buying property

[george hayduke]

Hey guys i don't really know how to word this but i will give it my best try. i've been testing my skills in the wild for awhile and feel confident now that i can handle the extremes. i want to build a log cabin in Alaska and live in it. if i don't build my own cabin i'd like to find some land with a cabin already built. i don't want to build it just anywhere in fear that ill be building it on someones land and i'll get bothered later on... so i've been looking into purchasing my own land and building a cabin. i was just wondering if any of you had any suggestion on finding property in rural areas. i need to find some cheap land but wild enough that i can forge for and hunt my own food to a degree. i also plan on harvesting some of my own food. i want my cabin to be as primitive as possible too. its not going to be some luxury suite but i will make it comfortable enough to call home.
i'm also just looking for some advice while surviving Alaska's cold winters. i've done it other times of the year, but never in the dead of winter. and if you have any other stuff to share with me please do.

[STB]

Hey
I sorry but i have no advise, but in a similar situation. Not really looking at Alaska, more northern ontario. Iv found some land 40 acres for 9000. Which does not seem to crazy and there are big plots. I was wondering what sizes some of you guys thought would be reasonable.
Thanks

[Gray Wolf]

I think there are a lot of things that you both need to think about:

If your going to keep your car or truck, then you need a road, if not you need a horse and pack mule, and know how to take care of them and their needs.

For any emergency's there will be no phone service or online service. You'll need a sat phone (regular cell won't work. Ham radio is an option) and a sat card for your puter if you want one.(for many reasons) but for all of these, how will you create electricity.

You'll need to be near a good clean constant water supply, very near.

You'll need an abundance of firewood and a place to keep it.(Preferably dry) without gas for a chainsaw, lots of chopping is needed, I do mean alot.

If your growing food, check how good the soil is, and the growing season, so you'll know how much land you need to grow your food to last through non growing periods.

What are the hunting laws, how will you keep or treat your meat for year round.

Your water supply must contain a good supply of fish. How will you keep or treat the fish for year round using. Unless your proficient at ice fishing. And what are the fishing laws.

These are just a few things, hopefully you get where I'm going at with the list you need to make, to help with your decision, even things like, soap, toilet paper, toothpaste, etc.
Most people take or overlook the simple things around their homes for granted. Go room by room and ask yourself what do I need and what can I truly live without. Are you going to make your own oils for your lighting from the fat from your kills?

You may decide that you want to live closer to a town, or neighbor, for some supplies etc.

Just think this through. JMHO But I've seen many, many people not make it after so much work and the expense of buying their wilderness dream land and home. Some even loose their lives when they didn't have to, from accidents and sickness because of the lack of communication abilities. Plan it all out on paper, every detail... Remember the average life span of people living even in the late 1800's out in the wilderness, was half of what the life span is today.

[george hayduke]

hey gray wolf thanks for the advice. i have been thinking this out for awhile. i'm very serious about it too. i've spent a lot of time thinking about this decision and i know its what i want to do. i know it wont be easy either. i've spent time alone in the woods before just never in the interior of Alaska during dead winter. i know what it takes to chop wood. growing up my great grand parents had a wood stove in their house until they died. i would have to chop wood for them. granted its not fun and its hard work... but i look at it this way, it beats the cubical 9-5 job stuck in traffic until 7:30 life.
starting out i'd like to have my cabin close to a small town in case i needed to resupply on small things. i might even keep my truck until i become comfortable without it. however, if i live say within a few miles of a small town i don't want to purchase that land. if i purchase land i want it to be further in the wilderness. i don't want to squat on someones land either. so i was thinking about looking into becoming a caretaker of someones land and cabin. does anyone even know if this possible? or does anyone tried to be a caretaker of someone else's land and they agreed you could live off it? i guess i could just by land close to a small town in alaska anyway. its not like there are very many people up there, plus i could sell it when i need too.
anyway- thanks for the advice again. i definetly want to get every detail of this right, i know i sound like im thinking out loud sometimes.

[Smok]

Gray Wolf is right about the wood supply , You should look up the PBS show about the 1860 pioneer reenactment , one thing they were judged on was if their wood supply would last the winter ...you would not believe the wood needed I cannot recall how much sorry :D could not help it :D

[Rick]

George, I would offer that you are looking at two extremes. On the one hand you don't want to be locked into a 9-5 with a long commute but the wilderness life you describe has the same sort of restrictions. You are offsetting a long commute with hours of chopping wood, etc. It that's your life style of choice then I applaud you for knowing what you want.

I just thought I would suggest a compromise. There are plenty of outdoor jobs for anyone who wants to step away from the 9-5. Wildlife services, guides, outdoor instructors, gear testers, etc. Just a thought.

If you are interested in purchasing government land then this link might help:

http://pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/fed_prog/landsale/LandForSale.html

[wareagle69]

look up www.aloneinthewilderness.com

a guy named richard preonoke moved to twin lakes alaska in 1969 and lived there for 36 yrs. he was 52 when he went in and 86 when he moved back to california. great book and video, also ask owl girl about alaska.

stb. where r u guys from? where abouts in ontario r u looking to buy.maybe i can help if i know what u r looking for.

[STB]

Hey
This is a link of one of the sites we were looking at,
http://www.recreationland.net/recreation_land_for_sale/ontario/Hunting_Land_and_Large_Acreage_For_Sale/
The good thing alot of the land is within 45km of a town. Which you could walk two a couple time a year to get what you need and in the beginning this could be very useful. Really it does not matter too much where it is, as long as the price is reasonable. At first i was thinking the bc coast, you would ahve a supply of salt, long growing season and not much snow(just a **** load of rain). But northern ontario has land so cheap its really tempting. And that guy who went into alaska to lived reminded me of a book i read called lonesome lake of this kid(19) going into a bush near Bella Colla and living there for his holy life. And how he did it.

