End of Life Planning Effective Jan. 1, 2011

[Rick]

There was an interesting article in Sunday's NY Times regarding the reenactment of what was a very controversial component of the Obama Health Care plan. Namely, end of life planning and the fact that it will be covered Jan. 1 under Medicare. Here's the article if you would like to read it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/politics/26death.html?_r=1&ref=robertpear

I'm actually for the addition because it provides seniors with more options than they might otherwise have known they have. What concerns me, however, is how it came about. So I've been doing some digging the last couple of days.

Medicare evidently tried to pass the change by adding it to the price controls for 2011. If you've never heard of Medicare's hospital and physician price controls don't feel like the lone stranger. Most folks haven't.

The fact that it was buried without a peep and it got added as a rider is a little disturbing to me. The only reason they did it can only be to avoid the controversy that ensured not so long ago on the same subject during the Health Care debates. That's NOT how Medicare is supposed to work. And while I'm on the subject, has anyone heard of Dr. Donald Berwick? No? He's the new czar that oversees what doctors and hospital are reimbursed by Medicare. In short, he was appointed by Obama to oversee a reimbursement policy Congress opposed. I might also add he was appointed when the Senate was in recess this summer. Smooth. Real smooth.

But, lest I get political, my real intent is to make folks aware, especially if you are Medicare eligible, that end of life planning will now be paid for. Another benefit you can take advantage of. Now, if you can just get your drugs paid for.

[crashdive123]

I've been following it. Without getting political, I share your concern. On the surface, I don't have an issue with all options being explored, but in addition to how it was implemented, I am concerned about what will follow. I fear that it is an initial step, not a solution to a problem.

[2dumb2kwit]

But, lest I get political, my real intent is to make folks aware, especially if you are Medicare eligible, that end of life planning will now be paid for. Another benefit you can take advantage of. Now, if you can just get your drugs paid for.

So will that be paid for out of the 35% death tax, that goes into effect 1-1-11?:innocent:

[canid]

I'm sure I'm betraying my ignorance here, but I can't understand why it's even remotely permissible for a resolution, proposition or bill to contain two or more items not directly, necessarily and irrevocably related.

[crashdive123]

I'm sure I'm betraying my ignorance here, but I can't understand why it's even remotely permissible for a resolution, proposition or bill to contain two or more items not directly, necessarily and irrevocably related.

It's the only way they (both sides) can get 99% of the trash they foist upon us through. If every spending thing/law/regulation was its own stand alone entity it would not pass muster with the light of day shinning brightly on it.

[canid]

that can't be the answer; it makes too much sense...

[huntermj]

End of life planning, I hope i go into a bridge abutment at 110 miles per hour. at 92 years old.

[Rick]

I'm going out at the hands of a jealous lover at 102.

It's also another reason we can't get a line item veto. No one in D.C. really wants it.

[canid]

well; i own a motorcycle, so my end of life planning is pretty straight-forward if i'm still ambulatory in old age.

[SARKY]

Can we please call this what it truly is..... The Obama administration has done yet another end around the people and it's elected representatives and has reinstated death panels!

[crashdive123]

Can we please call this what it truly is..... The Obama administration has done yet another end around the people and it's elected representatives and has reinstated death panels!

We could, but that would be injecting politics into it, and as you are well aware - political discussions are verboten.

[Rick]

It would also be mis-labeling what the benefit is for. Death panels has nothing to do with it. I am eligible for end of life planning, fully paid for, with my private insurance. Why would we not want seniors, facing a life crises, to not be fully informed about their options such as pain management, hospice, medical power of attorney, durable power of attorney or state sponsored ombudsmen? To NOT provide it would be unethical and inhumane, IMHO.

[2dumb2kwit]

It would also be mis-labeling what the benefit is for. Death panels has nothing to do with it. I am eligible for end of life planning, fully paid for, with my private insurance. Why would we not want seniors, facing a life crises, to not be fully informed about their options such as pain management, hospice, medical power of attorney, durable power of attorney or state sponsored ombudsmen? To NOT provide it would be unethical and inhumane, IMHO.

OK...but what about when the state or federal social workers, that advise the elderly about their end of life planning, are instructed to start pushing the old folks into just kicking the bucket without using up all that expensive medical attention?
You know..."Well Mrs. Jones, you could get dialysis,....or you could just let nature take it's course, and let some child benefit from the medical care provided by the money saved, by you not using that expensive dialysis. Think how much happier that will make your family."

[Rick]

Well, I don't think the dialogue would go quite like that. At least it didn't with my mom. In any case, yes, one of the options is to let nature takes its course and what you can expect if you make that choice. Some people actually DO make that choice because the quality of life during treatment is less than they are willing to accept.

If your concern is that some bureaucrat will not want to pay for services because it's just to expensive and it will impact their bottom line then think again. It happens today under private insurance. All the time. It happens with Medicare today. There are some things the government will not pay for. Obama himself suggested that his grandmother's hip replacement AFTER she received a diagnosis of terminal cancer was probably not a "sustainable model". I'm not certain whether it should be either.

But that's an entirely different question than just sitting down and discussing what options are available and what planning should take place during that time. That's all this is talking about. It just pays for the time to do that.

[2dumb2kwit]

I understand what you are saying, but you are not thinking like a politician. I tend to think that sooner or later, politicians will look at it as..."I'm paying these people, so they need to push what I want them to push." (The social workers, I mean.)

[Rick]

I'm not disagreeing with you. It could easily happen. But if it's going to happen then it will happen whether end of life planning goes forward or not. And there is much more incentive for it to happen in the private sector where the insurance company's bottom line is the be all end all.

