Survive!

[Rick]

You have just survived the crash of a small plane. Both the pilot and co-pilot were killed in the crash. It is mid-January , and you are in Northern Canada. The daily temperature is 25 below zero, and the night time temperature is 40 below zero. There is snow on the ground, and the countryside is wooded with several creeks criss-crossing the area. The nearest town is 20 miles away. You are dressed in city clothes appropriate for a business meeting. Your managed to salvage the following items:

A ball of steel wool
A small ax
A loaded .45-caliber pistol
Can of Crisco shortening
One Newspaper
Cigarette lighter (without fluid)
Extra shirt and pants
20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas
A sectional air map made of plastic
One quart of 100-proof whiskey
A compass
One Family-size chocolate bar

Your task is to list the above 12 items in order of importance for your survival. List the uses for each.

(I swiped this from another web site but I thought it was a fun little game. Once it runs for a while I'll link to the other site with the answers. If you want to cheat you can probably find it but what's the fun in that?)

[NCO]

My thoughts...

1. Cigarette lighter (without fluid) [can be used to strike sparks]
2. A small ax [gather firewood, make tools, do I need to continue.]
3. Extra shirt and pants [warmth]
4. 20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas [dig an "igloo", use this to insulate you from the ground]
5. A sectional air map made of plastic [even though your best bet is to stay put, knowing where you are will help you to determine where to put your signal fire and so on.]
6. A loaded .45-caliber pistol [cartridges can be emptied from powder for use of tinder, can be used for sound signals also, and for hunting obviously]
7. One quart of 100-proof whiskey [disinfect possible wounds.]
8. One Newspaper [more tinder]
9. A ball of steel wool [even more tinder]
10. Can of Crisco shortening
11. One Family-size chocolate bar
12. A compass [you can determine directions by other means]

[tsitenha]

ax..shelter, firewood
canvass..acts as a top and or side of shelter
lighter..light paper or steel wool ..(God fobid) wiskey with spark
paper..piece to be used a tinder, as a liner under cloths, to read to relieve stress
wiskey..as fuel, and to calm nerves as a beverage in measured amounts for calories and or medicinal use
extra shirts and pants to add to or change into if you are wet, carefull not to constrict
Crisco for calories
chocolate...calories for next morning if staying overnight
compass and map to orient yourself to the closest town, village
45 cal (this is Canada why are you carrying a pistol??, OK officer I'll go quietly thanks for the rescue...want a drink for the road.....did I say that:(

[Swamprat1958]

1.) 20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas
1A) over shoes/mukluks to cover street shoes and protect your feet and lower legs,
1B) poncho/parka type clothing,
1C)shelter
1D Use as a pack to carry other items while hiking to the town.
2.) A small ax
2A) shelter construction
2B) firewood
2C) cleaning game animals, etc.)
3.) Cigarette lighter (without fluid) (Sparks for starting fires.)
4.) A ball of steel wool (Tinder for use with lighter).
5.) Extra shirt and pants.
6.) One Newspaper Insulation when placed between layers of clothing.)
7.) One Family-size chocolate bar(used sparingly this and the can of Crisco are enough calories to keep your internal furnace going for a day or two hoping a search plane come for you. However, it should be enough calories to carry you through the 20 mile walk to town without other food).
8.) Can of Crisco shortening(food - extra calories if needed, fires,
9.) A compass (The nearest town is only 20 miles away)
10.) A sectional air map made of plastic (The nearest town is 20 miles away)
11.) A loaded .45-caliber pistol
11A) gathering food
11B) signaling if searchers are close
11C) protection
11D) as a last resort use as a method of starting a fire
12.) One quart of 100-proof whiskey
12A) disinfecting
12B) starting fires,

[Camp10]

I'm going to stay put near the plane and hope to be rescued. The plane should attract attention and if the plane has a pilot and co-pilot I'm going to assume it is commercial and has filed a flight plan so someone will notice soon that it is missing and will know where to look.

I'll need fire and shelter. I would probably start with fire. That makes the lighter, the steel wool and the ax the first three items. The extra clothes, canvas, and newspaper are the next three. I can make a shelter with the canvas and the extra clothes and newspaper can be worn or stuffed into the clothes I am already wearing for insulation.

I guess the chocolate and crisco would be next. They can provide energy if eaten, the can might be able to melt snow in for water.

The whiskey might just get me into trouble, If I am hurt then I might put it as a higher priority as a disinfectant. but I will put it next in the order.

That leaves the .45. I can use it to signal a rescue crew if I need to or if there is a need to protect myself. I'll put it next on the list.

I am staying put so the map and compass are just going to tempt me into wandering through the snow. I would put them last.

[Sarge47]

"Both the pilot and co-pilot were killed in the crash." Well, at least I have meat to eat.

"It is mid-January , and you are in Northern Canada." I'll try to find Wareagle or TBWN!

"The daily temperature is 25 below zero, and the night time temperature is 40 below zero." Brrrrr! I put on all of the clothes including the ones the pilot & co-pilot were wearing! They don't need them anymore! I also thank my lucky stars my "meat's" not going to spoil thanks to the temp staying well below freezing.

"There is snow on the ground, and the countryside is wooded with several creeks criss-crossing the area." Looks like I have plenty of water to go with my "meat."

"The nearest town is 20 miles away." Well, at least it's not 750 miles away! :innocent:

"You are dressed in city clothes appropriate for a business meeting." Hmmm, I must have found a better job! Let's see, where did I put my cell phone?

1.) A small ax. (To help me build a shelter using the wreckage of the airplane.)
2.) 20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas. (See #1.)
3.) One Newspaper. (For a fire.)
4.) Cigarette lighter (without fluid) (See #3.)
5.) A ball of steel wool (See #3.)
6.) Can of Crisco shortening (See #3. Also to smear on face to prevent possible frostbite. The Crisco can might make a good emergency "pot.")
7.) A loaded .45-caliber pistol (See #3. among other things. Bullets have gunpowder in them.)
8.) Extra shirt and pants (To stay warm but only after the work is done & I have cooled down.....along with the clothes from the dead guys.)
9.) A sectional air map made of plastic. (For direction finding if I have to self-rescue,)
10.) A compass (See #9.)
11.) One Family-size chocolate bar. (For energy, or to eat later when/if I start getting cold.)
12.) One quart of 100-proof whiskey (I don't drink so it's to help with the fire, or to lure Rick, Wareagle, or an Irishman to my aid.)

I had some fun with this, however I would also salvage what I could from the wrecked aircraft, like the battery & wires to help with the fire. Any seat cushions will make a nice, comfy mattress for sleeping, mucklucks, & a chair for sitting on so I don't get "piles." The aircraft should have had a 1st aid kit along with a fully equipped survival kit. There should also be an emergency transponder that started sending out a signal after we crashed so I would probably stay put. If the pilot or the co-pilot sent out an S.O.S. that would also help decide me to stay! :cool2:

I can't believe that there's no "survival knife" listed! What kind of a list is this, anyway? :innocent: :sneaky2:

[Winter]

First off, if it's 20 miles, I'm snowshoeing up and heading to town.


1.A small ax-cutting things
2. 20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas- shelter for first night, cloths for the trip out in the morning.
3. Extra shirt and pants
4. One Family-size chocolate bar
5. Can of Crisco shortening-food and fire fuel. Can also be used to protect skin from frostbite.
6. A compass- I'll have to keep moving in the AM so field expediant direction finding would slow me down too much.
7. Cigarette lighter (without fluid)- signaling and making sparks.
8. A ball of steel wool-tinder
9. One Newspaper-insulation and fire.
10.A loaded .45-caliber pistol- signaling and defense.
11. A sectional air map made of plastic-ground cover and clothing.
12.One quart of 100-proof whiskey- to celebrate when I get close to town.

[jgcoastie]

Odd list indeed...

Northern Canada... In business attire? In winter? The only suit I own is my dress uniform, so I have my doubts for the actual validity of this scenario from the get-go.

No first aid kit.
No food/water kit.
No EPIRB or PLB.
No wool blankets.
No survival knife.
No survival .22lr.
No flares.
No radio.

If this is the case:
#1 - Your pilots suck and they have no idea what they're doing.
#2 - You are a frigging moron for flying through Northern Canada in Jan. with nothing more than Sunday go-to-meetin' clothes on your back.
#3 - You did a really $hi++y job of picking a company to fly with.
#4 - You will learn from your mistake if you don't die first.

[Sarge47]

Odd list indeed...

Northern Canada... In business attire? In winter? The only suit I own is my dress uniform, so I have my doubts for the actual validity of this scenario from the get-go.

No first aid kit.
No food/water kit.
No EPIRB or PLB.
No wool blankets.
No survival knife.
No survival .22lr.
No flares.
No radio.

If this is the case:
#1 - Your pilots suck and they have no idea what they're doing.
#2 - You are a frigging moron for flying through Northern Canada in Jan. with nothing more than Sunday go-to-meetin' clothes on your back.
#3 - You did a really $hi++y job of picking a company to fly with.
#4 - You will learn from your mistake if you don't die first.

:clap: :thumbup:

[Winter]

These kinds of "tests" are often used it team building exercises.

