WAREAGLE is Right.......WE the MEMBERS are KILLING OUR Forum..It has become a JOKE !!

[Sourdough]

Look you people are my friends and I love you, but this forum has evolved into a joke. Don't take that personal. Yes, legal ownership of the forum belongs to Chris.

But we are the Steward's of the forum. It is OUR Choice whether we want this forum to be about shallow mindless dribble, or are we willing to slowly steer this forum back to 90% of the content about "SURVIVAL", not only wilderness survival, but Survival.

We each know at our core'being that the financial and social foundations of America, and the entire inter-woven world of man-kind is dancing on the the edge of some horrible lurking event.

We have many, many core members who visit, but no longer post.

PLEASE join me in an effort to set the trim'tabs of this once glorious forum to 90% useful content and 10% jokes and mindless drivel.

Thank you
Your friend,

Sourdough

[RangerXanatos]

Very true. I came to this forum looking for information and I've gotten it. But it has now turned to more entertainment than anything else for me and I now visit another forum for information. I wonder how many others have turned away because of the lack of info being posted and the growth of "drivel."

[Justin Case]

I come here for both,, Information when I need it , and a few laughs when I need that,, If either one goes away I probably will too,, Actually, Thats what makes this a great forum IMO,, If I do not want to laugh I stay away from the funny stuff,, its really that simple ,, There is plenty Of Good Survival Info here every Day,, I guess what I am trying to say is that Laughter and comradery is very much a part of my survival in this stressful and uncertain world,, JMHO :)

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Very true. I came to this forum looking for information and I've gotten it. But it has now turned to more entertainment than anything else for me and I now visit another forum for information. I wonder how many others have turned away because of the lack of info being posted and the growth of "drivel."

Same here. That and the Problem I've been having with the Forum refreshing as soon as I log in and losing all of "today's posts". To be honest, I'm even "Lurking" less here. Even when I do come here now with the intent of logging in, I accept that I will Lose 3/4 of the unread posts At minimum. It has become much easier to just read at another Forum......

As far as "Drivel" there has been a lot more such stuff like that posted here. Some of it is "Newsworthy", some is just drivel,stuff I could find by doing a search on Google or Bing,or whatever.(Hey, that's how I found this Forum!)

Plus people getting upset because they keep seeing the same subjects brought up for the umpteenth time. I just accept it, it's gonna' happen. Nothing any of us say or do is gonna' keep someone from posting "Hey, What's the BEST SURVIVAL KNIFE?". It does seem to be the most basic piece of equipment, and makers, both custom and mass producers, are gonna' come out with a new one next week, and the week after, and the week after that, and so on. As long as new knife models are made,people are gonna' ask!

Also the political and Religious discussions that occur occasionally, I go to another Forum to discuss those entirely.

Mainly I keep returning here for one thing only.... Friends. People I have come to know, like, and trust. Some of whom I have had the great fortune to meet in person. Great people every one of them. Yet it seems that some are coming here less themselves....... Some are stalwart and stick it out though. I applaud them.

Lately though, I have noticed that some of these same friends are also on other Forums. Whether this is a sign of the Forums deterioration or not I don't know. I just know that I'm finding more people that I originally met here, in other places.

The main reason I don't visit here as much as I used to, is problems with the Forum itself, not it's topics, or people. But my visits have recently become fewer, and further apart. I may "look in" twice a day now, when I used to spend HOURS at a time here. Mostly due to the problem with the Forum itself not the people or topics. It's not just me it is happening to either, as several spoke up about this some time back happening to them also. I notice that those same people seldom come and log in anymore either......

I told Chris about this, he said it was a "Quirk". As long as this "Quirk" keeps affecting people, you'll probably see those people start to disappear as well. At least that is my reason.


Just my 2¢ worth, that probably isn't worth that.

EDIT: When I logged in there were 3 pages of "Todays posts" now this thread is the only one that shows as unread. I didn't read any of the others, didn't even have a chance to. So I apologize to all those that had something worthwhile to say or share. It is "lost" now..........

[Camp10]

I understand your point Sourdough and I respect it. I am here much more to learn than share because there are so many people who are far better at getting their point across. I have no problems with the goofing off in the general chat area, but I dont really like to see all the threads hijacked either.

I think there is still plenty of useful info here and more coming all the time. As long as there are guys like you, Canid, YCC, Rebel, Alaska Survivalist, Klkak,Sarge, etc,etc,etc...I know I'm leaving out some great guys...there will still be plenty of relevant and useful info.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

I expect that this forum will have ups and downs. So won't complain about "drivel". I will help by trying to contribute on topic posts. We should all do the same IMO. Maybe we should ask ourselves how much are we contributing to the forum in regards to "Wilderness Survival" rather than pointing out flaws in posts. Just my two pennies.

[rebel]

Good idea. Lets turn this forum into a 90% bone dry info only place.
Then watch everyone leave.
No thanks.

[Pal334]

I think there is a balance, where it is, I don't know. I have no other experience in or with other forums. I have and do take alot of good stuff from here. So, I will go with the flow

[Rick]

We've probably seen MORE posts on guns and knives than ever before and certainly more posts on things like wild edibles, soap making and tanning (thank you YCC and Canid and WE and some others) now that the weather is breaking. There will always be an ebb and flow to any forum. Read the posts you want to, ignore the ones you want to and it will work out regardless of who you are and what you are looking for.

[red lake]

You can scan through the newest posts and most of them are of no interest to me. Some catch my attention. Ones that don't interest me, I don't follow, one that do, I follow. No big deal.

The part I personally don't like is when there is a topic opened and 3 on topic posts then 5 pages of back and forth off topic crap of inside jokes and chit chat.

I have seen this happen to a forum before and it has caused a departure of some "active" posters. But it did make way for many who were too afraid to post or couldn't be bothered being getting bullied and brow beaten. Made the forum much more informational and yes it was drier for a time, but did pick up again.

[FVR]

I don't post much anymore because I'm just to darn busy.

Bows are on the bench, rocks are in the bags and buckets, woods trips are down to zero, hunting is all but forgotten.

Just got a new bag but have yet to set it up.

Smart arse comments, I do have but it gets old.

[cowgirlup]

It seems to be the nature of any type of survival forum to attract people who want to discuss those topics. I think overall everyone's done a great job keeping it to a minimum. Don't read or reply to the types of threads you don't want here and a lot of people will take the hint.

[rebel]

Don't read or reply to the types of threads you don't want here and a lot of people will take the hint.

