone. There were only 2 people who knew we would be gone.... the new and old owners of this property. Nothing we can do either.

[Rick]

2D - I didn't say the world is peachy. That's what I got accused of saying. It's still bad, no doubt about it. All I've said is that things have started in the right direction. All I've challenged folks to do is look at the numbers for themselves. It's really nothing like climate change but I understand what you are saying. You can't point to numbers on climate change. You can easily point to numbers on economics.

Lowkey - That was a very good post. +1 from me.

Poco - It sounds like the former owner might have been in foreclosure and didn't bother to tell you. That's pretty common. More than one renter has been put on the street because the place they were renting or "buying" was foreclosed without them knowing it. The next thing they know is the sheriff is there and moving their stuff out.

[crashdive123]

Did you have a sale contract?

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Did you have a sale contract?

Only a hand written one, and a "Gentleman's agreement". The Contract does not meet "Legal Requirements" or some such bull.

[Ken]

Yep, no notice as we were buying it from the owner who had the mortgage. Apparently upon "Review" the bank decided that they had made an "Error" in the length of that mortgage and it was not supposed to have been as long term as it was. The only option was to pay 3 times what we were paying. Even if we had been here we couldn't have done that. The Bank did it out of "Fear" that they would lose. Nothing could be done when it had already exchanged hands. I am somewhat suspicious of the circumstances as well. The New owner is also "Politically connected". His Daughter is the New County Clerk. Also the Timing of the forced sale was while we were gone. There were only 2 people who knew we would be gone.... the new and old owners of this property. Nothing we can do either.

Poco, talk to a lawyer. Talk to a real good lawyer.

Did you make any improvements to the place? Make a complete list of every expenditure you made. I'll betcha' that you're entitled to something somehow.

Look at the bank, the seller, and the buyer. There are several legal theories in play here. The bank probably violated several banking/consumer laws and/or regulations. The buyer may have engaged in tortious interference with your interests. The seller may have comitted a breach of contract. There is the possibility of "unjust enrichment." "fraud," and "misrepresentation."

TALK TO A LAWYER!!!!

[2dumb2kwit]

2D - I didn't say the world is peachy. That's what I got accused of saying. It's still bad, no doubt about it. All I've said is that things have started in the right direction. All I've challenged folks to do is look at the numbers for themselves. It's really nothing like climate change but I understand what you are saying. You can't point to numbers on climate change. You can easily point to numbers on economics.

Lowkey - That was a very good post. +1 from me.

Poco - It sounds like the former owner might have been in foreclosure and didn't bother to tell you. That's pretty common. More than one renter has been put on the street because the place they were renting or "buying" was foreclosed without them knowing it. The next thing they know is the sheriff is there and moving their stuff out.

Rick, I'm pretty much on the same page, with you. My point was just that the big picture and the close-up may look very different.

[Rick]

I agree and that's part of the problem. It's pretty easy to look at your wallet, discern that it's empty and proclaim the end of the world. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other; personal SHTF aside. Folks need to take a step back and look at the overall picture and take a bit of personal accountability instead of blaming the ills of life on whoever "they" are.

[randyt]

for whats it's worth the economy has been better here in the tip of the mitt. 2009 sucked big time. Folks was more willing to spend in 2010, that made our business, busier. Expenses were easier to pay, there was a little dab left over for improvements too. It wasn't great but it was better.

I'm old enough to see a pattern emerge, not as old as some but not a kid either. I've noticed when the economy dumps survivalism becomes very popular. when the economy improves survivalism becomes less popular. It seems to me.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Poco, talk to a lawyer. Talk to a real good lawyer.
TALK TO A LAWYER!!!!
Ken, I couldn't get a lawyer to see me or return my visits/calls when I had a clear cut and obvious case of discrimination. I don't think there are any good lawyers in this state. If there are, they don't live anywhere's around me. Now if I had broke a law, there would be plenty to choose from.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Getting back to the topic.... I know that feed prices rose partly because grain prices were better for corn sold to manufacturers of ethanol, Than for consumption. So Farmers sold to the better price. This drove feed prices up as well. Might have something to do with it, might not. Horse feed only has a small amount of corn in it, but prices went up quite a bit for horse feed. I think that first year, prices went up almost $2/50 lb bag although there was only perhaps 2 double handfuls of cracked corn in it.

