View Full Version : BP Oil
I do if you send it to me. Is that what you meant?
2dumb2kwit
06-16-2010, 08:07 AM
I do if you send it to me. Is that what you meant?
Yeah....that's it. Why don't you go stand by the mailbox, and wait for the check.:innocent: LOL
nell67
06-16-2010, 09:13 AM
Sue my employer for not giving me a safe place to work. Have you ever read your employee handbook, dude?
You don't seem to see the difference here. This isn't someone on the street. They aren't protesters. They are EMPLOYEES of a large corporation, brought there to do a job. They are allotted the same rights as any other employee in the USA. Just like road crews can't talk to the media when they are working on a highway project. It's UNSAFE. If the employees wished to be interviewed, they are more than capable of walking the...what...100 yards to the mass of media personnel to speak up.
Dude isn't derogatory...and I don't even think I used it.
Chic IS derogatory and I know you used that.
Not taking his side Trabitha,but it looks like you did:winkiss:
BENESSE
06-16-2010, 09:16 AM
Before people get carried away, wanting to destroy BP....they need to follow the money.
Who benifits from what action?:innocent:
Don't know...:innocent:...let's bankrupt them and find out.
(If we don't then their lawyers will for sure.)
2dumb2kwit
06-16-2010, 09:32 AM
Don't know...:innocent:...let's bankrupt them and find out.
(If we don't then their lawyers will for sure.)
If you're talking about BP, you're looking in the wrong direction.
...and why would you want to bankrupt them? Do you understand how many people you're talking about destroying, financially, that had nothing to do with the spill???
2dumb2kwit
06-16-2010, 09:33 AM
Did y'all know???
Federal law has also hampered the assistance. The Jones Act, the maritime law that requires all goods be carried in U.S. waters by U.S.-flagged ships, has prevented Dutch ships with spill-fighting equipment from entering U.S. coastal areas.
Three days after the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico, the Dutch government offered to help.
It was willing to provide ships outfitted with oil-skimming booms, and it proposed a plan for building sand barriers to protect sensitive marshlands.
The response from the Obama administration and BP, which are coordinating the cleanup: “The embassy got a nice letter from the administration that said, ‘Thanks, but no thanks,'” said Geert Visser, consul general for the Netherlands in Houston.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/7043272.html
BENESSE
06-16-2010, 09:44 AM
If you're talking about BP, you're looking in the wrong direction.
...and why would you want to bankrupt them? Do you understand how many people you're talking about destroying, financially, that had nothing to do with the spill???
That's how it always works, doesn't it? Innocent people get screwed no matter what.
The same argument was used to justify bailing out Wall St. and a bunch of people went apoplectic over it. Hey, everyone has the right to be hypocritical at will but it does dilute the argument.
2dumb2kwit
06-16-2010, 09:56 AM
That's how it always works, doesn't it? Innocent people get screwed no matter what.
The same argument was used to justify bailing out Wall St. and a bunch of people went apoplectic over it. Hey, everyone has the right to be hypocritical at will but it does dilute the argument.
Apples and oranges.
I didn't say give them a pass. Hold them responsible for the bill. If that breaks them, then so be it. Just plain wanting to break them is not going to help anyone. Think about it....if you break them, who gets stuck with the bill???
Justin Case
06-16-2010, 10:04 AM
I wonder if BP had insurance for this ?
DOGMAN
06-16-2010, 10:26 AM
Dude isn't derogatory...
Actually, in western cowboy and hunting guide culture, "dude" is very derogatory. A dude, is a city slicker, who pays money to experience a water downed version of what a cowboy or guide does for a living. If a co-worker calls you "dude"...it could lead to blows!
example- in reference to someone who may own a 5 acre ranchette, have a horse and always wears a giant 10-gallon cowboy hat..."that dude is all hat and no cattle"...its basically calling someone a poser, or greenhorn
crashdive123
06-16-2010, 10:44 AM
And before we get too hung up on words - he said chic, not chick.