Hints? I say make your point plain and clear. If anyone has a finger to point then, make it clear. If you have a specific gripe and it involves a person or persons then say what it is and who it is. What's wrong with that?

[welderguy]

I have to ask , out of the people posted in this thread , Me included when was the last time WE started a serious survival related topic, Looking back on my recent posts as well as some of the others that were posting in this thread and I'm not seeing much useful survival related posts from us or me.

I was always told if you see something wrong try to fix it if that don't work well then you make your choice of what you need to do.
So my suggestion is Post some genuine survival related topics, and see what happens.

[huntermj]

I Reid (spelling, past tense read) LOL. This thread and then hit new post to see what topics came up.
try it.
There are a lot of good topics here and a lot of good information, A lot of knowalge from folks like you Sourdough.
I will agree the threads get hijacked by a couple of people here. Yes i'am talking about Ken and 2D2K, abit too often. I think of them as doctor Howard and doctor fine. its good entertainment. i dont have television so its a good substitute. But i have learned a lot from the people here. And will continue to do so. I don't even mind the hijinks here ,its all good fun between friends and family. If we were siting around the campfire would it be much different? I hope not.
Add to say, doctor fine and doctor howard may not always add to our wilderness skills but both help to add to our life skills. since few of us live in the wilderness, life skills come in handy. And both have aided members here.

[trax]

Well the threads gone 15 posts without getting hijacked by a smartarse, what to do, what to do?

Hey, I've b*tched about some of the threads (and content) here in the past, sometimes it helped sometimes not, and I'm as guilty of hijacking threads as anyone. Will I change my ways? Probably not.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Just an observation....Sourdough's post sure made a difference in this forum tonight....

[trax]

Just an observation....Sourdough's post sure made a difference in this forum tonight....

Hey did I mention that WarEagle's a crybaby and Sourdough's his Dad? Not trying to hijack the thread or anything, just thought it might be relevant to the conversation:sneaky2:

[Ted]

Hey did I mention that WarEagle's a crybaby and Sourdough's his Dad? Not trying to hijack the thread or anything, just thought it might be relevant to the conversation:sneaky2:

ROFLMAO!!!! Hey hijacker, missed ya bro! Good to see ya!

[LowKey]

When the forum refreshes, just go to Quick Links and click Today's Posts. I've noticed this place does that. But on another forum I hang out on, over there, the log-in times-out and after you've typed 10 minutes worth of stuff only to have the forum dump it and ask you to log in is far more maddening.

I'm a newb here with not much to post but the place has just the right combination of friendly, though sometimes irascible, helpfulness for someone getting back into it after far too long out of it.

Are we headed for a meltdown? Unless someone can answer where this money is coming from.......

[Sarge47]

I've been takng this thread all in and have only one thing too say: Rasberries! This has become a "forum family" for many. We like to kid each other & make jokes, you bet. We joke about Sourdough's doorless outhouse & his being single, Rick & his thong & love for Twinkees, Ken's being a lawyer,(& that opens a door, I mean to tell ya.) And the list goes on & on! When the occaisonal Numpty or Troll shows up we have a feast! Think about it people; if we lived together in a community do you think we'd just talk "shop?" Or would we kid around, getting to know one another better? When I 1st came here this forum had just started up a short while back, & there was a lot of talk about Survival & hardly any kidding around...because we didn't know each other well enough to do that! Today we have so much Survival info that we have to create "stickies" just too manage them! We have had several more forums added to this site to handle all of the new stuff, & let's not forget about the blogs either. But there's one other important factor that needs to be taken into consideration, & that is all of the "like-minded" people we've come to know from all over the world! That to me is a very needed "survival item!" So there you have my "duos centavos." :cool2:

[pocomoonskyeyes]

I'll agree with all that has been said so far. My only problem Is that for me, the forum is like a broken down car. No mechanic wants to fix it so it seems the only option seems to be, to get another one.

Probably my last 20 posts have been about 2 things... Knives and the Forum not working like it is supposed to. It doesn't matter how I try to use it, All threads either disappear, or are marked read. Today's posts doesn't work for me either. I tell people and all that, but it is still the same.... Don't work!! I have to lurk, and then jump on post what I have to say, and go straight back to lurking........ That is a LOT of hassle. I mean it is just easier to go to one that works...... which is what I have been doing. So if you don't see me logged on..... you know why. I'm lurking, or somewhere else. I even tried offering solutions to the problem, that a Mod on another Forum found for me and provided the right combination of "Key words" to use in a search. Which is a problem with one small thing in the V-Bulletin. To quote the first thing that is found on that search....


Please note that this it NOT a vBulletin vulnerability. It is a vulnerability in one of ... Forum Actions. Mark Forums Read. Quick Links

It is something that is known and repairable, but I can't do it. I don't have the access, nor do I want the access. I just want to spend time on my favorite Forum!! But failing that, I have to go somewhere else. Maybe someone who knows about this problem AND has access can fix it.
More can be found here.
http://www.google.com/search?q=mark+forums+read+vulnerability+vbulletin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I'll probably get banned for this.............

[huntermj]

Well, must say sorry, I have read the 2d2k vs ken thread, in full. And yes it takes away credibility from this site. around the campfire, sure, great. But as what people may see us as at first glance. No. i think that thread should be discontinued. just my opinion. i like the post in general but they may not be conducive to attracting new members. Is that the goal here? if not then all is fine. dont change a thing.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

It would be good if there was a way to make temporary posts that disappeared the next day. If not technically possible maybe each of us could remove our own less survival related posts after the joke was made.

[2dumb2kwit]

Well, must say sorry, I have read the 2d2k vs ken thread, in full. And yes it takes away credibility from this site. around the campfire, sure, great. But as what people may see us as at first glance. No. i think that thread should be discontinued. just my opinion. i like the post in general but they may not be conducive to attracting new members. Is that the goal here? if not then all is fine. dont change a thing.

huntermj,
Thank you for your honesty.....I respect that.

To the rest of the members,
If you think my post bring this forum down, then grow a pair and say so.
I promise you, I don't want to be anywhere that I'm not welcome.

[Ken]

huntermj,
Thank you for your honesty.....I respect that.

To the rest of the members,
If you think my post bring this forum down, then grow a pair and say so.
I promise you, I don't want to be anywhere that I'm not welcome.

2dumb, I've been trying to get you banned since the day you joined. :innocent: But don't leave on your own - things would get way too quiet and boring here.