People around here seem to prefer "textured" feed (Where you can see all the ingredients in it) opposed to "Pelleted" feed. One guy I know sent off a sample of each to be tested and said that the textured was actually "Better" feed as what was used in the pelleted was termed "Sweepings"(what was swept up from the floor) and had impurities in it. Can't say for other types of feed though, as all I have (now) are horses. We gave away 2 horses(to insure they had good homes) this year.

[crashdive123]

Poco - In addition to corn prices rising because we are putting food in our gas tanks, some farmers are replacing other crops (partially, if not completely) and growing more corn to garner the higher price. Since some of the other crops are now being grown in smaller quantities (there is less available) and demand hasn't changed, prices go up on everything thst is still in demand.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Poco - In addition to corn prices rising because we are putting food in our gas tanks, some farmers are replacing other crops (partially, if not completely) and growing more corn to garner the higher price. Since some of the other crops are now being grown in smaller quantities (there is less available) and demand hasn't changed, prices go up on everything thst is still in demand.

EXACTLY! So less food being produced means more demand,less supply. Just the corn alone means MANY things increase in price too... look at the ingredients of some of the foods we buy and look for CORN syrup, CORN starch, CORN meal, etc.... Corn Syrup is used in a lot of soft drinks.

I can't blame the farmers for trying to get the most money from their crops either. But I just don't get using Food to power vehicles instead of living breathing things.

I REALLY wish they would develop an electric car that could run off of solar, wind(Like your radiator fan), AND Friction generators.... Like the old generators used to power bicycle headlamps. Maybe I just don't understand all that is involved there to make that come true. Maybe then our food could be used for food instead of fuel, AND pollution would drop too.

[klickitat]

Okay, Klick, if you insist.

It's neither. Inflation and deflation are the result, not the cause. You can not have inflation, for example, without a rise in prices. You can certainly have a rise in prices without inflation, however. And that's exactly what occurred in 2010. From a high of 2.6% in January to 1.14% in November.

So the question is really what drives price increases. I don't think I have to explain an increase in grain seed prices, land taxes, fuel prices or chemical prices to drive the farmer's costs higher. I don't think I have to explain the increase in commercial taxes, salaries, electricity, insurance or transportation costs to drive the price the grain elevators charge, add in the bakery and the store and you have an increase in prices.

I don't have to explain any of that because you really don't care about the question as much as you care about taunting me. As I said, I don't have a dog in this fight, however.

I do care about the answer and the question. In the past I assumed (my fault) by the way you talked and alluded that you knew something about the topic. BTW I now understand why you did not want to answer. I honestly will never ask you about anything to do with economics.

[klickitat]

In the last 12 months, Commodity prices on average straight across the board have gone up 22.5 %. Now if that does not scare you, then you do not have a basic understanding of economics.

[Justin Case]

In the last 12 months, Commodity prices on average straight across the board have gone up 22.5 %. Now if that does not scare you, then you do not have a basic understanding of economics.

YOU are the one who cannot post sources ,,,, where do you get your info ?

[Rick]

Look, you've come at me a couple of times on this whole inflation/deflation subject. If I mistook you intentions, I apologize. Whether you think I have a grasp of economics is of little concern to me. I know my credentials and experience and I'm not here to display them for anyone. If you have a different idea on prices then by all means explain it. It's one thing to discourse and debate about a subject and quite something else to insult.

[Sourdough]

My stupid opinion is that the Capitalist System as we know it, is over. Over the next 10 or 20 years life for Mankind will become "Horrific". It will not happen quickly, but a slow (However accelerating) deterioration. Till most of the world looks the movie "Black Hawk Down". Everyone is not going to die, but I think 1.2 up to 1.6 Billion humans will die. We are entering a period like the great bubonic plague. The earth has a cancer, and that cancer is humans. Just my opinion.

[Sourdough]

YOU are the one who cannot post sources ,,,, where do you get your info ?



Loiter around here one a week. http://www.shadowstats.com/

[Rick]

SD - Thank you. First, you opinion is as valid as the next. Second, I've never run across this site before. I will spend some time on it.

