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2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 10:47 AM
Hold on to your hats.......this is going to make energy prices go through the roof. (IMHO)


WASHINGTON — Stymied in Congress, the Obama administration is moving unilaterally to clamp down on power plant and oil refinery greenhouse emissions, announcing plans for developing new standards over the next year.

In a statement posted on the agency's website late Thursday, Environmental Protection Agency administrator Lisa Jackson said the aim was to better cope with pollution contributing to climate change.

"We are following through on our commitment to proceed in a measured and careful way to reduce GHG pollution that threatens the health and welfare of Americans," Jackson said in a statement. She said emissions from power plants and oil refineries constitute about 40 percent of the greenhouse gas pollution in this country.


The EPA also announced Thursday that it was taking the unprecedented step of directly issuing air permits to industries in Texas, citing the state's unwillingness to comply with greenhouse gas regulations going into effect Jan. 2. EPA officials said they reluctantly were taking over Clean Air Act Permits for greenhouse gas emissions because "officials in Texas have made clear.they have no intention of implementing this portion of the federal air permitting program."


Two days after the midterm elections, Obama served notice that he would look for ways to control global warming pollution other than Congress placing a ceiling on it.


In Thursday's announcement, Jackson said that under an agreement associated with the court suit, EPA will propose standards for power plants in July 2011 and refineries in December 2011 and will issue final standards in May and November 2012, respectively.



The article is here....

http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/9000/30294719/EPA_moving_unilaterally_to_limit_greenhouse_gases/2

BENESSE
12-24-2010, 11:01 AM
Yeah, imposing standards has a way of doing that--but instead of us paying for it, it should be the companies who are obviously not responsible enough to maintain them on their own.
(OK, Benesse starring in the role of Punching Judy again)

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 11:07 AM
Ah heck, we'll argue later....right now I'm kinda laughing to myself, (not at myself, B.) that years ago, environmentalist were yelling "split wood, not atoms", now they're yelling "split atoms, not wood". Funny how things turn around, with time.

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 11:08 AM
Yeah, imposing standards has a way of doing that--but instead of us paying for it, it should be the companies who are obviously not responsible enough to maintain them on their own.(OK, Benesse starring in the role of Punching Judy again)

If that's the case, aren't we still paying for it?

Winnie
12-24-2010, 11:19 AM
I've never had much of a problem with pollution control, in the end it is us who benefit. HOWEVER, I do take exception to the likes of me and you paying the price. Here's a novelty... Why not BAN the illumination of Office Buildings, Shops, Company Buildings and Landmarks! There would be a threefold benefit, 1) A huge reduction in energy consumption and therefore 2) reduction in GHG, 3) less money spent. If this was accepted worldwide, imagine the difference! Oh sorry, I forgot, that's common sense, that is, far easier to put prices up. Oh and just to prove a point, Energy prices have just gone up!

BENESSE
12-24-2010, 11:34 AM
If that's the case, aren't we still paying for it?

We always do, no matter what.
Even when they save money (cheap labor abroad, 0 standards, etc.) they don't pass the savings on to us, do they?
So if I'm paying anyway I want to live safer and cleaner.
Is that too much to ax?

BENESSE
12-24-2010, 11:35 AM
I agree Winnie. Unfortunately, it does make sense and therefore it won't see the light of day.

Rick
12-24-2010, 11:51 AM
I've said for a very long time that tax penalties should be imposed for building new or increasing capacity on existing coal fired power plants. Tax incentives should be provided for any renewable plant. Make a business incentive for the companies to convert and they will. It's dollars and cents. We have almost a limitless supply of natural gas yet coal is used because of cost. Why on earth does natural gas cost as much as gasoline when about 90% of it is produced domestically and we have humongous stores of the stuff? Remove the humidity, add the stink and pump it.

I can't imagine anyone not on board with an increase in clean air standards. If we sully up the atmosphere worse than we have, where will we go?

crashdive123
12-24-2010, 11:53 AM
But isn't much of that natural gas (US supply anyway) out of reach because of governmental regulations?

Rick
12-24-2010, 12:05 PM
Some of it but the vast majority is being tapped today. Mobile bay looks like a metal forest with all the natural gas rigs as does just offshore in the Gulf.

If you scan down on this link you'll find a map that shows where current deposits are located. Even Florida has some.

http://www.naturalgas.org/overview/resources.asp

The Middle East, Europe and Asia have far more reserves than the U.S. but we produce 88% of our needs right here in the U.S. The largest exporter to the U.S. is Canada. Pretty cool, eh?