BTW - check my recent threads. I've started as many relevant threads as anyone here lately. Then take a look at which ones get the most responses.

Sometimes being here is like going to a party. Somebody has to get a conversation going. :)

[Justin Case]

I agree,, The "Family" here at WSF is what sets this forum apart from the others, Without the personalities here, This place is just another Survival forum,,, A dime a dozen ,,, Its about the People if you ask me,,

[Rick]

I don't know about a meltdown. I'm still looking up the word irascible.

[2dumb2kwit]

Well, if we are family, and we are going to complain about what we don't like, let's just get it all out in the open.

This may take a few post, because I type slow, and there is that time thingy.

First- No, wareagle is not right......and he has a high and mighty attitude, that I'm sure runs more people off, than it attracts.

I came to this forum to learn about wild eatables. I have not gone very far learning about them, because people like WE give the vibe that if you are not going to live on a mountain, and devote your life to the study of wild plants, then you are not worthy of their time or knowledge. Screw that....I'll buy a book.

[2dumb2kwit]

Second- Sourdough, or Hope, or whatever you want to be called, this week.
You need to make up your mind. One minute you're cuttin' up, and the next minute you're fussin' because someone else is. You try to make everyone think they are less of a man than you, because you sleep in a frozen shack, and haul your water. If that is how you want to live, than good for you....but don't *****, because people post links to videos, and you can't watch them. You chose to be where you are. It's not our fault.

After you tell us how tuff you are, you go right into begging for positive rep, so you can get another green thingy. You talk about us being your family, and you love us, but wasn't it you, just a while back, trying to figure out how to erase all your post, because you wanted to leave, and punish everyone???

[2dumb2kwit]

Third-poco.

You talk about how great this forum is, and how you like everyone so much, but you just keep complaining about how the forum works. You said that you used to spend hours here, but now you only spend a few minutes here. Well, with all that spare time, here's an idea.....if you are interested in a thread, spend the extra two seconds and click on it, to see if there are any post that you have not read!


I think I'm through venting now.:sneaky2:

Anybody else want to talk???

[your_comforting_company]

Frankly, I'm not going anywhere. I participate very seldom on other forums and 95% of everything I post on the internet is on this forum. There are so many things discussed here that I can apply to my daily life that it just isn't funny.
I don't like when good, serious threads get hijacked, but when the funny ones surface you guys never fail to make me crack a smile.
If I see something I'm not interested in, I don't read it. That being said, if you have a post you want people to read, give it a meaningful name, be serious and clear in your post, and I find that topics get lost far less often. I look back at threads I've started and I don't see them getting hijacked with drivel, and actually not many of the other really good ones do either, but there is an aweful lot of "comic relief" in the others. Seems a good balance at times, but sometimes it's just annoying.
I see both sides of the coin, and either way, this is home for me and you guys is family. You guys were doing your thing long before I came here and I wouldn't really expect any different now.
Do I want the forum to be all cut-and-dry info only? Heck no! If it were, I might never smile again!

[huntermj]

I feel both of you start many relevant threads. and it would be very boring witout you. But i do feel it goes a bit far sometimes and kills some good threads, Ill share a campfire with anyone here any day.and would feel privileged to do so. I like the joking around and the serious post.
I like that members here sent prayers to to someone that was injured. It's who we are. Our differences make us interesting

[BENESSE]

I stumbled into this forum less than a year ago seeking specific info. Members were very generous with their responses and I learned a lot. While taking advantage of a lot of search options about topics I didn't want to duplicate, I did encounter some off topic detours that weren't particularly meaningful or entertaining at the time. But there was enough substance to keep me coming back. I got to know people (at least I think I did), got to understand and really enjoy the dynamics and the shorthand, whether I choose to participate, or not.
I am not a member of, nor do I lurk around any other forums although I do read the survival blog every day. I get "the facts only" there and I also get bummed out a bit.
WSF has more of a range that suits me. It is a family of sorts that I've grown to know and care about deeply. And as with any family, (maybe your own? like mine) you are going to get a short fuse about something someone said...or didn't say...or misunderstood what you meant, or dissed you, etc, etc.
I get that.
I can ignore it if I'm not in the mood, it or engage just to sharpen my fangs.
There's always that option.
Bottom line...I'm cool with the way things are.
Don't go changin', just to try to please me.:)

[Winnie]

I feel very much the same as YCC. I don't go to other forums mainly because I've found this site to be the friendliest and most informative.
You all know my situation in this country, and often I'm amazed at the resposes of support I get from folk on here. I rarely get involved in the wilderness threads because I know little about the subject. Also there are other areas I don't get involved in, because #1 laws and regulations differ so much between our two countries, although I do try to ask questions to try and follow threads. #2 Some things(such as wild edibles) are also very different. What grows here doesn't always grow in th U.S and vice versa.
As for the gruesome twosome(2D and Ken) life would be dry and boring indeed without the two of them going at it.
I like to think I've made some good friends here and that, that friendship is reciprocated.
Basically, I read 99% of new threads, then drop any that don't interest me, follow others and post in some.
It's all down to what you want from a forum I guess, and personally, I think this one and the people on it are one of the best.

[Pal334]

I agree Winnie: "Basically, I read 99% of new threads, then drop any that don't interest me, follow others and post in some.
It's all down to what you want from a forum I guess, and personally, I think this one and the people on it are one of the best."
Just look at my "track record" with Glock cop, there is no way either of us will ever change our minds. We have sometimes heated exchanges, then we agree to disagree and move along. Are these exchanges useful? Maybe not to those who have alot of experience, but maybe so to those who do not. Neither Glock or I are the Final Expert", but we provide our views based upon our varied experiences and that should provide "food for thought" for those that are still in the decision phase of hand gun selection.

And we have a whole slew of other similar discussions here, the witty banter often contains nuggets of information for our members of every level of experience.

[randyt]

as a newbie to the forum i don't really see a problem. i visit a couple other forums and lurk on a couple more. every forum has it's own personality. everyone is a little different. i don't mind the high jacks or tangents, sometimes it takes us to someplace interesting. usually a thread will get back on track eventually. i come to forums to relax and pick up new information. i don't come to prove somebody wrong or argue over something. i couldn't give two hoots if a 22 mag is better than a 17 mag or vice versa, .308 vrs 30 ought six or what ever, i am interested in others thoughts and opinions though. spelling, punctuation and grammar is something else that doesn't concern me, i can figure out what the poster is saying.

well there's a few thoughts from a newbie. i probably have more but i'm not to good at making long posts. i tip my hat at you guys that can write a essay, it escapes me.