[Sourdough]

Here is the statistic I care about. We had zero inflation, so I get NO adjustment to my Social Security Insurance, that I payed into for 54 years. Zero inflation, right.

[Rick]

I get you. Of course you do draw social security. You just don't get a raise. The problem with a Cost of Living Allowance is if you have 0 inflation (or negative as was the case for several months) then you don't get an increase. The whole purpose is to keep up with inflation. If COLAs worked by definition they would have REDUCED your SS in the months there was negative inflation. I don't like COLAs for the reason you just stated.

[Rick]

Aaaarggh. That site requires a membership. I hate that! Here's my bit of paranoia. I don't often trust folks that make you pay to read their opinion. Something wrong in that philosophy to me. I'll trudge on, however.

[Sourdough]

Aaaarggh. That site requires a membership. I hate that! Here's my bit of paranoia. I don't often trust folks that make you pay to read their opinion. Something wrong in that philosophy to me. I'll trudge on, however.

It is not an opinion site. His clients are corporations, he has a lot of respect in the business world. I'll find you another way to get the information.

[Rick]

Okay, opinion is probably a misnomer. I can read his graphs just not his articles. They require a subscription. He does have a valid argument on unemployment, I think. The exclusion of discouraged workers from the database doesn't paid a true picture of unemployment. It paints a rosier picture than including them would show. That was politically driven in my opinion.

[Sourdough]

Okay, opinion is probably a misnomer. I can read his graphs just not his articles. They require a subscription. He does have a valid argument on unemployment, I think. The exclusion of discouraged workers from the database doesn't paid a true picture of unemployment. It paints a rosier picture than including them would show. That was politically driven in my opinion.

He has a company that does a lot of research, much like "Case-Shiller" does on real estate. He really does not spin left or right, he just reports the data.

[Rick]

Yeah, I've seen some of the other graphs. It looks like he has continued to report under the old indices rather than the government's newer ones, which he runs side by side. I do like that. If you look closely, you'll see that they are statistically equivalent. In other words, a 10% rise in the data is reflected in both sets of numbers (his and the gov'ts). Where those plot lines fall is a big difference but the increase or decrease is the same.

[Winter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_XOSE2AqSE&feature=&p=7E1C99233117E780&index=0&playnext=1

Beans and bullets.

[Sourdough]

Winter, I think you live in one of the few abundant (as in food/water/wood for heat & structure) places on earth to ride out the next 30 years.

[Winter]

I do, but, I'm really gonna miss the comforts I grew up with.

We have no shortage of "Zombies" either.


ETA- I don't intend on "riding out" anything. I intend a campaign of aggressive re-Americanization of the community.

[Rick]

But that really isn't beans and bullets. The title implies to me they were fighting over food and that wasn't the case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/business/29walmart.html

[kyratshooter]

That's a perfect post of what I'm talking about. Support your position. All you're doing is tossing out your opinion.

Who says you deserve a COL? I don't get one and I'm retired. Just not on SS. So you must be better off than me if you get COLs.

We've just gone through the biggest debt bubble in the history of the U.S. Housing foreclosures have been at an all time high and the resulting layoffs in the housing industry didn't ripple but ran rough shod through the economy. Folks could no longer afford to buy anything. Since sales disappeared what do you think happened to prices? Those selling products have to survive. If they can't do it with volume then they do it with price. Think it through instead of trying to minimize my post by using words like "peachy".

And you might take a look at that unemployment rate. It has begun a year long gradual decline throughout 2010 after a year long gradual increase in 2009.

Here's my source. Where's yours?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Unemployment-Rate.aspx?Symbol=USD

Rick my source is my grocery bill, my electric bill, my water bill, my fuel costs and the meat and veggies I can no longer afford to buy at the grocery. The source for my lack of income is the Social Security check that has not increased for two years and the U.S. government promise that it will not increase for another two.

Unemployment numbers are down due to the withdrawal of thousands from the job market as reported by every cable and national news source as well as the Wall Street Journal. They have given up on finding a job and are no longer looking!

I am really glad you are feeling better about things, apparently the meds have kicked in, because the economy has not.