[wareagle69]

i like northern ontario, lots of land to live off of, decent hunting and fishing and woods lots of wild edibles and towns close enough to get supplies..

[george hayduke]

waregale69- thanks for the link. i am familiar with richard preonoke already, a hero of mine with out a doubt.

anyway- i've decided that its wiser to have a town nearby, say within a couple of miles in case i need to resupply or an emergency. i'm trying to find property in the northern part of the matanuska valley in Alaska. maybe something near talkeetna, alsaka is what i'd really like. i've also been looking at the interior of Alaska south of Fairbanks as I hear you can find cheap land around there. Anyway a couple more problems I am having is I want to find land that doesn't have a yearly tax to it. This has created some problems. And now since ive decided to be close to a town, finding land that isn't near anyone can be trouble too. i want to my cabin fairly distant from anyone else. i'm going up there for the solitude not to live in a neighborhood. thankfully upon arrival in alaska ill have someone to live with initially, and once i finally get up there i assume it'll be easier to find the land i need. i'm going to flying up there in the early spring.
anyway thanks for the suggestion guys, ill keep you updated. i really like this forum. lots of good advice on it.

[george hayduke]

Hey
I sorry but i have no advise, but in a similar situation. Not really looking at Alaska, more northern ontario. Iv found some land 40 acres for 9000. Which does not seem to crazy and there are big plots. I was wondering what sizes some of you guys thought would be reasonable.
Thanks
aye- i too am wondering what would be the right amount of land to buy. keep in mind i want to use this land to fish so ill obviously need a water source just for obvious reasons. it'll need to be clean too if i'm going to drink it. hopefully in alaska this wont be a problem. i also need enough land to hunt game and harvest as much food as i can during the summer.
im going to keep my truck at first so i can resupply but eventually i may have food brought into me a couple times a year and i can ration it. i'm pretty confident ill be able to pull this off. its not like im trying to go up there with just an ax and knife. as i slowly rewild myself ill slowly shred the modern conveniences i once needed. i see this as a long term thing. not anything thats going to happen over night even though i have experience surviving in the wild... i've never tried something for this long term.

[Canadian-guerilla]

Hey
I sorry but i have no advise, but in a similar situation. Not really looking at Alaska, more northern ontario. Iv found some land 40 acres for 9000. Which does not seem to crazy and there are big plots. I was wondering what sizes some of you guys thought would be reasonable.
Thanks

just a quick caveat on buying this land
1 find out if you will retain underground mineral rights to this land
2 find out if there are any mining companies/activity withing a 100 mile radius

i'm just mentioning this because,
i believe there is some gov't law
that states a mining company can explore
for minerals without the landowners permission
and this company can " explore " any way they deem fit
with no reimbursment to the landowner
i've been following the troubles at Sharbot Lake between the native
Algonquins and some money-hungry uranium mining company

other than that
40 acres for $9000, sounds pretty good

[STB]

Thats a very good point i did not even think about. Ya so far this is one of the betetr areas for price. BC way too much money, but best growing season, ontario good prices alright growing season, lots of animals up there:). And too me alaska out of question(being Canadian) and the yukon would be cheap and such, but very short growing season. So now i just need to keep my eye open for something decent. Alot of the land up northern ontario has streams and such flowing though it, dont know how clean they would be could get it tested, but worst comes to worst i boil my water. And ill see about that mining stuff, because iv seen some horrible things about mines and how dirty, and the by products to them, not the best you for, or anything in that environment.
And 40 acres seems pretty big, thats about 12km by 12 km, which is a lot of land i think. Not to sure tho what it would take.
thanks again

[nell67]

[quote=Canadian-guerilla;14558]just a quick caveat on buying this land
1 find out if you will retain underground mineral rights to this land
2 find out if there are any mining companies/activity withing a 100 mile radius

i'm just mentioning this because,
i believe there is some gov't law
that states a mining company can explore
for minerals without the landowners permission
and this company can " explore " any way they deem fit
with no reimbursment to the landowner
i've been following the troubles at Sharbot Lake between the native
Algonquins and some money-hungry uranium mining company

other than that
40 acres for $9000, sounds pretty good.

Yea I'd say thats a good price for 40 acres,I just gave $24,000 for 3 acres last winter:eek:

[woodwose]

Hey guys i don't really know how to word this but i will give it my best try. i've been testing my skills in the wild for awhile and feel confident now that i can handle the extremes. i want to build a log cabin in Alaska and live in it. if i don't build my own cabin i'd like to find some land with a cabin already built. i don't want to build it just anywhere in fear that ill be building it on someones land and i'll get bothered later on... so i've been looking into purchasing my own land and building a cabin. i was just wondering if any of you had any suggestion on finding property in rural areas. i need to find some cheap land but wild enough that i can forge for and hunt my own food to a degree. i also plan on harvesting some of my own food. i want my cabin to be as primitive as possible too. its not going to be some luxury suite but i will make it comfortable enough to call home.
i'm also just looking for some advice while surviving Alaska's cold winters. i've done it other times of the year, but never in the dead of winter. and if you have any other stuff to share with me please do.