Try to get 4 people sitting at a table to all agree on what order they go in. You end up with 100 uses for each thing.

[jgcoastie]

These kinds of "tests" are often used it team building exercises.

Try to get 4 people sitting at a table to all agree on what order they go in. You end up with 100 uses for each thing.

I went through a leadership class (funny how people think you can be taught to be a leader these days...) where something similar was discussed (I think we were trapped in the basement of a collapsed building). At the end of our allotted time to figure out the order; a self-proclaimed "expert" told us what we should have put down. On his list, one PB&J sandwich (split among 8 people) ranked higher than an axe, so I didn't really listen to anything he said after that.

[ericgarner118]

This is a pretty interesting game. I have very little experience with cold weather survival but I'll go ahead and give this a go:

1. A small ax: Used for chopping wood, a cutting tool, skinning, etc
2. 20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas: Can be used for shelter, extra clothing/insulation, can be turned into a pack to carry other things
3. Cigarette lighter (without fluid): can be used to throw spark to make fire
4. One Newspaper: Used for tinder for making a fire
5. Extra shirt and pants: Obviously for extra clothing
6. A ball of steel wool: Used for tinder for making a fire
7. A loaded .45-caliber pistol: Protection, signaling, fire starting and hunting
8. One Family-size chocolate bar: Calories for staying warm or conducting self rescue
9. A compass: Helping in self rescue
10. A sectional air map made of plastic: Used with the compass to help rescue
11. Can of Crisco shortening: Used for fuel for the fire and can be eaten for calories
12. One quart of 100-proof whiskey: Disinfectant and fire fuel

Like I said, I don't have any real experience with cold survival, but that's probably how I would use the stuff. Plus all the things I could scavenge off the plane and the pilot as well.

[RangerXanatos]

You have just survived the crash of a small plane. Both the pilot and co-pilot were killed in the crash. It is mid-January , and you are in Northern Canada. The daily temperature is 25 below zero, and the night time temperature is 40 below zero. There is snow on the ground, and the countryside is wooded with several creeks criss-crossing the area. The nearest town is 20 miles away. You are dressed in city clothes appropriate for a business meeting. Your managed to salvage the following items:

A ball of steel wool
A small ax
A loaded .45-caliber pistol
Can of Crisco shortening
One Newspaper
Cigarette lighter (without fluid)
Extra shirt and pants
20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas
A sectional air map made of plastic
One quart of 100-proof whiskey
A compass
One Family-size chocolate bar

Your task is to list the above 12 items in order of importance for your survival. List the uses for each.

(I swiped this from another web site but I thought it was a fun little game. Once it runs for a while I'll link to the other site with the answers. If you want to cheat you can probably find it but what's the fun in that?)

The coldest temperatures I've been through have been in the teens. So this is something new to me.

Extra shirt and pants (Not used to this cold and I'm not very protected to start with, I'm putting on extra clothes)
A small ax (Start chopping firewood for fire)
Cigarette lighter (without fluid) (Start fire)
A ball of steel wool (Lighter tinder)
One Newspaper (Make sure tinder catches)
20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas (Imprpmtu shelter or blanket to wrap in)
Can of Crisco shortening (Food calories and impromptu candle with canvas as the wick, bait)
One quart of 100-proof whiskey (Antiseptic and pour over green wood to make sure it will catch for signal fire)
One Family-size chocolate bar (Morale booster, bait)
A sectional air map made of plastic (Clothing insulation, direction)
A compass (know which way rescue would be coming, make fire in this direction)
A loaded .45-caliber pistol (Noise signal, hunt if need be, save last bullet for self)

Sit back and wait for rescue. Make sure the fire burns all night and day for heat and signal. If need to (doubtful), head for the town while making obvious signs of the direction I'm heading.

Love to see everyone's response.

[Rick]

Everyone has some good ideas. Some are pretty darn close to the answers that are given. I'm sure many won't agree with the all the answers. I questioned a couple but it's a game and does give you pause to think.

It is a team building exercise. I converted to individual for the forum. Just remember the temps! Oh, by the way, jg, you are in your dress uniform. You were on the way to a formal Canadian Coast Guard meeting, so there!

[Batch]

I'd first look at the plane. Is it safe from catching fire? Safe from sliding or having anything fall on it? If so I'll figure my shelter out first using the plane and the canvas. If not, I'll take the canvas and find a safe place to set up my shelter and fire.

I'll prepare my fire. But, mostly I won't need an axe. I want dead wood and it should be plentiful. I'll use steel wool with some of the newspaper and what ever dryish natural tinder I can find.

If you all have ever lit a fire with steel wool you may have felt kind of disappointed like I did when Dave lit his fire that way. I like to use it by blowing on it in a tinder bundle. It gets plenty hot to get dryish tinder going. I've never lit a fire with steel wool and a dead lighter. So, I'll be killing a lighter and lighting some steel wool.

I'm gonna sit this one right there and wait. I'll dress as best I can and stay out of the elements and in my fire warmed shelter as much as possible.

I'll look at my signal options. I have the gun. I can make a whistle with an axe and thin aluminum. I would like a reflector or signal mirror. I have a fire and would have a separate bundle ready for day and night signal fires.

I would work on water next. Probably have to use the crisco can for that.

The crisco, whiskey and av fuel can be used for lantern fuel.

[Winter]

Doe's 100 proof whiskey burn?

[RangerXanatos]

Doe's 100 proof whiskey burn?

I googled and the sources said yes. Either way, I'd try it first.

[Batch]

Doe's 100 proof whiskey burn?

Whether it'll burn and whether it'll take a spark are two different things.

I got some higher octane stuff lying around. :innocent:

I'll have to try . But, I know 120 will burn.

[Batch]

I tried the wet steel wool and the dry. I tried using that and newspaper to dry out other wet tinder. It ain't but 82 degrees out. So , I drank the whiskey. LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAjlgINpCDI

[crashdive123]

You have just survived the crash of a small plane. Both the pilot and co-pilot were killed in the crash. It is mid-January , and you are in Northern Canada. The daily temperature is 25 below zero, and the night time temperature is 40 below zero. There is snow on the ground, and the countryside is wooded with several creeks criss-crossing the area. The nearest town is 20 miles away. You are dressed in city clothes appropriate for a business meeting. Your managed to salvage the following items:

A ball of steel wool
A small ax
A loaded .45-caliber pistol
Can of Crisco shortening
One Newspaper
Cigarette lighter (without fluid)
Extra shirt and pants
20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas
A sectional air map made of plastic
One quart of 100-proof whiskey
A compass
One Family-size chocolate bar

Your task is to list the above 12 items in order of importance for your survival. List the uses for each.

(I swiped this from another web site but I thought it was a fun little game. Once it runs for a while I'll link to the other site with the answers. If you want to cheat you can probably find it but what's the fun in that?)

OK, here's my shot at it.

1. Lighter
2. Steel wool
3. Shirt and pants
4. Crisco
5. Canvass
6. Axe
7. Chocolate
8. Newspaper
9. Whiskey
10. .45
11. Compass
12. Map

[NCO]

It is great to see how we all have a little different ideas about what to prioritize. This reflects on how we think on this kind of situations! Very interesting.

[your_comforting_company]

Extra shirt and pants
20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas
reduce exposure while you get your Shtuff together..

Cigarette lighter (without fluid)
A ball of steel wool
Can of Crisco shortening
A small ax
crisco in the can is the lamp, steel wool for wick, lighter to light it, and use the lamp to dry tinder to build a fire. wood is procured with the axe. dead twigs and limbs nipped into kindling sized pieces.

A sectional air map made of plastic
A compass
to know which way help is coming, and where resources are, assuming it is aerial photography.. not sure exactly what a "sectional air map" is..
It might be possible to hike out and this will certainly help if you know where you are... most likely you don't, you only know that you are somewhere between point A and B.

One Family-size chocolate bar
save this for when I'm really hungry and need some energy. The wrapper is a possible container for melting snow.

One quart of 100-proof whiskey
Could be fuel... but you have a lot of crisco and you already have a fire going.. Alcohol won't freeze, and drinking some will actually warm you up a little.
Probably the best use would be to sterilize the water you got from the snow, since you can't really boil it unless you waste your crisco. Of course those oragami artists have one up on you, unless you know how to fold the next item.
*once the whiskey is gone the bottle can be used to boil

One Newspaper
Definately not for reading.. the resulting depression would certainly make use of the last item... better to use as insulation from the ground, if you haven't already used the axe to secure bedding. Probably the best use would be to fold a paper cup for boiling or melting snow over the lamp. I believe Winnie posted a link on folding paper plant pots.. there ya go.

A loaded .45-caliber pistol
A critter might walk by.. or another predator exploring the commotion looking for a free meal. dual purpose. you've got 9 shots at getting some food and/or protecting yourself.. save the last bullet for after you read the paper.. especially if you missed with the other 9 shots.