:knight:

[Rick]

Take the time to look at the numbers. Discouraged workers have not been in there for years. If you actually took the time to do some research instead of just spouting insults I might be able to take you seriously.

Folks, do you understand the difference between discussion and insulting? That's twice today that folks have been 1. unable or unwilling to support their position so they just insult me. and 2. they have been unable to control their emotions long enough to have a serious conversation. You can't call yourself a survivor if you can't make it through the challenge of a post.

I don't care if you believe something different than me. That's great. Educate me. Show me why I'm wrong. I'd love to learn. But don't just sit there and mock me and insult me because you disagree.

[Justin Case]

ok,, This,,

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2011/01/05/puget-sound-area-home-sales-increase.html

and This,,,,

http://www.myfoxla.com/dpps/news/data-indicates-job-offers-up-as-economy-improves-dpgonc-20101224-gc_11203721

and this,,,,,,,,


The income tax package negotiated by President Barack Obama and Congress resulted in an unexpected surprise for taxpayers.

For this year only, Americans will see bigger paychecks, thanks to a 2-percentage-point cut in their portion of the payroll tax for Social Security.



That means individuals could end up with a payroll tax savings of up to $2,136 in 2011, according to CCH, a tax information provider. Households with two wage earners who both make more than $106,800 will get $4,272, double the amount for individuals.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/DN-perfi_08bus.ART.State.Edition1.7dca6a.html


These are Sources !

[Winter]

But that really isn't beans and bullets. The title implies to me they were fighting over food and that wasn't the case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/business/29walmart.html
Rick, it's a mindset more then a need. People believe they are entitled to something. Whether that "something" is food or keeping up with the Jones'.

People deserve nothing. If a human is lucky enough to receive the first breath out of the womb; they best be ready to fight for every additional breath.

I always hear people who have done nothing in their lives rant about the respect they deserve. I ask them what they have done to deserve respect.

The reply is always "I'm a human being and all human beings deserve respect."

Well, I vehemently disagree with that statement. My Pug "Tank" is a better human being than most actual humans and thus gets more respect from me than I give to the oxygen thieves.

[Justin Case]

vehemently .
Ok, had to look that up !! I hate big words ! :)

[Rick]

Winter +1.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

I think it amazing that sources are posted at all. Especially when no one takes into account that they have a "slant" or vested interest to show certain figures. For example JIC's second source said this.....

big US companies are beginning to advertise thousands of job openings in retailing, accounting, consulting, health care, telecommunications and defense-related industries, according to data published Friday by The Wall Street Journal. Now the Wall Street Journals readers are (I believe) mostly people with a College degree. Of the jobs that were listed only one would not necessarily require a degree (depending on the level of employment). That being Retailing. Now while this is all well and good for those with a degree, I believe that most workers in the work force do not have a degree. This is just one way that(again I believe) they get your hopes up without being totally honest about the position. Not many factory workers read the WSJ.

They also make assumption (not predictions)....

While some big companies are expanding, others are merely replacing workers who are retiring or otherwise moving on. And many of the available jobs require experience and technical expertise that few job seekers can muster. Jobs that do not are still seeing a flood of applicants for each opening.

New claims for unemployment benefits fell just 3,000 last week to 420,000, indicating a slight slowing of job losses. A Wall Street Journal survey of 55 economists in early December showed they expect only moderate job growth in 2011, enough to reduce the unemployment rate to a still-high nine percent at the end of 2011 from 9.8 percent last month.

But companies are racking up profits and now have built strong cash positions, and may be ready to hire again.
So while the future job market may look "Rosy" for some... For the vast majority it does not. This taken from the same source.....
http://www.myfoxla.com/dpps/news/data-indicates-job-offers-up-as-economy-improves-dpgonc-20101224-gc_11203721

Sorry but if you read the WHOLE thing carefully it does not look good for the vast majority of unemployed persons.

[Winter]

Our total loss of manufacturing capabilities and the inherent jobs manufacturing provides is gonna be impossible to offset, IMO.

ETA- Our independence is also severely reduced as a result.

[Rick]

If the majority of WSJ readers are white color then how does the article get blue color hopes up since they won't be reading it anyway? You do have to read through the articles and understand what they are saying. Why would the WSJ have an invested interest to post false data?