Hey George, let me turn you on to another survival site that may be able to help you... http://www.survivalblog.com/ When you get there, look in the upper right corner at the end of all the word links in the banner. Click on SurvivalRealty.com . JWR, the owner of this website continually monitors and looks for survival real estate and can probably steer you in the right direction. He also has some good advice. Good luck. :D

[woodwose]

STB, I really got a good chuckle out of your avatar... :D

[Rick]

Nell is sure correct on the mineral rights. At least in the U.S. My brother was in the oil business for several years and the surface owner has little say when it comes to accessing what's underneath.

[george hayduke]

Nell is sure correct on the mineral rights. At least in the U.S. My brother was in the oil business for several years and the surface owner has little say when it comes to accessing what's underneath.
thanks guys i am all too aware of this being from Appalachia thanks to strip mining companies that come through here and flatten entire mountains looking for coal. they've kicked 1,000's of families out of their home.

[Rick]

A different question but ties into this thread. For those of you that homestead, do you have an earth bermed or underground home?

For those of you considering homesteading, what kind of dwelling do you have in mind?

[nell67]

Nell is sure correct on the mineral rights. At least in the U.S. My brother was in the oil business for several years and the surface owner has little say when it comes to accessing what's underneath.
the credit on that one is for canadian guerilla,I was just quoting him, Rick:D For some odd reason,it didnt completely show up as a quote?

[wareagle69]

maybe a miss print but 40 acres is not 12km by 12km
an acre is about 209 x 209 ftsq

[Rick]

It's actually a selion of land one furlong long and one chain wide.:D

[STB]

Hey
well i feel like a complete idiot. Ok i was wrong 40 acres is only 400m by 400m. That seems alot smaller, and i would need alot more then 40 acres to live off of. And for the house, probably a cabin, or wigwam. But now im on the hunt for more land.
sorry about that math error.
I could be wrong here as well:P

[wareagle69]

ya if you want to get confusing i can print the whole speil too, but i'm keeping it simple (kiss) for some ppl

[wareagle69]

why more than forty acres? granted i bought 77 but still i have lakes close by to fish on, i can hunt and cultivate my own property, if you r looking to grow food five acres would be more than enough unless it is a cash crop, also learn more about wild edibles, they will be in my summer videos

[STB]

Well thats good to hear. So 5 acres used for food, and ya everything else id leave wild and just eat the wild eating plants. But would 40 acres realyl be enough for wild animals and such? I guess up there youd pretty much be surrounded by pretty much nothing but more bush. But what if i had to leave my land to hunt, but then again iv never done this before and by the sounds of it you have experience. So thats good to hear, i wont need to throw down too much cash.
Thanks.

[wareagle69]

what will you do for a living? or r u financially independent , i live about an hour to an hour and a half from town all depending on the weather, but there is lots of crown land to hunt and fish on and to collect wild edibles, you could also keep your own stock such as cows pigs chickens and laying hens the just take to the mennonites to butcher..

[george hayduke]

And for the house, probably a cabin, or wigwam. But now im on the hunt for more land. Have you thought about building a yurt? i plan on living in one while i build my cabin. look them up you can build one for almost nothing and it will with stand the weather.
if you want to build a cabin and don't know how to you can find plans and diy kits online. i thought about doing this but since i'm going to live in a yurt i'm building my cabin from scratch.

[george hayduke]

STB - check out this site if you want to find some land. http://www.countryplans.com/smf/index.php

scroll down the bottom and look for the section Land: Buy, Sell, Find and you can put an AD up there, as well as look for properties. lots of like minded people there too interested in homesteading. many of these people have built their own cabins.

[trax]

RE: mineral rights, yep same here in Canada, but if the land you're looking at doesn't have a claim staked on it, you can do it yourself, register your claim and as long as you do some work on it ....just re-register it every year. Of course if you're in an area with near zero possibility of having a "find" the mineral companies won't be interested. They know what they're doing pretty much.

George...I see Doc contacted you, have you seen Seldom Seen lately?

[STB]

O wow that fourm has tons of stuff! Some of the cabins they have shown are more then i plan to build but some great ideas! thanks very much for that site.

[george hayduke]

O wow that fourm has tons of stuff! Some of the cabins they have shown are more then i plan to build but some great ideas! thanks very much for that site.aye- granted some of the "small cabins" those people build are more like mini-mansions I have found lots of great small cabin ideas on there that would cost almost nothing to build and would be highly efficient.

[trax]

aye- granted some of the "small cabins" those people build are more like mini-mansions .

Man I hear that. I've been researching a lot of different plans etcetera and some of the stuff I see I think Holy crap, who's going to heat that thing?

[wareagle69]

what do you know about ol ed abbey? most canucks have never heard or read his prose

[STB]

Hey
Was wondering if anyone knew any good websites that had land in northern BC for sale. I search in google, and i get places north of Vancouver but not much, nothing with big plots like 40 acres or anything like that. Who owns all that land? The government and natives?

[george hayduke]

what do you know about ol ed abbey? most canucks have never heard or read his proseed abbey is a god around my house.

Man I hear that. I've been researching a lot of different plans etcetera and some of the stuff I see I think Holy crap, who's going to heat that thing?yeah well living off the grid to some of these people is a weekend out of the office in their cabins. i want nothing bigger than 350 sq ft. some of these people have cabins with 2 stories! and some of the people there have no idea what i'm trying to talk about. real, authentic off the grid living is just something people did in the 1700's to them.

[george hayduke]

stb probably the government owns most of that land. the best thing to do i'm finding out is just going up there and looking for the land yourself. i haven't been able to find much on the internet myself. i'm buying a ticket in the spring and buying what i want. atleast i have friends in AK i can stay with while im up there. one of them is even going to help me build my cabin he told me.

