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Ken
04-13-2010, 11:15 AM
Here we have it, folks! :sneaky2:

The President's top science and technology advisor, some jack@ss named Dr. John P. Holdren, again confirmed this past Friday what many have suspected for a long time: Our administration believes that United States should be a second rate nation, that our policy should acknowledge that it's in the "world's best interests" if we are no longer "Number 1", and that we should assist other nations in their efforts to surpass us. Can you say "GLOBALIZATION?"

The official position of our administration is that we should accept a "level" international playing field and no longer expect to be "Number 1" in science and technology; in fact, we should cooperate and strive to achieve our own decline in the international community.

I think I'm gonna' puke.

I guess it's easier to succeed if you simply keep lowering the bar and your standards and your goals. Can you say "MANAGED DECLINE?"

I can just imagine the response that guys like President Ronald Reagan and General George Patton would have had to those who argue that we should strive for mediocrity while we help other nations in their efforts to make us "has-beens." :sneaky2:

We cant expect to be number one in everything indefinitely, Dr. John P. Holdren said at the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).

Holdren is director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy and chairs the Presidents Council of Advisors on Science & Technology (PCAST), making him the top science adviser in the administration."

Read his remarks:

http://citadelcc.vo.llnwd.net/o29/network/Levin/MP3/ShowAudio/HOLDREN-NEEFUS.doc

Listen to him spew his horsecrap:

http://www.lonelyconservative.com/2010/04/13/john-holdren-we-cant-expect-to-be-1-in-everything-indefinitely/
Justin Case
04-13-2010, 11:30 AM
Yeah,, That guy is a nut ! We aren't #1 in everything Now,, (oil production for example)
BENESSE
04-13-2010, 11:55 AM
This has been a self-fulfilling prophecy for quite awhile now.
We're just witnessing a moronic effort of putting a positive spin on throwing in the towel.
It seems that what we do best is give up on things that really matter while stubbornly pursuing others that will never do us any good.

If the country doesn't have it's priorities in the right place, it's citizens won't either.
Ken
04-13-2010, 12:13 PM
There are leaders who would lead us into the future and there are leaders who would lead us off a cliff. You decide which one we have now.

"His greatest legacy was giving America back its optimism and its sense of pride."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu959eqbti8
canid
04-13-2010, 12:14 PM
While I believe we, as a nation have the strength and resolve to be anything we want to, we certainly didn't get that way by wishful thinking alone.

We are a country who's authority, and therefore it's policy and behavior is derived from the consent of the people. For this reason I would say it's the other way around; that if we citizens don't have our priorities in the right place, out country won't either.
Ken
04-13-2010, 12:31 PM
While I believe we, as a nation have the strength and resolve to be anything we want to, we certainly didn't get that way by wishful thinking alone.

Canid, I agree. However, without optimism and a competitive spirit, we'll have no chance of success or the kind of future I'd like to see.

No nation can have any hope for the future when its leaders place that nation's interests second to the interests of others.
Pal334
04-13-2010, 12:39 PM
I can say that he does not speak for me, or anyone I know. I have never accepted mediocre performance and never will. Listening to slugs (an educated slug, but a slug anyway you cut it) puke this type of crap is sickening. Through out our history, we have been up , then down, never by design, it is just the way it is. If we listened to this "stuff" we would be teaching our kids that "ok" is acceptable and don't worry about doing your best in evrything you do. I would never "throw in the towel" on anything I did or do. By doing that, I would be failing my kids, my grand kids and my family. And that "ain't going to happen. If people listen to that for too long, they believe it and then what happens, a socialist state were "ok" is ok. Nope, not me!!!!! I like our form of government with all of its warts an imperfections. Many other people must like it also, they are trying to get in every day.

Thanks Ken for tripping that trigger :)
finallyME
04-13-2010, 12:41 PM
Sounds like we need more scientists and engineers and less......well...lawyers. :smash:
Ken
04-13-2010, 12:58 PM
Sounds like we need more scientists and engineers and less......well...lawyers. :smash:

Well, that's an interesting (although from you, not entirely unexpected :innocent:) observation.

Holdren is a scientist. I am a lawyer. Each of us would lead you in a completely different direction. Who would you choose to follow?
2dumb2kwit
04-13-2010, 01:34 PM
Well, that's an interesting (although from you, not entirely unexpected :innocent:) observation.

Holdren is a scientist. I am a lawyer. Each of us would lead you in a completely different direction. Who would you choose to follow?

Well, there are exceptions to every rule.:innocent:
Take me for example.......I'm a dummy, but I'm not like your typical dummy.:innocent: LOL
2dumb2kwit
04-13-2010, 01:40 PM
All joking aside, what does it say about a so called leader, to tell people that they should not try to be the best that they can be?

Next, we'll be telling kids in school, that it doesn't matter if they can pass a test, and we'll stop keeping score at childrens ball games, and tell them that it doesn't matter.......