[Rick]

Well, we've been a service economy for two decades. Manufacturing went oversees a long time ago. So those jobs weren't there prior to the down turn.

[Justin Case]

Well, we've been a service economy for two decades. Manufacturing went oversees a long time ago. So those jobs weren't there prior to the down turn.

good point right there !

[Winter]

I agree Rick. Sometimes it takes awhile to feel the effects.

It became cheaper to produce things elsewhere. It is now cheaper to provide customer service from foreign countries.


Why would the WSJ have an invested interest to post false data?

Really? Hahaha

I bet you can think of 3 reasons in as many minutes.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

If the majority of WSJ readers are white collar then how does the article get blue collar hopes up since they won't be reading it anyway? You do have to read through the articles and understand what they are saying. Why would the WSJ have an invested interest to post false data?

You misunderstand Rick. The WSJ's "Public" is the upper echelon of the work force. So the news is slanted with an interest in what they would find "of interest". Yet all the reporting agencies ALSO take what they say as "Gospel" as they are also interested in what the WSJ has to say. (Again they have the same type of jobs)

They reported that NEW claims had dropped.... big deal, I am more concerned with EXISTING claims PLUS new claims..... This is misleading only reporting the "New" claims in unemployment. Include ALL the information, not just part of it. This also does NOT take into consideration those whose unemployment has expired and can no longer claim those benefits. So we are all looking at half-truths and taking them as the "Gospel truth". Defective misleading journalism at it's finest. They are telling you what you want to hear, NOT presenting the ACTUAL unemployment situation.

[Rick]

Almost all of North America and, surprisingly, Central America are service economies. I know we've lost a lot of manufacturing to Mexico but that's not it's primary source of employment.

On the WSJ comment, my point is that soooo many people track the data. They would know in a heartbeat if the WSJ were posting something that wasn't true.

[Rick]

First, it was a Fox News article. It wasn't about unemployment numbers. It was about new jobs based on a survey of internet job openings. They just used new claims as a reference point. There was nothing misleading about it.

[Winter]

The WSJ guides the market to some extent. Them posting "good news" supports their interests.

I think the WSJ is told what to report (tin foil warning) by George Soros types any damn way.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

First, it was a Fox News article. It wasn't about unemployment numbers. It was about new jobs based on a survey of internet job openings. They just used new claims as a reference point. There was nothing misleading about it.
Yes it was about
data-indicates-job-offers-up-as-economy-improves
Still WSJ was quoted. Which I included that quote. FOX like WSJ is considered a "Conservative" news source (Without getting too political) Which generally tends to be on the side of "Business". I am sure other news agencies of the opposite side also use such quotes to further their position. THIS is my point. Selective analysis or quotation to further an ideal or point.
This same discussion could be about Gun control, survival knife, 9MM vs. .45 cal., best place to eat...... the "sources" all have their particular point of view. I believe SD Showed you a site that their graphs disputed MOST of what we are told "Economically". Same principle here. Sources can be misleading due to partial truths represented.
Regardless of these, none of us know or will know the actual truth. Sources are not always totally forthcoming and even disagree amongst a particular "Side". Unless it is something that we can reproduce ourselves, it is all suspect. Some sources are obviously "Out there", some are subtle, some are very hard to discern anything about whatsoever. It all comes down to "Faith". How much we are willing to believe that what we are being told is the actual truth. Sorry but my "Faith" in these has been shaken too many times.

[Rick]

I can't argue with that. I could...no I can't. Where is Spock when I need him?

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heavydutymetalcutting.ru (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall.ru (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment.ru (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress.ru (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule.ru (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels.ru (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease.ru (http://kaposidisease.ru)
keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