[2dumb2kwit]

I'm not disagreeing with you. It could easily happen. But if it's going to happen then it will happen whether end of life planning goes forward or not. And there is much more incentive for it to happen in the private sector where the insurance company's bottom line is the be all end all.

I guess I just don't trust the Gov't, very much.

I mean think about it.....if the Gov't is so trustworthy, why do federal workers have unions?:laugh:

[crashdive123]

I can see very easily - and that is why I have great concerns about the entire program -that the giant bureaucracy that is involved, coupled with limited resources will lead to rationing. While the conversation may not go as stated above, it might go something like - Sorry Mr. Crash - based on your life expectancy and the cost of "that" procedure, we are not able to authorize that. It's happening in other countries with government sponsored/single payer health care.

[Rick]

Indeed. Canada is a great example. Socialized medicine is not the answer. Just look at any inner city ER in the U.S. That's socialized medicine at work in most cases.

[Justin Case]

Indeed. Canada is a great example. Socialized medicine is not the answer. Just look at any inner city ER in the U.S. That's socialized medicine at work in most cases.

all the Canadians on another forum i frequent say it great,,, just sayin

[2dumb2kwit]

LOL....This would make a good signature!

I crack myself up! HaHaHa!


think about it.....if the Gov't is so trustworthy, why do federal workers have unions?

[Rick]

That's why those that can afford to come to the U.S. or another country to have procedures done do so.

[Justin Case]

That's why those that can afford to come to the U.S. or another country to have procedures done do so.

Some do that so they do not have to wait,,, Waiting seems to be a big concern, but over all the Canadians I know are happy with the Canadian system....

[2dumb2kwit]

Some do that so they do not have to wait,,, Waiting seems to be a big concern, but over all the Canadians I know are happy with the Canadian system....

Over all, the Canadians you know are healthy young socialist.:whistling: LOL

[Justin Case]

Over all, the Canadians you know are healthy young socialist.:whistling: LOL

I worked for 2 Canadian guys who's wives were nurses, they told me the same thing.

[BENESSE]

Two of my closest friends live in Canada. They like their health system because they are essentially healthy. When you're healthy, everything looks and feels better. The world is a happy place. However, the first time something seriously goes wrong, waiting can mean the difference between cure and disability, life and death.
You can't imagine it unless you or someone you care about has been there. In that case you'd give all your earthly possessions to make it better. In that case you'd want to be right here.

[Justin Case]

Yet people without healthcare die here of preventable causes,,

[BENESSE]

Yet people without healthcare die here of preventable causes,,

Obesity, for instance?

[Justin Case]

Obesity, for instance?

maybe,, even simple infections that go untreated because someone cant afford to go to the Doctor can prove fatal,,

BTW, Socialized Medicine works,, look at the VA,,, They took good care of my Dad,, (just sayin)

[2dumb2kwit]

Yet people without healthcare die here of preventable causes,,

You don't think that happens in other places?

You do know that it is illegal to deny someone life saving treatment, don't you?

Think how it might be, if it were Gov't run. Lets use a car as the example. You need an air freshener. You stop by the local auto parts store, or walmart, or grocery store and get one. Takes 30 seconds. Now, you need a new decal for your license plate, so you have to go to DMV. Think about it. LOL

[BENESSE]

We've ploughed this field before a few times over, but suffice it to say what we had before wasn't ideal for everyone. What we have now is even less so, since people who couldn't afford health insurance before will be made to buy it now or pay the penalty. And it goes downhill from there.

[2dumb2kwit]

maybe,, even simple infections that go untreated because someone cant afford to go to the Doctor can prove fatal,,

BTW, Socialized Medicine works,, look at the VA,,, They took good care of my Dad,, (just sayin)

http://www.davidstuff.com/humor/buffalo.htm

OK, seriously, that is what medicare/medicaid is for. That is what s-chip and all those programs are for. That's what free clinics are for.

I'm not saying that our system doesn't need work. It does. But this crap that is being forced down our throats, is not good for the country. In fact, it is very bad for the country. If you're looking for a nanny state, look elsewhere, and stop trying to screw up the country that most of us love.

[2dumb2kwit]

We've ploughed this field before a few times over, but suffice it to say what we had before wasn't ideal for everyone. What we have now is even less so, since people who couldn't afford health insurance before will be made to buy it now or pay the penalty. And it goes downhill from there.

Yeah....to make a few people feel like they will be well taken care of, absolutely, positively, without a doubt, no matter how little responsibility they take for their sorry self!

And with no regard for what it cost others!


Pi$$es me off!

[BENESSE]

I truly believe that now we have the worst of all worlds.
They couldn't have come up with worse if their life depended on it.

[Justin Case]

I am getting bills from my little hospital visit,, 1500 for the 2 hrs in the ER, 1500 dollars for the 5 min ambulance ride, Bills from the ER doctors,, I cant pay it right now,, the healthcare thing would have been good if it wasn't so watered down,, now its basically useless,, Oh well,, its a really tired subject,, I'm out :bored:

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

We've ploughed this field before a few times over, but suffice it to say what we had before wasn't ideal for everyone. What we have now is even less so, since people who couldn't afford health insurance before will be made to buy it now or pay the penalty. And it goes downhill from there.

Couldn't afford health insurance before, can't afford it now.... As for penalties - LMAO they can't get what I don't have(What are they gonna' do, throw me in jail? Then they will be paying for my health care, it's a lose-lose situation). I figure the next doctor I see will be a coroner. Look at all the money saved! (Dark humor) My "Current Healthcare" is my first aid books and medicinal plants books (about all I can really afford in that regards.) I can't even get a job that requires a physical unless the company is paying for it.