From Wiki:
Chic (pronounced /ˈʃiːk/ "sheek"), meaning 'stylish' or 'smart', is an element of fashion and the counterpart of posh.
Alaskan Survivalist
06-16-2010, 10:59 AM
Meanwhile the oil keeps flowing into the gulf. Is anybody focused on the problem?
Justin Case
06-16-2010, 11:06 AM
And before we get too hung up on words - he said chic, not chick.
From Wiki:
Yeah Thats what i meant :innocent: and Trabitha probably meant to say "Dud" :innocent: :) ;)
BENESSE
06-16-2010, 12:58 PM
Meanwhile the oil keeps flowing into the gulf. Is anybody focused on the problem?
No, not even those who are supposed to.
Justin Case
06-16-2010, 01:46 PM
Yeah,, BP will fix iT :innocent:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPnFVTP2414&feature=player_embedded
this is sad but true.
BP just agreed to allocate 20 Billion for those who are affected by the spill. Does anyone remember that 20 Billion was their expected profit this year?
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Broadcast/obama-speech-oval-office-focuses-making-bp-pay/story?id=10927625
BENESSE
06-16-2010, 04:30 PM
BP just agreed to allocate 20 Billion for those who are affected by the spill. Does anyone remember that 20 Billion was their expected profit this year?
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Broadcast/obama-speech-oval-office-focuses-making-bp-pay/story?id=10927625
Don't get me started. :sneaky2: Oh wait, I think I already have. So...yes, I do remember that which means what, they just won't make any profit this year but other than that everything is copacetic?
Alaskan Survivalist
06-16-2010, 05:00 PM
Regulation and oversight is needed but beyond damages no punitive measures are useful. "Evil Corporations" are invested in by stock holders like individuals and pension funds. The money will come out of ordinary peoples pensions and besides the price of doing business is just added to the price you pay at the pump. I consider myself an environmentalist and I think the size of these projects should be limited in size to limit size of catastrophy.
2dumb2kwit
06-16-2010, 05:06 PM
Regulation and oversight is needed but beyond damages no punitive measures are useful. "Evil Corporations" are invested in by stock holders like individuals and pension funds. The money will come out of ordinary peoples pensions and besides the price of doing business is just added to the price you pay at the pump. I consider myself an environmentalist and I think the size of these projects should be limited in size to limit size of catastrophy.
You bring up a point, that I have been wondering about. I'm sure that they are regulated to death, but I haven't heard much about Federal inspections, and checking to see that they were operating within compliance.
Also, you don't hear much about where the drilling rigs and people who work on them, are going, now that no new drilling is being allowed, in U.S. waters. (And who stands to gain financially, from this.)
BENESSE
06-16-2010, 05:09 PM
Regulation and oversight is needed but beyond damages no punitive measures are useful. "Evil Corporations" are invested in by stock holders like individuals and pension funds. The money will come out of ordinary peoples pensions and besides the price of doing business is just added to the price you pay at the pump. I consider myself an environmentalist and I think the size of these projects should be limited in size to limit size of catastrophy.
No punitive damages for the worst environmental disaster in US history?! What would it take to warrant that in your mind, AS?
1st. No money will come out of pensions. It doesn't work that way. They cut their dividend in order to preserve their cash flow.
2nd. There is no such thing as "Evil Corporations". There are unethical executives that steer a corporation the wrong direction. But a corporation is neither evil nor good. Point the finger at the real cause of this tragedy. Carl-Henric Svanberg is the Chairman of BP. However, Tony Hayward is the CEO and is ultimately responsible for the mess.
As to the inspection, the U.S. Energy and Commerce Committee has asked the DOI for the actual inspection documents to determine if any culpability exists with regard to the inspections. BP's position has been that key safety checks were completed just hours before the disaster. However, an attorney representing some of the survivors says that isn't true. So who knows?
