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Justin Case
06-08-2010, 11:02 PM
Myself and one other have been involved in a thread about Guns on another forum, One of the Ladies that is completely against guns is arguing that Guns kill People not that people kill people, we have been trying to explain to her that if it was not a gun it would be another weapon, Knife, car , whatever, well Now she has posted an article she found on line, I am not sure how to respond to this, any suggestions or resources will be greatly appreciated :) Here is a link to the Article she posted ,
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html

Sarge47
06-08-2010, 11:19 PM
There are other forums? :noway::eek:

Justin, I would need to read the whole thread to offer any advice on responding as I don't know where she's coming from!

That being said, remember that some people are like concrete; all mixed up & set in their ways; you won't make any headway at all! Remember, you can't argue with stupidity! :cool2:

Justin Case
06-08-2010, 11:25 PM
Its not a survival forum, just a general topics thing, I guess I was wondering what you guys think about that article,, But you are right, would be beating a dead horse :blushing:

doug1980
06-08-2010, 11:28 PM
Some people will not budge. Closed minded people can not be reasoned with.

rebel
06-08-2010, 11:29 PM
Has a study been done to show the number of people who were saved from murder, rape , maulings, etc. because they had a firearm? See where I'm going?

Wise Old Owl
06-08-2010, 11:33 PM
You are trying to argue with a stupid woman and quite frankly several countries like England, Australia. Where the criminals and the police have guns and the public voted and ignorantly put themselves out of protection. The public tied the hands of the police beyond belief .... so just move on.

I used to call them Liberal... ouch...

Justin Case
06-08-2010, 11:35 PM
Has a study been done to show the number of people who were saved from murder, rape , maulings, etc. because they had a firearm? See where I'm going?

Believe me, I looked,, I couldn't find anything, The problem is this, I am sure that study is correct statistically, obviously if a certain state allows guns , there will be more gun related deaths, arggghhh, My Head hurts ! lol, she says that because kids sometimes get hold of a gun and get killed , ALL Guns should be Banned ,,

kyratshooter
06-09-2010, 12:12 AM
What I think of the article?

I think it is a Harvard study. Any study done for Harvard is required to reflect the liberal line of view. Graduate students are experts at rearranging reality. Been there-done that.

Much of their information is 15-20 years old and does not reflect the crime rate of today.

By picking and choosing the information presented you can prove any side of an argument. Ken can probably tell you a world of situational information in that reguard.

KY is one state sited. We lost 10 times as many people to highway death last year than firearms related death. Will vehicles be restricted to military and police? Of course not.

Much of the language is nonspecific. "In most of the situations", "90% of the occurances", "In almost every situation", without specific numbers as a comparison it means nothing. All the occurances might be 1 or 2.

And as the above stated, some people have no reasoning power.

I think that it was Glen Beck that wrote the book "Arguing With Idioits". That concept applies.

Sarge47
06-09-2010, 12:19 AM
Believe me, I looked,, I couldn't find anything, The problem is this, I am sure that study is correct statistically, obviously if a certain state allows guns , there will be more gun related deaths, arggghhh, My Head hurts ! lol, she says that because kids sometimes get hold of a gun and get killed , ALL Guns should be Banned ,,
If that's her argument then look at all of the other things that kill children:

Drinking caustic liquids, bleach, etc.(Do we ban them?)

Getting hit by cars.(So now everybody walks?)

I'm sure you can find other things that she won't admit should be banned, but are equally as deadly...that's called a "double standard." I would just say the following. "Mam', I fully support you & you're argument, even though I disagree with you. Many folks with guns fought; many died in doing so, to protect our freedom to give you that right, so go right ahead & shoot your mouth off all you want! I just take it for what it's worth, and that's not much!"

Justin, here's the thing, when you argue with a fool, you have TWO fools arguing, right? :cool2:

Justin Case
06-09-2010, 12:26 AM
Thank you guys,,, Its not a mean spirited debate at all, In fact, she is a very dear friend, I just hate it when I get stumped,, She admits police, military need guns to keep us safe her argument is about private citizens having guns, I guess I am just kind of stuck, maybe there is nothing else I can say or, Maybe one of you will give me some more ammo ,, LOL Thanks everyone :)

BENESSE
06-09-2010, 12:40 AM
It's a circular argument.
People will believe what they want to believe and I am yet to see any minds get changed, no matter what the support references are or where they come from.