Not sure there is a "right" answer; we all see our resources in different ways. That's my take on it BUT, I think there are elements not included in the scenario... like stripping the plane of all usable resources, including the dead bodies. I, personally, am not above cannibalism. In those temperatures, meat would last till spring thaw. The victims may have knives, extra socks, jackets, candy bars, plane wiring for cordage, seat cushions for bedding.. all sorts of things. Certainly there are loose panels to use as heat reflectors, etc.
The OP limited us to those few items, when there are actually many many more items to be of use in a plane crash.. You just have to look!

It also leaves a lot to assumptions, like others have pointed out. First of all, if it's 25 degrees BELOW zero, I'm not going in the first place, and If you do manage to drag me there, teeth and claws still attached, I'm going to be bundled up like a wooly mammoth.. I put more clothes on when temps get below 70. Sorry I'm warmblooded. That alone put the scenario out for me. I also assume this is a general use flight path, and another plane will fly in the general area. It is a business meeting after all, right? Nobody would wear a suit in those temps unless they were kissing somebody's butt, so... smoke signals will do a world of good and you will very likely be found. People are obviously expecting you and they will be looking.

I tried to put them in order of importance for me and explain their uses as I see fit. That's my attempt at playing along, for what it's worth.

[crashdive123]

OK, here's my shot at it.

1. Lighter My biggest problem is the cold. I will need fire - no ifs, ands or buts about it. Signal fire will be nice too, but gotta live long enough for that to be worthwhile
2. Steel wool Maybe I can find tinder, maybe I can't. Steel wool will ensure that I have tinder that works in conjuntion with the lighter
3. Shirt and pants More stuff to insulate me from the elements.
4. Crisco Help with chapped lips and skin, can for cooking or boiling water/melting snow, lid for signaling
5. Canvass Shelter
6. Axe Firewood collection, building things, cutting tons of pine boughs or other materials for insulation.
7. Chocolate Everybody loves chocolate. - good quick energy
8. Newspaper Insulation inside clothing, rolled up splint, fire starting
9. Whiskey Fuel, water bottle
10. .45 Protection, food procurement, signaling,
11. Compass I ain't going anywhere.
12. Map Maybe I could plan my next trip:innocent:

I guess I should probably include my reasoning. Maybe its good, or maybe its flawed, but at least you'll know what it was. It's in red.

[SARKY]

A ball of steel wool
A small ax
A loaded .45-caliber pistol
Can of Crisco shortening
One Newspaper
Cigarette lighter (without fluid)
Extra shirt and pants
20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas
A sectional air map made of plastic
One quart of 100-proof whiskey
A compass
One Family-size chocolate bar

1: Axe
2: lighter
3: steel wool
4: compass
5: map
6: news paper
7: extra clothes
8: canvas tarp
9: chocolate bar
10: shortning
11: pistol
12: whiskey

Using 1-3 get a fire started for heat and signal.
strip the dead of all usable items including clothing
4-5 figure out where I am
6: use the news paper to stuff into clothes for insulation
7: extra clothes for warmth
8: canvas tarp for shelter for now and if need be foot coverings and a poncho
9- 10 caloric intake
11: just in case
12: to give to my rescuers

[SARKY]

Extra shirt and pants
20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas
reduce exposure while you get your Shtuff together..

Cigarette lighter (without fluid)
A ball of steel wool
Can of Crisco shortening
A small ax
crisco in the can is the lamp, steel wool for wick, lighter to light it, and use the lamp to dry tinder to build a fire. wood is procured with the axe. dead twigs and limbs nipped into kindling sized pieces.

A sectional air map made of plastic
A compass
to know which way help is coming, and where resources are, assuming it is aerial photography.. not sure exactly what a "sectional air map" is..
It might be possible to hike out and this will certainly help if you know where you are... most likely you don't, you only know that you are somewhere between point A and B.

One Family-size chocolate bar
save this for when I'm really hungry and need some energy. The wrapper is a possible container for melting snow.

One quart of 100-proof whiskey
Could be fuel... but you have a lot of crisco and you already have a fire going.. Alcohol won't freeze, and drinking some will actually warm you up a little.
Probably the best use would be to sterilize the water you got from the snow, since you can't really boil it unless you waste your crisco. Of course those oragami artists have one up on you, unless you know how to fold the next item.
*once the whiskey is gone the bottle can be used to boil

One Newspaper
Definately not for reading.. the resulting depression would certainly make use of the last item... better to use as insulation from the ground, if you haven't already used the axe to secure bedding. Probably the best use would be to fold a paper cup for boiling or melting snow over the lamp. I believe Winnie posted a link on folding paper plant pots.. there ya go.

A loaded .45-caliber pistol
A critter might walk by.. or another predator exploring the commotion looking for a free meal. dual purpose. you've got 9 shots at getting some food and/or protecting yourself.. save the last bullet for after you read the paper.. especially if you missed with the other 9 shots.

Not sure there is a "right" answer; we all see our resources in different ways. That's my take on it BUT, I think there are elements not included in the scenario... like stripping the plane of all usable resources, including the dead bodies. I, personally, am not above cannibalism. In those temperatures, meat would last till spring thaw. The victims may have knives, extra socks, jackets, candy bars, plane wiring for cordage, seat cushions for bedding.. all sorts of things. Certainly there are loose panels to use as heat reflectors, etc.
The OP limited us to those few items, when there are actually many many more items to be of use in a plane crash.. You just have to look!

It also leaves a lot to assumptions, like others have pointed out. First of all, if it's 25 degrees BELOW zero, I'm not going in the first place, and If you do manage to drag me there, teeth and claws still attached, I'm going to be bundled up like a wooly mammoth.. I put more clothes on when temps get below 70. Sorry I'm warmblooded. That alone put the scenario out for me. I also assume this is a general use flight path, and another plane will fly in the general area. It is a business meeting after all, right? Nobody would wear a suit in those temps unless they were kissing somebody's butt, so... smoke signals will do a world of good and you will very likely be found. People are obviously expecting you and they will be looking.

I tried to put them in order of importance for me and explain their uses as I see fit. That's my attempt at playing along, for what it's worth.

I've never seen steel wool used as a wick, does that actually work????

[crashdive123]

I've never seen steel wool used as a wick, does that actually work????

I did a video today on various tinders, and believe it would burn too fast, even if coated with Crisco. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13156 (post 13) I could be wrong though.

[Sarge47]

A ball of steel wool
A small ax
A loaded .45-caliber pistol
Can of Crisco shortening
One Newspaper
Cigarette lighter (without fluid)
Extra shirt and pants
20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas
A sectional air map made of plastic
One quart of 100-proof whiskey
A compass
One Family-size chocolate bar

1: Axe
2: lighter
3: steel wool
4: compass
5: map
6: news paper
7: extra clothes
8: canvas tarp
9: chocolate bar
10: shortning
11: pistol
12: whiskey

Using 1-3 get a fire started for heat and signal.
strip the dead of all usable items including clothing
4-5 figure out where I am
6: use the news paper to stuff into clothes for insulation
7: extra clothes for warmth
8: canvas tarp for shelter for now and if need be foot coverings and a poncho
9- 10 caloric intake
11: just in case
12: to give to my rescuers
If I have a choice of one other person to be with me on this I'm choosing Sarky & YCC...no one else mentioned "strip the dead..." They did forget to mention going through the airplane for salvageable stuff, but if I'm with him I'll remind them. :sneaky2:

[crashdive123]

I took the scenario as you had these twelve items and that was it. Otherwise I would (as Sourdough has said on numerous occasions) stay with the aircraft and fashion my shelter around it, using wiring, fuel, seat cushions, bodies, etc.

[rwc1969]

I don't have time to list the items, I'm too busy gathering tinder, emptying out a cartridge, sparking a fire to stay warm, salvaging a piece of wreckage for a skillet and pot, pounding it into shape with the axe or something, adding crisco and human to the skilet and snow to the pot.

Hopefully I don't get powder burns, and hopefully there's enough wreckage to be a good start for a waterproof and windproof shelter.

Thank God it's below freezing as I don't have to worry about preserving the 100+pounds of meat, salt and storage containers I've been blessed with.

i guess I should now start a signal fire with atire or seats, rubber, plastic from the wreckage.

[kyratshooter]

Use the lighter and steel wool to spark a fire.

Wait for dark and -40.

When dark -40 arrives

eat the chocolate

Drink the whisky

Shoot self in the head with the .45

I am a southern boy, it's the only option.

[your_comforting_company]

@sarge:
The victims may have knives, extra socks, jackets, candy bars, plane wiring for cordage, seat cushions for bedding.. all sorts of things. Certainly there are loose panels to use as heat reflectors, etc.
Always remember: Everything is a resource!

@sarky: I don't know if it would work or not for a wick... I'll have to try it. newspaper might also work, but I don't think it would hold an ember well enough. Judging by Crash's video and the way the "ember" persists in the steel wool, it should, theoretically. Might need to be twisted more tightly, to keep from burning so fast and only light one end.. something I'll have to toy with.

[Camp10]

no one else mentioned "strip the dead..." :sneaky2:

Thats because the OP said
"Your managed to salvage the following items:"
I took that to mean that everything else was lost.