The way I see it is like this. Health care is for those who make good money. Before OR after any health reform, past, present or future. Do I want socialized medicine? Simple answer...no. I do find it humorous that a teacher(You know the ones that begin ALL doctors training) is paid substantially less than a Doctor or lawyer(Sorry Ken). Not only that but teachers actually (in most cases) go to school LONGER than a doctor or lawyer, an education that THEY pay for. Or a list of other occupations that they help along the way.... like Politicians. Too bad teachers can't teach them to be smart, or less greedy. No malpractice lawsuit here, you have to be able to see a doctor first. Weird paradox huh?

[2dumb2kwit]

I am getting bills from my little hospital visit,, 1500 for the 2 hrs in the ER, 1500 dollars for the 5 min ambulance ride, Bills from the ER doctors,, I cant pay it right now,, the healthcare thing would have been good if it wasn't so watered down,, now its basically useless,, Oh well,, its a really tired subject,, I'm out :bored:

Yeah, but what you don't seem to understand, is that what you are cheering for will make that cost even more!


the healthcare thing would have been good if it wasn't so watered down,,
No it wouldn't. It would have just made someone else pay the bill for you. Sooooo......I guess you would feel good about that?

Why don't you put your efforts into lowering cost of medical care, instead of just wanting someone else to pay the bill, without caring how big that makes the bill???

You can't honestly believe that Gov't control will lower cost....can you?

[Justin Case]

Yeah, but what you don't seem to understand, is that what you are cheering for will make that cost even more!


No it wouldn't. It would have just made someone else pay the bill for you. Sooooo......I guess you would feel good about that?

Why don't you put your efforts into lowering cost of medical care, instead of just wanting someone else to pay the bill, without caring how big that makes the bill???

You can't honestly believe that Gov't control will lower cost....can you?

You seem to think I have never paid taxes before,, trust me I have and will again,,

It would bring the cost down,, If the government is controlling it the cost would come down,, as it is, the hospitals charge whatever they want to charge,, hence 400 dollar aspirins....

[2dumb2kwit]

You seem to think I have never paid taxes before,, trust me I have and will again,,

That money is gone.
As far as the future goes, what you want will cost us $2,000 in taxes, to get $1,000 worth of health care. Further down the road, with more Gov't control, it will probably take $4,000 in taxes to get $1,000 in health care.

Look at the Gov'ts track record. History tells us how bad the Gov't is, at this kind of stuff!

[Justin Case]

That money is gone.
As far as the future goes, what you want will cost us $2,000 in taxes, to get $1,000 worth of health care. Further down the road, with more Gov't control, it will probably take $4,000 in taxes to get $1,000 in health care.

Look at the Gov'ts track record. History tells us how bad the Gov't is, at this kind of stuff!

Really ? The VA seems to work quite well....

[2dumb2kwit]

You seem to think I have never paid taxes before,, trust me I have and will again,,

It would bring the cost down,, If the government is controlling it the cost would come down,, as it is, the hospitals charge whatever they want to charge,, hence 400 dollar aspirins....

The ONLY way that the Gov't could lower cost, is to lower greatly the goods and services provided.

If you believe what you just posted, it is obvious to me, that you have little understanding of this subject.

[2dumb2kwit]

If the government is controlling it the cost would come down,,

There's the problem, in a nutshell.

How can you actually believe that?

[Justin Case]

Maybe Competition is the answer,,

[2dumb2kwit]

Maybe Competition is the answer,,

Ding, Ding, Ding....we have a winner!

Now, before I get all excited, what do you mean by competition?

[Justin Case]

Ding, Ding, Ding....we have a winner!

Now, before I get all excited, what do you mean by competition?

The Government competing with the private sector LOL,,,

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Really ? The VA seems to work quite well....

Yep, I'm a Vet. Who steers clear of the VA. I feel just as safe if I visit some voodoo woman or some unlicensed doctor. I have heard too many "Horror stories" of VA hospitals. Thanks but no thanks.

There are some good Doctors that work for the Gov't....usually at places like Walter Reed or the equivalent. Most of the Doc's around here have similar stories said about them.

You are about as good not seeing them as you are seeing them. Oh sure, broken bones, stitches, stuff like that they are good, but nothing I am willing to put my life in their hands with.

[2dumb2kwit]

The Government competing with the private sector LOL,,,

Yeah...that would be competition.....if the private sector was allowed to use force to take whatever they want.

[Rick]

Jeez, I step away for an hour and you guys go crazy.

A recent court decision found that it is unconstitutional for the government to force the population to take health care insurance. I'm sure this one will be before the Supreme Court.

http://www.mnmed.org/News/NewsFullStory/tabid/2266/ArticleID/3878/CBModuleId/8723/Default.aspx

Justin - Your example of the VA is really a good one and one I hadn't considered. But you are correct. Dad was treated splendidly by the VA. Top notch.

Frankly, I don't have a real problem with government funded health care. Some would say it's part of the basic requirement of any government. The early Greeks said government served only to improve the lives of its citizens and there is some reasoning in that approach. What I am against is the timing. With a $13T debt I don't think we can afford much more expense.

[Justin Case]

Yeah...that would be competition.....if the private sector was allowed to use force to take whatever they want.

They already are,, in the form of people having no other option,, as long as the medical powers that be stick together, and they will,, they will continue to charge these overinflated prices,, I would rather be taxed a little more and have basic health insurance guaranteed than have none,,

:nurse::nurse:

[Justin Case]

Yep, I'm a Vet. Who steers clear of the VA. I feel just as safe if I visit some voodoo woman or some unlicensed doctor. I have heard too many "Horror stories" of VA hospitals. Thanks but no thanks.

There are some good Doctors that work for the Gov't....usually at places like Walter Reed or the equivalent. Most of the Doc's around here have similar stories said about them.

You are about as good not seeing them as you are seeing them. Oh sure, broken bones, stitches, stuff like that they are good, but nothing I am willing to put my life in their hands with.