Re: the drilling ban. Some of the drilling companies have sued the DOI in an effort to resume drilling. I can't imagine this ban lasting very long. The petroleum lobby is pressing hard to have it lifted as are lawmakers. Imagine if you were the governor of Louisiana. You have Gulf Coast folks loosing revenue from fishing and recreation as well as all the associated companies for those two industries and now all the gas and oil employees are out of work. I'd bet the ban gets lifted pronto.
2dumb2kwit
06-16-2010, 07:34 PM
This just in: breaking news!!
B.P. has stopped the oil leak in the gulf.
They put a wedding band on it and it stopped putting out.
I just read the details in the 20B compensation fund. It will be paid out over 4 years. So...They're 20B profit will take a hit of $5B this year. The tax write off for expenses associated with the spill should more than offset that. Add to that the fact they cut this quarter's dividend to shareholders. They should be in the pink or black as it were...literally.
BENESSE
06-16-2010, 08:06 PM
I just read the details in the 20B compensation fund. It will be paid out over 4 years. So...They're 20B profit will take a hit of $5B this year. The tax write off for expenses associated with the spill should more than offset that. Add to that the fact they cut this quarter's dividend to shareholders. They should be in the pink or black as it were...literally.
Not very far for 2D to follow the money.:sneaky2:
Trabitha
06-16-2010, 09:11 PM
Not to mention that the administration made a point of saying that this agreement is not a cap. I fully expect them to go back to BP often and push an increase. The only question will be...how far will BP get pushed before they say no-more?
Considering our government turned down help from 15 nations and never asked other oil companies to help out...I see them going after BP for everything they can get and then trying to force it in the court system. But that's just my opinion.
Trabitha
06-16-2010, 09:11 PM
This just in: breaking news!!
B.P. has stopped the oil leak in the gulf.
They put a wedding band on it and it stopped putting out.
:sneaky2: Hey now...
Alaskan Survivalist
06-16-2010, 10:24 PM
No punitive damages for the worst environmental disaster in US history?! What would it take to warrant that in your mind, AS?
The knowledge that it would effectively change the way things are done which can be done without us paying more at the pump. Who is really at fault? I know they have the deep pockets and stood to profit but some guy some where did not do his job and I bet he does not have 20 billion dollars.
KurtistheTurtle
06-16-2010, 10:48 PM
This just in: breaking news!!
B.P. has stopped the oil leak in the gulf.
They put a wedding band on it and it stopped putting out.
hahaha! this is KILLING me! brilliant!
don't let them fool you. a wedding ring is the world's smallest handcuff!
Rick, where do you get your information and how do you have such a well-rounded point of view?
BENESSE
06-16-2010, 11:00 PM
The knowledge that it would effectively change the way things are done which can be done without us paying more at the pump. Who is really at fault? I know they have the deep pockets and stood to profit but some guy some where did not do his job and I bet he does not have 20 billion dollars.
There are consequences for everything.
With whomever the buck stops (and it usually stops somewhere with someone) is the one responsible. That's how it works.
The Europeans are paying at least $6 a gallon and that's what we'll have to wrap or minds around. I don't have a car so I don't care. I've given up a lot to be in this position (compromised a great deal) so if someone else has to compromise too, well...welcome to my world.
There's no free lunch--big corporations, or just you and me. But then you know that already, AS.
Alaskan Survivalist
06-16-2010, 11:17 PM
There are consequences for everything.
With whomever the buck stops (and it usually stops somewhere with someone) is the one responsible. That's how it works.
The Europeans are paying at least $6 a gallon and that's what we'll have to wrap or minds around. I don't have a car so I don't care. I've given up a lot to be in this position (compromised a great deal) so if someone else has to compromise too, well...welcome to my world.
There's no free lunch--big corporations, or just you and me. But then you know that already, AS.
It's not just driving cars. Food production depends on oil from pesticides to fertilizer to shipping and the plastic bags it is put in. The money systems are so connected we pay for it all. It may make you feel good but you will only be sueing yourself and handing more authority over to the government. We are being played. Countries around the world offered to help that have the equipment and expertise to fix this and were denied. This is another power grab and could have been stopped immediately. The powers that be don't care but they know we do and are manipulating the situation for political gain.