....Oh, wait.:blushing:
Ken
04-13-2010, 01:44 PM
....Oh, wait.:blushing:

Exactly! :sneaky2:
finallyME
04-13-2010, 02:11 PM
Well, that's an interesting (although from you, not entirely unexpected :innocent:) observation.

Holdren is a scientist. I am a lawyer. Each of us would lead you in a completely different direction. Who would you choose to follow?

Touche.

Dude, that guy is CRAZY.
http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/

What's up with all the wacko's from Mass?

Well, he is right about everything he says in the article you linked to.

We cant expect to be number one in everything indefinitely,
Yeah, especially if we continue to subvert science and math in schools and continue to make every kid equal, instead of fast tracking the smart ones. In other words, if we sit down and stop playing the game, we will lose.

Its a problem if everybody who we graduate from our universities who is originally from another country goes backinvite some of them to stay, he said. And we make it, in some respects, too hard to stay. Some people have suggested we should staple a green card to every Ph.D. in science and engineering that we give to a non-U.S. citizen. So again, like so many of the very good questions you folks are asking, this one has no really tidy answer, but were trying to work it on a number of fronts.

Dude, what is up with the band-aid? The real problem is that we have tons of high paying technical jobs in THIS country and we can't fill those jobs with Americans. That is a big problem. We need to train Americans to fill those positions, not outsource. We aren't outsourcing to the cheapest bidder, we are outsourcing to the only option. We pay them the same.

A massive campaign must be launched to restore a high-quality environment in North America and to de-develop the United States, Holdren and two co-authors wrote. De-development means bringing our economic system (especially patterns of consumption) into line with the realities of ecology and the global resource situation. Resources and energy must be diverted from frivolous and wasteful uses of overdeveloped countries to filling the genuine needs of underdeveloped countries.

This is true, especially when the US is increasing its dependence on hand outs. Eventually we will need to find someone else to get the handouts from, because we have stripped our own pockets. So, by building up other countries, we are essential providing ourselves with future partners to support our increasingly lazy society.
Ken
04-13-2010, 02:20 PM
What's up with all the wacko's from Mass?

C'mon, do your homework, fM. Us lawyers gotta' teach you engineers EVERYTHING? :sneaky2:

Holdren was born in Sewickley, PA, and grew up in San Mateo, CA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Holdren

(http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/#cite_note-belfer-2)
BENESSE
04-13-2010, 02:20 PM
All joking aside, what does it say about a so called leader, to tell people that they should not try to be the best that they can be?

Next, we'll be telling kids in school, that it doesn't matter if they can pass a test, and we'll stop keeping score at childrens ball games, and tell them that it doesn't matter.......

....Oh, wait.:blushing:

Who's WE?
Each one of us has the responsibility to raise our own kids with all the values we deem important, regardless of what THEY say.
I was raised to do the right thing even if I ended up being the only one. No excuses, no room for compromise. I have a feeling most WSF members were raised the same way.
Ultimately, I don't care which dickweed says what, I know what I'll be doing and it won't be getting dumb and lazy while waiting for others to make up for my lack of responsibility and drive.

And to all those who just woke up, I've got a news flash: While you were napping we've been steadily inching toward the cliff for the last 9 years. Now that we've arrived you're questioning the directions?
2dumb2kwit
04-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Who's WE?
Each one of us has the responsibility to raise our own kids with all the values we deem important, regardless of what THEY say.
I was raised to do the right thing even if I ended up being the only one. No excuses, no room for compromise. I have a feeling most WSF members were raised the same way.
Ultimately, I don't care which dickweed says what, I know what I'll be doing and it won't be getting dumb and lazy while waiting for others to make up for my lack of responsibility and drive.

And to all those who just woke up, I've got a news flash: While you were napping we've been steadily inching toward the cliff for the last 9 years. Now that we've arrived you're questioning the directions?

By We, I meant America as a whole. Yes, there will always be a certain number of people like us, but the numbers of non-achievers will keep growing, if we stay complacent.

And don't try the "Why blame the (insert whatever name we're supposed to be bigoted against, here.)" I've been saying what I'm saying, for more than 9 years. In fact, the problem goes back much further than that.
2dumb2kwit
04-13-2010, 02:36 PM
we've been steadily inching toward the cliff for the last 9 years. Now that we've arrived you're questioning the directions?

No. We are getting dangerously close to the cliff, and some people are shifting us into over-drive, and haulin' arse towards the cliff. It's time to speak up a little louder.:innocent:
BENESSE
04-13-2010, 02:40 PM
By We, I meant America as a whole. Yes, there will always be a certain number of people like us, but the numbers of non-achievers will keep growing, if we stay complacent.
:cold:
And don't try the "Why blame the (insert whatever name we're supposed to be bigoted against, here.)" I've been saying what I'm saying, for more than 9 years. In fact, the problem goes back much further than that.