Like I said, they took great care of my dad ,, and he was terminally ill,

[Rick]

You are discounting the need to offset the cost associated with those patients that don't have insurance. A hospital can not refuse to treat a patient. If the patient has no insurance then they eat the cost. They make that up by overcharging those than can pay and those that have insurance. Even then they may have to eat some of the cost because insurance only pays reasonable and customary and/or they are contracted to provide services at a set cost. Very precarious financial balancing act for hospitals. Particularly those that service rural areas. That's why many don't survive.

[Justin Case]

]You are discounting the need to offset the cost associated with those patients that don't have insurance.[/B] A hospital can not refuse to treat a patient. If the patient has no insurance then they eat the cost. They make that up by overcharging those than can pay and those that have insurance. Even then they may have to eat some of the cost because insurance only pays reasonable and customary and/or they are contracted to provide services at a set cost. Very precarious financial balancing act for hospitals. Particularly those that service rural areas. That's why many don't survive.

Yes, and thats the problem, if there was universal healthcare for everybody,, the hospitals would always get paid,, They would not have to "eat" anything,,

[Sam]

You seem to think I have never paid taxes before,, trust me I have and will again,,

It would bring the cost down,, If the government is controlling it the cost would come down,, as it is, the hospitals charge whatever they want to charge,, hence 400 dollar aspirins....

Will it be like insurance oversight, that keeps insurance companies from bending people over?
-Sam

[2dumb2kwit]

Yes, and thats the problem, if there was universal healthcare for everybody,, the hospitals would always get paid,, They would not have to "eat" anything,,

You just don't get it, do you? The money has to come from somewhere!

[2dumb2kwit]

They already are,, in the form of people having no other option,, as long as the medical powers that be stick together, and they will,, they will continue to charge these overinflated prices,, I would rather be taxed a little more and have basic health insurance guaranteed than have none,,

:nurse::nurse:

The only thing limiting your options, are the laws that are made up, by the very people you want to give control to. Think about that.

[Sam]

Yep, I'm a Vet. Who steers clear of the VA. I feel just as safe if I visit some voodoo woman or some unlicensed doctor. I have heard too many "Horror stories" of VA hospitals. Thanks but no thanks.

There are some good Doctors that work for the Gov't....usually at places like Walter Reed or the equivalent. Most of the Doc's around here have similar stories said about them.

You are about as good not seeing them as you are seeing them. Oh sure, broken bones, stitches, stuff like that they are good, but nothing I am willing to put my life in their hands with.

VA dentist, "You're a Marine, we can pull that tooth with out any shots. Suck it up butter cup." That was my last visit.
-Sam

[2dumb2kwit]

Yes, and thats the problem, if there was universal healthcare for everybody,, the hospitals would always get paid,, They would not have to "eat" anything,,

So what do the hospitals do, when they are expected to give $1.5 million in medical care, and Uncle Sam says that they are only going to pay them $1 million???

BTW, Uncle Sam took $3 million in taxes to cover this, but after the "red tape" there was only $1 million left to pay the hospital.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

You are discounting the need to offset the cost associated with those patients that don't have insurance. A hospital can not refuse to treat a patient. If the patient has no insurance then they eat the cost. They make that up by overcharging those than can pay and those that have insurance. Even then they may have to eat some of the cost because insurance only pays reasonable and customary and/or they are contracted to provide services at a set cost. Very precarious financial balancing act for hospitals. Particularly those that service rural areas. That's why many don't survive.

Yes and why they employ substandard Doctors too. Like the one who we told(verbally) that our son was allergic to sulfur meds, It was in his charts, AND it was on his color coded bracelet he was wearing. So he prescribes the medicine, we get to the pharmacy, tell the pharmacist that our son is allergic to sulfur meds, the Pharmacist informs us that it is a SULFUR BASED Medicine!!! The Pharmacist then calls the Doctor and argues with him for an hour!! The Doctor REFUSES To change the Medicine!! The Pharmacist (Who also has the record of his allergies, then Changes it to a different based medicine and tosses the prescription in his tray. And starts to fill out a report on WHY he had to disregard the Doctors prescription.
We Contact the Hospital, They tell us that they have to talk to the Doctor and get back with us. a full month later we call them to find out what happened.... nothing yet. Call back yet again in 2 weeks and find out that all they did was tell the Doctor he had to be more careful. Talking to other people in the community we find that this particular Doctor has done things of a similar nature DOZENS of times!! Had we followed the doctors advise without questioning the pharmacist(which we almost didn't do...after all the info was on the bracelet, in his charts, and we had told him ourselves) we would have had a funeral to attend to. This is way to common.

[Rick]

Can't speak to either situation. I know I would have filed a complaint with 1. The VA against the dentist and 2. The state license agency in your case, Poco. Neither are the norm nor should they be expected. Are there bad physicians? Yeah. Just like there are bad __________ fill in the blank. You know what they call the guy that graduated last in his medical class? Doctor.

[Justin Case]

where I used to live, there was a local doctor that earned the nick name "Dr Death" ,,, seriously,,,,

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Can't speak to either situation. I know I would have filed a complaint with 1. The VA against the dentist and 2. The state license agency in your case, Poco. Neither are the norm nor should they be expected. Are there bad physicians? Yeah. Just like there are bad __________ fill in the blank. You know what they call the guy that graduated last in his medical class? Doctor.

Well the "Patient Care Advocate" said there was nothing else we could do. So we didn't. I may be just a cynical old fart, but I am finding more and more that the people we are supposed to trust (Doctors, politicians, and such)Do NOT deserve to be trusted at all. Funny thing is that the Vets here (for the most part) are more trustworthy around here than any Doctor in town. (with the exception of the doctor that delivered our first son, but he left Town for a better practice.) Just seems that wherever we go there are "Bad____ (just name a profession). it seems that it is more common than uncommon nowadays.