2dumb2kwit
06-17-2010, 07:04 AM
Not very far for 2D to follow the money.:sneaky2:
Hmmmm....lets see. $20B that would ahve been profit....now it's not. Yeah, that was probably their plan. I don't know why all the corp.'s aren't doing it.:innocent:
KTT - I scan the headlines a few times a day and then research those items that peak my curiosity or interest. I seek out conflicting thoughts on a subject so I can see both sides of the issue. If I read an article that is in favor of banning deep water drilling then I also look for one that supports it. If I have a strong opinion on a subject then I look for strong opinions counter to mine. I think it's dangerous to only look for documentation that supports your line of thought. How can you learn from that? You can only have a real opinion once you've examined all sides of an issue and understand the pros and cons.
The other thing you have to do is think through the issue. Early on I read that BP might spend upwards of $20B on this spill. I wondered what they expected to net this year and how that would impact their bottom line. It isn't just BP that gets impacted, it's also shareholders, you and me. I was surprised to find analysts projected a $20B profit this year. Then I was curious how they would set up the pay out since no company would want to wipe out their profit margin. On the same day, they announce a four year pay out ($5B per year) and they cut dividends. Actually, pretty brilliant on their end to negotiate that type of payout since the time value of money means they pay out less each year considering inflation. They aren't paying out $20 Billion in today's dollars. Add to that the fact that cutting the dividend payout means they hold on to all the cash they would have paid out. Coupled with tax right offs that are into the Billions almost ensures a profit this year. On top of the country's largest environmental disaster!!! So now watch three things....deep water drilling ban, which I've already said will be lifted in the near term, punitive damages, and BP advertising. Those are the three things I'll be looking at ongoing.
That's a bit how my thought process works. Just try to see both sides of the issue so you can understand it and think through what it means when you read X. Then research it.
BENESSE
06-17-2010, 07:39 AM
Thank you for that outline, Rick. Educational and clear about where things stand at the moment. I do hope people absorb it, think about it and keep an open mind before they start shedding tears for BP and the end of life as they only know it.
crashdive123
06-17-2010, 07:43 AM
Thank you for that outline, Rick. Educational and clear about where things stand at the moment. I do hope people absorb it, think about it and keep an open mind before they start shedding tears for BP and the end of life as they only know it.
I'm honestly not worried about BP. I do however want them to be profitable in order to pay all real claims and clean-up costs. Right now it is the shareholders that are taking the hit. Many of those shares are held in retirement accounts.
2dumb2kwit
06-17-2010, 07:49 AM
I'm honestly not worried about BP. I do however want them to be profitable in order to pay all real claims and clean-up costs. Right now it is the shareholders that are taking the hit. Many of those shares are held in retirement accounts.
Same here....I just hate seeing people ignore the gov'ts mis-handling of this disaster, and the results of their actions. They are either incompetent, or they have an agenda. If you look at who can really gain from this mess, it paints an ugly picture. (And it ain't BP.):innocent:
BENESSE
06-17-2010, 07:58 AM
Same here....I just hate seeing people ignore the gov'ts mis-handling of this disaster, and the results of their actions. They are either incompetent, or they have an agenda. If you look at who can really gain from this mess, it paints an ugly picture. (And it ain't BP.):innocent:
I know...it was all masterminded by pelicans in order to get a free bath.
BENESSE
06-17-2010, 08:03 AM
I'm honestly not worried about BP. I do however want them to be profitable in order to pay all real claims and clean-up costs. Right now it is the shareholders that are taking the hit. Many of those shares are held in retirement accounts.
Crash, check out Rick's post #271.
Doesn't sound like the retirement accts. are in any imminent danger. As for shareholders, well that's the risk you take when you invest in anything.