[Sarge47]

1st, Winnie & Benesse, thanks to both of you for your support, your checks are in the mail. :sneaky2: :clap: :clap:

Next, and this is very important, there is a certain type of survival that is not mentioned much on here, but the joking & screwing around helps with that. It's called "psychological survival." I get really depressed over our political situation, but the joking around lifts my spirits so I can "survive" the current administration. You guys are the best! (except Ken cuz' he's a lawyer.:sneaky2:) This is what makes WSF what it is! (cue in music: "Battle Hymn of the Republic." starting low & slowly building) Our open & familiar way of "talking" to each other; understanding what we've gone through, like the members on here who suddenly found themselves unexpectedly separated from their spouses & facing divorce! Winnie, all alone except for a kitty cat in merry old England & the political situation that she has to deal with! Yes, it may be important to some to know how to start a fire in impossible conditions and no gear; & we've covered that 8 ways to Sunday! Somebody might want to know how to make a bladed implement out of a piece of rock or what type of vegetation is safe to eat, & we have a whole forum set aside just for that! Occasionally we get people who come on here & want specific answers & you folks always step up to the plate! So let's take a look around & thank you know who for what we've got: A talented, experienced TEAM of people who are willing to share their knowledge in a friendly affable manner. :clap: :clap: :clap:

All that being said, I think we should have the "Department of Caring" (remember that one?) look into buying Sourdough a door for his outhouse! :sneaky2: :innocent: :cool2:

[Winnie]

That's just brilliant Sarge! (cheque not needed, but hey I'm not about to refuse:innocent:)

[BENESSE]

All that being said, I think we should have the "Department of Caring" (remember that one?) look into buying Sourdough a door for his outhouse! :sneaky2: :innocent: :cool2:

Sarge, I think Sourdough might appreciate a lady friend more than a door. Now how can we pull that off?
(maybe the two go hand in hand though--get the door first, the women will follow)

[Sourdough]

Sarge, I think Sourdough might appreciate a lady friend more than a door. Now how can we pull that off?
(maybe the two go hand in hand though--get the door first, the women will follow)


Thank you, but this should be the last year for the outhouse. With luck the outhouse will moved to a new location & become the new generator shed. What is crystal clear from the owner of this house I have wintered in, is that it is to be sold ASAP. So I had better get my arse in gear this summer, however I still have 39" of snow on the ground, and the property is only accessible by snow machine till mid-May.

[Justin Case]

Sarge, I think Sourdough might appreciate a lady friend more than a door. Now how can we pull that off?
(maybe the two go hand in hand though--get the door first, the women will follow)

Maybe even a survival Inflatable would be nice :innocent:

(sorry, Couldn't help it) :blushing:

[2dumb2kwit]

Maybe even a survival Inflatable would be nice :innocent:

(sorry, Couldn't help it) :blushing:


Aaaahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
That's the funniest post, in months!:clap:

(And yes...I would chip in, to get him one! He may be a curmudgeon, but he's still one of us.) :tongue_smilie:

[gryffynklm]

Everyone has a valid point. It sounds like a cheep way of avoiding the original start of this thread. Maybe it is. The off track direction some posts take is annoying at times and yes makes me chuckle. This is part of the comfort we have with each other we call "family", I value that stress relief.

The off topic joke stuff seems to be a barometer indicating a need for distraction from, as sourdough said;"the financial and social foundations of America, and the entire inter-woven world of man-kind is dancing on the the edge of some horrible lurking event."

Lets face it economically who owns US.

I see off topic diversions in conversations at church, pipe band practice at the store. A lot of joking around serious discussions. Its part of hanging out. Maybe its because I'm new to WV and still making friends but I seem to want to just hang out with those who I consider "birds of a feather". I'm stressed money is getting tight prep is slowed way down. Joking and hanging out helps.

As much as I enjoy the jokes I don't know how this effects the forum, this was the original purpose of this thread. Is hanging out effecting the forum negatively? I value the opinion of what has been called the core members of this forum. Some think so.

I'm done blathering. The only suggestion I have is redirecting the thread back to its original subject after the joke has been made out of courtesy to the poster.

just my 1¢ worth. (on a budget)

[Ole WV Coot]

If you don't want anything but dry information, look it up. I know my part of the country pretty well by now but I still can learn and I don't bother with any other forums, waay too busy. I don't read everything, don't know everything either. Ain't got any complaints and if it's going down the crapper I stumbled on it, liked the straight up agreements & disagrements and get a laugh. If you don't like it, move on. If you don't like what I might type ban me. Nough said.

[finallyME]

Before coming to this forum, I was a member of 4 other forums. I also lurked on a few others. I just added this to the list. Three of the other forums relate slightly to this one, but mostly not. They are all about backpacking and hammocks. But despite the difference in topics, there seems to be a common factor, people like to mess around. Anyways, I lost my train of thought. Keep it the way it is.

[pgvoutdoors]

This forum has provided many people with valuable information. Yes, it seems these days that you have to sift through a lot of worthless sand to get to the gold, but the information is there.

Maybe 90% useful content is a bit much to expect from a public forum, but think about this:

Do you go to a football game and sit there and talk about basketball all afternoon?

Do you have over a 1000 posts in less than six months, 90% of those have nothing to do with survival?

Have you read a thread started on a topic you were interested in only to find that it has gone off topic before the end of the first page?


Remember, the commercial value of a forum is based on the number of it's members and the volume of the hits it receives. You can talk about most anything as long as you keep coming back.

The quality of the forum is in the hands of it's members.

[oldsoldier]

IMHO I respectfully disagree true their is some information that some may look at as useless or drivel. To me some of it is just that, however some is social interaction from friends who can't get together snywhere else. I know I myself have posted "non-survival" information. But as red lake said. Posts that don't relate or don't interest me I skip over. IMO if we go to the "training manual" postings and dry statistics them one of the reasons I come here, friends and the comraderie will be gone. Then how mwny members will do likewise? Like Poco that's just my two cents worth.

[pgvoutdoors]

I understand Oldsoldier and your right about the majority of the members. I do believe the forum has evolved into a social club, and that's what the majority wants.

I wondering if eHarmony though is talking survival now?

Still Friends buddy, hope to see you soon.