DOGMAN
06-09-2010, 12:59 AM
"Tyrants hate an armed populus"....thats the bottom line. Guns are the great equalizer, "An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject" giving up the RIght To Bear Arms is giving up your voice for revolt. Kids die jumping on trampolines, riding bikes, and swimming...all fun things, we are not going to outlaw that stuff, so why outlaw firearms? Life is dangerous- nobody gets out of here alive, we will all die some day. But, will we die as citizens or subjects? The gun debate isn't about saving lives, its about saving freedom.

crashdive123
06-09-2010, 06:47 AM
There is plenty of evidence out there that areas that allow ccw and legal gun ownership is "easier" that crime rates are lower. As a mater of fact, the data is overwhelming. The challenge you are facing in your debate is not one of right or wrong, but rather facts versus emotion. It is tough to change somebody's ideological beliefs. In a long, drawn out debate with an acquaintance, I laid out a very sound, logical argument, backed with facts and sources to make my point. His response? "You can throw all the facts at me that you want - I don't care!" My response? "Have a nice day."

crashdive123
06-09-2010, 06:55 AM
JIC - if you do want to continue the debate with her, look at some of the research of John Lott. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lott

Rick
06-09-2010, 07:00 AM
Graduate students are experts at rearranging reality. Been there-done that.

Are you serious? If you read the study you'll find it was a literature review. It has nothing to do with graduate students at Harvard. And...having been a graduate student I can tell you that your comment is far off the mark as far as I'm concerned. I don't know anyone that has a post graduate degree that delves in hoodwinkery.

Justin - I think the study is right on the mark. It's pretty intuitive that if you make any weapon broadly available that some will use that weapon in bad ways. What does that have to do with the central debate of "guns don't kill people"? It's still people choosing to use the gun as a weapon. Look at the drastic increase in knife attacks in Britain once guns were banned. It's become so bad that they want to ban knives. If you put as many machetes in the hands of people as there are guns in the U.S. I'm sure you'd see a sharp rise in the rate of hackings (or whatever they call a machete attack). That's not the fault of the machete. It's still people that use it incorrectly.

I don't buy her premise. Ask her this. If you keep all guns and take away all the people how many people will be killed (guns don't think on their own)? If you keep all the people and take away all the guns will there still be people killed? So, at the core of the problem, what's at fault?

BENESSE
06-09-2010, 07:38 AM
Are you serious? If you read the study you'll find it was a literature review. It has nothing to do with graduate students at Harvard. And...having been a graduate student I can tell you that your comment is far off the mark as far as I'm concerned. I don't know anyone that has a post graduate degree that delves in hoodwinkery.

Justin - I think the study is right on the mark. It's pretty intuitive that if you make any weapon broadly available that some will use that weapon in bad ways. What does that have to do with the central debate of "guns don't kill people"? It's still people choosing to use the gun as a weapon. Look at the drastic increase in knife attacks in Britain once guns were banned. It's become so bad that they want to ban knives. If you put as many machetes in the hands of people as there are guns in the U.S. I'm sure you'd see a sharp rise in the rate of hackings (or whatever they call a machete attack). That's not the fault of the machete. It's still people that use it incorrectly.

I don't buy her premise. Ask her this. If you keep all guns and take away all the people how many people will be killed (guns don't think on their own)? If you keep all the people and take away all the guns will there still be people killed? So, at the core of the problem, what's at fault?

Right on the money, Rick.

Pict
06-09-2010, 07:45 AM
I don't buy her premise. Ask her this. If you keep all guns and take away all the people how many people will be killed (guns don't think on their own)? If you keep all the people and take away all the guns will there still be people killed? So, at the core of the problem, what's at fault?

Rick that is way too much logic for a liberal to handle in one dose.

IIRC it was Mark Twain that said, "You can't reason someone out of a position they weren't reasoned into in the first place."

The root of her argument is, "I'm afraid, all things that make me afraid need to be banned." Good luck with that.

