View Full Version : Electric Ignition Muzzle-loader
hunter63
12-04-2010, 12:57 PM
Just the mention of an electric ignition muzzle-loader generally effects me like fingernails on a black board.
As a dyed in the wool traditionalist, I generally stay away from "the new fangled" in-line, thumb-hole synthetic stocked, 3X9 light reticle scopes and all the other "cool stuff' that makes muzzle-loader about as far away from each other as a lemon wood long bow to today's ultra compound bows.
That said, we still get back to a SHTF last resort firearm that powder and projectile "can" be self manufactured, even though it would be a major PITA.
Something that can keep you shooting long after your 10K of stocked ammo, brass, powder, primers has been exhausted.
My first option to primers would be a flintlock or even a match lock (smoldering rope), wheel lock (friction spark-er).
Seems that an electric ignition has become commercially available, in the form of the CVA "Electra", possibly others?
http://www.cva.com/rifles-electra.php
I have to admit that we had one of these at our Ducks Unlimited Banquet, on one of the Gun Board raffles, (which I usually am in charge of).
I didn't have any say as to type of firearm being offered, but as most all the guys know my feeling on modern muzzleloaders, that thought if was extremely funny, to have ME (old school), Sell the tickets.....(Nice guys)
Anyway, after giving it some thought (there I go again), using another alternative for ignition might not be as silly as it sounds?
I'm sure that there are home made versions around, which may or may not work dependably and safely....but might still be an option.
Now how does one find an Industrial Strength Lithium battery, after the SHTF?.... after all you would be competing with anyone under 30 for that battery....Hum, fire your weapon?....or run an App?
Thoughts?
randyt
12-04-2010, 01:34 PM
I have no thoughts other than the thought of a electric ignition muzzleloader makes my eyes glaze over. it just don't seem right. I feel the same way about inlines too, well pritnear.
First, I think if anything major happens I'm as likely to be a victim as the next guy. Second, if I DO last through it and manage to shoot up all my ammo and find that my rugged good looks won't get me very far then I'll just get food stamps and go on relief.
kyratshooter
12-04-2010, 02:04 PM
The Electronic ignition is a bit much even for the WMA in most states. They are not being well accepted.
Engineer the system around the batteries you have.
I quit worrying about batteries some time in the summer. Back in April I bought two $4 solar powered yard lights from Wall mart. The old ones were apparently shot.
I took the old ones into the shop and as an experiment I put a dollar Store AA battery in each one. These wonders go 4/$1. I set the solar heads on my workshop window still and left them there.
These solar powered yard lights charge the battery each day and the light drains it completely each night.
As of last night the lights were still shining brightly several hours into the night. Those twenty five cent batteries have now charged and run down each night for almost 8 months.
That being said I do not believe we will be plunged into aother "dark ages" with a loss of knowledge/technology for 500 years. Too many books around this go. There was very little stored information in 500ad and even fewer that could read said books. The average Roman administrator had our equil to a second grad education. Just enough to read the tax rolls. (So what has changed, right?)
If we do run out of things that go bang we will probably wind up in the lat middle ages mode, using well made bows and arrows for daily fare and BP cannon for defense. I have an excellent supply of old drive shafts that will make fine cannon barrels.
Of course you and I will be stoking pipeguns and zips through that era.
Your said "matchlock" can be made with zero moving parts. two moving parts with a spring is an excellent addition, but the burning rope limits your roaming rang, smokes and smells.
Eventually you will run out of caps for the caplock, even if you have a Tap-O-Cap, though it may take a few years, like a decade. That is a long time for the system to be down, thought whatever replaces it may not put making civilian guns and ammo high on their priority list.
Oddly enough, I grew up under the constant fear of politically engineered gun control that caused me more concern than mutually assured atomic distruction. I decided I might not be able to make my own big bang device but I could sure learn how to make my own firearms. I even spent a year in machine shop school learning how to use the machines needed and how to make things without those machines.