Like when I was fired from my last job, a clear cut case of discrimination (based on the companies own policies), but no Lawyer would even return my calls or call me from my visits to their offices. (I was fired for having my pocketknife out at work, but a guy who stuck a pair of scissors to another workers throat and threatened to kill him still works there 2 years after it happened) All I wanted was my job back.( Even the Labor board said it was too severe a punishment when I appealed them denying my unemployment. They even made what I did sound worse in their denial of unemployment than what actually happened.) Funny thing though they can't keep anyone on the line I worked on... they say it's too hard of a job to do. Yet I worked it for years and never complained once. I LOVE the Irony there.

I really can understand why there are Modern day Hermits. If I didn't have young kids I would probably be one too.

[BENESSE]

IMO, basic & preventive national healthcare should be on par with national defense/LE, infrastructure, and education. That's it. No more, no less.
If you want more than basic, you'll have to pay for it out of your own pocket the way you do when you choose to send your kid to private school. If you choose to purposely compromise your health by doing stuff universally accepted as harmful, then you'll have to pay for it, again, out of your own pocket. Actions have consequences, good and bad. You get to choose what's right for you. Not I, not the government.

[Aurelius95]

End of life planning, I hope i go into a bridge abutment at 110 miles per hour. at 92 years old.

Larry: My grandma died.

Jeff: I'm sorry to hear that. How'd she die?

Larry: She was 94! She died in bike wreck at Bike Week.

[Justin Case]

IMO, basic & preventive national healthcare should be on par with national defense/LE, infrastructure, and education. That's it. No more, no less.
If you want more than basic, you'll have to pay for it out of your own pocket the way you do when you choose to send your kid to private school. If you choose to purposely compromise your health by doing stuff universally accepted as harmful, then you'll have to pay for it, again, out of your own pocket. Actions have consequences, good and bad. You get to choose what's right for you. Not I, not the government.

well said ! :thumbup::clap:

[Rick]

That is an interesting take, B. I'll have to think about that one. I don't know about the basic defense thingie, though.

Soldier: "Okay, you have our basic policy. We can protect you from all hand guns and light automatic weapons. If you want protection from APGs and IEDs then you'll have to take out our silver policy. We also cover heavy automatic weapons, too. Our gold policy covers up to and including artillery. We do throw in inbound conventional missile coverage at no extra charge however. If you really want to be covered then I suggest our platinum policy. It covers everything in the silver and gold package plus EMP, biological, gas, and direct nuclear strike. Now think about it. How much is your family worth?"

[crashdive123]

IMO, basic & preventive national healthcare should be on par with national defense/LE, infrastructure, and education. That's it. No more, no less.
If you want more than basic, you'll have to pay for it out of your own pocket the way you do when you choose to send your kid to private school. If you choose to purposely compromise your health by doing stuff universally accepted as harmful, then you'll have to pay for it, again, out of your own pocket. Actions have consequences, good and bad. You get to choose what's right for you. Not I, not the government.

The joys of freedom is the ability to choose. Sometimes we do not choose wisely, but anything less is akin to servitude.

[Rick]

Still on the pain meds ain't ya?

[BENESSE]

I was only equating basic health care to basic education. Defense/LE is in a category of it's own.
And while we're on national defense, everyone gets into a peace time draft.

[Rick]

Hey! Just havin' a little fun. I do like your idea of basic/preventative care, however. I think there is some genuine merit in that.

[2dumb2kwit]

Still on the pain meds ain't ya?

Yeah....he forgot to put it into words that we know! LOL:pinch:

[2dumb2kwit]

I was only equating basic health care to basic education. Defense/LE is in a category of it's own.
And while we're on national defense, everyone gets into a peace time draft.

What about basic shelter....basic food......basic transportation....basic clothing.....

[BENESSE]

I know you're being a smart a$$ 2D so I'm not gonna take the bait. What I said above is "no more, no less".

[kyratshooter]

Yet people without healthcare die here of preventable causes,,

Only if they choose too. Why does every socialist have this "die on the steps of the hospital" mythology.

By law no hospital can deprive a person of needed services. At least not in my state.

My wife worked for a very large nonprofit, charity hospital that was the sole provider of med-care in our region. No one was turned away.

They were/are on the top 20 hospitals of the nation list and are one of the 5 best places in the state/region to work.

[yellowcab]