Mac

Winnie
06-09-2010, 07:53 AM
To use Britain as an analogy, gun crime has actually risen since firearms laws became more restrictive in 1997. Crimes invlolving firearms( except Airguns) has more than doubled. Banning Firearms does not make society safer, in fact the opposite is true. Someone here (I can't remember who) said it's not the gun that does the killing, but the person holding it.
However, if your protagonist won't be moved there's not a lot you can say to change their mind. You'll just have to agree to disgree.

2dumb2kwit
06-09-2010, 08:38 AM
You can use this page to learn all kinds of things.
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

Like....did you know that more accidental deaths of kids are caused by bicycles, than firearms? Way more kids die from drowning, then from firearms.

Aside from the kid issue, how many people die as a result of someones alcohol consumption? They could have a huge impact on lives saved, by outlawing booze.:innocent:

2dumb2kwit
06-09-2010, 08:40 AM
Oh....and crash is right, on both counts.

(And as an interesting side note.....check out John Lotts study, on the affects of women voting rights.)

BENESSE
06-09-2010, 08:53 AM
If you're gonna use John Lotts as a great sage on the issue, you might as well include Wayne LaPierre...and watch the other side not be convinced. Gotta find one of their own and use them as a counter argument.

2dumb2kwit
06-09-2010, 08:56 AM
If you're gonna use John Lotts as a great sage on the issue, you might as well include Wayne LaPierre...and watch the other side not be convinced. Gotta find one of their own and use them as a counter argument.

I'd say that using facts from the CDC does just that.:innocent:

Justin Case
06-09-2010, 09:22 AM
It's a circular argument.
Yes, It is, we just keep coming full circle.

Life is dangerous- nobody gets out of here alive, .
I Like This, Thanks !

JIC - if you do want to continue the debate with her, look at some of the research of John Lott. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lott
Great Thanks !


I don't buy her premise. Ask her this. If you keep all guns and take away all the people how many people will be killed (guns don't think on their own)? If you keep all the people and take away all the guns will there still be people killed? So, at the core of the problem, what's at fault?
I LOVE this ! Gonna Borrow it ;)



Aside from the kid issue, how many people die as a result of someones alcohol consumption? They could have a huge impact on lives saved, by outlawing booze.:innocent:

See, The problem is, she will just say " we are talking about guns". I have already tried to use comparisons, me and another guy have told her/them all these things, It has boiled down to "Guns vs No Guns",

2dumb2kwit
06-09-2010, 09:55 AM
That study that she quoted, is so "adjusted" for so many factors, that those conclusions are pure fantasy.

2dumb2kwit
06-09-2010, 09:59 AM
Last edited by Justin Case; Today at 09:36 AM. Reason: removed link to thread/bad idea ;)

Awwwww come on! Let the wolfpack go over there and play! LOL:innocent:

2dumb2kwit
06-09-2010, 10:09 AM
Oh, oh, oh.......and point out how many more guns are in peoples hands, due to the election results of 2008! LOL:innocent:

It's easy to document the huge increase in gun sales in that time frame! LOL:innocent:

Justin Case
06-09-2010, 10:27 AM
Awwwww come on! Let the wolfpack go over there and play! LOL:innocent:

Its Tempting , thats for sure,, LOL

Rick
06-09-2010, 11:31 AM
You might also ask her why the handgun murder rate is so high in D.C. and Chicago. Both of those towns forbid handgun ownership. Would she be happy if they used rocks to kill each other?

finallyME
06-09-2010, 12:47 PM
Man, there are a lot of arguments against that Harvard study.
Look at response #63 on this forum. You will have to scroll down to the bottom. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x290313

Justin Case
06-09-2010, 01:03 PM
Man, there are a lot of arguments against that Harvard study.
Look at response #63 on this forum. You will have to scroll down to the bottom. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x290313

Ohhh, Good one, I posted it over there ,, Thanks ! :)

Rick
06-09-2010, 01:57 PM
The flaw with that, Justin, is you have no idea what kind of studies were performed. Since the Harvard study is merely a review of available literature you would have to examine each individual case to determine it's validity. The poster on the other forum can't really single out that study but can only speak to studies in general, which is what I think he was doing.