[DOGMAN]

Today is my two year Anniversary of joining this motley collective of curmedgeons, cutthroats, dirt bags and dim wits. I came here for wilderness survival discussions, but I stay here for the community. Some of you aren't nearly as funny or witty as you might think. BUT, since I have few friends... I keep coming back and reading your pathetic and boring attempts at humor, and sometimes get a laugh, and heck sometimes even gain a nugget of wisdom on something relevant to my life

I belive there is only one way to learn wilderness survival skills...that's boots in the field experiece. Other than that, its all just talk and theory, and I find plenty of both of those here. Personally, I don't mind a little bad humor with my "talk and theory" learning on-line. If I want to read dry discussion of survival techniques I'll read Tom Brown, or Thomas Elpel...but if i want a sense of community, a sense of humor, then I'll read some here- then go outside and try to apply the reading to my life.

[roar-k]

Take this anyway you like, but the wrong way.

I lurked on this site for a very long time before joining almost 9 months ago. The reason I joined and decided to participate was due to the fact that everyone seemed friendly and didn't mind helping the "newbies" like myself. Sure, occasionally I have seen a few veterans be a little snippy when it comes to questions that have been asked a few dozen times, but they did point out that the question has been answered before. I am one of the few that does not mind seeing the same questions raised. Why? Because maybe someone has learned something new regarding that issue and will be able to share their experience.

During the 9 months I have been here I have only asked a few questions regarding items I wanted to purchase. The answers I received contained information I found to be very helpful, and thus I printed off said information and saved for later use.

I have also started threads that have been derailed. It's usually due to inside jokes like those you would hear at a family reunion. I just take it in stride and try to get the thread back on topic. Sometimes it fails, other times it does not.

I will admit that I am one of those not fond of the Ken vs. 2dumb thread and to be honest it almost put me off from joining this forum, mostly because I didn't fully understand why it was being done. But I decided to observe for a time and in the end decided to join. Like a few others I only participate in threads that I am interested in and avoid those I am not interested in.

In the end a forum is a meeting place of like minded individuals in which they can share their experiences. So please share away.

[DOGMAN]

Personally, I have never read any of the "Ken vs 2 dumb" thread...the post title seems to even be OT and all an inside joke. I figure it has nothing to do with Wilderness survival- or me. So, I've never read it.

maybe we should have an Off Topic section that is just shenanigans...not even general chat...just sillyiness. Then anytime someone makes an OT post to a regular thread, the poster or a mod can transer it over to the OT section, and those of us just looking for shiits and giggles can hang out in that section and the real on-topic threads can stay clean

[roar-k]

Personally, I have never read any of the "Ken vs 2 dumb" thread...the post title seems to even be OT and all an inside joke. I figure it has nothing to do with Wilderness survival- or me. So, I've never read it.

maybe we should have an Off Topic section that is just shenanigans...not even general chat...just sillyiness. Then anytime someone makes an OT post to a regular thread, the poster or a mod can transer it over to the OT section, and those of us just looking for shiits and giggles can hang out in that section and the real on-topic threads can stay clean

We could call it "The Wastelands" or "The Badlands" and that's where the mods can put all of our OT threads and the like.

[Boker]

I was a member of another board unrelated to the subject matter of survival. The conversation lounge/general chat receive more post then any other area. I made friends I still talk to now because of that place.

Anyways, a movement was started to close the general conversation lounge and concentrate more on the subject. The board is all but dead. Oddly enough, it was the owners who enforced the moment more then the members.

Some threads do drift pretty far off topic, but given the information received, its a minor detour. I like it here, and am not looking forward to any changes.


Boker

[Alaskan Survivalist]

I'll read some here- then go outside and try to apply the reading to my life.

I avoid some topics completely because they are just too arguementive and even quit posting on a topic I may have started. Rather than explain what they don't know to them at aggrivation to myself I am content to chuckle to myself and let them go into the wilderness with a fully stocked Altoid tin and a wire saw. I like comparing different experiences and even intellegent questions from less experienced but I only share what I choose with those I choose. The rest can learn the hard way. This is like wathing TV for me and if I will just change the channel to see what else is on if I loose interest. I do wish some of the jokes were as funny as the posts are informative.

PS-please don't post anymore pictures of fat guys in thongs!

[Sarge47]

Today is my two year Anniversary of joining this motley collective of curmedgeons, cutthroats, dirt bags and dim wits.
who you callin a cursmuge...uh curonion...anywho, I resemble that remark. :innocent:

Anyway, who you gonna listen too? Guys you like? Or guys you don't?

Here's some other "Non-Wilderness-Survival" stuff that goes on here:

The Dept. of Caring.

Knife give-aways.

support for injured members; remember when Beo got cut up by "Johnny Butter-butt," & shot while over-seas? What about Kilkak's Mrs. & Gray Wolf?

Think about it people; this IS survival! :cool2:

[Justin Case]

I agree Sarge,, Living through all the "Bad" jokes (Ken) , Is a form of survival :)

[finallyME]

Personally, I have never read any of the "Ken vs 2 dumb" thread...the post title seems to even be OT and all an inside joke. I figure it has nothing to do with Wilderness survival- or me. So, I've never read it.

maybe we should have an Off Topic section that is just shenanigans...not even general chat...just sillyiness. Then anytime someone makes an OT post to a regular thread, the poster or a mod can transer it over to the OT section, and those of us just looking for shiits and giggles can hang out in that section and the real on-topic threads can stay clean

I have never read the Ken vs 2D thread either.

Anyways, I thought the general chat area was an OT section.

[oldsoldier]

who you callin a cursmuge...uh curonion...anywho, I resemble that remark. :innocent:

Anyway, who you gonna listen too? Guys you like? Or guys you don't?

Here's some other "Non-Wilderness-Survival" stuff that goes on here:

The Dept. of Caring.

Knife give-aways.

support for injured members; remember when Beo got cut up by "Johnny Butter-butt," & shot while over-seas? What about Kilkak's Mrs. & Gray Wolf?

Think about it people; this IS survival! :cool2:

Thanks sarge i couldn't agree more

[pocomoonskyeyes]

huntermj,
Thank you for your honesty.....I respect that.

To the rest of the members,
If you think my post bring this forum down, then grow a pair and say so.
I promise you, I don't want to be anywhere that I'm not welcome.
No, in a way it "livens it up" with "Comic relief. Sometimes I read your and Ken's thread, sometimes I don't. It all depends on the mood I'm in.

Third-poco.