[your_comforting_company]

Like I said.. it left a lot to assumptions. I cannot assume that everything else in the crash just "vanished".. therefore there a many more useful items not mentioned in that list, that are mentioned elsewhere in the post.. inherent items.. Unless I was a jerk and got kicked out of the plane instead of wrecking, there will be lots more stuff available than 12 items. There are also all the natural resources around that weren't mentioned, but most everyone used the axe to gather wood, which was not in the list of items either.

I find we all agree, exposure and making a fire are top priority, however you procure it. while hydration and food are close to the bottom (just above suicide).
I think that's what the post was about.. priorities!

[Rick]

You only have what you have. The rest of the plane and all other contents were smashed to smitherines, covered by dirt when it embedded in the ground, burned that portion beyond all recognition, and you found a Do Not Enter sign when you tried to access that portion of the plane.

No assumptions. You have what you have. Simple as that.

[NCO]

You know what made me happy?
In this scenario I don't have a mora!!!

[Rick]

You are a sick, sick, man.

[NCO]

Like the movie Zombieland teaches us: "You gotta enjoy the little things."

[wareagle69]

a couple of things here
one- a pistol for protection in the canadian north in the winter? from what???
2-alcohol in the winter will kill you period-it is a vasodialater which means it opens your consrticted blood veesels releasing warm blood to your extremities, warm blood that your core needs to keep you from going into hypothermia thats why your blood vessels contstrict to preserve the warmth in your system, sure it may make you FEEL warm but in a survival scenario IT WILL KILL YOU
ps
you are not going to walk out- imagine walking in even a foot of snow that is not packed down, how awkward that is as your feet keep pushing down and getting soaked now you risk hypothermia and frostbite if you are lucky to make it 10 miles in that condition you are lucky which means you are spending the night in -40 temps soaking wet and calorie depleted.
stay with the plane wait for rescue...
also prepare for the -40 night w/o winter clothing, this is something that i practice heavily and still have a hard time with especially my feet, it usually turns more into an enduraence event just keeping the circulation flowing thru the night and then trying to sleep during the day

[Winnie]

Don't laugh. Here's my effort.
Tarp. I’d use this to wrap around me as a sleeping bag and shelter.
Crisco and newspaper. Smear a thin layer of Crisco on sheets of newspaper and then twist to make a wick/ candle/ firelighter. I’d also use some of the newspaper as insulation on my person.

Firelighter, steel wool, axe, whiskey. Not sure if it would work but I’m assuming it’s a zippo type lighter if it needs fluid. I’d try filling it with some of the whiskey to get a flame. Then use the newspaper wicks to get a fire going with some of the wood from round about. If the lighter idea doesn’t work, then I’d try catching a spark onto the steel wool. And try fire lighting that way.

Crisco tin would come in useful as a little billy to melt and boil either snow or creek water in. Chocolate, good morale booster.

Pistol. Out in the Canadian forests there likely to be things higher up the food chain than me. Also could be used as a signalling device?

I’m not confident enough to consider walking out so the map and compass would be for information only.

[Sam]

Hello all, I am gonna give this a try. I will explain my reasons, so please give me feed back on this.

A ball of steel wool
A small ax
A loaded .45-caliber pistol
Can of Crisco shortening
One Newspaper
Cigarette lighter (without fluid)
Extra shirt and pants
20x20 piece of heavy-duty canvase of plastic tarp.
A sectonal map
One quart of 100-proof whiskey
A compass
One Family-size chocolate bar

1. Extra clothes. I need the insulation.
2. Tarp. I will need it for a wind, rain/snow shelter.
3. Lighter. I need it for firestarting.
4. The small ax. I am gonna need to improve my shelter, gather wood and all the usual stuff.
5. Newspaper. I will stuff my shoes and clothes for extra warmth, I can use some for tinder.
6. Can of Crisco, skin protection, firestarting, calories.
7. Quart bottle of wiskey, I am gonna pour it on some firewood and get the fire going. And use the bottle to boil water. (Go ahead and grab your pitchforks.)
8. Candy bar. Calories of course. And I might run into Wildwoman out there.
9. Sectional map. The plastic is nice to sit on to stay dry. Or to make fire.
10. Steel wool. Firestarting.
11. Pistol. Signaling, firestarting, food gathering? I am with WE on this one.
12. Compass. I don't see walking out. I mean the gouge in the ground from the plane crash will be more noticeable than me on the ground.

I hope I can make it based on my choices.
-Sam

[nell67]

Don't laugh. Here's my effort.
Tarp. I’d use this to wrap around me as a sleeping bag and shelter.
Crisco and newspaper. Smear a thin layer of Crisco on sheets of newspaper and then twist to make a wick/ candle/ firelighter. I’d also use some of the newspaper as insulation on my person.

Firelighter, steel wool, axe, whiskey. Not sure if it would work but I’m assuming it’s a zippo type lighter if it needs fluid. I’d try filling it with some of the whiskey to get a flame. Then use the newspaper wicks to get a fire going with some of the wood from round about. If the lighter idea doesn’t work, then I’d try catching a spark onto the steel wool. And try fire lighting that way.

Crisco tin would come in useful as a little billy to melt and boil either snow or creek water in. Chocolate, good morale booster.

Pistol. Out in the Canadian forests there likely to be things higher up the food chain than me. Also could be used as a signalling device?

I’m not confident enough to consider walking out so the map and compass would be for information only.


Novel idea Winnie! I have a couple old zippo's may have to try this and see if it would work.

[Rick]

Everyone has done a pretty good with this. Some of you are pretty close to the author's solution. Remember, this is just one man's opinion so you may or may not agree with him. So, without further ado, here is the answer....

http://www.scoutingweb.com/scoutingweb/subpages/survivalgame.htm

[letslearntogether47]

I would say that this would be a short term survival.
After all you are dressed for a meeting and the plane never arrived.
I would stay with the plane for at least 48 hrs.

#1)20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas
(the temperature would be a major factor.If hypothermia were to happen all other tool would be useless without any dexterity.So feet and my body would be wrapped asap with this canvas.Possibly later used for shelter.)
#2)Extra shirt and pants(again,cold would be a big factor.So I'd either put these on traditional or make something with it to help cover me.)
#3)A small ax(this cold be used to dismantle the plane,get seat covers,cushioning(snow shoes),wires,mirrors for signaling...ect.
#4)Cigarette lighter (without fluid)
A spark on the 50% alcohol soaked news paper would get a flame.
#5)One quart of 100-proof whiskey
(used to start a fire,burns fast though)
#6)One Newspaper
(some used to get fire,tinder,smeared with the Crisco and rolled tightly create a slow burning torch)
#7)Can of Crisco shortening
(animal fat equals a low burning fire)
#8)A ball of steel wool
(tinder,or used for fire in conjunction with the planes battery as a direct short)
#9)A loaded .45-caliber pistol
(fire from gunpowder firing the cap,signaling with 3 shots,could be heard 20 miles away,protection against predictors)
#10)A compass
(Navigation)
#11)A sectional air map made of plastic
(same as above)
#12)One Family-size chocolate bar
(quick energy at best)

[letslearntogether47]

Shucks.........a little late.:blushing:

[Aurelius95]

@sarge: Always remember: Everything is a resource!

@sarky: I don't know if it would work or not for a wick... I'll have to try it. newspaper might also work, but I don't think it would hold an ember well enough. Judging by Crash's video and the way the "ember" persists in the steel wool, it should, theoretically. Might need to be twisted more tightly, to keep from burning so fast and only light one end.. something I'll have to toy with.

Couldn't you cut a stip of the canvas to use as a wick? You've got a 20'x20'. That's a lot of canvas!

[crashdive123]

Rick - was there an evaluation of the items so that we can see if our plans were well thought out or flawed?

[Winter]

http://www.scoutingweb.com/scoutingweb/subpages/survivalgame.htm

[NCO]

Well, I didn't do too bad...

[Rick]

Scroll down after the scenario and your see the rankings. He lists each item in order of priority and why he numbered it the way he did.

[NCO]

Been there done that. I do actually disagree with the scores. I strongly believe that I was right.

[Rick]

I don't know (shaking head). You're wrong about Moras so what makes you think you're right about this? tsk, tsk, tsk.

[Sarge47]

It's all "moot" anyway as I don't climb into one of those "itty-bitty Buddy Holly" airplanes; I wouldn't go to Canada, & if I was stupid enough to do so anyway, I would NOT be dressed in busness attire! I'd be dressed for the worst & have my backpack of survival gear in my lap! My 1st & hard-fast Survival rule is always S.T.O.P.! So that means staying put! So I wouldn't be going anywhere. The idea of nothing else being available is highly unrealistic; if I was able to survive, so would a lot of other things, like airplane parts, dead bodies, etc.. But then, that's the trouble with hypothetical scenarios, they always seem to be unrealistic. :cool2:

[cyc79]

I won't repeat what everyone else has said .I will say though that at those temperatures & not dressed properly you have very very little time to do anything before your hands become useless.Once your ability to make fire at -40 is gone,you are not going to be in this world as long as you'd like.
And at those temps a huge amount of wood is needed to get through the night.
Fire,wood,shelter are priority.

[NCO]

I don't know (shaking head). You're wrong about Moras so what makes you think you're right about this? tsk, tsk, tsk.