BENESSE
06-17-2010, 08:49 AM
Same here....I just hate seeing people ignore the gov'ts mis-handling of this disaster, and the results of their actions. They are either incompetent, or they have an agenda. If you look at who can really gain from this mess, it paints an ugly picture. (And it ain't BP.):innocent:
No doubt about it, 2D. They mishandled it in a big way and stupidly refused all help that was immediately offered. No excuses there. NONE.
Pension funds investing in BP and individuals that rely on dividend payout are taking a hit. Not doubt about it. BP reached a high of 62.58 in January and they are trading at less than $32 today and now BP is not paying a dividend. My reference was that BP would not be dipping into their pension funds to pay for the clean up. Not in the U.S. anyway. I probably should have clarified that.
Justin Case
06-17-2010, 10:56 AM
No doubt about it, 2D. They mishandled it in a big way and stupidly refused all help that was immediately offered. No excuses there. NONE.
Dutch to Provide Assistance in Clean Up of Gulf Oil Spill
Press release | 28 May 2010
At the request of U.S. authorities, the Dutch Minister of Transport, Camiel Eurlings, has offered three sets of sweeping arms (6 arms in total) and auxiliary equipment to be used to collect oil spilled from the Deepwater Horizon incident, in the Gulf of Mexico.
The U.S. and the Dutch are working closely together on water related issues. Immediately after Hurricane Katrina and Rita struck, the Netherlands provided assistance in battling flood waters in New Orleans. Senator Mary Landrieu and EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson recently visited the Netherlands to discuss these issues. The Dutch and American collaboration continues to evolve and makes the Netherlands the U.S. go-to partner for water management solutions, working together on flood protection in Louisiana and other states, mitigating the impact of rising sea levels on America’s coastlines and developing partnerships that prepare our economies for short and long-term water challenges.
Complete Press release,
http://dc.the-netherlands.org/News/Press_Releases/Dutch_to_Provide_Assistance_in_Clean_Up_of_Gulf_Oi l_Spill
2dumb2kwit
06-17-2010, 11:12 AM
Complete Press release,
http://dc.the-netherlands.org/News/Press_Releases/Dutch_to_Provide_Assistance_in_Clean_Up_of_Gulf_Oi l_Spill
Yeah, but did you miss the part about them offering ships already outfitted with those booms, (and a bunch of other help.) three days after the explosion?
Justin Case
06-17-2010, 11:22 AM
Yeah, but did you miss the part about them offering ships already outfitted with those booms, (and a bunch of other help.) three days after the explosion?
Yes, I know, I just seen this PR and thought I would share it.
2dumb2kwit
06-17-2010, 11:31 AM
Yes, I know, I just seen this PR and thought I would share it.
Oh...good.....for a minute there, I thought I might have to Gibbs smack you. LOL (You know...Gibbs.....NCIS.)LOL:innocent:
Justin Case
06-17-2010, 12:24 PM
Debunking the Fox News Obama International Aid Oil Spill Lie
http://www.politicususa.com/en/obama-international-aid
2dumb2kwit
06-17-2010, 12:37 PM
Debunking the Fox News Obama International Aid Oil Spill Lie
http://www.politicususa.com/en/obama-international-aid
So the Dutch officials lied about it, as did many other sources. And we are supposed to believe this because some guy named Jason Easley, said so......with out any supporting evidence.......while blogging on a site called
Politicususa
Real Liberal Politics
Yeah.....OK.:innocent:
Justin Case
06-17-2010, 12:49 PM
LOL,, It is what it is :innocent:
Sourdough
06-17-2010, 01:11 PM
Pension funds investing in BP and individuals that rely on dividend payout are taking a hit. Not doubt about it. BP reached a high of 62.58 in January and they are trading at less than $32 today and now BP is not paying a dividend.
I have posed the question of BP's future in Alaska on another forum that has a lot of Alaska oil patch members. If they file bankruptcy or are forced in same, or if they are so asset depleted (cash poor) after the Gulf experience, they will not be growing and expanding in Alaska.
BENESSE
06-17-2010, 01:58 PM
I have posed the question of BP's future in Alaska on another forum that has a lot of Alaska oil patch members. If they file bankruptcy or are forced in same, or if they are so asset depleted (cash poor) after the Gulf experience, they will not be growing and expanding in Alaska.