�айт (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)�айт (http://cottagenet.ru)�айт (http://eyesvision.ru)�айт (http://eyesvisions.com)�айт (http://factoringfee.ru)�айт (http://filmzones.ru)�айт (http://gadwall.ru)�айт (http://gaffertape.ru)�айт (http://gageboard.ru)�айт (http://gagrule.ru)�айт (http://gallduct.ru)�айт (http://galvanometric.ru)�айт (http://gangforeman.ru)�айт (http://gangwayplatform.ru)�айт (http://garbagechute.ru)
�айт (http://gardeningleave.ru)�айт (http://gascautery.ru)�айт (http://gashbucket.ru)�айт (http://gasreturn.ru)�айт (http://gatedsweep.ru)�айт (http://gaugemodel.ru)�айт (http://gaussianfilter.ru)�айт (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)�айт (http://geartreating.ru)�айт (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)�айт (http://generalprovisions.ru)�айт (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)�айт (http://geriatricnurse.ru)�айт (http://getintoaflap.ru)�айт (http://getthebounce.ru)
�айт (http://habeascorpus.ru)�айт (http://habituate.ru)�айт (http://hackedbolt.ru)�айт (http://hackworker.ru)�айт (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)�айт (http://haemagglutinin.ru)�айт (http://hailsquall.ru)�айт (http://hairysphere.ru)�айт (http://halforderfringe.ru)�айт (http://halfsiblings.ru)�айт (http://hallofresidence.ru)�айт (http://haltstate.ru)�айт (http://handcoding.ru)�айт (http://handportedhead.ru)�айт (http://handradar.ru)
�айт (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)�айт (http://hangonpart.ru)�айт (http://haphazardwinding.ru)�айт (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)�айт (http://hardasiron.ru)�айт (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)�айт (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)�айт (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)�айт (http://hatchholddown.ru)�айт (http://haveafinetime.ru)�айт (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)�айт (http://headregulator.ru)�айт (http://heartofgold.ru)�айт (http://heatageingresistance.ru)�айт (http://heatinggas.ru)
�айт (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)�айт (http://jacketedwall.ru)�айт (http://japanesecedar.ru)�айт (http://jibtypecrane.ru)�айт (http://jobabandonment.ru)�айт (http://jobstress.ru)�айт (http://jogformation.ru)�айт (http://jointcapsule.ru)�айт (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)�айт (http://journallubricator.ru)�айт (http://juicecatcher.ru)�айт (http://junctionofchannels.ru)�айт (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)�айт (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)�айт (http://kaposidisease.ru)
�айт (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)�айт (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)�айт (http://kentishglory.ru)�айт (http://kerbweight.ru)�айт (http://kerrrotation.ru)�айт (http://keymanassurance.ru)�айт (http://keyserum.ru)�айт (http://kickplate.ru)�айт (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)�айт (http://kilowattsecond.ru)�айт (http://kingweakfish.ru)�айт (http://kinozones.ru)�айт (http://kleinbottle.ru)�айт (http://kneejoint.ru)�айт (http://knifesethouse.ru)
�айт (http://knockonatom.ru)�айт (http://knowledgestate.ru)�айт (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)�айт (http://labeledgraph.ru)�айт (http://laborracket.ru)�айт (http://labourearnings.ru)�айт (http://labourleasing.ru)�айт (http://laburnumtree.ru)�айт (http://lacingcourse.ru)�айт (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)�айт (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)�айт (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)�айт (http://ladletreatediron.ru)�айт (http://laggingload.ru)�айт (http://laissezaller.ru)
�айт (http://lambdatransition.ru)�айт (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)�айт (http://lammasshoot.ru)�айт (http://lamphouse.ru)�айт (http://lancecorporal.ru)�айт (http://lancingdie.ru)�айт (http://landingdoor.ru)�айт (http://landmarksensor.ru)�айт (http://landreform.ru)�айт (http://landuseratio.ru)�айт (http://languagelaboratory.ru)�айт (http://largeheart.ru)�айт (http://lasercalibration.ru)�айт (http://laserlens.ru)�айт (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

�айт (http://laterevent.ru)�айт (http://latrinesergeant.ru)�айт (http://layabout.ru)�айт (http://leadcoating.ru)�айт (http://leadingfirm.ru)�айт (http://learningcurve.ru)�айт (http://leaveword.ru)�айт (http://machinesensible.ru)�айт (http://magneticequator.ru)�айт (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)�айт (http://mailinghouse.ru)�айт (http://majorconcern.ru)�айт (http://mammasdarling.ru)�айт (http://managerialstaff.ru)�айт (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
�айт (http://manualchoke.ru)�айт (http://medinfobooks.ru)�айт (http://mp3lists.ru)�айт (http://nameresolution.ru)�айт (http://naphtheneseries.ru)�айт (http://narrowmouthed.ru)�айт (http://nationalcensus.ru)�айт (http://naturalfunctor.ru)�айт (http://navelseed.ru)�айт (http://neatplaster.ru)�айт (http://necroticcaries.ru)�айт (http://negativefibration.ru)�айт (http://neighbouringrights.ru)�айт (http://objectmodule.ru)�айт (http://observationballoon.ru)
�айт (http://obstructivepatent.ru)�айт (http://oceanmining.ru)�айт (http://octupolephonon.ru)�айт (http://offlinesystem.ru)�айт (http://offsetholder.ru)�айт (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)�айт (http://onesticket.ru)�айт (http://packedspheres.ru)�айт (http://pagingterminal.ru)�айт (http://palatinebones.ru)�айт (http://palmberry.ru)�айт (http://papercoating.ru)�айт (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)�айт (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)�айт (http://parkingbrake.ru)
�айт (http://partfamily.ru)�айт (http://partialmajorant.ru)�айт (http://quadrupleworm.ru)�айт (http://qualitybooster.ru)�айт (http://quasimoney.ru)�айт (http://quenchedspark.ru)�айт (http://quodrecuperet.ru)�айт (http://rabbetledge.ru)�айт (http://radialchaser.ru)�айт (http://radiationestimator.ru)�айт (http://railwaybridge.ru)�айт (http://randomcoloration.ru)�айт (http://rapidgrowth.ru)�айт (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)�айт (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
�айт (http://readingmagnifier.ru)�айт (http://rearchain.ru)�айт (http://recessioncone.ru)�айт (http://recordedassignment.ru)�айт (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)�айт (http://redemptionvalue.ru)�айт (http://reducingflange.ru)�айт (http://referenceantigen.ru)�айт (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)�айт (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)�айт (http://safedrilling.ru)�айт (http://sagprofile.ru)�айт (http://salestypelease.ru)�айт (http://samplinginterval.ru)�айт (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
�айт (http://scarcecommodity.ru)�айт (http://scrapermat.ru)�айт (http://screwingunit.ru)�айт (http://seawaterpump.ru)�айт (http://secondaryblock.ru)�айт (http://secularclergy.ru)�айт (http://seismicefficiency.ru)�айт (http://selectivediffuser.ru)�айт (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)�айт (http://semifinishmachining.ru)�айт (http://spicetrade.ru)�айт (http://spysale.ru)�айт (http://stungun.ru)�айт (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)�айт (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
�айт (http://tamecurve.ru)�айт (http://tapecorrection.ru)�айт (http://tappingchuck.ru)�айт (http://taskreasoning.ru)�айт (http://technicalgrade.ru)�айт (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)�айт (http://telescopicdamper.ru)�айт (http://temperateclimate.ru)�айт (http://temperedmeasure.ru)�айт (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)�айт (http://ultramaficrock.ru)�айт (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

