View Full Version : preaching to the choir?
kyratshooter
06-21-2010, 11:49 AM
I helped a friend teach a CCW class this weekend. 12 students, all reasonably intelligent. Did fine on the written work, now for the shooting segment.
Out came the guns. Some fine hardware present, some very expensive hardware, names I will not mention.
3 revolver shooters, 9 simiauto, all name brand pistols.
The revolvers did fine, as expected. Everyone shooting .38 spl and popping the target at 7 yards with no problem. I wondered why Rob let all the revolver shooters go through as a group, first.
First auto shooter up, $1200 1911 style pistol ( brand starts with a K) jams 3rd round. Clear and shoot, clear and shoot. Took 5 minutes to get 12 shots down range.
Next, the Glock jamed. I did not know Glocks could jam? Everyone always told me Glocks did not jam, ever! All the forum survivalists say their Glocks would never dream of jaming. Faithful as a puppy.
There were only 2 autopistols that did not bobble before 12 rounds went down range, a Browning HP and a box stock GI 1911 that was about 80 years old.
What was the problem? No break-in time on the guns. Almost all the people lacked any real shooting time with the guns they brought. The most expensive of the group were "safe queens" that were so expensive the owners never took them out of the box. The only reason they had them that day was they wanted to qualify with the "best gun they had" so there would be no problems. 2 of the people had purchased their pistols the day before and had not fired a shot fropm their guns. One guy had never fired a gun of any kind.
One person wound up shooting qualification with a borrowed pistol. Every shot from his 9mm stovepiped.
I guess it takes all kinds.:blushing:
I know I am preaching to the chior with you folks, but please take the defense guns out for an airing now and then. Make sure that new box of shells is not defective.
Excellent post. Thanks for the reminder.
gryffynklm
06-21-2010, 01:08 PM
Good thing it wasn't a parachuting class.
You make a good point. Interesting that so many were that green.
hunter63
06-21-2010, 01:47 PM
Good thing it wasn't a parachuting class.
You make a good point. Interesting that so many were that green.
LOL, I hear ya. Can you say "splat"?
As far as a lot of "green folks" I guessing a lot of people are running scared, for them selves, their rights, and the world in general.
I have gotten several requests from people that were not interested in firearms, whats so ever, asking, "can you recommend a good self defence gun?" (My advice is, first, a 12ga, or if smaller person 20ga shot gun, with a wheel gun as first choice on hand guns))
Sign of the times.
KS, Good post, wise advice, I guessing that a lot of people were having trouble getting any amount of ammo the last year or so, so were hanging on to what they had.
I like to "try out: my newly adopted tools, but I should really shoot a lot more...
I've always figured if at first you don't succeed, parachuting isn't your sport...
Thanks KY, you are right on the mark with your advice. On the good side, those folks were trying to learn and may now understand that practice is paramount to safe shooting. At least that's 12 more that knew than before they took the class.
Pal334
06-21-2010, 05:18 PM
"a box stock GI 1911 that was about 80 years old."
As the kids would say "Thank you":cool2::thumbup1::jango::gunsmilie::eyepoke:
On a more serious note, you give good advise, thank you
kyratshooter
06-21-2010, 05:34 PM
The pity is that my friend said that this is the NORM!
Most of the students show up with a new or barely used pistol and a fresh box of ammo. Many times the scream is "It never did this before!", and it may not have. The new box of ammo is the culpurt.
Same with magazines. I have one mag for a .380 that consistantly fails to feed the last round. Since I only have 2 mags for that pistol I keep that mag well marked and use it as the last ditch, reserve mag.
You have to know your gear.
crashdive123
06-21-2010, 05:51 PM
I'll bet some of those less experienced shooters were limp wristing their weapons.
Alaskan Survivalist
06-21-2010, 05:59 PM
It stands to reason that new shooters taking a class to learn to shoot would have new guns and not be able to handle them well. It should be obvious to anyone that has read internet posts that the gun does it all and you just need the best one, that's the impression I would get from the internet if I did not know better. Nope, not surprized at all.