[Nativedude]

I think there are a lot of things that you both need to think about:

If your going to keep your car or truck, then you need a road, if not you need a horse and pack mule, and know how to take care of them and their needs. . . .For any emergency's there will be no phone service or online service. You'll need a sat phone (regular cell won't work. Ham radio is an option) and a sat card for your puter if you want one.(for many reasons) but for all of these, how will you create electricity. . . .You'll need to be near a good clean constant water supply, very near. . . .You'll need an abundance of firewood and a place to keep it.(Preferably dry) without gas for a chainsaw, lots of chopping is needed, I do mean a lot. . . .If your growing food, check how good the soil is, and the growing season, so you'll know how much land you need to grow your food to last through non growing periods. . . .What are the hunting laws, how will you keep or treat your meat for year round. . . .Your water supply must contain a good supply of fish. How will you keep or treat the fish for year round using. Unless your proficient at ice fishing. And what are the fishing laws. . . .These are just a few things, hopefully you get where I'm going at with the list you need to make, to help with your decision, even things like, soap, toilet paper, toothpaste, etc.
Most people take or overlook the simple things around their homes for granted. Go room by room and ask yourself what do I need and what can I truly live without. Are you going to make your own oils for your lighting from the fat from your kills? . . .You may decide that you want to live closer to a town, or neighbor, for some supplies etc. . . .Just think this through. JMHO But I've seen many, many people not make it after so much work and the expense of buying their wilderness dream land and home. Some even loose their lives when they didn't have to, from accidents and sickness because of the lack of communication abilities. Plan it all out on paper, every detail... Remember the average life span of people living even in the late 1800's out in the wilderness, was half of what the life span is today.

You are right on the mark Gray Wolf!! ;)

It takes a lot of thought and preparation to live full time in the back country of Alaska. I had been traveling all around AK for ten years before I decided to move there. Then it took 6 years of planning and preparing before I actually did it. You can read about it at the link below:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1066

For firewood, I cut/chop and haul approx. 30 trees (40'-50'x8-10"dia.) every spring for the following winter. In the summer I go through approx. 7 cords of wood. I chop and/or cut all my wood with my double bit forest ax or my 4' Swedish timber saw, and I split all of it with my double bit ax. . .NO GAS. . .NO POWER TOOLS OF ANY KIND! ALL BY HAND! :eek:

Power tools are not allowed in the area where I live and there is no way to get gas anyway! :)

[Rick]

Geese, Native Dude. That's really a pretty good description to put that lifestyle into perspective. It wouldn't take a whole lot to unbalance that life style. A guy pulls a back muscle or sprains an ankle and he could go mighty hungry or cold if his stores weren't already put up.

[trax]

what do you know about ol ed abbey? most canucks have never heard or read his prose

I've read four or five of his books, maybe six. The quote on my tag line is his. He's one of my all time favorite authors, just loved the guy's attitude. Monkey wrench gang forever, bro!

[wareagle69]

living in az i tuned into him quick, i lived in flaggstaff and got a good laugh when he talks about taking the cop car i lived right on that corner, to read him now makes me homesick..

[trax]

some of Abbey's books turned to be downright prophetic huh? wrote about people refusing to report for conscription back in the '50's. How much of that was going on back then?

Stuff he wrote about industrial damage to the environment he wrote in the '70's and look at our world today...:mad:

[Gray Wolf]

George, I was just wondering about your plans. You have figured out your budget that you seem comfortable with. What are your plans for your water system? If your going to have a well dug, you need to talk to the local well diggers to see how far down they'll need to dig 300', 600'? Most well diggers I've met throughout the Northeast and Midwest charge about $10 - $12 a foot plus all the fees, another $500 - $600. A water/pumping system will run about $3k, Talking to them about different areas your interested in, might save you a few thousand dollars to have the well dug and a water system put in. Remember we all keep getting older, and the farming, wood cutting, animal care, and the repairs that always come along, how will you deal with your water needs as time goes on? If your not doing a well, a good idea would be, being downhill from a fast running mountain stream, making use of gravity even for irrigating your crops.

[wareagle69]

i think i know where gw line of thinking lies he and i share the same hero in a man called richard proeneke www.aloneinthewilderness.com the man was 52 when he went to the bush and came out 30 some yrs later at the age of 86 cuz the winters was just to cold a man among boys he was..

[chiggersngrits]

A good site for rural and wilderness properties is, Landandfarm.com. They have land for sale from all over the world. Brazil looks interesting at $20. an acre. Always wondered what legalities and rights one would have owing property in a country they are not a citizen of.

[Nativedude]

Geese, Native Dude. That's really a pretty good description to put that lifestyle into perspective. It wouldn't take a whole lot to unbalance that life style. A guy pulls a back muscle or sprains an ankle and he could go mighty hungry or cold if his stores weren't already put up.

No Rick it wouldn't. When you live alone, alone to the point where you don't see other humans for months on end, you have to take more precautions and be diligent about being careful when using an ax, or saw, or hammer, or any other tool. When I was building my cabin, I had to be careful not to pull a muscle, or over exert myself in the process. Once you get accustomed to being ever diligent and careful, it become an everyday part of life. You can never take anything for granted. If you do, you most certainly will die out there! :eek:


i think i know where gw line of thinking lies he and i share the same hero in a man called richard proeneke www.aloneinthewilderness.com the man was 52 when he went to the bush and came out 30 some yrs later at the age of 86 cuz the winters was just to cold a man among boys he was..

Dick Proenneke too, took many years prior to his final decision to live out there (in Alaska) scouting around the area to find the right spot to live. He had been going there on leisure trips since the forties. He finally decided to build his cabin in in the spring of '67. He cut the timber in the summer of '67 and returned to build his cabin and live there full time in '68 (51 years old), and continued to live there until the late summer of '98. During his thirty years at Twin Lakes he did travel down to the lower 48 from time-to-time to visit family and help his ailing dad in Iowa.