STAL (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/4781)57.1 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/17)двое (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/49)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com/better-eyesight-magazine-better-eyesight-1926-01)Jack (http://factoringfee.ru)Pros (http://filmzones.ru)Стук (http://gadwall.ru)Локш (http://gaffertape.ru)прел (http://gageboard.ru)Cash (http://gagrule.ru)What (http://gallduct.ru)Deko (http://galvanometric.ru)0023 (http://gangforeman.ru)Казе (http://gangwayplatform.ru)Clas (http://garbagechute.ru)
Girl (http://gardeningleave.ru)�н�о (http://gascautery.ru)Plin (http://gashbucket.ru)Tony (http://gasreturn.ru)Pian (http://gatedsweep.ru)перв (http://gaugemodel.ru)журн (http://gaussianfilter.ru)Defo (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)Mich (http://geartreating.ru)Boze (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)Цург (http://generalprovisions.ru)�ким (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)Penh (http://geriatricnurse.ru)Side (http://getintoaflap.ru)Legs (http://getthebounce.ru)
Урум (http://habeascorpus.ru)(190 (http://habituate.ru)Doct (http://hackedbolt.ru)Henr (http://hackworker.ru)авто (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)Stan (http://haemagglutinin.ru)�ерт (http://hailsquall.ru)�ерт (http://hairysphere.ru)приш (http://halforderfringe.ru)Марк (http://halfsiblings.ru)фрон (http://hallofresidence.ru)Jack (http://haltstate.ru)Tunn (http://handcoding.ru)Arab (http://handportedhead.ru)Cari (http://handradar.ru)
Doma (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)Slim (http://hangonpart.ru)City (http://haphazardwinding.ru)Мерк (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)Muri (http://hardasiron.ru)Brad (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)Thri (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)Maje (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)Sona (http://hatchholddown.ru)Movi (http://haveafinetime.ru)Robe (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)Aion (http://headregulator.ru)Etie (http://heartofgold.ru)Ша�т (http://heatageingresistance.ru)ZIMP (http://heatinggas.ru)
Катю (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)Davi (http://jacketedwall.ru)Ком� (http://japanesecedar.ru)�к�п (http://jibtypecrane.ru)перв (http://jobabandonment.ru)�лов (http://jobstress.ru)Thom (http://jogformation.ru)Попо (http://jointcapsule.ru)Кра� (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)Sims (http://journallubricator.ru)Vogu (http://juicecatcher.ru)Иллю (http://junctionofchannels.ru)Rain (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)Wind (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)Wind (http://kaposidisease.ru)
Pete (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)Wind (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)Hitm (http://kentishglory.ru)Serp (http://kerbweight.ru)Jame (http://kerrrotation.ru)Wind (http://keymanassurance.ru)Wick (http://keyserum.ru)(Сан (http://kickplate.ru)�ере (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)Stan (http://kilowattsecond.ru)Семе (http://kingweakfish.ru)Земл (http://kinozones.ru/film/4781)журн (http://kleinbottle.ru)Itch (http://kneejoint.ru)фант (http://knifesethouse.ru)
Nell (http://knockonatom.ru)Ð*Ñ�за (http://knowledgestate.ru)Arts (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)Ð�ово (http://labeledgraph.ru)Arts (http://laborracket.ru)Прон (http://labourearnings.ru)Jose (http://labourleasing.ru)Федо (http://laburnumtree.ru)мыÑ�л (http://lacingcourse.ru)разд (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)King (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)micr (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)Warh (http://ladletreatediron.ru)Ñ�тан (http://laggingload.ru)БеÑ�б (http://laissezaller.ru)
Sony (http://lambdatransition.ru)Roge (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)Echo (http://lammasshoot.ru)рок- (http://lamphouse.ru)Robe (http://lancecorporal.ru)Batt (http://lancingdie.ru)Gret (http://landingdoor.ru)Xbox (http://landmarksensor.ru)�кла (http://landreform.ru)Dolb (http://landuseratio.ru)аква (http://languagelaboratory.ru)Царе (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160497)Roya (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/589400)21-6 (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/485)Drac (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590190)

[yellowcab]