You talk about how great this forum is, and how you like everyone so much, but you just keep complaining about how the forum works. You said that you used to spend hours here, but now you only spend a few minutes here. Well, with all that spare time, here's an idea.....if you are interested in a thread, spend the extra two seconds and click on it, to see if there are any post that you have not read!


I think I'm through venting now.:sneaky2:

Anybody else want to talk???

I do use the "Todays Posts", but that doesn't always work right either. This isn't a problem that Just I am having either. Batch, Dogman, RWC1969 also have/had the same problem. When there is a problem I report it. If it gets fixed I shut up, if it doesn't I keep reporting it. Just think of me as the squeal button on the brake pads!! Or the Knocking sound a motor makes just before it throws a rod!!

[huntermj]

I wouldn't want to see anyone leave this forum.
I like it the way it is, and i like the people here.
I would like to see WE post more, He has said he has a very knowledgeable mentor for wild edibles and medicals. And i would love to learn more about that field. as well as his what his mentor Bow is teaching him. i think we could all learn from this. I know he has talked a bit about this in the past but i am curious to hear more.

[rwc1969]

It's hard to know what the forum inventor or it's mods intentions were or are. It's not my forum, so I could care less. It's none of my business! If the intent was to create a forum where a select few are in on the joke then so be it. If the intent was to scare off newbs who may not ask the best questions, then so be it. If the intent was to have a few folks who can get together, become friends and shoot the bull, then so be that too. That in itself is great, and it happens on all the other forums I visit as well, whether or not they are stale or lively. But, if the intent was to have a forum where folks of all walks could come and learn about wilderness living and survival or what have you I think the forum is falling short, at least in the short time I've been here.


I personally could do without the one trick pony "headline" threads to links to bs stuff posted daily, and it would be nice if the forum refresh/ new posts/ today's post problem was fixed. As far as the other BS stuff, I don't mind. It does make it difficult finding new "wilderness survival" related topics though when the forum refresh doesn't work properly and all "good" posts are buried in headline links and bs.

I feel for ya Sourdough, poco, WE, and whomever else. I can't say I've made many friends here, wasn't my intent. It wasn't my intent to come here and win knives and such either. Although, I do appreciate the knife and think it's great what you guys are doing with the DOC. My intent was to talk with people about wilderness living and survival related topics. If some joking goes on in between that's cool by me as long as it doesn't bury the relevant stuff, which it usually does. If the new posts and forum refresh thang worked properly that wouldn't be an issue. We could just glance over the BS and get to the goodies.

I'll say this. I found myself getting caught up in all the "old timer's" BS threads and getting into arguments, etc..... To correct that, I went back and deleted all my BS, political, what is survival?, and what have you BS posts all the way back to the start of the year. Now, I just ignore the ignorant stuff. I made my points and everyone should know where I stand on all this.

I'm starting this year off right. NO BS from me from here on out. A lame joke or two maybe, but that's it. this is the main forum I post on and I like the joking around and such, but I think it's went too far. It's becoming too hard to tell if someone's fooling around or not and too hard finding on topic stuff.

i gotta be honest, if the forum refresh probelm isn't fixed I'll probably be spending more time at bushcraftusa, as there is much less conflict, less BS threads there and the forum has folks who really know their ****. Not a bunch of armchair wilderness folks there. Not that that's what we have here. :) We only have a couple here.

Peace!

[Alaskan Survivalist]

I get past the refresh thing by going to quick links and then todays posts.

[Sarge47]

I guess I missed the real point of this thread. I've been watching & reading all of the threads, except for the Ken vs. 2d2k thread, lately; and all of them seem to be on track. Even the "Numpty" one about the"Survival knife." Yes I get tired of reading the same old stuff over & over again. That's why we made it a "Sticky," so the questioneers could simply go there & read all of the answers that get repeated over & over again. As a matter of fact, that's where these threads need to be moved to, so let it be done! :cool2:

[Justin Case]

as for the repeated questions, I think people like to ask questions and interact with other people, not just read others answers asked by other people,, This is a discussion forum, Not the library,, JMHO :)

[Sarge47]

as for the repeated questions, I think people like to ask questions and interact with other people, not just read others answers asked by other people,, This is a discussion forum, Not the library,, JMHO :)Actually, it's both! However, the Knife "sticky" is a good place to interact if someone feels that they must. Then, however, I can't take their question serious if they were just trying to make conversation now, can I? :sneaky2:

[Justin Case]

Yes, you are right,, It is Both :)

[Icemancometh]

The part I personally don't like is when there is a topic opened and 3 on topic posts then 5 pages of back and forth off topic crap of inside jokes and chit chat.

I wholeheartedly agree with Red lake on this one. Too many posts are turned into jokes back and forth. My visits are far less frequent for this reason.

[doug1980]

Heck I belong to almost 15 different forums. Anything form offroading to landscaping and they all have the same issues. In order to find truly useful information you have to use the search function. If you ask a question that is where the people who know the answer tell you to go because they have answered that exact question hundreds of times. The people who have been members for a long time don't really want to answer the same questions over and over again, so in time they have nothing to offer because they refuse to. So then what do you have... you have all the new people asking questions and getting smart arse comments by the only people who could answer them. Then the "old timers" of the site are now bored so they post random crap that is meaningless and off topic. Honestly I feel that if all you really want from a forum is information than lurking is the way to go. If you want a sense of community and brotherhood, I guess you could say, then join in and enjoy. I get upset and annoyed by some on here but isn't that the way life is. I don't hold a grudge for it and I never think any less of them afterwards. All I can suggest is skip all the crap that doesn't apply to, no one forces you to read anything in here.

However, I do feel that keeping the jokes/dribble confined to the general chat section would solve a lot of the issues. As well as not posting a response to a specific question unless you can add useful information to it. That would make it easier to utilize the search function. I don't know about you all but I don't have hours and hours to try and find an answer to my questions. But either way I just go with the flow no sense getting all worked up over something that is trivial.

[Justin Case]

I wholeheartedly agree with Red lake on this one. Too many posts are turned into jokes back and forth. My visits are far less frequent for this reason.

Obviously are upset because you have no sense of humor and the jokes are going over your head ,,, :sneaky2:

[Alaskan Survivalist]

It would be interesting to me to see the best, most survival related posts made by some of the funny guys. I'm fairly new and have seen several by Ken but not so much from others. I dig through the archives and have not found anything meaningful posted by some.