When I met him in '94 he stated that he was contemplating moving down with his brother in CA because the winters were getting tough then. He was 76 at that time. But he stuck it out until he was 81. He was a tough old bird, and didn't pull any punches! He said that he admired my tenacity and vigor of wanting to live even further back in the remoteness than he did. He told me that "you probably won't ever see anyboy traveling that far off the path?!" He would see people in the summer traveling down the river in front of his cabin and hunters would pass by his cabin on caribou and bear hunts, and he even had people like John Denver fly in to talk to him, on occasion, just to find out what it was like to live in such a remote area and to live such a remote lifestyle. ;)

[Beo]

Watch the series on Richard Proenneke called "Alone in the Wilderness" it describes the perfect way to do live off the grid.

Go to this link: http://www.dickproenneke.com/

[Rick]

No, no, no, no, no. You guys live way too far off the grid for me. Unless, of course, there's a Starbucks, Home Depot, Sears, Cabella's, Big Truck Stuff, ER with a frequent visitor's plan, Cable TV, Throw it in the microwave, cabin nearby.....with Jacuzzi and an oversize Lazy Boy, of course.

[Gray Wolf]

No, no, no, no, no. You guys live way too far off the grid for me. Unless, of course, there's a Starbucks, Home Depot, Sears, Cabella's, Big Truck Stuff, ER with a frequent visitor's plan, Cable TV, Throw it in the microwave, cabin nearby.....with Jacuzzi and an oversize Lazy Boy, of course.

What no stereo, surround sound, wine cellar ????

[Rick]

Can't hear sh*t. Did way too much of that in the '60s. What? You heard me. So no need for that. Don't drink wine, nitrates give me a headache. Wa, wa, wa, I know. Cryin' a river.

[nell67]

Can't hear sh*t. Did way too much of that in the '60s. What? You heard me. So no need for that. Don't drink wine, nitrates give me a headache. Wa, wa, wa, I know. Cryin' a river.

Calling 9-waaa-waaa again for Rick!:rolleyes:

[wareagle69]

yo native dude
how come dick walked hunched over?

[Beo]

I did a thread on Richard Proenneke, he was truely amazing. Left the site link there too. He came down in 1999 at the age of 82, and your saying you were one of the handful of people he actually talked too. That is pretty impressive.

[Rifleman]

I live on 40acres and to me it is the bare minimum of land to live on, and I'm not even trying to live off the land. I hope to own a square mile someday.

40acres is about 1/4mile x 1/4mile

[george hayduke]

hey thanks for the advice guys. sorry i haven't been able to respond to your questions i've been real busy lately.

graywolf- the thought of digging a well hadn't really crossed my mind but i wish i would of thought about this earlier. how does a well in Alaska work wouldn't it just freeze up? i dunno' what i can do about this since digging a well is going to be pricey it sounds like. are there any reliable ways to catch water?

[george hayduke]

When you live alone, alone to the point where you don't see other humans for months on end, you have to take more precautions and be diligent about being careful when using an ax, or saw, or hammer, or any other tool. When I was building my cabin, I had to be careful not to pull a muscle, or over exert myself in the process. Once you get accustomed to being ever diligent and careful, it become an everyday part of life. You can never take anything for granted. If you do, you most certainly will die out there!i know what you mean about being diligent about being careful with tools or anything else you do. i used to work a bunch of ****ty construction jobs without any insurance and i learned how to work as safely and diligently as possible. if i ever got hurt or injured i would have been in a heap of trouble. tons of medical bills on top of being out of work is a horrible combination and i've seen it happen to a lot of guys in the business.

you've got to be patient and aware of what you're doing at all times while making sure no freak accidents happen.

[Nativedude]

I did a thread on Richard Proenneke, he was truly amazing. Left the site link there too. He came down in 1999 at the age of 82, and your saying you were one of the handful of people he actually talked too. That is pretty impressive.

Yes Beo, I did meet and talk with Dick Proenneke.

There are a lot of items posted that claim that Dick lived in AK for "over 30 years". He, in fact, lived in his cabin from 1968 until 1998. That equals 30 years. He was 51 years old the spring he went back to AK, built his cabin and lived in it full time, and he was 81 when he left there (end of summer '98), contrary to what is posted on Wikipedia. That posting is wrong! And Dick's leaving is recorded by the National Park Service at Twin Lakes, when Dick officially turned over the care of his homestead to the park service.

Dick did fly back to twin lakes in the summer of '99 to attend a ceremony that honored him for his care and commitment to the land and wildlife at Twin Lakes. He was presented with a "life time achievement" award by the Governor of AK and National Park Service, but Dick did not live there that summer, he flew out the same day.

I have seen many writings that depict different dates that he moved back to the lower 48, but Glen Alsworth, Babe Alsworth's grandson, (Babe piloted for Dick), was there when Dick flew all of the belongings he was taking with him out of twin lakes. It happened in early Sept. of 1998.