Rick, you are confused! You are wrong about me being wrong about the moras!! tok, tok, tok.
And as the rules of chemistry say, that as I'm right now, I'm always right.:smash:

[RangerXanatos]

if I was able to survive, so would a lot of other things, like airplane parts, dead bodies, etc..

Just how do dead bodies survive? :innocent:

[Camp10]

Just how do dead bodies survive? :innocent:

Zombies:innocent:

[RangerXanatos]

Zombies:innocent:

So that's what the .45 is for! :innocent:

[Rick]

The pistol provides a sound-signaling device. (The international distress signal is 3 shots fired in rapid succession). There have been numerous cases of survivors going undetected because they were too weak to make a loud enough noise to attract attention. The butt of the pistol could be used as a
hammer, and the powder from the shells will assist in fire building. By placing a small bit of cloth in a cartridge emptied of its bullet, one can start a fire by firing the gun at dry wood on the ground. The pistol also has some serious disadvantages. Anger, frustration, impatience, irritability, and lapses of rationality may increase as the group awaits rescue. The availability of a lethal weapon is a danger to the group under these conditions. Although a pistol could be used in hunting, it would take an expert marksman to kill an animal with it. Then the animal would have to be transported to the crash site, which could prove difficult to impossible depending on its size.

[Swamprat1958]

After a little more time to think about this and to review the link and what the author said about the scenario; I have a few questions and problems with the exercise.

1) If the plane was totally destroyed and all that remains are the 12 items listed what chance would a search plane have of finding the wreckage in a heavily forested area?
2) The first priority would be starting a fire for warmth and as a signal then constructing a shelter with part of the tarp. Next should be putting on the extra clothes and stuffing them with newspaper for extra insulation. After that use the tarp to make mukluks and a parka/poncho for further protection from the elements.
3) The author’s premise that the compass and map are “dangerous” and you should stay with the plane becomes dangerous in and of itself after 48 hours. In extreme cold you internal furnace will require a lot of calories to maintain body temperature. IMHO if you are under heavy forest canopy and would be hard to see from the air it would be critical to move in the direction of the nearest town and try to find a clearing or forest opening where it would be easier to be seen. After doing so wait for approximately 48 hours while constantly maintaining the signal fire. If no search parties have seen you during that amount of time I think it would be time to consider using the map and compass to walk the 20 miles to town. Otherwise your diminishing strength and food supply (chocolate and Crisco) might make it impossible to get out of the situation.

That is my 2 cents worth, any other thoughts?

[Sarge47]

The pistol provides a sound-signaling device. (The international distress signal is 3 shots fired in rapid succession). There have been numerous cases of survivors going undetected because they were too weak to make a loud enough noise to attract attention. The butt of the pistol could be used as a
hammer, and the powder from the shells will assist in fire building. By placing a small bit of cloth in a cartridge emptied of its bullet, one can start a fire by firing the gun at dry wood on the ground. The pistol also has some serious disadvantages. Anger, frustration, impatience, irritability, and lapses of rationality may increase as the group awaits rescue. The availability of a lethal weapon is a danger to the group under these conditions. Although a pistol could be used in hunting, it would take an expert marksman to kill an animal with it. Then the animal would have to be transported to the crash site, which could prove difficult to impossible depending on its size.
Well now, let's see:

(After killing off the whiskey.) "Oh look! It's a rescue plane. I'll fire 3 shots from my trusty old .45 to alert them!"

"BANG! BANG! BANG!"

(Airplane engine starts to cough & sputter.) What the...why is there smoke coming out of the engine? (Plane starts to plummet to earth.) "Oh no!"

"CRASH! BOOM!" (Rescue plane explodes.)


"Uh-oh! Oh no! Sorry, My bad! My bad! Oh Crap! Hmmm, wonder if there's any salvageable whiskey on that plane?" :innocent: :sneaky2:

Seriously, it is never wise to fire any fire-arm up into the air as gravity is still gravity & the bullets have to return to earth somewhere. I've heard that some fire-arm safety courses teach this. :cool2:

[Rick]

As I said, it's one man's opinion. The real concern that I would have is hypothermia, whether I stay put or travel. If I'm dressed in street clothes (that probably means no boots) then I'm going to have real reservations about hiking 20 miles in snow across rivers even for 20 miles. In those temps I'll have frostbite before I make the first mile and will probably be found when some biologist examines the wolf scat he collected.

[Winter]

Fill your street shows with crisco, wrap your feet and legs in the canvas. Water proof the canvas with more crisco. You'll be fine.



I sure as heck wouldn't sit around with a bunch of suits waiting to be rescued. I'd be suicidal in minutes listening to the city folk whine.



Hahahaha

[Justin Case]

and will probably be found when some biologist examines the wolf scat he collected.

"Hey Look, Its got Ricks nose" LOL

[klickitat]

#1 20 x 20 ft. piece of heavy-duty canvas. I can build outer clothing to get me to shelter.
#2 Extra shirt and pants Same as #1
These first two are important so that I can travel away from the crash and break the wind. Clothing is the first part of shelter.
#3 Cigarette lighter (without fluid) FIRE
#4 One quart of 100-proof whiskey FIRE
These two are my second area and are related to fire and the whiskey container can be used for water later.
#5 Axe tool on the go for building a shelter
#6 Can of Crisco shortening, High in Calories, fire, water proofing
#7 Compass to get the heck out of there.
#8 A sectional air map made of plastic. Same as #7
#9 One Family-size chocolate bar. More of a Mental pick up but still has calories and is important for mental state.
#10 .45 caliber handgun. Signaling, hunting and self protection.

[klickitat]

I posted my list then went back read everyone else' picks and then read the article.

I learned two things: Everyone else is wrong and I am an arrogant SOB.

[Swamprat1958]

I posted my list then went back read everyone else' picks and then read the article.

I learned two things: Everyone else is wrong and I am an arrogant SOB.

I suffer from that same affliction quite often.

[Ken]

Maybe I'm missing something, 'cause my answers are a bit different than most, but I ain't gonna' be walking to town, because I'd freeze to death (especially after getting wet crossing those streams, because chances are they ain't gonna' be frozen solid, and getting wet in that environment is certain death) on the way, and probably miss the search party that would be looking for the lost plane in a few hours.

So I'll say..........

1. Cigarette lighter - still sparks well enough to start a fire

2. Ball of steel wool - fire starting - fire would be most essential here (and the steel wool would work better with some melted crisco - see below - and crisco can be warmed by placing a bit in your mouth or against your body)

3. Can of Crisco shortening - loads of uses - fire, signalling, chap stick substitute, water container, cooking pot substitute, .........

4. Extra shirt and pants (plus the pilots' clothes) - added warmth. Clothing IS shelter.

5. Newspapers - again, firestarting (can also be used as insulation)

6. 20 x 20 foot piece of canvas - tarp, windbreak, or ground cover

7. Small ax - wood chopping/gathering, shelter making, etc.

8. Family size chocolate bars - food (carbs) - energy value and easy to digest

9. Loaded .45-caliber pistol - primarily for signalling, some value against smaller predators

10. Quart of 100 proof whiskey - fire starter, wound care. Don't drink it unless you like speeding up the hypothermia process. :cold:

11. Sectional air map made of plastic - ground cover, maybe?

12. Compass - useless in this scenario

[Ken]

A few more observations..........

I'll assume that that since those items were salvaged, the plane wasn't consumed by fire after the crash.

So...........

The plane can probably still be used as shelter. The canvas can be used to seal any holes in the windshield/fuselage to cut down on wind entering. The canvas can also be used as a blanket for additional warmth. Alternatively, sections of the plane can be removed with the ax and used as reflectors for fire/heat.

The pilots won't be needing their clothes anymore, will they? :innocent:

There's likely to be fuel available for fires, signalling, etc.

Is the radio on the plane still working?

If the plane has tires (and not skis) those tires will burn quite nicely and generate lots of signal smoke.

Crisco can still be eaten in small quantities without risking digestive problems. Usually, only protein is avoided in survival situations, but even then only when water is a concern (life raft survival).

Does anyone have a good recipe for "braised pilot?" :innocent:

Can I eat the Slim Jims I always carry with me?

The .45 will come in quite handy if Sarge lands with the rescue team.

[trax]

People, he said in northern Canada, all you have to do is pull that .45 out and the RCMP will show up to ask to see your permit.

[canid]

see, and if it where one of the federal wildernesses in california, you'd need only put something even resembling a hook and line in the water.

[Ken]

People, he said in northern Canada, all you have to do is pull that .45 out and the RCMP will show up to ask to see your permit.


see, and if it where one of the federal wildernesses in california, you'd need only put something even resembling a hook and line in the water.

Okay, okay. In Massachusetts, all you'd need to do was get behind the wheel of that crashed plane with that bottle of whiskey in your hands.........

[Rick]

In Indiana you could draw a picture of a deer on the side of the plane and shine a light at it. Presto! DNR.

Or....sit down and play solitaire. The minute you do someone will show up and say, "Play the red seven on the black eight."

[Alaskan Survivalist]

In Alaska we have a name for this scenario. Crashing your vehicle 20 miles from no where at -40 below and getting home half naked with a quart of whiskey in you is what we call saturday night.