[Justin Case]

It would be interesting to me to see the best, most survival related posts made by some of the funny guys. I'm fairly new and have seen several by Ken but not so much from others. I dig through the archives and have not found anything meaningful posted by some.

You must have missed my recipe for "Space Sticks" then :sneaky2: ;)

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11702

I may not have written very many but I sure have read a lot of them,,, In fact, I think I have given you rep more than once ,,,, I know I tried to anyway ;)

[Justin Case]

Here is my Rep,, Some for Funny,, some for serious,, Just sayin '

Time to start watching... 03-26-2010 07:58 PM excellent safety thread. It's time to beware of snakes! ycc
VIDEO of the Day. 03-20-2010 10:43 AM Nice find, scary, h63
1st Crow With RRA!! 03-15-2010 10:00 AM hilarious, thanks for pointing it out--trax
Nudist Church, Clothes... 03-07-2010 07:16 AM Funny.
Leaving Home 02-22-2010 09:27 PM Funny guy - Ken

[Alaskan Survivalist]

You must have missed my recipe for "Space Sticks" then :sneaky2: ;)

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11702

I may not have written very many but I sure have read a lot of them,,, In fact, I think I have given you rep more than once ,,,, I know I tried to anyway ;)

That is a good post! I guess what we are saying we want more of that. A better balance. I had not read it because the title did not grab my interest thinking it was a less serious post. I still pose the question and would like to see others put me in my place as you have. It's like seeing the other side of people.

[Pal334]

I guess I could be included in the "funny guy" category.

Fire arms drills



Real Time Example



Mental Preparedness



Sickle and scythe



Chain Saw sawmill



Reality Check



Electric Generator, Steam driven



How to Build an Outhouse



Mold on Food



Extreme cold and Firearms



Thinking outside the box


MMMM,, guess the links did not show

[Icemancometh]

Obviously are upset because you have no sense of humor and the jokes are going over your head ,,, :sneaky2:

HUH? I don't get it. :cold:

But seriously, it does get a bit much. If you have read the other posts you have seen that it is not only me that finds it old and tired. I am all for a good joke but I would suggest a seperate section for the funny stuff. Like Doug I belong to many different forums and most of them have a seperate section. Ultimately I say do it how the majority or Chris chooses.

[Justin Case]

I think The vast Majority of the jokes happen in General Chat already,,

[DOGMAN]

I don't think I've ever posted anything relative to survival...strictly funny business for me. I don't feel comfortable posting on things I don't know anything about. So, i just stick to off color jokes!

[Justin Case]

I don't think I've ever posted anything relative to survival...strictly funny business for me. I don't feel comfortable posting on things I don't know anything about. So, i just stick to off color jokes!

Now Thats what I'm Talking about, Pick one thing and do it well ! :innocent::)

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

�айт (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)�айт (http://cottagenet.ru)�айт (http://eyesvision.ru)�айт (http://eyesvisions.com)�айт (http://factoringfee.ru)�айт (http://filmzones.ru)�айт (http://gadwall.ru)�айт (http://gaffertape.ru)�айт (http://gageboard.ru)�айт (http://gagrule.ru)�айт (http://gallduct.ru)�айт (http://galvanometric.ru)�айт (http://gangforeman.ru)�айт (http://gangwayplatform.ru)�айт (http://garbagechute.ru)
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�айт (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)�айт (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)�айт (http://kentishglory.ru)�айт (http://kerbweight.ru)�айт (http://kerrrotation.ru)�айт (http://keymanassurance.ru)�айт (http://keyserum.ru)�айт (http://kickplate.ru)�айт (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)�айт (http://kilowattsecond.ru)�айт (http://kingweakfish.ru)�айт (http://kinozones.ru)�айт (http://kleinbottle.ru)�айт (http://kneejoint.ru)�айт (http://knifesethouse.ru)
�айт (http://knockonatom.ru)�айт (http://knowledgestate.ru)�айт (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)�айт (http://labeledgraph.ru)�айт (http://laborracket.ru)�айт (http://labourearnings.ru)�айт (http://labourleasing.ru)�айт (http://laburnumtree.ru)�айт (http://lacingcourse.ru)�айт (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)�айт (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)�айт (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)�айт (http://ladletreatediron.ru)�айт (http://laggingload.ru)�айт (http://laissezaller.ru)
�айт (http://lambdatransition.ru)�айт (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)�айт (http://lammasshoot.ru)�айт (http://lamphouse.ru)�айт (http://lancecorporal.ru)�айт (http://lancingdie.ru)�айт (http://landingdoor.ru)�айт (http://landmarksensor.ru)�айт (http://landreform.ru)�айт (http://landuseratio.ru)�айт (http://languagelaboratory.ru)�айт (http://largeheart.ru)�айт (http://lasercalibration.ru)�айт (http://laserlens.ru)�айт (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

�айт (http://laterevent.ru)�айт (http://latrinesergeant.ru)�айт (http://layabout.ru)�айт (http://leadcoating.ru)�айт (http://leadingfirm.ru)�айт (http://learningcurve.ru)�айт (http://leaveword.ru)�айт (http://machinesensible.ru)�айт (http://magneticequator.ru)�айт (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)�айт (http://mailinghouse.ru)�айт (http://majorconcern.ru)�айт (http://mammasdarling.ru)�айт (http://managerialstaff.ru)�айт (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
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�айт (http://obstructivepatent.ru)�айт (http://oceanmining.ru)�айт (http://octupolephonon.ru)�айт (http://offlinesystem.ru)�айт (http://offsetholder.ru)�айт (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)�айт (http://onesticket.ru)�айт (http://packedspheres.ru)�айт (http://pagingterminal.ru)�айт (http://palatinebones.ru)�айт (http://palmberry.ru)�айт (http://papercoating.ru)�айт (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)�айт (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)�айт (http://parkingbrake.ru)
�айт (http://partfamily.ru)�айт (http://partialmajorant.ru)�айт (http://quadrupleworm.ru)�айт (http://qualitybooster.ru)�айт (http://quasimoney.ru)�айт (http://quenchedspark.ru)�айт (http://quodrecuperet.ru)�айт (http://rabbetledge.ru)�айт (http://radialchaser.ru)�айт (http://radiationestimator.ru)�айт (http://railwaybridge.ru)�айт (http://randomcoloration.ru)�айт (http://rapidgrowth.ru)�айт (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)�айт (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
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�айт (http://scarcecommodity.ru)�айт (http://scrapermat.ru)�айт (http://screwingunit.ru)�айт (http://seawaterpump.ru)�айт (http://secondaryblock.ru)�айт (http://secularclergy.ru)�айт (http://seismicefficiency.ru)�айт (http://selectivediffuser.ru)�айт (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)�айт (http://semifinishmachining.ru)�айт (http://spicetrade.ru)�айт (http://spysale.ru)�айт (http://stungun.ru)�айт (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)�айт (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
�айт (http://tamecurve.ru)�айт (http://tapecorrection.ru)�айт (http://tappingchuck.ru)�айт (http://taskreasoning.ru)�айт (http://technicalgrade.ru)�айт (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)�айт (http://telescopicdamper.ru)�айт (http://temperateclimate.ru)�айт (http://temperedmeasure.ru)�айт (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)�айт (http://ultramaficrock.ru)�айт (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