Quigley
06-21-2010, 07:45 PM
Good post. I would hope that someone who was wanting to get their CCP would at least spend some time at the range before hand. I know I did. As for the Glocks, I love them, but they are very prone to limp wisting. If someone with weak wrists or at least a weak grip shoots one they can pretty much make it jam every time.
(Where's Glock Cop? snort, chuckle).
Ole WV Coot
06-21-2010, 08:04 PM
I'll bet some of those less experienced shooters were limp wristing their weapons.
Think Crash is 100% correct on the limp wrist. They could have shot 22s and had the same results. I would think for a class have revolvers in 38 only with a min. 4" bbl and everyone use them. I can remember a class a lady had a 380 Jennings, never fired and she had never fired a firearm before. I think she got one shot off, missed the paper at 7 and the instructor gave up on the pistol, but she passed because she paid, personal opinion. I don't advise nor teach a semi as a first handgun. Master the basics on a full size 38 first, I always had few students, my choice. I would short load one or two and watch the hand for flinching, limp wrist and trigger jerk. Everyone has their own method, mine worked for me.
Alaskan Survivalist
06-21-2010, 08:20 PM
The first handgun I learned to shoot was the original Ruger Black Hawk in 44 Magnum. It never occured to me not to have a good grip on a handgun. I taught my wife to shoot the 44 first also because that was the gun we had and the one she needed to learn to shoot. I can't forget the first time she shot a 22 Single Six, She could not stop laughing!
DickensCPA
06-30-2010, 01:25 PM
My Dad and I took our carry class together on 6/12. We had 21 in the class and like yours 3 revolvers and the rest semi's. My Dad and I shoot 357 wheel guns and the other revolver guy happened to have a 357 too. Don't know what cal the semi's were shooting but lots of limp wristing and jamming. I have a 9mm and I don't trust it. I know how to shoot and know I'm not limp wristing. It's so fickle about brand of ammo. I prefer the reliability of a revolver. May not have as many shots, but I know at least 5 are going.
In our class we had a young lady about 25 and um... well built with a low cut revealing top. Her boyfriend already had his permit but sat in on the class, of course he knew and had an opinion on everything.
Comes time to shoot and she was using his semi. She limp wristed a few of course. She popped off one shot and a piece of hot ejected brass went down her shirt, between two hills and down to her belly button. Burnt her both places. She came out of that shirt in about 2 seconds. Apparently she didn't know how far down it would fall and she went from TIGHT jeans to what I would call dental floss.
Her boyfriend was screaming at us to turn our heads and don't look at her. Got right up on my Dad screaming at him. My Dad is a piece of work. He was an Army Ranger and did two tours in Viet Nam. He's the head Elder at Church and I'm not sure I've ever heard him curse. He rarely talks, but when he does it's either real funny or real profound. That day it was funny. He looked back at the guy and said, "I'm 63 years old, I don't turn around for anybody. Her face don't match the body anyway."
I lost it. We passed and I did the DMV and fingerprint deal and just waiting on the postman.
Brad
Old GI
06-30-2010, 01:52 PM
(Where's Glock Cop? snort, chuckle).
Where has that little tar ball been?:innocent:
crashdive123
06-30-2010, 03:18 PM
Where has that little tar ball been?:innocent:
He's been hanging out here (http://forums.1911forum.com/) and doesn't want anybody to know.:innocent:
Old GI
07-01-2010, 09:04 AM
He's been hanging out here (http://forums.1911forum.com/) and doesn't want anybody to know.:innocent:
Now THAT'S funny, I don't care who you are!!! Do we know if he's OK?
justin_baker
07-01-2010, 01:41 PM
You guys are lucky.....there is no way that i am going to manage to get a concealed permit here. Luckily, i dont live in oakland or anything like that, but the gangs and crime are coming up more and more north.
Justin Case
07-01-2010, 01:51 PM
You guys are lucky.....there is no way that i am going to manage to get a concealed permit here. Luckily, i dont live in oakland or anything like that, but the gangs and crime are coming up more and more north.
Move to Arizona, No Permit required to carry exposed or concealed, :)
BENESSE
07-01-2010, 02:04 PM
Move to Arizona, No Permit required to carry exposed or concealed, :)
You mean, one can just go buy a gun no questions asked and carry it around?