There are other companies with a much better record who'd be chomping at the bit to replace BP if need be. We won't be seeing the end of drilling in our lifetime, I'm afraid.
BENESSE
06-17-2010, 02:36 PM
Want to hear something scary? BP has been fined by OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) 760 times. By contrast, oil giant ExxonMobil has been fined only once.
As The Stock Masters say: How is BP even allowed to operate?
Let's take a look back at BP's horrid track record, courtesy of ABC News:
* Back in 2007, a BP pipeline spilled 200,000 gallons of crude into the Alaskan wilderness. They got hit with $16 million in fines.
* "The Justice Department required the company to pay approximately $353 million as part of an agreement to defer prosecution on charges that the company conspired to manipulate the propane gas market."
* In two separate disasters prior to Deepwater Horizon, 30 BP workers were killed and more than 200 have been seriously injured.
* "According to the Center for Public Integrity, in the last three years, BP refineries in Ohio and Texas have accounted for 97 percent of the "egregious, willful" violations handed out by OSHA"
* OSHA statistics show BP ran up 760 "egregious, willful" safety violations, while Sunoco and Conoco-Phillips each had eight, Citgo had two and Exxon had one comparable citation.
After examining the facts, we're inclined to agree that BP probably shouldn't be operating here in the U.S. considering its horrific safety record.
http://www.businessinsider.com/bp-has-been-fined-by-osha-760-times-has-an-awful-track-record-for-safety-2010-6
Trabitha
06-17-2010, 03:49 PM
Regardless of their record, B...the administration still gave them special exemptions.
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19027
"Last year the Obama administration granted oil giant BP a special exemption from a legal requirement that it produce a detailed environmental impact study on the possible effects of its Deepwater Horizon drilling operation in the Gulf of Mexico, an article Wednesday in the Washington Post reveals.
Federal documents show that the Department of the Interior's Minerals Management Service (MMS) gave BP a "categorical exclusion" on April 6, 2009 to commence drilling with Deepwater Horizon even though it had not produced the impact study required by a law known as the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA). The report would have included probable ecological consequences in the event of a spill.
The exemption came less than one month after BP had requested it in a March 10 "exploration plan" submitted to the MMS. The plan said that because a spill was "unlikely," no additional "mitigation measures other than those required by regulation and BP policy will be employed to avoid, diminish or eliminate potential impacts on environmental resources." BP also assured the MMS that any spill would not seriously hurt marine wildlife and that "due to the distance to shore (48 miles) and the response capabilities that would be implemented, no significant adverse impacts are expected."
I have posed the question of BP's future in Alaska on another forum that has a lot of Alaska oil patch members. If they file bankruptcy or are forced in same, or if they are so asset depleted (cash poor) after the Gulf experience, they will not be growing and expanding in Alaska.
I really doubt that is going to happen unless capping the well becomes impossible. Then they might seek a restructure of debt. But they have equity in excess of $102B with over $96B of that in reserves. They can afford a pretty substantial hit before they would even think of Chapter 13. They spent almost ten and a half billion dollars just in shareholder dividends and ended the year with $8B in cash. So I don't think they are hurting all that bad AT THE MOMENT.
On BP Safety - Hayward was supposed to be the man to clean up BP's safety record. He was brought in as the CEO immediately after all those issues but primarily after the Texas refinery explosion. But he stepped into the helm after having headed up the exploration and production side of the business where all the safety concerns happened. So I'm not all that comfortable that he walks the talk. Browne (former CEO) would have been forced to resign at the end of 2008 because of age but he was pushed aside because of the safety issues.
T - that article is a bit misleading. In fact, the MMS granted every company exclusions to drill. I've read a lot about this very issue and there are four things I think have played key roles in the exclusions. NOTE: this is just my opinion based on what I've been able to uncover.