[Rick]

I ran across this site with several books on wilderness log cabins. Thought it might of interest to some of you:

http://www.wildernessdrum.com/html/shelter_books.html

[wildWoman]

hey there George, we moved out into the bush 3 years ago. I just posted a message about ways of getting land under "Hi from the North" in Introductions. We're in Canada, so I don't know about the rules in Alaska. In Canada, they throw wilderness areas at mining, oil and gas companies to destroy, but don't sell land to "normal" people for just living there. I'd suggest to you to find out under what circumstances they do sell land in Alaska. You may be more successful finding something that way - getting a trapline, staking a mining claim, staking land for a business venture...just make yourself fit to the rules and away you go. With the metal prices boom right now, you may end up with mineral exploration in your backyard. They're drilling 4km south of our place. Not much safety from industry anywhere these days...but what goes boom inevitably goes bust again and a lot of the mineral exploration is just a show for making money, actual mines happen a lot less often and then you can always fight it.
The other thing is, when you're looking for land, figure in the transportation costs of getting supplies in. It's hard to make money in the bush, you'll still need $3000 or more/year, and transportation by plane can eat up your budget really fast.
Good luck and I'd be really interested in hearing how things are going. If there's any questions I can answer, I'd be happy to!

[canid]

my biggest advice is to research as manystyles of cabin building as you can in advance if you are going to do the building, or at least the design and planning yourself, as the property you find and the situation will dictate how you can build and what resources are at hand, transportation, etc. do you realy want to have to learn to do it the only way available and at the last min?

will you be doing all the work yourself?

when i lived in ak we had a rainwater cistern. this lasted untill one of the locals contaminated it with turtle wax, whereafter we where thankful for the road access and the 500gal tank we had. we would otherwise have been in a bad situation.

wells are more reliable but as entioned before are expensive and must be properly surveyed for and positioned. the best location [or any suitable one for that matter] will need to be found before you purchase and a testing of the ground water is advisable if there is any industry in the area. this includes mining, particularly older mines, as they can contaminate groudwater with heavy metals for years. is there a resivoir up watershed, breeding cholera or giardia right uphill from you? in most remote areas the latter is not usualy a probleml, but you might want to have the water tested anyway, and in many places is required by law.

if you 'step out' to a lifestyle like this, i wish you all the luck and happiness it can bring to those with true grit and such a desire, i can't even talk my lady into moving back to juneau with me because it snows and there isn't a stable enough job base :(

just take the advice in this thread about learning what to expect and being ready. i've read it quoted that 90% [ or some similar] of people who move to the state of alaska don't stay a year and 98% don't stay two. that includes those who move to settled areas with roads and jobs. i suspect most of this is probably poor preperation, in one way or another.

[wareagle69]

good advice wildwoman and canid

i agree with what you said about ppl leaving alaska i think they get in over their heads and it is not the romantic notion that the had planned it turns out to be work. i don't know how many woman i dated that wanted the bush, log cabin lifestyle but i could tell by their actions that they would not be happy, until i met mrs wareagle, she lives more hardcore than i do..

[Nativedude]

"good advice wildwoman and canid. . . . i agree with what you said about ppl leaving alaska i think they get in over their heads and it is not the romantic notion that the had planned it turns out to be work. i don't know how many woman i dated that wanted the bush, log cabin lifestyle but i could tell by their actions that they would not be happy, until i met mrs wareagle, she lives more hardcore than i do. . . ."

You are right on the money WE!!

There are a lot of areas with "abandoned" cabins (homesteads) in AK. Abandoned mostly by people of the 60's and 70's whom wanted to "commune" with Mother Nature (so they thought), but found that Mother Nature is an unforgiving task master and living the "natural" lifestyle was harder than they thought.

It does take work to live an OTG/bush lifestyle, but IMHO, it is easier to live the "bush" lifestyle than the "city" lifestyle. In the cities/suburbs there are too many rules about what you can and can't do with, in and around your own house. IT IS YOUR HOUSE, yet you can only do what the city, county, or state tells you you can do with YOUR HOUSE!

In a lot of cities you can't dig a well for water, ON YOUR PROPERTY, if you want -- you must use the city supplied water (UGH!), nor can you let your grass grow as tall a you want! If you try to, the city will come and cut it and bill you for it! YOU must maintain the cities sidewalks that are adjacent to YOUR property. And you can't build or put up anything on your property without a permission and a permit. . .again, from the city! . . .These are just a few examples of the constraints of urban/suburban dwellers.

Where I live, I built my cabin & food cache how I wanted, the size I wanted, facing the way I wanted. I have a garden and plant it as big or small, as I want. I can do anything I want to my cabin, inside and out, and I have no nosy neighbors poking there snooty, snooping noses into my business.

Also, I don't have any crime in my neighborhood! :D

So, which lifestyle is harder? For the lazy person, the city is easier. For the person that doesn't mind putting in a little "elbow grease" to live the way "they choose" free from all the constraints of others, an OTG/bush lifestyle is the preferred choice!

[wildWoman]

Yeah, I agree with you guys, WE and ND...I think one big mistake people sometimes do is moving from a "normal" city lifestyle (muli room house, power, telephone, running water, fire and ambulance service etc etc) to something as extreme as wintering in a teepee in the far North, or moving to a fly-in location and then having to adjust not only to living without "civilized" services but also to a lifestyle that involves incredibly more physical work, prudence and loneliness. Maybe that's why so many peole in the 60s and 70s didn't last...
I think a good way of easing into it and, especially, learning lots of the skills is moving first to the outskirts of a village in the general area where one would eventually like to have a remote home. Often there are simple cabins without power, phone and water for rent, so that's a good way of finding out what it's like in the winter, living like that. Bit easier to rectify mistakes when you can drive into town for help.

[Sourdough]

i think i know where gw line of thinking lies he and i share the same hero in a man called richard proeneke www.aloneinthewilderness.com the man was 52 when he went to the bush and came out 30 some yrs later at the age of 86 cuz the winters was just to cold a man among boys he was..