[Sourdough]

In Alaska we have a name for this scenario. Crashing your vehicle 20 miles from no where at -40 below and getting home half naked with a quart of whiskey in you is what we call saturday night.

Welcome Back, Alaskan Survivalist.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

“A little knowledge is a dangerous thing”. Someone has to set them straight.
Whiskey will save you for the same reasons people think it will kill them and a few more. Like most things it helps if you know how to use it. It does increase blood flow to extremities, that’s a good thing. Warm blood flowing through them keeps them warm. This will have a cooling effect on your core but it would be more accurate to think of it as an “Internal furnace” like swamp rat mentioned. A furnace needs fuel and not only does whiskey have calories it prevents other calories from being absorbed by the body as fat and is turned immediately into heat. Physical exertion burns calories and builds more heat. Just like my diesel truck it can sit at an idle, go no where, and never warm up or pour the coal to it, build enough heat in the motor to warm the cab and get somewhere. Regulating core temperature is a fundamental of arctic survival done by layered clothing, physical exertion and food in your system ready to be burned. Add a Hershey bar and a quart whiskey to normal levels and it’s more than enough to cover twenty miles. I work outdoors in Alaska and it is hard to work in restrictive clothing. It’s around -20 in this picture. Note the sleeveless vest with a sweater, no hat, monkey faced gloves and vest is partially unzipped to cool me down. It’s because the blood pumping in my veins is warm.

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/IMG_0902.jpg

A keen eye will also notice I am wearing 100% cotton duck bibs and vest. Before someone says “Cotton Kills” look into Carharts line of Arctic work clothing. There is more to understand about cotton also. It’s all you see on the job up here for a reason.

[Winter]

I concur AS.

Minus 20 is nothing. Doing Infantry Ops in minus 40 all you had on was goretex parka and pants and polypro longjohns. The parka is completely unzipped and you are still sweating.

Cotton kills if you are soaked in sweat (mistake one) and sitting down not working (mistake two).

[BENESSE]

Nice to see you back, AS. Hope you stick around for a while.
btw...I notice in you pic. no head/ear cover. How do you manage that in -20. From personal experience in only -10, I had to have something on my head and ears. Without that I felt the the chill going straight to my brain.

[crashdive123]

The coldest that I've camped in was -25F. As long as I was busy and not sitting around, I was relatively warm and had to remove/add layers from time to time. With no physical activity +25F can be uncomfortable for me.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Nice to see you back, AS. Hope you stick around for a while.
btw...I notice in you pic. no head/ear cover. How do you manage that in -20. From personal experience in only -10, I had to have something on my head and ears. Without that I felt the the chill going straight to my brain.

Thanks Benesse, I tried to explain I keep my blood warm. Notice my face is red from the blood pumping through it. That's how I stay warm. When I work hard I have to feel the cold on parts of me to keep from over heating. Living in Alaska over half a century has acclimated my body to the environment that has a lot to do with it but also having learned over that same time how to regulate my bodies core temperature. Have you read the recent posts about boiling water in plastic containers? It's the same principal in reverse.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

OK, how about a real survival situation similar to this I went through. In the mid 70's I was working construction and had a VW station wagon that I traveled from one job to the next in. I lived in this thing in the middle of winter in Alaska. The back folded flat where I could sleep and I put a gas heater in it and had a Cat battery in it to run it all night for warmth. You could not be better setup in a vehicle. I had just finished a job in Dead Horse, flown back to Fairbanks and was driving to work at the other end of the pipeline in Valdez so I took the Richardson highway. Unknown to me the highway had been shut down. That seldom happens in Alaska except for the worst storms. So there I was in 30 below weather with the wind blowing about 80 mph causing big drifts in the road but that VW was plowing through them fine but this was a whiteout and I was worrying I would drive of the road I could not see. It was about then a gust of wind blew me right off the road and across a lake until I broke through where a artesian stream feed the lake. I got out and was dressed warm but my parka was still in car and I had gotten partially wet escaping the sinking car. I made it back to the road but no cars were on the highway. The only way to stay warm was to keep moving and I walked for 3 days through the night and not seeing the sun during the day. By the morning of the third day parts of my legs were frozen solid. Frostbite is when the water in your cells freeze and the crystals become sharp. Moving or bending ruptures the cells from the inside. I knew I had to keep walking but did it stiff legged and on that third morning when the sun rose I could see it as a red glow in the sky. It may have been in my mind but I swear I could feel the warmth against my face and lifted my spirits like few times in my life. People talk about mindset in survival situations. Situations vary but in this one it was convincing myself that just beyond my view was safety and continually having those false hopes dashed. A couple hours later a plow truck came through and immediately stopped when he saw me. We where still a few hours from anyplace and I had begun to thaw and the pain was severe. My legs swelled up but not bending them prevented permanent damage and were back to normal in a couple of weeks. I missed out on the job and lost my car but did not mind spending the rest of the winter staying close to the barrel stove back at my cabin. I certainly didn't need the money that bad!

[Sarge47]

Here's my problem with this whole thing. How old are you, A.S.? In your 30's? Robust? Good health? It's the same thing that I see in survival shows, it's always a young, healthy person's game. What about folks a lot older, maybe even with health problems? What if they're an insulin dependent diabetic? I'll tell you right now a diabetic better leave the alcohol alone! That's what killed my father. He was both a diabetic & an alcoholic! While a few of you might thrive on it, I would hesitate to recommend it as a survival tool by imbibing it! :cool2:

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Sarge, I'm in my mid 50's now and while damp weather bothers my bones more I am more impervious to dry cold than ever before. Older people have more fat imbedded in their muscle ready to be burned. I still do physical work in the cold year round. I dream of warm beaches and easy living, the dream just slips further away everyday in this economy. Whiskey is not for sickly people but niether is cold weather survival.

[Sarge47]

.... Whiskey is not for sickly people but niether is cold weather survival.
Excuse me? What if they have no choice? Like an airplane accident? Are they doomed because they can't drink booze? All the experts say leave it alone, & that's what I go by. If it works for you, that's fine, but I wouldn't advise it. Not for anybody, young or old. What about a 12 year old child? Just sayin'. :cool2:

[Sarge47]

You don't have to be old to have diabetes, I know people that have had it in their teens. :cool2:

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Excuse me? What if they have no choice? Like an airplane accident? Are they doomed because they can't drink booze? All the experts say leave it alone, & that's what I go by. If it works for you, that's fine, but I wouldn't advise it. Not for anybody, young or old. What about a 12 year old child? Just sayin'. :cool2:

There is a difference between getting drunk and howling at the moon and using it for medicinal purposes. Sounds like the experts don't have near as much experience in the cold or drinking whiskey as I have. Experts are experts because they write books or make TV shows not because they have lived it all that much. One of the things that excites me about that Les guys new show. The previews I saw said beyond survival and goes to visit with natives that live it. It should be good, more like Ray Mears I would guess. Didn't you quote some expert saying something about catching big fish on small hooks. Sometimes it would be better to listen to a fisherman than a survival expert if it has to do with fishing. Survival experts have a lot of general knowledge. Much more than I have in desert survival or tropical forests, but when it comes to cold weather they could all learn a thing or two from me. I'm a specialist in cold and practically an expert in whiskey drinking. Probably not in the same class as some of the members from Kentucky who probably make their own but still drank more than my fair share. As a matter of fact if people can't drink whiskey I'd be more than happy to drink their share.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Besides you barely feel it in the cold. It hits you when you come inside.

[Sarge47]

There is a difference between getting drunk and howling at the moon and using it for medicinal purposes. Sounds like the experts don't have near as much experience in the cold or drinking whiskey as I have. Experts are experts because they write books or make TV shows not because they have lived it all that much. One of the things that excites me about that Les guys new show. The previews I saw said beyond survival and goes to visit with natives that live it. It should be good, more like Ray Mears I would guess. Didn't you quote some expert saying something about catching big fish on small hooks. Sometimes it would be better to listen to a fisherman than a survival expert if it has to do with fishing. Survival experts have a lot of general knowledge. Much more than I have in desert survival or tropical forests, but when it comes to cold weather they could all learn a thing or two from me. I'm a specialist in cold and practically an expert in whiskey drinking. Probably not in the same class as some of the members from Kentucky who probably make their own but still drank more than my fair share. As a matter of fact if people can't drink whiskey I'd be more than happy to drink their share.
I couldn't disagree more, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Myself, I never think I know more than the experts. People like John "Lofty" Wiseman, Cody Lundin, Mors Kochanski, these guys live it as well as write books. However, you're welcome to your opinions. :cool2:

[Ken]

So how do you guys feel about beer instead of whiskey?

It's August, and August is Corona and Red Stripe season, so please include comments about those particular brands in your replies. :innocent:

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Even on the show Dual Survival they each know when to step back and listen to the one that has the experience. In this I have the experience. It's not an opinion.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

So how do you guys feel about beer instead of whiskey?

It's August, and August is Corona and Red Stripe season, so please include comments about those particular brands in your replies. :innocent:

I only drink beer to be polite. What I really like in cold weather is a thermos of Hot Buttered Rum.