толь (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/4924)160 (http://cottagenet.ru)чита (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/140)Repr (http://eyesvisions.com)Kobo (http://factoringfee.ru/t/294864)Ossi (http://filmzones.ru/t/129560)Лифа (http://gadwall.ru/t/129843)Marg (http://gaffertape.ru/t/326914)Fran (http://gageboard.ru/t/295165)Micr (http://gagrule.ru/t/58053)Служ (http://gallduct.ru/t/168271)Сред (http://galvanometric.ru/t/158644)�рти (http://gangforeman.ru/t/109676)Atla (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/140146)Buca (http://garbagechute.ru/t/667973)
цвет (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/136145)scre (http://gascautery.ru/t/181241)Rond (http://gashbucket.ru/t/96335)вепа (http://gasreturn.ru/t/247530)XVII (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/284891)Шала (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/661176)Kons (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/659238)Tefa (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/396038)Niko (http://geartreating.ru/t/565593)Вьет (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/293177)Herd (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/449296)Anka (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/558317)�ерт (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/137628)реда (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/138244)Kiri (http://getthebounce.ru/t/137298)
Коро (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/296636)Гони (http://habituate.ru/t/478631)Bene (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/70019)Tech (http://hackworker.ru/t/470400)Chie (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/554164)пере (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/477680)Taft (http://hailsquall.ru/t/109543)Brau (http://hairysphere.ru/t/97376)проз (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/301218)Clea (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/561279)о�но (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/293714)XVII (http://haltstate.ru/t/297607)рома (http://handcoding.ru/t/295907)Pete (http://handportedhead.ru/t/541793)Дуди (http://handradar.ru/t/300169)
Dent (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/136902)Scha (http://hangonpart.ru/t/16737)Road (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/167902)Panz (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/162702)Vulp (http://hardasiron.ru/t/111018)Erne (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/278778)XVII (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/265931)Copp (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/139996)Баут (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/156674)пого (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/155445)Valk (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/110107)файл (http://headregulator.ru/t/155301)SeaW (http://heartofgold.ru/t/156365)Benn (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/128810)Cath (http://heatinggas.ru/t/262059)
Окор (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/297535)Jose (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/253556)Гриш (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/297158)�бор (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/300601)(192 (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/297358)худо (http://jobstress.ru/t/299101)ФМДо (http://jogformation.ru/t/368268)Edit (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/546028)Amig (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/538854)Jewe (http://journallubricator.ru/t/140530)веще (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/140578)Szep (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/277266)Arth (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/231172)иллю (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/293656)Leos (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/253868)
Stob (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/265358)Susa (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/257415)This (http://kentishglory.ru/t/265088)Ospr (http://kerbweight.ru/t/180436)Daph (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/294229)Icon (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/163557)FIFA (http://keyserum.ru/t/164010)комп (http://kickplate.ru/t/156454)мен� (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/568538)Spoi (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/252878)Emil (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/291963)Санк (http://kinozones.ru/film/4924)Arts (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/601709)Дагд (http://kneejoint.ru/t/284554)Жуко (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/284059)
Soni (http://knockonatom.ru/t/164414)�каз (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/505323)зака (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/156704)Томи (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/487839)зака (http://laborracket.ru/t/156743)Zone (http://labourearnings.ru/t/157586)diam (http://labourleasing.ru/t/173547)Kath (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/326497)Defo (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/292131)одна (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/298609)Loui (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/292085)Etga (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/81196)Само (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/68932)Знам (http://laggingload.ru/t/80415)MAGI (http://laissezaller.ru/t/77775)
GooN (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/67053)Expe (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/55523)Капи (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/178988)Ruth (http://lamphouse.ru/t/197465)Хатр (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/79653)Norm (http://lancingdie.ru/t/67396)Symp (http://landingdoor.ru/t/132626)Evil (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/167886)Конд (http://landreform.ru/t/248728)Gard (http://landuseratio.ru/t/166421)Ð*жев (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/191889)фарф (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161059)атмо (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/590278)Tani (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/628)прои (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590430)

[yellowcab]