Alaskan Survivalist
07-01-2010, 02:37 PM
You mean, one can just go buy a gun no questions asked and carry it around?
"Free men don't need permission to own guns"
BENESSE
07-01-2010, 02:44 PM
"Free men don't need permission to own guns"
Be that as it may, it still seems pretty incredible so I just had to ask to make sure I got it right.
Alaskan Survivalist
07-01-2010, 02:51 PM
Gun control is not a new issue if you expand it to include all weapons. When foriegn invasion was the biggest fear governments wanted the peasants armed. In times of peace they feared the people and want them disarmed. This will go on till the end.
justin_baker
07-01-2010, 03:34 PM
Move to Arizona, No Permit required to carry exposed or concealed, :)
This
http://images.free-extras.com/pics/a/arizona_desert-1218.jpg
http://spuds.agron.ksu.edu/ArizonaDesert.jpg
or.............
http://trans-americas.com/image/work/T+L/Camping/200908-campsites-jedediah-ss.jpg
http://www.wildnatureimages.com/images%203/C6CT2721..jpg
http://www2.worthingtonlibraries.org/teen/blog/Image/travel/yosemite.jpg
I think ill stay.......lol no offense.
justin_baker
07-01-2010, 03:40 PM
"Free men don't need permission to own guns"
Indeed......but if i actually use it then im screwed. Almost better to run your *** of and take a chance at being shot then to use it and go to jail for a looooong time.
2dumb2kwit
07-01-2010, 05:07 PM
Indeed......but if i actually use it then im screwed. Almost better to run your *** of and take a chance at being shot then to use it and go to jail for a looooong time.
I live in a state, where it's not a crime to defend yourself.:innocent:
Alaskan Survivalist
07-01-2010, 05:14 PM
Indeed......but if i actually use it then im screwed. Almost better to run your *** of and take a chance at being shot then to use it and go to jail for a looooong time.
There is no jail time for hunting accidents.
2dumb2kwit
07-01-2010, 05:20 PM
There is no jail time for hunting accidents.
Last night, an EMT friend of mine told me about a call he went on, a couple of years ago. He was picking up the body of an intruder. He overheard the cops talking to the lady, that had shot the intruder. They told her that officially, it was in the report as self defence. Off the record they told her how proud they were of her, for putting all six rounds in that guys chest. When they got outside, away from her, they told another cop, that they should give her extra credit, for getting him while he was still on the linoleum, making it easier to clean up the mess.
You gotta love small southern towns.:innocent: LOL
BENESSE
07-01-2010, 05:22 PM
There is no jail time for hunting accidents.
You're right about that AS, Dick Chaney didn't go to jail.
Camp10
07-01-2010, 07:58 PM
You mean, one can just go buy a gun no questions asked and carry it around?
Not entirely. If you buy your firearm from a dealer you still need to pass the background check. It just means that the state will allow legal gun owners to carry.
BENESSE
07-01-2010, 08:06 PM
Not entirely. If you buy your firearm from a dealer you still need to pass the background check. It just means that the state will allow legal gun owners to carry.
Well now, I like that! Makes sense.
Justin Case
07-01-2010, 08:12 PM
You mean, one can just go buy a gun no questions asked and carry it around?
Pretty Much, if you but it from a dealer or a shop, they do a quick check to make sure you are not a convicted felon, It only takes about 15 min, no waiting period, or, you can legally by from Non dealers as long as you are both AZ residents, Yard sales , newspaper, buddy, whatever, as far as carrying , The new law has just pased allowing CCW without any permit, I am not sure if that law has taken effect yet or not, (i think it has),
crashdive123
07-01-2010, 08:16 PM
It's going to vary from state to state B. In Florida if you have a CCW permit you can walk into a gun shop, and walk out with as many guns as you want. You do have to fill out whatever form it is, and a quick phone call for the background check. If you do not have a CCW permit, there is a three day wait to pick up hand guns - no wait for long guns.