I knew Dick when I homesteaded over on Lake Clark, What a wonderful human. Jay Hammond, the Governor ("Bushrat") was a fair piece down the lake. Good time, good place, good people.

[Sourdough]

Hey guys i don't really know how to word this but i will give it my best try. i've been testing my skills in the wild for awhile and feel confident now that i can handle the extremes. i want to build a log cabin in Alaska and live in it. if i don't build my own cabin i'd like to find some land with a cabin already built. i don't want to build it just anywhere in fear that ill be building it on someones land and i'll get bothered later on... so i've been looking into purchasing my own land and building a cabin. i was just wondering if any of you had any suggestion on finding property in rural areas. i need to find some cheap land but wild enough that i can forge for and hunt my own food to a degree. i also plan on harvesting some of my own food. i want my cabin to be as primitive as possible too. its not going to be some luxury suite but i will make it comfortable enough to call home.
i'm also just looking for some advice while surviving Alaska's cold winters. i've done it other times of the year, but never in the dead of winter. and if you have any other stuff to share with me please do.

George, I hope I don't end up regretting I did this, but contact: hopeak.com and ask about Safari Lake.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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Окт� (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/194987)Жимб (http://gascautery.ru/t/667667)Hein (http://gashbucket.ru/t/292862)Груш (http://gasreturn.ru/t/786934)Auro (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/558943)фото (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/678388)�тра (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/674844)Бобр (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/669284)Поль (http://geartreating.ru/t/572281)Tesc (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/357798)Etiq (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/558578)Oper (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/559230)Creo (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/139254)Free (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/139359)Ahav (http://getthebounce.ru/t/138092)
etsl (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/631798)Publ (http://habituate.ru/t/653630)Erba (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/347712)Aunt (http://hackworker.ru/t/626537)Real (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/624556)Suit (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/624361)Caud (http://hailsquall.ru/t/139720)женщ (http://hairysphere.ru/t/449481)Lotu (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/561120)Kera (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/561872)Skin (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/562156)Pure (http://haltstate.ru/t/449498)Nive (http://handcoding.ru/t/565402)Aubr (http://handportedhead.ru/t/681725)Scha (http://handradar.ru/t/561486)
Wins (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/137896)Harr (http://hangonpart.ru/t/240545)авто (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/448768)Грин (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/321038)Chua (http://hardasiron.ru/t/332076)Funk (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/566333)Берк (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/303564)deat (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/140810)Neps (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/291274)Шала (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/313199)Caro (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/156517)Harr (http://headregulator.ru/t/240072)Грин (http://heartofgold.ru/t/321049)дете (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/296547)Mort (http://heatinggas.ru/t/621135)
Соде (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/322618)Сидо (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/310929)�льк (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/305607)Mari (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/602100)Plan (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/602834)Fall (http://jobstress.ru/t/602818)Adio (http://jogformation.ru/t/607277)Gran (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/550607)Dean (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/663711)Muni (http://journallubricator.ru/t/142280)Jazz (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/526752)Jose (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/326260)Dolb (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/335469)Пине (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/322596)Вало (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/329123)
Mike (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/635978)(МИФ (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/480029)Shor (http://kentishglory.ru/t/636236)Меже (http://kerbweight.ru/t/294757)19вл (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/347982)Ð�нто (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/303129)Данн (http://keyserum.ru/t/371303)Exce (http://kickplate.ru/t/157579)Rusi (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/604514)Zone (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/605375)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/608643)дево (http://kinozones.ru/film/1894)Miyo (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/610604)Zone (http://kneejoint.ru/t/604646)КÐ*Л- (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/611258)
Adam (http://knockonatom.ru/t/514085)зака (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/604358)Jame (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/362056)Arti (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/811695)LAPI (http://laborracket.ru/t/157672)Arth (http://labourearnings.ru/t/279037)Финк (http://labourleasing.ru/t/403123)Чирк (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/677084)Haji (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/618298)Live (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/542821)Flow (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/535094)Tayl (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/344887)Толу (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/242160)Pelh (http://laggingload.ru/t/293115)Мона (http://laissezaller.ru/t/441764)
XVII (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/252809)Dieg (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/335792)Ð*азм (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/302768)ocno (http://lamphouse.ru/t/508079)унив (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/439043)Ð*азм (http://lancingdie.ru/t/172096)Соло (http://landingdoor.ru/t/294268)Ветр (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/665202)Only (http://landreform.ru/t/469301)Mart (http://landuseratio.ru/t/319188)Блау (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/669083)краÑ� (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1827069)фарф (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1782609)кома (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1903)Teve (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/1030600)

[yellowcab]