[Ken]

First, warm the snifter to 140 degrees. Then fill half way with

http://acorkabove.com/images/grand150.jpg or http://files.clubplanet.com/sitefiles/ArticleImages/2082/BB_2.jpg

[canid]

August is Corona and Red Stripe season, so please include comments about those particular brands in your replies.

ok: red stripe is miller that was shipped to jamaica and back to drive up the price. drink a man's beer:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GO0Q9VKVbM8/SZe8oZLZqwI/AAAAAAAAB9w/fpju-ImtjLk/s400/Human+Picture+856.jpg
http://www.united-nations-of-beer.com/images/arrogant-bastard-ale-21354155.jpg

[Alaskan Survivalist]

ok: red stripe is miller that was shipped to jamaica and back to drive up the price. drink a man's beer:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GO0Q9VKVbM8/SZe8oZLZqwI/AAAAAAAAB9w/fpju-ImtjLk/s400/Human+Picture+856.jpg
http://www.united-nations-of-beer.com/images/arrogant-bastard-ale-21354155.jpg

It's like it's calling my name!

[Beans]

OK, how about a real survival situation similar to this I went through. In the mid 70's I was working construction and had a VW station wagon that I traveled from one job to the next in. I lived in this thing in the middle of winter in Alaska. The back folded flat where I could sleep and I put a gas heater in it and had a Cat battery in it to run it all night for warmth. You could not be better setup in a vehicle. I had just finished a job in Dead Horse, flown back to Fairbanks and was driving to work at the other end of the pipeline in Valdez so I took the Richardson highway. Unknown to me the highway had been shut down. That seldom happens in Alaska except for the worst storms. So there I was in 30 below weather with the wind blowing about 80 mph causing big drifts in the road but that VW was plowing through them fine but this was a whiteout and I was worrying I would drive of the road I could not see. It was about then a gust of wind blew me right off the road and across a lake until I broke through where a artesian stream feed the lake. I got out and was dressed warm but my parka was still in car and I had gotten partially wet escaping the sinking car. I made it back to the road but no cars were on the highway. The only way to stay warm was to keep moving and I walked for 3 days through the night and not seeing the sun during the day. By the morning of the third day parts of my legs were frozen solid. Frostbite is when the water in your cells freeze and the crystals become sharp. Moving or bending ruptures the cells from the inside. I knew I had to keep walking but did it stiff legged and on that third morning when the sun rose I could see it as a red glow in the sky. It may have been in my mind but I swear I could feel the warmth against my face and lifted my spirits like few times in my life. People talk about mindset in survival situations. Situations vary but in this one it was convincing myself that just beyond my view was safety and continually having those false hopes dashed. A couple hours later a plow truck came through and immediately stopped when he saw me. We where still a few hours from anyplace and I had begun to thaw and the pain was severe. My legs swelled up but not bending them prevented permanent damage and were back to normal in a couple of weeks. I missed out on the job and lost my car but did not mind spending the rest of the winter staying close to the barrel stove back at my cabin. I certainly didn't need the money that bad!

And that is the reason that I spent the last 32 years living in a desert area. I hate the cold :sneaky2:

[canid]

yeah; there's nothing like drinking a pint that makes you feel like you just ate a loaf of whole grain bread. i think i lived on stones ales for a while at one point.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

And that is the reason that I spent the last 32 years living in a desert area. I hate the cold :sneaky2:

Very similar to my desert survival strategy. Don't know how you guys do it!

[canid]

seriously. my body refuses to tollerate the heat. this has been a mercifully mild summer here, but i hate california 5 months out of the year. i'll take -20 over 110 any day of the week.

[Ken]

ok: red stripe is miller that was shipped to jamaica and back to drive up the price. drink a man's beer:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GO0Q9VKVbM8/SZe8oZLZqwI/AAAAAAAAB9w/fpju-ImtjLk/s400/Human+Picture+856.jpg
http://www.united-nations-of-beer.com/images/arrogant-bastard-ale-21354155.jpg

canid, you poor misguided critter. Those are winter brews, and mediocre ones at best. Here. Drink something good for a change in January.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qu-NsGz9y5E/Sw2JRBkvl6I/AAAAAAAACNg/bivFwGeh-w8/s1600/Gansett+Porter.jpg

http://justbeer.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/full-moon-winter-ale.gif

[canid]

[re-read, line retracted]

i'm a fan of blue moon's brews. i don't think i've seen the other one. i'm partial to deschuttes' black butte.

you can say what you want about stones and moylans, i'm a dedicated fan. as far as i know, both the kilt lifter and the ab are produced year round, and enjoyed when ever i can.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

I always put quantity over quality when it comes to beer and over the years I have come to prefer the taste of cheap beer.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

If there was a keg on that plane I have a feeling we'd be waiting to be rescued.

[Winnie]

So how do you guys feel about beer instead of whiskey?
:innocent:

This summer I rediscovered this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCB_xiMoA7I

I'd forgotten how good (and alcoholic) it was:)

[Sarge47]

Even on the show Dual Survival they each know when to step back and listen to the one that has the experience. In this I have the experience. It's not an opinion.1st, both Cody & Dave are "Pros," they have the credentials to prove it. 2nd, I DO recognize your experience in one area, tell me, which is best, Wild Turkey, Or Jack Daniels? :sneaky2:

[klickitat]

1st, both Cody & Dave are "Pros," they have the credentials to prove it. 2nd, I DO recognize your experience in one area, tell me, which is best, Wild Turkey, Or Jack Daniels? :sneaky2:

I am a bit of an expert in this area and I highly recommend Jameson.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

1st, both Cody & Dave are "Pros," they have the credentials to prove it. 2nd, I DO recognize your experience in one area, tell me, which is best, Wild Turkey, Or Jack Daniels? :sneaky2:

Well that's progress. I am partial to Crown Royal. Fewer after affects and goes down smoother. I have no problem challenging common misconceptions because my words can be verified by any that actually do it.

[Rick]

Alcohol is the breath of the devil. Anyone that would drink that stuff would pluck the eyebrows out of baby ducks. Besides, it makes me sick. :blushing:

[crashdive123]

Call me a baby duck eyebrow plucker.:innocent:

[Rick]

Bdep for short.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

"It's not what you put in your mouth that defiles you, but that which comes out"

Jesus

Lets not get religous.

[crashdive123]

Huh????????

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Huh????????

One of the few books I have read.

[jgcoastie]

He's saying that drinking doesn't make you a bad person. The overall life that you live and the words that you speak matter more than what you drank with your steak last night...

[BENESSE]

He's saying that drinking doesn't make you a bad person. The overall life that you live and the words that you speak matter more than what you drank with your steak last night...

No arguments there.

[crashdive123]

Oh, none here either. I thought his post was in response to Rick's - hence (don't you just love that word) my question.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

2009 (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/3442)294.5 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/1018)Bett (http://eyesvision.ru/better-eyesight-magazine-better-eyesight-1926-06)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com)Щего (http://factoringfee.ru/t/475147)Wind (http://filmzones.ru/t/134504)Приг (http://gadwall.ru/t/247192)Jame (http://gaffertape.ru/t/350765)авто (http://gageboard.ru/t/421660)York (http://gagrule.ru/t/263920)�ико (http://gallduct.ru/t/669059)Dorm (http://galvanometric.ru/t/343460)Tesc (http://gangforeman.ru/t/143402)вузо (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/167346)Зели (http://garbagechute.ru/t/835655)
Tefa (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/141478)Alla (http://gascautery.ru/t/396575)Deny (http://gashbucket.ru/t/227364)рижÑ� (http://gasreturn.ru/t/655013)fren (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/558629)Кита (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/675387)Глуш (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/674231)Т910 (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/448517)Tefa (http://geartreating.ru/t/568088)Leif (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/352275)Ð*азм (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/557569)Eagl (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/559037)Rose (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/138630)Ñ�ерт (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/138695)Mois (http://getthebounce.ru/t/137829)
пере (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/627413)Trac (http://habituate.ru/t/625563)Гу�е (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/296052)They (http://hackworker.ru/t/623972)Losi (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/623335)John (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/614814)Skin (http://hailsquall.ru/t/139540)Mika (http://hairysphere.ru/t/339990)Patr (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/560950)�ерт (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/561679)Phid (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/549160)Oste (http://haltstate.ru/t/395872)Levi (http://handcoding.ru/t/565222)Joze (http://handportedhead.ru/t/659116)�ерт (http://handradar.ru/t/561314)
Ñ�ерт (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/137672)Jean (http://hangonpart.ru/t/175144)граж (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/300418)Чума (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/282583)Ñ�тих (http://hardasiron.ru/t/299722)Ñ�ерт (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/566065)Sams (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/302402)Towe (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/140709)Step (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/179002)Ð*езн (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/284039)молн (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/156040)Coll (http://headregulator.ru/t/177488)iPod (http://heartofgold.ru/t/178676)XVII (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/280788)Davi (http://heatinggas.ru/t/620478)
Hein (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/305189)Andr (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/292892)праз (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/303647)Plea (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/601878)Niki (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/602584)Niki (http://jobstress.ru/t/602563)молн (http://jogformation.ru/t/606130)Roma (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/549741)Arch (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/542755)Bonu (http://journallubricator.ru/t/141024)Swin (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/525645)XVII (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/297134)авто (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/304436)Alan (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/304305)гурм (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/303652)
Медв (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/319117)Jona (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/326465)Соде (http://kentishglory.ru/t/487601)Fred (http://kerbweight.ru/t/220360)John (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/338034)Loui (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/295266)Корн (http://keyserum.ru/t/264742)Swar (http://kickplate.ru/t/157307)Fuxi (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/604111)�ере (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/605148)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/608413)тира (http://kinozones.ru/film/3442)Swar (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/604141)зака (http://kneejoint.ru/t/604292)Miyo (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/611055)
Dist (http://knockonatom.ru/t/434223)Swar (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/604086)Иллю (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/196090)Will (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/770466)Соде (http://laborracket.ru/t/157451)Коте (http://labourearnings.ru/t/194843)Мало (http://labourleasing.ru/t/301247)Clif (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/495597)Wayl (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/554131)Кача (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/493582)Aaro (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/511588)Geti (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/292462)Palo (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/171803)Сухо (http://laggingload.ru/t/252889)Roma (http://laissezaller.ru/t/295065)
Суле (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/166622)Ком� (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/293125)Садо (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/280569)Горы (http://lamphouse.ru/t/321424)Собо (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/284647)Sens (http://lancingdie.ru/t/166243)Chri (http://landingdoor.ru/t/245879)Дели (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/296477)и�по (http://landreform.ru/t/466542)Harr (http://landuseratio.ru/t/296289)Albe (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/479436)Zass (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1162297)фарф (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1536762)Audi (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1298)Дюйм (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591281)