Подо (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1031021)Прои (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/451577)Прои (http://layabout.ru/shop/451884)Янов (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/166068)Z56- (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/105489)Орло (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/456880)худо (http://leaveword.ru/shop/459727)Ruya (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/166703)комп (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/444298)Renz (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/194121)Каши (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/160754)Звез (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/269452)STAR (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/160075)Marc (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159837)WAEC (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613619)
това (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598134)миок (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1423)clas (http://mp3lists.ru/item/4781)PELO (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/564047)Бори (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/104757)лопа (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/460846)изде (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/486650)пало (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/167186)Xbox (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100942)�инт (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/454658)Феде (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/167412)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/185574)Eldo (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/446598)Iwak (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108657)supe (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/446481)
Bosc (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98434)Boss (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570315)Whis (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571843)1962 (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/148051)Ð�уди (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/200794)ЛитÐ* (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/147930)Frie (http://onesticket.ru/shop/578425)Sean (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/580340)аÑ�пи (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/682669)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/681028)Лекц (http://palmberry.ru/shop/378696)курÑ� (http://papercoating.ru/shop/581772)Ralp (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/685763)Fryd (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1167053)Семе (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1167103)
ДубÑ� (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1166066)Ð*обÑ� (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1168896)унив (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1539013)верÑ� (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/395270)Певз (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/594052)амер (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/595728)Битю (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1068034)допо (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1072354)Mikh (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/216979)Conc (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/480154)деÑ�Ñ� (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/513197)Simo (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/511852)Ñ�кза (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/797976)Теде (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1077580)Грин (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/317741)
Jack (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/509788)Jacq (http://rearchain.ru/shop/640753)Перл (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/515671)conc (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/879722)Скок (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1053262)вузо (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1061794)авто (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1678378)Капл (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1692929)Хрип (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1758071)Slum (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/121891)Anto (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1813810)�мче (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1053244)�ефе (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1065962)Став (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1428108)Храп (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1461526)
путе (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1487335)Ales (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1461535)Давы (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1493311)худо (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1294789)Rebe (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/270685)Jewe (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1480297)Котл (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/161188)Корч (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/398921)авто (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/399855)Reve (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/460385)21-6 (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/485)21-6 (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/485)21-6 (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/485)Банд (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/482215)дете (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/489595)
Darr (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/475951)де�� (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/482456)зани (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/486170)Мир� (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/498364)King (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1820914)рабо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1876377)Focu (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/645037)Земц (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/327527)�лек (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/399818)Иван (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/979433)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Шала (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/979785)Intr (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/482611)

[yellowcab]

�айт (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)�айт (http://cottagenet.ru)�айт (http://eyesvision.ru)�айт (http://eyesvisions.com)�айт (http://factoringfee.ru)�айт (http://filmzones.ru)�айт (http://gadwall.ru)�айт (http://gaffertape.ru)�айт (http://gageboard.ru)�айт (http://gagrule.ru)�айт (http://gallduct.ru)�айт (http://galvanometric.ru)�айт (http://gangforeman.ru)�айт (http://gangwayplatform.ru)�айт (http://garbagechute.ru)
�айт (http://gardeningleave.ru)�айт (http://gascautery.ru)�айт (http://gashbucket.ru)�айт (http://gasreturn.ru)�айт (http://gatedsweep.ru)�айт (http://gaugemodel.ru)�айт (http://gaussianfilter.ru)�айт (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)�айт (http://geartreating.ru)�айт (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)�айт (http://generalprovisions.ru)�айт (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)�айт (http://geriatricnurse.ru)�айт (http://getintoaflap.ru)�айт (http://getthebounce.ru)
�айт (http://habeascorpus.ru)�айт (http://habituate.ru)�айт (http://hackedbolt.ru)�айт (http://hackworker.ru)�айт (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)�айт (http://haemagglutinin.ru)�айт (http://hailsquall.ru)�айт (http://hairysphere.ru)�айт (http://halforderfringe.ru)�айт (http://halfsiblings.ru)�айт (http://hallofresidence.ru)�айт (http://haltstate.ru)�айт (http://handcoding.ru)�айт (http://handportedhead.ru)�айт (http://handradar.ru)
�айт (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)�айт (http://hangonpart.ru)�айт (http://haphazardwinding.ru)�айт (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)�айт (http://hardasiron.ru)�айт (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)�айт (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)�айт (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)�айт (http://hatchholddown.ru)�айт (http://haveafinetime.ru)�айт (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)�айт (http://headregulator.ru)�айт (http://heartofgold.ru)�айт (http://heatageingresistance.ru)�айт (http://heatinggas.ru)
�айт (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)�айт (http://jacketedwall.ru)�айт (http://japanesecedar.ru)�айт (http://jibtypecrane.ru)�айт (http://jobabandonment.ru)�айт (http://jobstress.ru)�айт (http://jogformation.ru)�айт (http://jointcapsule.ru)�айт (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)�айт (http://journallubricator.ru)�айт (http://juicecatcher.ru)�айт (http://junctionofchannels.ru)�айт (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)�айт (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)�айт (http://kaposidisease.ru)
�айт (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)�айт (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)�айт (http://kentishglory.ru)�айт (http://kerbweight.ru)�айт (http://kerrrotation.ru)�айт (http://keymanassurance.ru)�айт (http://keyserum.ru)�айт (http://kickplate.ru)�айт (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)�айт (http://kilowattsecond.ru)�айт (http://kingweakfish.ru)�айт (http://kinozones.ru)�айт (http://kleinbottle.ru)�айт (http://kneejoint.ru)�айт (http://knifesethouse.ru)
�айт (http://knockonatom.ru)�айт (http://knowledgestate.ru)�айт (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)�айт (http://labeledgraph.ru)�айт (http://laborracket.ru)�айт (http://labourearnings.ru)�айт (http://labourleasing.ru)�айт (http://laburnumtree.ru)�айт (http://lacingcourse.ru)�айт (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)�айт (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)�айт (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)�айт (http://ladletreatediron.ru)�айт (http://laggingload.ru)�айт (http://laissezaller.ru)
�айт (http://lambdatransition.ru)�айт (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)�айт (http://lammasshoot.ru)�айт (http://lamphouse.ru)�айт (http://lancecorporal.ru)�айт (http://lancingdie.ru)�айт (http://landingdoor.ru)�айт (http://landmarksensor.ru)�айт (http://landreform.ru)�айт (http://landuseratio.ru)�айт (http://languagelaboratory.ru)�айт (http://largeheart.ru)�айт (http://lasercalibration.ru)�айт (http://laserlens.ru)�айт (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

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