That's good to know. (I agree of course)
Some folks around here need to be reminded of that every once in a while. Those with a short term memory of 2 years.
BENESSE
04-13-2010, 02:44 PM
No. We are getting dangerously close to the cliff, and some people are shifting us into over-drive, and haulin' arse towards the cliff. It's time to speak up a little louder.:innocent:

If you spoke up a little louder when you first noticed we were off course (more than 9 years ago--your words) maybe we'd be at a rest stop somewhere having a beer instead in front of a cliff pointing fingers.
2dumb2kwit
04-13-2010, 02:45 PM
That's good to know. (I agree of course)
Some folks around here need to be reminded of that every once in a while. Those with a short term memory of 2 years.

Get the heck out of here! I bet you didn't think, before you typed that!!! LOL:innocent::blushing::tongue_smilie:
2dumb2kwit
04-13-2010, 02:48 PM
If you spoke up a little louder when you first noticed we were off course (more than 9 years ago--your words) maybe we'd be at a rest stop somewhere having a beer instead in front of a cliff pointing fingers.

Just because we didn't ye'll loud enough then, doesn't mean that we should stand by silently now, while people are pushing us closer to the cliff, does it?
2dumb2kwit
04-13-2010, 02:51 PM
...and how about the people who weren't paying attention before? Now that they are, should they not speak up, about the wrongs that they see?
BENESSE
04-13-2010, 03:01 PM
Just because we didn't ye'll loud enough then, doesn't mean that we should stand by silently now, while people are pushing us closer to the cliff, does it?

No one is suggesting that we stand by silently.
Let's just not be hypocritical when we decide to speak.
Justin Case
04-13-2010, 03:10 PM
If you spoke up a little louder when you first noticed we were off course (more than 9 years ago--your words) maybe we'd be at a rest stop somewhere having a beer instead in front of a cliff pointing fingers.

I Agree ! :)
BENESSE
04-13-2010, 03:17 PM
...and how about the people who weren't paying attention before? Now that they are, should they not speak up, about the wrongs that they see?

Just because people weren't paying attention during previous $hit storms doesn't mean we aren't all suffering from the fallout.
We just have new $hit now and that's what everyone's shoveling. But the fallout is just as dangerous and it would be shortsighted to ignore it.
Ken
04-13-2010, 03:23 PM
Just because people weren't paying attention during previous $hit storms doesn't mean we aren't all suffering from the fallout.

Those storms seem to drop far more $hit in some places than others.

http://www.adventureassoc.com/us/washington-dc.gif

We need to send in some heavy equipment to plow out the capitol. :sneaky2:
BENESSE
04-13-2010, 03:42 PM
Those storms seem to drop far more $hit in some places than others.

http://www.adventureassoc.com/us/washington-dc.gif

We need to send in some heavy equipment to plow out the capitol. :sneaky2:

Well we've got no one to blame but ourselves.
Maybe if we weren't sending in heavy equipment to plow out other people's $hit in their own countries we could have used it to plow out our own. But then other people's $hit always smells worse than our own until we really step in it.:sneaky2:
Ken
04-13-2010, 03:55 PM
Well we've got no one to blame but ourselves.
Maybe if we weren't sending in heavy equipment to plow out other people's $hit in their own countries we could have used it to plow out our own. But then other people's $hit always smells worse than our own until we really step in it.:sneaky2:

Well, I've usually been in the VOCAL minority for the last 35 years or so. Most of my votes have been cast for the losers in our elections since I turned 18, and all of my contributions have gone to the people I've voted for. And I've voted in every single election here in the last 35 years. Even though I live in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts.
BENESSE
04-13-2010, 04:03 PM
Well, I've usually been in the VOCAL minority for the last 35 years or so. Most of my votes have been cast for the losers in our elections since I turned 18, and all of my contributions have gone to the people I've voted for. And I've voted in every single election here in the last 35 years. Even though I live in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts.

Apparently you and I have something in common.
finallyME
04-13-2010, 04:54 PM
And to all those who just woke up, I've got a news flash: While you were napping we've been steadily inching toward the cliff for the last 9 years. Now that we've arrived you're questioning the directions?

9 years. :confused1: It started with FDR and has gotten worse ever since.
BENESSE
04-13-2010, 05:14 PM
9 years. :confused1: It started with FDR and has gotten worse ever since.

I guess I was more optimistic, but you're certainly making my point even stronger.:)
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yellowcab
12-04-2025, 07:09 AM
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yellowcab
12-04-2025, 07:10 AM
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yellowcab
03-04-2026, 08:40 AM
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yellowcab
03-04-2026, 08:41 AM
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yellowcab
05-14-2026, 09:08 PM
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05-14-2026, 09:09 PM
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