Tree (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1546584)Mabe (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/451904)�ини (http://layabout.ru/shop/601416)Book (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1418591)Кова (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/465216)Book (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/794774)Зари (http://leaveword.ru/shop/1151897)8968 (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/447146)4300 (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/862158)9933 (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/861974)Adri (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/576098)�лож (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/789020)Chis (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/1151820)PROT (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/614039)заво (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175905)
хоро (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1545176)буду (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1894)Oper (http://mp3lists.ru/item/1894)защи (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1532959)кра� (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/1034007)траф (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/463036)Trac (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1206892)комп (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/1031370)Кита (http://navelseed.ru/shop/454499)Baku (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/642845)Kind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/220517)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/652656)Wind (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/865809)Angi (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/472035)Phil (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/97096)
ткан (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/1032718)Nina (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/110360)Simb (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571565)ЛитÐ* (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/1153352)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/1254724)Konr (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/288362)Acti (http://onesticket.ru/shop/584290)Держ (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/585481)WINT (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/689730)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/690620)Ð�ком (http://palmberry.ru/shop/956437)ЛитÐ* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/682940)курÑ� (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/1066850)здра (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1708920)поÑ�л (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1177160)
пе�н (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1419931)Frit (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1534582)Мачю (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1545495)Донб (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1696149)пере (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/696067)учил (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/929691)БВЩу (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1211386)Jeff (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1434164)Вахт (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/1501484)Цент (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/517929)Бекж (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/884925)TOTA (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/973562)мгно (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1078957)Гуме (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1401615)Иван (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1558840)
ДуÑ�л (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/620472)Wolf (http://rearchain.ru/shop/880007)МоиÑ� (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/928142)supe (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1654942)ноже (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1662304)Смол (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1668347)Napo (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1689890)Белы (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1715934)Влад (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1773765)Форм (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1784987)Суха (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1822904)Ð*Ñ�за (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1839241)Laur (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1856243)51-6 (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1884307)Plus (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1918713)
изме (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1931637)веще (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1950376)прод (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1964015)Куба (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1973566)Прот (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1463241)авто (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1498349)Мака (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1586716)изда (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/1654955)Саве (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1680323)�кза (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1707942)кома (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1903)кома (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1903)кома (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1903)Valo (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/488105)упак (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/1764766)
като (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1773526)�зык (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1776651)Film (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/494334)Соко (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/506020)RFID (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1855921)Мады (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901889)Digi (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1968918)Stev (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/890267)Happ (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/930018)Roub (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/986346)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)авто (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/988789)wwwb (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/488511)

[yellowcab]

инфо (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)инфо (http://cottagenet.ru)инфо (http://eyesvision.ru)инфо (http://eyesvisions.com)инфо (http://factoringfee.ru)инфо (http://filmzones.ru)инфо (http://gadwall.ru)инфо (http://gaffertape.ru)инфо (http://gageboard.ru)инфо (http://gagrule.ru)инфо (http://gallduct.ru)инфо (http://galvanometric.ru)инфо (http://gangforeman.ru)инфо (http://gangwayplatform.ru)инфо (http://garbagechute.ru)
инфо (http://gardeningleave.ru)инфо (http://gascautery.ru)инфо (http://gashbucket.ru)инфо (http://gasreturn.ru)инфо (http://gatedsweep.ru)инфо (http://gaugemodel.ru)инфо (http://gaussianfilter.ru)инфо (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)инфо (http://geartreating.ru)инфо (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)инфо (http://generalprovisions.ru)инфо (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)инфо (http://geriatricnurse.ru)инфо (http://getintoaflap.ru)инфо (http://getthebounce.ru)
инфо (http://habeascorpus.ru)инфо (http://habituate.ru)инфо (http://hackedbolt.ru)инфо (http://hackworker.ru)инфо (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)инфо (http://haemagglutinin.ru)инфо (http://hailsquall.ru)инфо (http://hairysphere.ru)инфо (http://halforderfringe.ru)инфо (http://halfsiblings.ru)инфо (http://hallofresidence.ru)инфо (http://haltstate.ru)инфо (http://handcoding.ru)инфо (http://handportedhead.ru)инфо (http://handradar.ru)
инфо (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)инфо (http://hangonpart.ru)инфо (http://haphazardwinding.ru)инфо (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)инфо (http://hardasiron.ru)инфо (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)инфо (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)инфо (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)инфо (http://hatchholddown.ru)инфо (http://haveafinetime.ru)инфо (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)инфо (http://headregulator.ru)инфо (http://heartofgold.ru)инфо (http://heatageingresistance.ru)инфо (http://heatinggas.ru)
инфо (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)инфо (http://jacketedwall.ru)инфо (http://japanesecedar.ru)инфо (http://jibtypecrane.ru)инфо (http://jobabandonment.ru)инфо (http://jobstress.ru)инфо (http://jogformation.ru)инфо (http://jointcapsule.ru)инфо (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)инфо (http://journallubricator.ru)инфо (http://juicecatcher.ru)инфо (http://junctionofchannels.ru)инфо (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)инфо (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)инфо (http://kaposidisease.ru)
инфо (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)инфо (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)инфо (http://kentishglory.ru)инфо (http://kerbweight.ru)инфо (http://kerrrotation.ru)инфо (http://keymanassurance.ru)инфо (http://keyserum.ru)инфо (http://kickplate.ru)инфо (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)инфо (http://kilowattsecond.ru)инфо (http://kingweakfish.ru)инйо (http://kinozones.ru)инфо (http://kleinbottle.ru)инфо (http://kneejoint.ru)инфо (http://knifesethouse.ru)
инфо (http://knockonatom.ru)инфо (http://knowledgestate.ru)инфо (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)инфо (http://labeledgraph.ru)инфо (http://laborracket.ru)инфо (http://labourearnings.ru)инфо (http://labourleasing.ru)инфо (http://laburnumtree.ru)инфо (http://lacingcourse.ru)инфо (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)инфо (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)инфо (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)инфо (http://ladletreatediron.ru)инфо (http://laggingload.ru)инфо (http://laissezaller.ru)
инфо (http://lambdatransition.ru)инфо (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)инфо (http://lammasshoot.ru)инфо (http://lamphouse.ru)инфо (http://lancecorporal.ru)инфо (http://lancingdie.ru)инфо (http://landingdoor.ru)инфо (http://landmarksensor.ru)инфо (http://landreform.ru)инфо (http://landuseratio.ru)инфо (http://languagelaboratory.ru)инфо (http://largeheart.ru)инфо (http://lasercalibration.ru)инфо (http://laserlens.ru)инфо (http://laserpulse.ru)