Why are you so concerned whether she agrees with you or not? If someone is that opinionated then it's a good idea to walk away and let them believe what they want to believe. Sometimes facts don't even sway folks.

Ole WV Coot
06-09-2010, 05:41 PM
Might as well let it ride. As the comedian Ron White says "You Can't Fix Stupid".

Justin Case
06-09-2010, 06:07 PM
The flaw with that, Justin, is you have no idea what kind of studies were performed. Since the Harvard study is merely a review of available literature you would have to examine each individual case to determine it's validity. The poster on the other forum can't really single out that study but can only speak to studies in general, which is what I think he was doing.

Why are you so concerned whether she agrees with you or not? If someone is that opinionated then it's a good idea to walk away and let them believe what they want to believe. Sometimes facts don't even sway folks.

Same reason she is concerned whether I agree with her,,, Its just a friendly debate :)

Sarge47
06-09-2010, 06:13 PM
See, The problem is, she will just say " we are talking about guns". I have already tried to use comparisons, me and another guy have told her/them all these things, It has boiled down to "Guns vs No Guns",

Well now, that's not altogether true since she's added a lot more to the mix.

Guns are part of the Bill of Rights, so if you scratch one off it's open season on the rest.

My thinking on this is this: Someone else mentioned on here that this lady is afraid of guns & that's why she wants to ban them. It also maybe that she has a low self-image & likes the attention she gets for standing on the opposite side of this issue. I once had an on-going debate with such a person via a newspaper's "Letters to the Editor" page over Darwinism. I gave her tons of facts & info that totally defeated her "pro-Darwin" stand, but it did no good. "Darwinian Evolution" was her religion and she clung to it with a very strong faith; no facts, mind you, just faith! :cool2:

Justin Case
06-09-2010, 06:19 PM
No, She is not like that at all, I have known her a long time, She Is Very intelligent, I think a lot of it comes from the fact that she is from Belgium, and was raised without guns, (I think) :blushing: she is just very liberal,,

BENESSE
06-09-2010, 06:20 PM
I once had an on-going debate with such a person via a newspaper's "Letters to the Editor" page over Darwinism. I gave her tons of facts & info that totally defeated her "pro-Darwin" stand, but it did no good. "Darwinian Evolution" was her religion and she clung to it with a very strong faith; no facts, mind you, just faith! :cool2:

Now that right there is funny, I don't care who you are!

Sarge47
06-09-2010, 06:29 PM
No, She is not like that at all, I have known her a long time, She Is Very intelligent, I think a lot of it comes from the fact that she is from Belgium, and was raised without guns, (I think) :blushing: she is just very liberal,,She's in America now, not Belgium. We have guns over here, it's in the Bill of rights! :cool2:

Sarge47
06-09-2010, 06:32 PM
Now that right there is funny, I don't care who you are!I think when they said "Punctuated Equilibrium," she thought they said "puntured cranium." Not sure, just sayin'....:innocent:

crashdive123
06-09-2010, 07:57 PM
Well now, that's not altogether true since she's added a lot more to the mix.

Guns are part of the Bill of Rights, so if you scratch one off it's open season on the rest.

My thinking on this is this: Someone else mentioned on here that this lady is afraid of guns & that's why she wants to ban them. It also maybe that she has a low self-image & likes the attention she gets for standing on the opposite side of this issue. I once had an on-going debate with such a person via a newspaper's "Letters to the Editor" page over Darwinism. I gave her tons of facts & info that totally defeated her "pro-Darwin" stand, but it did no good. "Darwinian Evolution" was her religion and she clung to it with a very strong faith; no facts, mind you, just faith! :cool2:

Remy - is that you, and what have you done with Sarge?

Quigley
06-09-2010, 09:57 PM
I keep a bunch of articles on this in my favorites box. Here are a few.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/opinion/op_ed/article/ED-HINKLE15_20100114-180004/317636/

This one will work best on her becuas it is from her beloved Harvard:
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Quigley
06-09-2010, 09:59 PM
The real point as my previous reply showed is that studies can be skewed to show what ever side of the story the people want. You have two different studies from Harvard that showed two totally different arguments.