In Vermont, there are no CCW permits required to carry concealed, and no waiting periods for purchase.
kyratshooter
07-01-2010, 08:29 PM
I live 30 miles from down town Cinncinatti. Gangs out the wazoo, shootings every day, gun fights in the city parks, bla..bla...bla..
They stay on their side of the river. Asked why by one reporter and the reply was,
"Them rednecks in KY will shoot your #%$!"
A few make it into Covington or Newport, right on the river, but they are scared to death of going "up the hill".
KY has always been "open carry" and allowed transport in a vehicle, but now a large portion of the population has obtained CCW. It is also a "Shall Issue" law. If you ask, and have a clear record, they can not deny your permit. Almost everyone I know has a permit. Many of the women I know and even my sedate Methodist pastor.
BENESSE
07-01-2010, 08:34 PM
How do you guys feel about conceal vs. open carry?
crashdive123
07-01-2010, 08:38 PM
You cannot open carry in Florida. Personally, I like open carry. The mere fact that a weapon is visible is often a deterrent for those that would do you harm. With CCW, I do not try and conceal the fact that I am carrying. I usually use a shoulder bag or waist bag that, to somebody knowledgeable, are obvious what they are intended.
Justin Case
07-01-2010, 09:38 PM
when i carry in public its concealed, in the Bush,, open.
2dumb2kwit
07-01-2010, 09:53 PM
How do you guys feel about conceal vs. open carry?
I think it should be up to the person who is carrying. Each has it's place.
huntermj
07-01-2010, 10:05 PM
After a year and a half in Vermont i have yet to see anyone open carry. But if you were do a weapons check on just the employes and there cars where i work, it would be an impressive collection of arms.
And crash is correct when he says a person can still let it be known they are carrying when concelled, even if they are wearing a surplus poncho.:innocent:
justin_baker
07-02-2010, 02:03 AM
California has a "shall issue", but everywhere ive looked people have said that only celebrities, politicians, or someone with a specific reason can get them.
justin_baker
07-02-2010, 02:04 AM
There is no jail time for hunting accidents.
Yes......i will tell the cop that i was hunting pigeons.
crashdive123
07-02-2010, 05:05 AM
California has a "shall issue", but everywhere ive looked people have said that only celebrities, politicians, or someone with a specific reason can get them.
Ummmmm - I'm assuming that you are being facetious about the shall issue part. They are far from a shall issue state. Here is a break down county by county of California and the "issue friendliness" that they choose to follow. http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/counties/countiesmap.html
kyratshooter
07-02-2010, 12:00 PM
You cannot open carry in Florida. Personally, I like open carry. The mere fact that a weapon is visible is often a deterrent for those that would do you harm. With CCW, I do not try and conceal the fact that I am carrying. I usually use a shoulder bag or waist bag that, to somebody knowledgeable, are obvious what they are intended.
I am just the opposite.
I do not want to make myself a target and be the first to be taken out. I do not wnat anyone to know I am carrying until they are already shot, preferably twice.
This difference in opinion is one of the reasons some folk consider a full size pistol hanging visibly on their belt appropriate for CCW and others desie a smaller highly concealable pistol.
One of the things they stress here is that concealed carry means just that, concealed. Why pay the fees and deal with clearing the application process is you are going to carry open, which you can do without the CCW.
Open carry draws attention you do not want like crazy. Even when it is legal, people are not used to it.