1. The petroleum lobby had substantial input into the creation of the permitting process. As a result, the window for MMS to review the permit is extremely short, something like 90 days if I remember correctly, but no time at all to conduct enviro impact studies, safety reviews, etc.. The net affect is the MMS routinely grants exclusions for drilling because they can not meet the window time frames.
2. There seems to be a long standing culture of hand holding between the petroleum industry and MMS. That's a lousy culture for an organization that is supposed to be overseeing an industry. It was so bad that former BP executive Sylvia Baca was appointed Deputy Assistant Secretary to Land and Mineral's Management. She's since been removed but Salazar appointed a former BP exec to oversee MMS a year ago.
3. A lot of graft within MMS. You may remember that a number of folks in MMS were given gifts from the petroleum companies. Things like hunting and fishing trips, Christmas parties, tickets to sporting events. Add in drug use and misuse of federal computers (remember all that?) and it's little wonder there was little oversight.
4. Honest scientists were prevented from doing their job. No one in MMS wanted to see a report that said there would be an impact to drilling. “Under the previous administration, there was a pattern of suppressing science in decisions, and we are working very hard to change the culture and empower scientists in the Department of the Interior.” That was a quote from a spokeswoman for MMS in May of this year. The NOAA was pretty scathing in their report on MMS last year. Here is a portion of it.
"In a letter from September 2009, obtained by The New York Times, NOAA accused the minerals agency of a pattern of understating the likelihood and potential consequences of a major spill in the gulf and understating the frequency of spills that have already occurred there.
The letter accuses the agency of highlighting the safety of offshore oil drilling operations while overlooking more recent evidence to the contrary. The data used by the agency to justify its approval of drilling operations in the gulf play down the fact that spills have been increasing and understate the “risks and impacts of accidental spills,” the letter states. NOAA declined several requests for comment."
Looks like NOAA might have been right.
BENESSE
06-17-2010, 04:23 PM
Regardless of their record, B...the administration still gave them special exemptions.
This administration is certainly not without blame. (neither was the previous one for that matter)
However, let's keep a sense of proportion about it and do less of finger pointing amongst ourselves and more of where they need to point: BP.
That would be a step in the right direction, IMO.
Alaskan Survivalist
06-17-2010, 04:36 PM
I'm with Sourdough on this one although for a slightly different reason. Whenever the Democrats gain control they shut down all development in Alaska. That is why in many respects we are like a third world nation. People have to realize where all there stuff comes from and quit getting in the way of those that provide it to them. If there is a better way than do it and put oil out of business but don't expect the rest of us to pay for your disconnect from where our opulant lifestyle comes from. When oil ends so does life as you know it. Common sense would dictate it be done as responsible as possible and environmentalists contribute thier knowledge to accomplish that.
crashdive123
06-17-2010, 04:40 PM
Speaking of safety - they were scheduled to receive a big time safety award right around the time of the accident.
From Article: The Interior Department was expected to host an event today to honor BP and other companies for its safety efforts, but the agency has changed its mind. The Interior Departments Minerals Management Services was expected to host the event today and BP was up for two awards at the event. One of the awards was for outstanding safety and pollution prevention performance.
http://www.themaritimelawyer.com/bp-will-not-receive-safety-award-this-year-after-all/
Oh, man. That is too funny. Thanks, Crash, I needed that chuckle.
Sourdough
06-17-2010, 05:41 PM
I wonder if AIG is holding the counter-party on the derivatives, insuring the dividend and/or the downside on the stock price.
I just read a great article from MSNBC on the financial health of BP.
"The $20 billion fund BP has set up could be just a down payment on the cost of cleaning up the Gulf spill (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37762500/ns/business-us_business/page/2/#) and paying damage claims. But BP has plenty of cash to draw from, including an average of $20 billion in profits annually, $6 billion in cash and some some 18 billion barrels of proven oil reserves worth $1.2 trillion at current prices.Though the total cost won’t be known until the well is capped, Wall Street is already combing through the company's financial statements and working on spreadsheet scenarios. At Oppenheimer & Co, oil industry (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37762500/ns/business-us_business/page/2/#) analyst Fadel Gheit starts with a worst-case scenario of $6 billion in cleanup costs and $6 billion in damage claims every year for 10 years. That works out to $120 billion.