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/feature_articles/2010/ngimpexp2009/ngimpexp2009.htm

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 01:14 PM
But isn't much of that natural gas (US supply anyway) out of reach because of governmental regulations?

Some in Virginia want to tap into the huge deposits of it, off the coast, and guess what.......Yep, being held back by fed. Gov't., epa, tree huggers, etc., etc.....

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 01:18 PM
It is my understanding, that the reg's are so bad, that they can't do small improvements to oil refineries, etc, because if they do improvements, they have to jump through all the hoops, and bring the whole thing up to todays standards, making it too expensive to do upgrades of any kind.

Makes sense, right....make it perfect, or leave it terrible......no in between will be allowed.

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 01:18 PM
I also think we need to take a good look at France, and their nuke program.

BENESSE
12-24-2010, 01:27 PM
... years ago, environmentalist were yelling "split wood, not atoms", now they're yelling "split atoms, not wood". Funny how things turn around, with time.


I also think we need to take a good look at France, and their nuke program.

Things turn around with time because we learn more with time. You should approve.

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 01:33 PM
The Obama administration announced Wednesday that it will not allow any drilling for oil and gas off the Virginia coast until at least 2017,


In outlining the decision, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said the moratorium will also include waters off North Carolina and the rest of the Atlantic, as well as a large swath of the eastern Gulf off Florida.


http://hamptonroads.com/2010/12/obama-administration-no-drilling-virginia-7-years

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 01:42 PM
Things turn around with time because we learn more with time. You should approve.

It's not that I don't approve.....I'm just thinking that if it weren't for the tree huggers of the past, we might have gotten to, or exceeded the level of nuke power that France has done. If that had happened, how much less pollution would have been spewed in the last 30 or 40 years?

Rick
12-24-2010, 01:55 PM
Where do you plan to put all that spent fuel?

Refineries are making upgrades all the time. My step brother is an electrician in a BP refinery in Texas outside of Houston. He works non-stop. He works 7 days a week and his group works 24 hours a day. They have made massive additions and refits and upgrades occur all the time.

I'm not disputing the EPA requirements. You may well be right about that. All I know is what he tells me and they are expanding all the time.

BENESSE
12-24-2010, 01:55 PM
No reason crying over split milkwood.
I wanna get on the ball now and stop all the hand-wringing and wasting time being counter productive. We all want the same thing and how we get there shouldn't be too hard to figure out. Maximum benefit to people and the environment, all things considered.

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 02:01 PM
No reason crying over split milkwood.
I wanna get on the ball now and stop all the hand-wringing and wasting time being counter productive. We all want the same thing and how we get there shouldn't be too hard to figure out. Maximum benefit to people and the environment, all things considered.

Well, see.....there's your problem. You're trying to apply common sense.

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 02:27 PM
Where do you plan to put all that spent fuel? Refineries are making upgrades all the time. My step brother is an electrician in a BP refinery in Texas outside of Houston. He works non-stop. He works 7 days a week and his group works 24 hours a day. They have made massive additions and refits and upgrades occur all the time.

I'm not disputing the EPA requirements. You may well be right about that. All I know is what he tells me and they are expanding all the time.

The first thing we need to do, is recycle. This will greatly reduce the problem. (Like France.)

Rick
12-24-2010, 03:11 PM
You, uh, want to turn spent fuel into T-shirts?!

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 03:47 PM
You, uh, want to turn spent fuel into T-shirts?!

The French make t-shirts out of spent fuel???

Hey....wait a minute.

I think you're trying to cornfuse me!:blush: LOL

BENESSE
12-24-2010, 04:40 PM
The first thing we need to do, is recycle. This will greatly reduce the problem. (Like France.)

Attention LE! 2D has been abducted and made to sound PC. How do I know? I keep agreeing with him.

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 04:45 PM
Attention LE! 2D has been abducted and made to sound PC. How do I know? I keep agreeing with him.

Don't get too excited.....I'm just talking about spent fuel rods. To heck with most of that other stuff! LOL



Actually......I'm a big fan of efficiency. This produces less waste, to decide what to do with. LOL

BENESSE
12-24-2010, 04:54 PM
Oh...
You're OK, after all. Well, I'm not gonna look a gift a$$ in the mouth--partial agreement is better than none.

Rick
12-24-2010, 04:57 PM
Oooh. When you said recycle I thought you meant....never mind.

They still end up with waste that no one wants in their backyard. You know. NIMBY syndrome. Besides, if the French thinks it's okay then I'm opposed to it no matter what the subject is. They are against it then I'm for it. Dang French.