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yellowcab
12-05-2025, 10:27 PM
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yellowcab
12-05-2025, 10:28 PM
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yellowcab
03-05-2026, 11:45 PM
царе (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/2664)172.2 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/240)упра (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/138)When (http://eyesvisions.com)Ceci (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1204887)Bord (http://filmzones.ru/t/1040880)Крис (http://gadwall.ru/t/1203744)Feli (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1102993)выст (http://gageboard.ru/t/1096052)Наза (http://gagrule.ru/t/1025172)хоро (http://gallduct.ru/t/1163615)Carl (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1286107)Gunt (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1354449)кара (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1697417)Anto (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1243920)
Manu (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1070847)*азм (http://gascautery.ru/t/1147083)John (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1071475)Tesc (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1215883)Mich (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1060140)Нест (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1239574)King (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1382614)Spec (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1204398)Harl (http://geartreating.ru/t/1103554)Brea (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1108316)Lisa (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1231915)Roge (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1084138)Боро (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1286068)серт (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1145046)Мелл (http://getthebounce.ru/t/851625)
*ома (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1088933)Intr (http://habituate.ru/t/1092647)Gaut (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1209044)Юрис (http://hackworker.ru/t/1346246)Life (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1104287)Chai (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1099102)Open (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1134287)чере (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1084359)Слеп (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1046833)Visa (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1031868)исто (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/937130)Фищу (http://haltstate.ru/t/952983)1с16 (http://handcoding.ru/t/1027825)Celi (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1223398)Mund (http://handradar.ru/t/900273)
Patr (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1041642)Acca (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1144820)Robe (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/857240)стих (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/762838)Соде (http://hardasiron.ru/t/809616)Шеве (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/947293)Гуса (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/995775)врач (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/855030)Агра (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1021849)кноп (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1547438)рево (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1328239)плас (http://headregulator.ru/t/1547492)Arte (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1547875)Гриб (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1050758)Иван (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1371534)
Воро (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1182938)Alfo (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/770621)Barb (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/834256)Sera (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1247302)небл (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/817188)Stan (http://jobstress.ru/t/842363)Mari (http://jogformation.ru/t/1032731)Coto (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1148170)Poul (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1223667)Соде (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1300698)Coto (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1148152)Roxy (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1180817)Yasu (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1182335)Clic (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1183938)Sela (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1180472)
Niki (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1181542)*ыже (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/819547)Номе (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1183531)кара (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1188068)Mars (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/832661)XVII (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/810682)Real (http://keyserum.ru/t/1181337)Хайк (http://kickplate.ru/t/1357415)Супр (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1346508)Iden (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1106557)Золо (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1351539)чуде (http://kinozones.ru/film/2664)Some (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1200927)Писа (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1164777)Push (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1711273)
Черн (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1017929)журн (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1224109)Jane (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1499789)Доро (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1294295)зани (http://laborracket.ru/t/1308698)Zone (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1548952)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1548657)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1191032)Zone (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1189686)ABUD (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1188979)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1187303)Zone (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1194097)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1192380)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1190696)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1192324)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1192365)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1194103)Соде (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1246449)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1185524)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1185473)MORG (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186915)ASAS (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1189091)Нико (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1369686)Chet (http://landreform.ru/t/1187359)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185717)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1191477)СМих (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160475)пред (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/589350)прод (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/520)смер (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590162)
yellowcab
03-05-2026, 11:46 PM
разн (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1030945)Kron (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/453165)Shin (http://layabout.ru/shop/451834)ANTI (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/164054)Wind (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/105472)Герм (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/455936)Snoo (http://leaveword.ru/shop/456352)Brad (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/164078)5605 (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/387997)Renz (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/193980)Айхе (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/146308)*осс (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/269388)STAR (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/160023)STAR (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159789)НО*- (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613597)
Лени (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598022)кист (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/2664)Sacr (http://mp3lists.ru/item/2664)Vali (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/564000)рамк (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/104741)сбор (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/460806)авто (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/476971)букв (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/146525)иску (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100911)поду (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/454628)Берд (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/167373)Slim (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/185495)Mist (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/446579)Remb (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108635)Phil (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/10210)
DeLo (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98416)Арти (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/458562)**00 (http://octupolephonon.ru)Боль (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/147996)Семе (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/200767)Лит* (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/147863)фант (http://onesticket.ru/shop/578371)Иллю (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/580288)Лит* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/682246)Лит* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/680938)Флав (http://palmberry.ru/shop/378651)Лит* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/581675)Simm (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/685699)дири (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1167001)Edva (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1167044)
Хрип (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1166013)Цвей (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1168854)Земс (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1538983)Char (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/393062)Danc (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/594023)акте (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/595647)Писк (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1059054)Mikh (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1072292)чита (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/180973)неск (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/477761)МГор (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/513037)Free (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/511794)West (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/792152)Прои (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1077373)разм (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/317713)
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yellowcab
05-16-2026, 10:57 AM
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yellowcab
05-16-2026, 10:59 AM
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