Even if the payout reaches that level, Gheit said, the company would generate some $14 billion a year of "free cash flow" and still have enough cash to pay shareholders half the $2.6 billion quarterly dividend BP recently suspended."
I don't care who you are those are some impressive numbers.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37762500/ns/business-us_business/page/2/
BENESSE
06-17-2010, 06:13 PM
I just read a great article from MSNBC on the financial health of BP.
I don't care who you are those are some impressive numbers.
Impressive only because of how they achieved them.
The 760 "egregious, willful" safety violations all had to do with saving money in the wrong places--gambling with people's lives and the environment.
It's impressive for any corporation to achieve that kind of financial success. I do agree with you about their moral compass, however. If they had taken a portion of the money they used to advertise how green they were and actually put a failsafe on the well then ............. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing. It even makes me looks smart....well, almost.
BENESSE
06-18-2010, 07:25 AM
The 760 safety violations through the years were not about their faulty moral compass but concrete, cutting corners type of wrong-doing. If that wasn't heads-up (rather than hindsight) about the kind of company they were I don't know what is.
We're agreeing, actually. If they didn't have a faulty moral compass they wouldn't have taken those shortcuts. A company is either ethical or it is not. There is no degree of ethical. No "sort of" ethical. Corporations can and do make a nice profit while still operating as a good corporate neighbor and citizen, within the laws, and they do so treating their employees and suppliers in a fair manner. That is or is not ingrained within the corporate culture and it permeates every corner of the company. Sadly, BP misses the mark on ethics.
Another bit of news...Moodies dropped them from Aa2 to A2. That's a pretty substantial drop... 3 notches. That moves them from high quality with very low risk to upper-medium grade with low risk. That will cost them some additional points when they need to borrow.
Tony Hayward is gone. That's my prediction. Once the well is capped and the clean up is well under way he will step aside. Keep an eye on Andy Inglis as the next CEO. He's from the same school as Mr. Hayward and one of the execs that was fast tracked along with Hayward. You heard it here first!
BENESSE
06-18-2010, 09:43 AM
Why would any govt. want to do business with BP knowing their track record? Obviously BP low-balls their costs and is most likely among the lowest bids, but is that worth such a colosal gamble?
It would be like shopping for a brain surgeon strictly based on his fees and disregarding his track record.
Our govt. bears a great deal of responsibility for the irresponsible choices it made and no amount of retrospective rationalization will change that.
Remember that MMS was part and parcel of the petroleum industry. My momma always said, stupid is as stupid does.
Justin Case
07-07-2010, 09:39 AM
I gotta say, I am a bit surprised, it seems as though the ocean is doing a pretty good job of "Washing" (for lack of a better term), The oil slick, so far, mostly "Tar Balls" have been washing up onto shore, These seem fairly easy to clean up, In fact, I was at a beach in Norther California years ago that had sign up saying that tar balls will be on the beach, these were perm type signs so this was an ongoing thing, Maybe its the calm before the storm, ? I dont know, do you think the big slick of liquid oil will reach shore ? I also have heard that older wells leak oil now and have been leaking oil for many years, I am just hoping that with a little luck, only these tar balls will hit the coast line, Looks like they could just be raked up.
I think the dispersants have broken a lot of it up with a lot of it underwater. Of course, a lot has been burned and a lot has been skimmed, too.
yellowcab
09-23-2025, 02:10 AM
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yellowcab
09-23-2025, 02:11 AM
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yellowcab
12-05-2025, 08:25 AM
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yellowcab
12-05-2025, 08:26 AM
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yellowcab
03-05-2026, 09:36 AM
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yellowcab
03-05-2026, 09:38 AM
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yellowcab
05-15-2026, 08:25 PM
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yellowcab
05-15-2026, 08:26 PM
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