BENESSE
12-24-2010, 05:01 PM
Dang French.

Yeah...except for their food, wine, Provence and Statue Of Liberty. But other than that, I hate their little mustache and berets.

Rick
12-24-2010, 05:03 PM
Yeah, but the Statue of Liberty was back when the French were kinda nice to us. Even then we didn't set it up for while 'cause we were thinking it was a Trojan Horse or in this case French Statue. You know what I mean.

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 05:05 PM
Yeah...except for their food, wine, Provence and Statue Of Liberty. But other than that, I hate their little mustache and berets.

...OH....and their fries! I love their fries!:laugh: LOL

Rick
12-24-2010, 05:06 PM
And bikinis :blushing:

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 05:10 PM
And bikinis :blushing:



I sure hope you're talking about them on beautiful ladies....and not you wearing them!!!:scared:

BENESSE
12-24-2010, 05:17 PM
Rick doesn't wear bikinis, you silly goose, he wears thongs.

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 05:20 PM
Rick doesn't wear bikinis, you silly goose, he wears thongs.

Oh....well, how about you?:D

BENESSE
12-24-2010, 05:24 PM
I like the French because they don't seem to have as many hang-ups as the rest of us.

2dumb2kwit
12-24-2010, 05:31 PM
I like the French because they don't seem to have as many hang-ups as the rest of us.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzBCBcLH_Lc&feature=related

BENESSE
12-24-2010, 05:44 PM
There IS a little difference for the discerning few...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJWJ8FtxxU0

Rick
12-24-2010, 09:29 PM
There is the little matter of them crying and begging for help, twice in the last century.

http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/am.php

http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/br.php

http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/ep.php

http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/lo.php

http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/no.php

http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/oa.php

http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/rh.php

http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/so.php

http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/sm.php

http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/su.php

That's approximately 47,000 graves in total. And they won't let us fly through their air space and accuse us of "occupying" Haiti. The nerve of those bums.

SARKY
12-25-2010, 07:59 PM
Ah heck, we'll argue later....right now I'm kinda laughing to myself, (not at myself, B.) that years ago, environmentalist were yelling "split wood, not atoms", now they're yelling "split atoms, not wood". Funny how things turn around, with time.

You realize, those are the same morons who were screaming "there's an ice age comming"
Is it time for the torches and pitchforks yet???

2dumb2kwit
12-25-2010, 08:01 PM
You realize, those are the same morons who were screaming "there's an ice age comming"
Is it time for the torches and pitchforks yet???

Yep...same ones.


and yes...it's about that time! LOL

Rick
12-25-2010, 11:45 PM
Just remember that torches release hydrocarbons into the atmosphere and add to the GHGs already there. Pitchforks will create medical waste that will require a hazmat cleanup. You guys are so 1700s ish. Get with the times. It's LED lights and tasers in this day and age. Sheeeesh.

2dumb2kwit
12-26-2010, 10:26 AM
Just remember that torches release hydrocarbons into the atmosphere and add to the GHGs already there. Pitchforks will create medical waste that will require a hazmat cleanup. You guys are so 1700s ish. Get with the times. It's LED lights and tasers in this day and age. Sheeeesh.

That just gave me the mental image of one of those wacko's flopping around, like a fish, from being tazed.

Thanks, Rick.
That brightened my day! LOL:bat:

Justin Case
12-26-2010, 11:24 AM
LOl,, " Dont Taze me Bro !"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE

2dumb2kwit
12-26-2010, 11:58 AM
LOl,, " Dont Taze me Bro !"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE

LOL....this one is still my favorite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95qZtwJNjxk

Justin Case
12-26-2010, 12:11 PM
LOL....this one is still my favorite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95qZtwJNjxk

I heard somewhere that this one was staged/fake,,, oh , I think i seen it on smash cuts..

ravenscar
12-26-2010, 12:36 PM
worryed bout the cost of power? make your own nuclear reactor (please dont)

ravenscar
12-26-2010, 12:40 PM
video link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0TlECFbjvM

2dumb2kwit
12-26-2010, 01:12 PM
video link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0TlECFbjvM

Yeah, but what that video doesn't tell you, is that you also need a turbo encabulator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLDgQg6bq7o&feature=related

ravenscar
12-26-2010, 01:31 PM
........what teh mess?...

Rick
12-26-2010, 03:02 PM
Chewbacca.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPENzKOmOl0&feature=related

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yellowcab
03-09-2026, 05:15 PM
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yellowcab
05-20-2026, 01:35 AM
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yellowcab
05-20-2026, 01:36 AM
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