Bill (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1031165)Прои (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/451819)Nard (http://layabout.ru/shop/452420)Digi (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/181060)Ð*ого (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/105699)Deut (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/465005)Vlad (http://leaveword.ru/shop/465024)Wild (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/194445)Ð�рти (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/557817)плаÑ� (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/195485)ster (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/268106)Powe (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/270531)Wind (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/349974)STAR (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/160090)NISS (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613844)
Drea (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598300)вузо (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1566)Medi (http://mp3lists.ru/item/4924)Alab (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/575414)Холо (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/105005)Faun (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/461297)отли (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/501511)�тил (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/319887)ин�т (http://navelseed.ru/shop/101184)карт (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/454945)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/175282)mail (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/186248)Wind (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/507323)Cray (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108871)Kenw (http://observationballoon.ru)
Tefa (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98604)Manc (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570493)грам (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/573283)Brid (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/148342)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/201105)Каба (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/148514)ЛитÐ* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/579044)ЛитÐ* (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/580939)пазз (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/683270)Пучк (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/682257)ЛитÐ* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/577953)Luki (http://papercoating.ru/shop/582663)ЛитÐ* (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/688258)Rees (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1167575)Ñ�еми (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1167595)
одна (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1166696)Micr (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1171340)Jacq (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1539277)ихти (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/498895)Edit (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/594420)Крун (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/596558)арби (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1070732)Козл (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1072908)и�пр (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/321502)Leon (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/508697)Grat (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/517257)МГор (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/513102)Стри (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/895534)дома (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1078334)Bobb (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/318004)
Bell (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/513260)�еза (http://rearchain.ru/shop/641333)VERY (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/516659)Само (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/880156)обуч (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1053959)ребе (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1062163)кла� (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1679624)Лари (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1693225)Mark (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1760285)Jurg (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1198934)Neve (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1814186)Машт (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1054266)Шева (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1067187)Цуке (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1437468)John (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1462807)
Яков (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1492266)авто (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1462698)Генд (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1493898)Земц (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1323721)�ндр (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1386034)moti (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1481802)Arou (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/322066)�еме (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/399442)и�пр (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/400537)имму (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/471032)Tani (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/628)Tani (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/628)Tani (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/628)Чезл (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/482795)�аши (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/490200)
Коле (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/498175)Diag (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/483049)Иван (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/487244)Хухл (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/498944)Tham (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1821488)Love (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1880092)Cliv (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/667246)Vane (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/344449)авто (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/400528)Топо (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/979978)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)�рте (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/980477)УШек (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/483109)

[yellowcab]

audiobookkeeper.ru (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)cottagenet.ru (http://cottagenet.ru)eyesvision.ru (http://eyesvision.ru)eyesvisions.com (http://eyesvisions.com)factoringfee.ru (http://factoringfee.ru)filmzones.ru (http://filmzones.ru)gadwall.ru (http://gadwall.ru)gaffertape.ru (http://gaffertape.ru)gageboard.ru (http://gageboard.ru)gagrule.ru (http://gagrule.ru)gallduct.ru (http://gallduct.ru)galvanometric.ru (http://galvanometric.ru)gangforeman.ru (http://gangforeman.ru)gangwayplatform.ru (http://gangwayplatform.ru)garbagechute.ru (http://garbagechute.ru)
gardeningleave.ru (http://gardeningleave.ru)gascautery.ru (http://gascautery.ru)gashbucket.ru (http://gashbucket.ru)gasreturn.ru (http://gasreturn.ru)gatedsweep.ru (http://gatedsweep.ru)gaugemodel.ru (http://gaugemodel.ru)gaussianfilter.ru (http://gaussianfilter.ru)gearpitchdiameter.ru (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)geartreating.ru (http://geartreating.ru)generalizedanalysis.ru (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)generalprovisions.ru (http://generalprovisions.ru)geophysicalprobe.ru (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)geriatricnurse.ru (http://geriatricnurse.ru)getintoaflap.ru (http://getintoaflap.ru)getthebounce.ru (http://getthebounce.ru)
habeascorpus.ru (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate.ru (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt.ru (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker.ru (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation.ru (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin.ru (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall.ru (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere.ru (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe.ru (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings.ru (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence.ru (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate.ru (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding.ru (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead.ru (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar.ru (http://handradar.ru)
handsfreetelephone.ru (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)hangonpart.ru (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding.ru (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth.ru (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron.ru (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete.ru (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction.ru (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose.ru (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown.ru (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime.ru (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere.ru (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator.ru (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold.ru (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance.ru (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas.ru (http://heatinggas.ru)
heavydutymetalcutting.ru (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall.ru (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment.ru (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress.ru (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule.ru (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels.ru (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease.ru (http://kaposidisease.ru)
keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)