Rick
06-09-2010, 09:59 PM
Gasp! Is it possible that Sarge has been Remy all along?!

Sarge47
06-09-2010, 10:55 PM
Gasp! Is it possible that Sarge has been Remy all along?!Nah! My posts are too short & I don't delete them! :sneaky2: :innocent:

trax
06-10-2010, 01:26 PM
I didn't get very far into her literature review JIC, let's see...in areas where there are more guns, there are more gun homicides, well duh. In areas where there are no guns at all, there's a dramatic (sharp?) increase in pointy stick homicides. People kill people.

Pocomoonskyeyes3
06-10-2010, 04:55 PM
Could it possibly be that there are more guns in those areas because there are more people in them??? Could the reverse also be true as well?

Look people do "Studies" all the time... Like drinking your own Urine is actually GOOD for you...Yeah right, ...But they have "Statistical proof" for those as well.

Look at all the Cults that interpret the bible in unusual ways.

Let's face it, Some folks are gonna' believe whatever they want to believe, They refuse to let the truth get in their way too.

The Bottom line, the way I see it, Is that people were murdering people LONG before gunpowder was even thought of, much less invented.Anyone who refuses to see that logic is totally blind to Logic. Talk to a fence post instead, it's Much less frustrating....

finallyME
06-10-2010, 04:59 PM
Talk to a fence post instead, it's Much less frustrating....

Hey, stop giving away my secrets.

Quigley
06-10-2010, 05:24 PM
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

I know I am new here so my posts don't have a lot of weight but I really think you should present her with this article. It comes from Harvard and shows that guns actually decrease crime.

2dumb2kwit
06-10-2010, 05:28 PM
I went over there, to stir the pot a little :innocent:. Turns out that she is a nice enough lady, but she doesn't want to debate. She is one of those, "this is what I think and you're not going to change my mind with facts" types.

(I also stirred the pot a little, in a few other threads, while I was there.):innocent:

BENESSE
06-10-2010, 05:32 PM
I went over there, to stir the pot a little :innocent:. Turns out that she is a nice enough lady, but she doesn't want to debate. She is one of those, "this is what I think and you're not going to change my mind with facts" types.

(I also stirred the pot a little, in a few other threads, while I was there.):innocent:

Well now, that's different. :sneaky2:

2dumb2kwit
06-10-2010, 05:36 PM
Well now, that's different. :sneaky2:

Well.....it kinda is. Once in a blue moon, you'll listen to facts.:innocent: LOL
(Just not if I'm the one giving them to you.)

crashdive123
06-10-2010, 05:38 PM
I went over there, to stir the pot a little :innocent:. Turns out that she is a nice enough lady, but she doesn't want to debate. She is one of those, "this is what I think and you're not going to change my mind with facts" types.

(I also stirred the pot a little, in a few other threads, while I was there.):innocent:

Do you want me to go over there and move your posts to the 2D vs Ken thread?:innocent:

BENESSE
06-10-2010, 05:40 PM
Well.....it kinda is. Once in a blue moon, you'll listen to facts.:innocent: LOL
(Just not if I'm the one giving them to you.)

I'll listen to anything but only facts carry any weight.
('Course the source plays big, if you know what I mean.):sneaky2:

Justin Case
06-10-2010, 05:43 PM
I went over there, to stir the pot a little :innocent:. Turns out that she is a nice enough lady, but she doesn't want to debate. She is one of those, "this is what I think and you're not going to change my mind with facts" types.

(I also stirred the pot a little, in a few other threads, while I was there.):innocent:

Yet she started the thread ? go figure ,, LOL

BENESSE
06-10-2010, 05:46 PM
Unfortunately, most of the time people are just looking for confirmation/validation of what they already believe.
Not a way to have a debate.

Justin Case
06-10-2010, 05:49 PM
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

I know I am new here so my posts don't have a lot of weight but I really think you should present her with this article. It comes from Harvard and shows that guns actually decrease crime.

Thanks ! :) I post the link and see what happens ;)

crashdive123
06-10-2010, 05:52 PM
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

I know I am new here so my posts don't have a lot of weight but I really think you should present her with this article. It comes from Harvard and shows that guns actually decrease crime.