That led me into intensive testing fo a lot of materials adaptable to cartridge guns and eventually into building my own BP guns from scratch. By "scratch" I mean from things at Ace Hardware.
It also led be into primitive blacksmithing at a level where I can forge my own flintlocks. Those 6-9 moving parts take a couple of days to make by hand.
The lock on a rifle was the most complicated device most humans owned until clocks became common in the average home.
Of all the systems the flintlock is the best survival shooting tool at the primitive level. When the pioneer walked out of the house with his flintlock and shooting bag he was equipped to live until the powder ran out. Often he could live longer than that if he had learned well. I take my roll models from those first French/English/German wondereers of the eastern forest. A Courrier de Bouis named Cartier was first to transverse TN over a two year period, 1673-75. No gun, no cooking pot. He and some Shawnee friends wound up in Maryland.
Boone stayed in the woods where I live for two years without resupply. Simon Kenton had been here for half a decade before Boone arrived. Once, when Daniel and his brother Squire, got hopelessly lost in the area around Lake Cumberland the community sent Kasper Manskers to find them. He tracked them down and brought them home.
Enough history, we were talking guns.
Yes, I have learned a lot and I have run tests that gave me kniowledge I am afraid I will take to the grave with me and impart to no one. I know how much BP it takes to blow up just about any piece or type of piping when made into a gun barrel. I have tested them, not speculated on the outcome. I have purposely blown up cheap ML guns just to see what it would take to blow them up. I know what can be used instead of lead to cast bullets for those guns and I have learned how to make molds for the bullets. I even learned to knap flint, not to make arrowheads, but to make gun flints.
That said, I have more cartridge guns than I will ever use up. I have more ML guns than the local Gander Mountain and caps enough to last most of the way through a "New Dark Age". I have five different guns with one of Jim Chambers wonderlocks attached to their side. A couple more with second rate locks and one with a lock I hand made. there is also a good supply of flint in the local creek.
Battery powered systems are WAAAAY down my list of proprities. Besides, there is the EMP thing. it would truly be a shame to find out you ML rifle had been knocked out by a low yield neucular device controlled by a camel jocky with a cell phone.
randyt
12-04-2010, 02:36 PM
You guys remember the gyrojet? it took off like a lead balloon.
Ole WV Coot
12-06-2010, 08:14 PM
Inline? Electronic ignition? That just ain't right, period.
kyratshooter
12-07-2010, 03:37 PM
You guys remember the gyrojet? it took off like a lead balloon.
Yep, the wondergun of the '60s! It was the system that was to replace the cartridge gun as we knew it!
Bet we could make it work today. Install a lazer painter fire and forget system, radar lock with a J-ram guidance system.
Full auto fire at $100,000 per shot!
They will have it on "Furure Weapons" next week and everyone will be claiming it is in the hands of the infantry the next day.
Our present cartridge technology is getting old?
Hard for us to realize that guns were muzzle loaded for 800 years before the cartridge came along. They had no ignition system but a hot poker for 400 years, the slow match for 200 and the flint system ruled for almost 250 years.
The last commercially ordered flintlock firearms were contracted by the Hudson Bay Company in 1913. Can you imagine putting down your flintlock smoothbore in Canada's NW Territory, in 1914, to go fight in Europe using a Maxim machine gun?
Flintliocks were still being pieced together and traded in Africa and South America in the 1950s.
I often wonder what would have happened if the percussion cap had ruled for 200 years. In the Civil War they were alresdy showing a preferecne for the Sharps, Ballard, Maynard and Burnsides systems. They were the same thing as the muzzle loading Handirifles/Encores/Optimas of today.
Our in-lines are the next step in ML technology that skipped 150 years to happen.