дей� (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/1825)585 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/613).... (http://eyesvision.ru/physics/1)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com/better-eyesight-magazine-better-eyesight-1926-03)Anja (http://factoringfee.ru/t/468729)Фатх (http://filmzones.ru/t/133689)Папа (http://gadwall.ru/t/196351)Yash (http://gaffertape.ru/t/348586)Lisa (http://gageboard.ru/t/383322)Jane (http://gagrule.ru/t/262222)Juli (http://gallduct.ru/t/664640)�рда (http://galvanometric.ru/t/298524)Deko (http://gangforeman.ru/t/141791)пазл (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/166974)ЕТуд (http://garbagechute.ru/t/817718)
Alex (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/141256)чита (http://gascautery.ru/t/301009)pass (http://gashbucket.ru/t/179026)упак (http://gasreturn.ru/t/463216)Кита (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/558433)Крав (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/675330)Kenj (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/672334)Orie (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/448456)Coca (http://geartreating.ru/t/567541)Cair (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/349090)Вели (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/481630)Clas (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/558958)Vers (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/138582)Rose (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/138608)Glis (http://getthebounce.ru/t/137770)
Alla (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/626113)Harm (http://habituate.ru/t/624622)Заха (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/292664)Jewe (http://hackworker.ru/t/622890)DJma (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/623190)С�03 (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/573591)Char (http://hailsquall.ru/t/139475)XVII (http://hairysphere.ru/t/298693)Cred (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/560868)Expe (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/561633)Шпет (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/443028)Mipa (http://haltstate.ru/t/392084)Mari (http://handcoding.ru/t/565183)Jack (http://handportedhead.ru/t/639272)Кант (http://handradar.ru/t/541027)
Oral (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/137552)Бехт (http://hangonpart.ru/t/77318)ТДел (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/294239)Shan (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/262374)Albe (http://hardasiron.ru/t/297110)Jewe (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/565957)Quer (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/301857)Stag (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/140651)BONU (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/174293)Кочи (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/279671)молн (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/155982)T6YN (http://headregulator.ru/t/166473)Clau (http://heartofgold.ru/t/172971)по�т (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/244877)Козл (http://heatinggas.ru/t/316893)
Jenn (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/304358)Иллю (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/279321)авто (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/303500)Roxy (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/601664)Niki (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/602533)Roxy (http://jobstress.ru/t/602514)Mari (http://jogformation.ru/t/606082)форм (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/549377)Vers (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/541899)Digi (http://journallubricator.ru/t/140950)Just (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/522997)John (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/295848)Triu (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/303967)Боро (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/303560)канд (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/300456)
prof (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/299210)Март (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/303372)Kene (http://kentishglory.ru/t/343855)Rumi (http://kerbweight.ru/t/193520)Clau (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/337255)Иллю (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/292464)XVII (http://keyserum.ru/t/245453)кара (http://kickplate.ru/t/157232)Ente (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/604064)кара (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/605075)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/608347)[/url][url=http://kleinbottle.ru/t/604090]Fuxi (http://kinozones.ru/film/1825)чиÑ�Ñ‚ (http://kneejoint.ru/t/604189)Ð*або (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/593277)
Лани (http://knockonatom.ru/t/319360)Fuxi (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/603932)Jewe (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/168875)Will (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/770402)3506 (http://laborracket.ru/t/157395)Miyo (http://labourearnings.ru/t/158097)Избр (http://labourleasing.ru/t/298262)Малы (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/374669)в�ка (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/497339)Зорь (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/492713)Patr (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/509798)Талы (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/281096)Вейд (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/72364)Endl (http://laggingload.ru/t/196481)Пете (http://laissezaller.ru/t/293872)
Bell (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/166030)Char (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/280400)разн (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/265850)печа (http://lamphouse.ru/t/299422)авто (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/279485)�вое (http://lancingdie.ru/t/69461)Samu (http://landingdoor.ru/t/196350)Шо�т (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/281693)тече (http://landreform.ru/t/339753)XVII (http://landuseratio.ru/t/291993)заме (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/479277)укра (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1782573)Клам (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1708585)Citi (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1834)Elec (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/1030382)

[yellowcab]

Saka (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1194857)Sele (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/451786)Севе (http://layabout.ru/shop/600974)Book (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1327174)конÑ� (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/464669)Book (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/794515)C254 (http://leaveword.ru/shop/1026660)Rudo (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/447013)9936 (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/861978)4500 (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/789644)Olme (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/557996)Возд (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/788912)Case (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/1142828)TOYO (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/613815)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175799)
нача (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1179350)Ñ�озр (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1825)Clas (http://mp3lists.ru/item/1825)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1486115)XVII (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/1033937)перк (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/462941)рабо (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1206820)Ермо (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/861902)набо (http://navelseed.ru/shop/454081)Hans (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/460295)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/186223)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/652145)mail (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/653201)цвет (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/471854)supe (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/95650)
Ñ�ерт (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/1032602)Ener (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/94461)Chow (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571440)Бонд (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/150928)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/1254205)ЛитÐ* (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/288242)Year (http://onesticket.ru/shop/583985)Карп (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/585260)Шило (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/689479)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/690392)McCa (http://palmberry.ru/shop/956325)Пучк (http://papercoating.ru/shop/682264)недв (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/1056766)Каза (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1696164)(184 (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1176921)
обо� (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1379353)Мо�к (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1489981)Cutt (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1545336)Лейк (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1630916)Волк (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/642943)Mitc (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/913497)Вита (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1195137)кино (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1421522)Atla (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/1458808)�гла (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/517487)Кува (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/872699)Сург (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/930786)и�по (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1078626)ребе (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1401406)Шифр (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1503834)
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