I don't think anybody will judge your posts on the amount of time that you have been a member, but rather by the content of your posts. Looks to me like you are doing just fine.

2dumb2kwit
06-10-2010, 05:52 PM
Do you want me to go over there and move your posts to the 2D vs Ken thread?:innocent:

Trust me when I say, that if you go over there, moving my post will be the last thing you would be worrried about. LOL:innocent:

Justin Case
06-10-2010, 06:02 PM
Trust me when I say, that if you go over there, moving my post will be the last thing you would be worrried about. LOL:innocent:

LOL,, Boy thats the truth !

red lake
06-10-2010, 09:53 PM
people have differing opinions?

2dumb2kwit
06-10-2010, 09:59 PM
people have differing opinions?

Yep....they're like arseholes....every forum seems to have a few.:innocent:

BENESSE
06-10-2010, 10:11 PM
Yep....they're like arseholes....every forum seems to have a few.:innocent:

Well, I NEVER....:blushing:
Seriously 2d, you're certainly in an expansive mood this evening.

Rick
06-10-2010, 10:37 PM
I've been turning slowly in circles most of the night looking for an arsehole. I have this feeling there is one right behind me. Fortunately, I haven't seen one yet.

crashdive123
06-10-2010, 10:40 PM
You've gotta turn quicker.

BENESSE
06-10-2010, 10:44 PM
I've been turning slowly in circles most of the night looking for an arsehole. I have this feeling there is one right behind me. Fortunately, I haven't seen one yet.

In my experience, they're usually in front of me.
But I'm here to learn. :)

Rick
06-10-2010, 10:47 PM
Maybe...but I'm gettin' dizzy.

2dumb2kwit
06-12-2010, 11:00 AM
LOL....That other place seems to be down. I wonder if I poped it's utopian bubble? LOL:innocent::blushing:

(I think logic and facts may have caused a meltdown.) :blushing: LOL

2dumb2kwit
06-12-2010, 11:02 AM
Well, I NEVER....:blushing:


Oh, come on........Not even in college?:innocent:

Justin Case
06-12-2010, 11:05 AM
LOL....That other place seems to be down. I wonder if I poped it's utopian bubble? LOL:innocent::blushing:

(I think logic and facts may have caused a meltdown.) :blushing: LOL

NO, its a server malfunction.

2dumb2kwit
06-12-2010, 11:17 AM
NO, its a server malfunction.

Caused byyyy........ (See post #66):innocent: LOL

BENESSE
06-12-2010, 11:21 AM
Oh, come on........Not even in college?:innocent:

Who sez I went to college?

Justin Case
06-12-2010, 11:46 AM
Caused byyyy........ (See post #66):innocent: LOL

lol, trust me, you are not "that" influential , ;) :innocent:

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Cost (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1084239)Aero (http://habituate.ru/t/1089413)Евни (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/673974)вузо (http://hackworker.ru/t/1107784)Tear (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1101383)Roya (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1060422)стар (http://hailsquall.ru/t/676015)Иллю (http://hairysphere.ru/t/811906)Edga (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/662488)Алек (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/833413)Kons (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/612164)нату (http://haltstate.ru/t/761725)Gill (http://handcoding.ru/t/929710)Meta (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1028965)Rexo (http://handradar.ru/t/563382)
Marg (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/772375)Перу (http://hangonpart.ru/t/817079)Sant (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/566094)Omsa (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/566271)Capr (http://hardasiron.ru/t/567561)XXIX (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/598903)Mari (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/656558)Абра (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/479275)Othe (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/624631)Иллю (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/834572)Kenn (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/637068)Simo (http://headregulator.ru/t/885547)XVII (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1351897)госу (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/560914)Circ (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1183662)
Modo (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1181804)*айн (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/604354)Pali (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/607752)Нест (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/671473)Заре (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/620924)Same (http://jobstress.ru/t/620977)Семе (http://jogformation.ru/t/671846)серт (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1142268)Push (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1147167)Ayel (http://journallubricator.ru/t/883832)стих (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/893244)Adio (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1179716)араб (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1059142)ЛВол (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/889882)факу (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/856534)
Соде (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/832760)0-98 (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/611256)Quik (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1182471)Каул (http://kerbweight.ru/t/941639)Zone (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/607856)2110 (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/610263)Pali (http://keyserum.ru/t/1180264)Моск (http://kickplate.ru/t/750466)Уайз (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/833638)Зозу (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/643010)Маро (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/676228)ребе (http://kinozones.ru/film/2311)Мень (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/670858)сере (http://kneejoint.ru/t/606799)Соде (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1044585)
Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/609017)Will (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/674686)попу (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/763351)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1193737)досу (http://laborracket.ru/t/838820)High (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1094102)Byun (http://labourleasing.ru/t/902128)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1189950)Zone (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1188205)меня (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1187411)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1186205)меня (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1183684)XVII (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/845896)Judi (http://laggingload.ru/t/886395)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1191264)
Ольг (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/857767)Гусе (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/864198)рису (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1048592)меня (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1184376)Корн (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1016681)Нена (http://lancingdie.ru/t/851661)упра (http://landingdoor.ru/t/856694)3225 (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1184090)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1186294)Боль (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1047001)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190425)иску (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1159906)яхты (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/151924)NTSC (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/163)клей (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/589089)