The Gauss gun will be the next wonder weapon. Fired by multiple coils. No sound to give you away. Only the ouch! on the other end.
glockcop
12-10-2010, 10:32 AM
IMO an electric ignition muzzle loader is like a screen door on a submarine...Just doesn't make sense. For one thing it takes away from the whole "traditional" aspect of muzzle loading. Secondly, what part of the year is "hunting season"???? In the winter time. We all know what happens to batteries in extreme cold. Thirdly, the last thing in the world I want on a hunting trip is another piece of equipment with too may new fangled parts to fail. Lastly, the last time I checked moisture and the elements are no exactly good for electronics. Like I said, Just doesn't make sense to me. But hey, I guess somebody likes them since they keep making them. To each their own.
hunter63
12-10-2010, 11:28 AM
It seems that a lot of y'all do agree that ML's should have "some' tradition, and electric's on board is not the way.
Still looking for a .50 T/C Hawken flinter, just to make me feel better.
Old GI
12-10-2010, 11:33 AM
Just something else to go wrong.
kyratshooter
12-10-2010, 11:45 AM
Still looking for a .50 T/C Hawken flinter, just to make me feel better.
TC flinters are out there but they are hard to find and very expensive.
Do you have an extra CVA or Euroarms laying around? I can talk you through converting either of them to flint. It can be done for the cost of a new replacement lock and a White lightening vent liner. It is usually a 1/2 hour job with pocket knife and electric drill. New high grade flint lock will set you back $125 and the liner is $10 or some such.
TC Hawkin is going to set you back $850.
Gosh-Dog I did not realize they had gone up that much!
Looks like I have the wrong guns in the safe! $100 MN in the safe and an $800 TC in the corner of the workshop! I need to rearrange my priorities.
hunter63
12-10-2010, 01:02 PM
TC flinters are out there but they are hard to find and very expensive.
Do you have an extra CVA or Euroarms laying around? I can talk you through converting either of them to flint. It can be done for the cost of a new replacement lock and a White lightening vent liner. It is usually a 1/2 hour job with pocket knife and electric drill. New high grade flint lock will set you back $125 and the liner is $10 or some such.
TC Hawkin is going to set you back $850.
Gosh-Dog I did not realize they had gone up that much!
Looks like I have the wrong guns in the safe! $100 MN in the safe and an $800 TC in the corner of the workshop! I need to rearrange my priorities.
Funny you should this up, I did have a CVA Hawken that I got from my BIL after his untimely passing.
As I had a couple of T/C Hawkens in the case, I gave it to a hunting friend that helped my clean out, clean, and tote BIL stuff in prep for selling is house.
I had helped him build it from a kit years ago and had hunted with him when he killed his first deer with it.
As my friend wanted to get into the sport, and had hunted with us, BIL and I.
I thought it would be fitting to pass it along, as I knew we would be hunting together, and seeing the old "Kit gun" out again just seem like the thing to do.
Soooooo, the short version is, No I don't have one laying around at the moment....I guess I just give too much stuff away, LOL, if you know what I mean.
I have no fear that the right flinter will find me at some point....seems to be how things work.
Will keep the conversion offer in mind if the CVA or Euroarms suddenly come available.
P.S. I did call T/C customer service to inquire as to a conversion from caps to flint, maybe a different breach and lock?
Anyway, they said flattly "No, you can't do that". Which I took to mean, "well I believe you can, but it wouldn't be worth the trouble or cost".
Mischief
12-10-2010, 05:47 PM
I agree electronic ignition Is just Not right,however, remember,we now live in the age of Instant Gratification.
hunter63
12-10-2010, 07:11 PM
I agree electronic ignition Is just Not right,however, remember,we now live in the age of Instant Gratification.
LOL, Instant maybe, but the difference would be Nano-instant.
They don't make the Flash--Boom as seen in the movies, near as much as it seems.
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yellowcab
05-19-2026, 05:28 PM
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habeascorpus (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar (http://handradar.ru)
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keepagoodoffing (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)
yellowcab
05-19-2026, 05:29 PM
laterevent (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)stungun (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)
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