[yellowcab]

Wind (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178889)MABE (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/451919)Jean (http://layabout.ru/shop/600126)Mich (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/601841)Карг (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/166100)Dime (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/466789)Чанн (http://leaveword.ru/shop/794586)рабо (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/354073)Defi (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/609662)B861 (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/557815)Леви (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/269790)Flip (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/674336)худо (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/786359)ARAG (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612789)Stev (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175053)
авгу (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1174836)назв (http://medinfobooks.ru)Folk (http://mp3lists.ru/item/3442)Мак� (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1151299)Mila (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/574751)�зык (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/462177)пред (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1056202)чув� (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/576812)Magi (http://navelseed.ru/shop/103374)двиг (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/455886)wwwn (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/184864)Lear (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/639904)Стро (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/644127)Черн (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/470900)Moul (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/97686)
вход (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/457661)Ñ�ерт (http://oceanmining.ru)Fris (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571824)Соко (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/149774)Ð�аза (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/203847)Логу (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/203611)ЛитÐ* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/581672)любу (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/583909)ЛитÐ* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/685754)Воло (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/685184)унив (http://palmberry.ru/shop/689915)Your (http://papercoating.ru/shop/585034)Шере (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/690546)Ryan (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1172314)Mari (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1172278)
пере (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1176581)изда (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1174129)Онип (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1543656)Зани (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1543144)Иллю (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/597084)Дерк (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/839248)Ford (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1075188)Черк (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1080520)Евге (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/357985)Quad (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/511282)про� (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/635692)Wher (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/903922)Wind (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1042352)albu (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1296701)Juli (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1213874)
Карр (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/515726)Иван (http://rearchain.ru/shop/878500)жизн (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/878372)Фоаш (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1033651)обеÑ� (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1057055)Узор (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1064373)Миха (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1687190)друз (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1694590)Ð*ойт (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1770276)Jane (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1775743)Nobo (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1821282)возр (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1061855)Семе (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1854285)Коро (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1880141)Fore (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1915256)
чита (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1494914)Коно (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1498939)Сиби (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1498928)Моги (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1617120)роди (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1446570)Лаза (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1493731)Шело (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/364357)Gene (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/402910)Karl (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/405177)Prim (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1692539)Audi (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1298)Audi (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1298)Audi (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1298)Яков (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/485123)Robe (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/496227)
возр (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/500485)Deep (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/504786)Tese (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/489754)Budd (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/501266)авто (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1848900)�кон (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1898539)Copy (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1918630)Кра� (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/792219)Борт (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/888864)авто (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/982931)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Бойч (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/983347)Eric (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/485500)

[yellowcab]

�айт (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)�айт (http://cottagenet.ru)�айт (http://eyesvision.ru)�айт (http://eyesvisions.com)�айт (http://factoringfee.ru)�айт (http://filmzones.ru)�айт (http://gadwall.ru)�айт (http://gaffertape.ru)�айт (http://gageboard.ru)�айт (http://gagrule.ru)�айт (http://gallduct.ru)�айт (http://galvanometric.ru)�айт (http://gangforeman.ru)�айт (http://gangwayplatform.ru)�айт (http://garbagechute.ru)
�айт (http://gardeningleave.ru)�айт (http://gascautery.ru)�айт (http://gashbucket.ru)�айт (http://gasreturn.ru)�айт (http://gatedsweep.ru)�айт (http://gaugemodel.ru)�айт (http://gaussianfilter.ru)�айт (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)�айт (http://geartreating.ru)�айт (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)�айт (http://generalprovisions.ru)�айт (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)�айт (http://geriatricnurse.ru)�айт (http://getintoaflap.ru)�айт (http://getthebounce.ru)
�айт (http://habeascorpus.ru)�айт (http://habituate.ru)�айт (http://hackedbolt.ru)�айт (http://hackworker.ru)�айт (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)�айт (http://haemagglutinin.ru)�айт (http://hailsquall.ru)�айт (http://hairysphere.ru)�айт (http://halforderfringe.ru)�айт (http://halfsiblings.ru)�айт (http://hallofresidence.ru)�айт (http://haltstate.ru)�айт (http://handcoding.ru)�айт (http://handportedhead.ru)�айт (http://handradar.ru)
�айт (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)�айт (http://hangonpart.ru)�айт (http://haphazardwinding.ru)�айт (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)�айт (http://hardasiron.ru)�айт (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)�айт (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)�айт (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)�айт (http://hatchholddown.ru)�айт (http://haveafinetime.ru)�айт (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)�айт (http://headregulator.ru)�айт (http://heartofgold.ru)�айт (http://heatageingresistance.ru)�айт (http://heatinggas.ru)
�айт (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)�айт (http://jacketedwall.ru)�айт (http://japanesecedar.ru)�айт (http://jibtypecrane.ru)�айт (http://jobabandonment.ru)�айт (http://jobstress.ru)�айт (http://jogformation.ru)�айт (http://jointcapsule.ru)�айт (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)�айт (http://journallubricator.ru)�айт (http://juicecatcher.ru)�айт (http://junctionofchannels.ru)�айт (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)�айт (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)�айт (http://kaposidisease.ru)
�айт (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)�айт (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)�айт (http://kentishglory.ru)�айт (http://kerbweight.ru)�айт (http://kerrrotation.ru)�айт (http://keymanassurance.ru)�айт (http://keyserum.ru)�айт (http://kickplate.ru)�айт (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)�айт (http://kilowattsecond.ru)�айт (http://kingweakfish.ru)�айт (http://kinozones.ru)�айт (http://kleinbottle.ru)�айт (http://kneejoint.ru)�айт (http://knifesethouse.ru)
�айт (http://knockonatom.ru)�айт (http://knowledgestate.ru)�айт (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)�айт (http://labeledgraph.ru)�айт (http://laborracket.ru)�айт (http://labourearnings.ru)�айт (http://labourleasing.ru)�айт (http://laburnumtree.ru)�айт (http://lacingcourse.ru)�айт (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)�айт (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)�айт (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)�айт (http://ladletreatediron.ru)�айт (http://laggingload.ru)�айт (http://laissezaller.ru)
�айт (http://lambdatransition.ru)�айт (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)�айт (http://lammasshoot.ru)�айт (http://lamphouse.ru)�айт (http://lancecorporal.ru)�айт (http://lancingdie.ru)�айт (http://landingdoor.ru)�айт (http://landmarksensor.ru)�айт (http://landreform.ru)�айт (http://landuseratio.ru)�айт (http://languagelaboratory.ru)�айт (http://largeheart.ru)�айт (http://lasercalibration.ru)�айт (http://laserlens.ru)�айт (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

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�айт (http://obstructivepatent.ru)�айт (http://oceanmining.ru)�айт (http://octupolephonon.ru)�айт (http://offlinesystem.ru)�айт (http://offsetholder.ru)�айт (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)�айт (http://onesticket.ru)�айт (http://packedspheres.ru)�айт (http://pagingterminal.ru)�айт (http://palatinebones.ru)�айт (http://palmberry.ru)�айт (http://papercoating.ru)�айт (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)�айт (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)�айт (http://parkingbrake.ru)
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�айт (http://tamecurve.ru)�айт (http://tapecorrection.ru)�айт (http://tappingchuck.ru)�айт (http://taskreasoning.ru)�айт (http://technicalgrade.ru)�айт (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)�айт (http://telescopicdamper.ru)�айт (http://temperateclimate.ru)�айт (http://temperedmeasure.ru)�айт (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)�айт (http://ultramaficrock.ru)�айт (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)