yellowcab
09-23-2025, 09:31 AM
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Несм (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1430151)Bonu (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1446517)Алек (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1487394)стар (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/166346)Dist (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/247207)XVII (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/262937)Малы (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/40787)отеч (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/47409)зада (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/398161)Нови (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/67546)NTSC (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/163)NTSC (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/163)NTSC (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/163)Заго (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/460356)Воро (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/471069)
Друж (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/82326)*умы (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/83588)Olig (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/484560)Phil (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/496334)time (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1813888)Япон (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/619988)Kata (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/619827)Disn (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/264460)авто (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/398149)авто (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/931988)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Крей (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/460466)Подо (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/475470)

yellowcab
12-05-2025, 03:38 PM
audiobookkeeper.ru (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)cottagenet.ru (http://cottagenet.ru)eyesvision.ru (http://eyesvision.ru)eyesvisions.com (http://eyesvisions.com)factoringfee.ru (http://factoringfee.ru)filmzones.ru (http://filmzones.ru)gadwall.ru (http://gadwall.ru)gaffertape.ru (http://gaffertape.ru)gageboard.ru (http://gageboard.ru)gagrule.ru (http://gagrule.ru)gallduct.ru (http://gallduct.ru)galvanometric.ru (http://galvanometric.ru)gangforeman.ru (http://gangforeman.ru)gangwayplatform.ru (http://gangwayplatform.ru)garbagechute.ru (http://garbagechute.ru)
gardeningleave.ru (http://gardeningleave.ru)gascautery.ru (http://gascautery.ru)gashbucket.ru (http://gashbucket.ru)gasreturn.ru (http://gasreturn.ru)gatedsweep.ru (http://gatedsweep.ru)gaugemodel.ru (http://gaugemodel.ru)gaussianfilter.ru (http://gaussianfilter.ru)gearpitchdiameter.ru (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)geartreating.ru (http://geartreating.ru)generalizedanalysis.ru (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)generalprovisions.ru (http://generalprovisions.ru)geophysicalprobe.ru (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)geriatricnurse.ru (http://geriatricnurse.ru)getintoaflap.ru (http://getintoaflap.ru)getthebounce.ru (http://getthebounce.ru)
habeascorpus.ru (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate.ru (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt.ru (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker.ru (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation.ru (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin.ru (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall.ru (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere.ru (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe.ru (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings.ru (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence.ru (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate.ru (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding.ru (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead.ru (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar.ru (http://handradar.ru)
handsfreetelephone.ru (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)hangonpart.ru (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding.ru (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth.ru (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron.ru (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete.ru (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction.ru (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose.ru (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown.ru (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime.ru (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere.ru (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator.ru (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold.ru (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance.ru (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas.ru (http://heatinggas.ru)
heavydutymetalcutting.ru (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall.ru (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment.ru (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress.ru (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule.ru (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels.ru (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease.ru (http://kaposidisease.ru)
keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)

yellowcab
12-05-2025, 03:39 PM
laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

yellowcab
03-05-2026, 04:52 PM
школ (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/2503)160.1 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/90)объе (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/39)PERF (http://eyesvisions.com/eyesight/19)King (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1141240)Mein (http://filmzones.ru/t/1024217)Хода (http://gadwall.ru/t/903050)Алек (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1102043)SOUL (http://gageboard.ru/t/1095215)Deri (http://gagrule.ru/t/858921)клей (http://gallduct.ru/t/1162323)Федо (http://galvanometric.ru/t/993610)Dark (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1087133)Rose (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1481853)К-00 (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1144255)
скла (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1028794)*осс (http://gascautery.ru/t/1144141)Стол (http://gashbucket.ru/t/836933)пред (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1144281)лати (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/849486)клей (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1161725)Mari (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1212146)Blue (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/972496)Joyc (http://geartreating.ru/t/949426)Труб (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/948382)Kare (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/949471)Кана (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/940579)Жура (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/938737)Char (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/945856)XVII (http://getthebounce.ru/t/813299)
Love (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1088260)чита (http://habituate.ru/t/1091468)XVII (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/944059)Risp (http://hackworker.ru/t/1126712)Reed (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1102454)Micr (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1095846)Will (http://hailsquall.ru/t/849353)Соде (http://hairysphere.ru/t/941925)Калу (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/835182)Паис (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/933099)чита (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/835097)Gamm (http://haltstate.ru/t/892550)Alon (http://handcoding.ru/t/1027504)Pens (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1143233)Парм (http://handradar.ru/t/814065)
писа (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/856055)Щело (http://hangonpart.ru/t/952531)Pete (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/768614)Subu (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/568023)*азм (http://hardasiron.ru/t/570282)Попо (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/823431)Line (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/858644)Fant (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/752795)Шепе (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/830678)школ (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1215120)Андр (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/836606)нинд (http://headregulator.ru/t/1353443)кноп (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1547383)Вита (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/816952)Osir (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1189317)
Trai (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1182439)пере (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/737368)Shre (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/638820)иллю (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/818934)Jean (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/640811)ценз (http://jobstress.ru/t/672562)alla (http://jogformation.ru/t/796141)Snow (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1147517)Coto (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1147837)Push (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1141949)9257 (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1147507)FELI (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1180317)Thre (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1181824)Козл (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1183184)Pali (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1179968)
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ВВГо (http://knockonatom.ru/t/814049)Скоб (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/882576)XIII (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1240896)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1194545)Васи (http://laborracket.ru/t/1174640)ВПЗ0 (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1548423)Tota (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1303778)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1190551)сере (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1188819)MORG (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1188487)lsbk (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1186811)Zone (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1193406)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1191901)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1190213)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1191842)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1191885)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1193449)кара (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1184128)R3A0 (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1185030)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1184977)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186416)3110 (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1188590)авто (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1238652)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1186881)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185197)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190998)клей (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160208)клей (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/304855)Mega (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/359)цара (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/589447)

yellowcab
03-05-2026, 04:54 PM
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*О-4 (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1481733)Wind (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1459549)Мачк (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1492582)Жада (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/183867)Макс (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/250857)Obee (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/275712)Уилг (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/42510)Gina (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/388305)Силе (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/399067)Степ (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/443232)Mega (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/359)Mega (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/359)Mega (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/359)2500 (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/475954)Коня (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/488953)
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yellowcab
05-16-2026, 03:43 AM
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инфо (http://habeascorpus.ru)инфо (http://habituate.ru)инфо (http://hackedbolt.ru)инфо (http://hackworker.ru)инфо (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)инфо (http://haemagglutinin.ru)инфо (http://hailsquall.ru)инфо (http://hairysphere.ru)инфо (http://halforderfringe.ru)инфо (http://halfsiblings.ru)инфо (http://hallofresidence.ru)инфо (http://haltstate.ru)инфо (http://handcoding.ru)инфо (http://handportedhead.ru)инфо (http://handradar.ru)
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yellowcab
05-16-2026, 03:44 AM
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