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View Full Version : HELP! 20 gal. of H2O down the drain



BENESSE
03-27-2010, 10:10 AM
I have a question about how to store drinking water safely and long-term. Over the past couple of years, we've purchased many brands (e.g., Poland Spring) and types (distilled, natural spring, filtered) of drinking water in various kinds of plastic containers (primarily 1 & 5 gallon jugs like the typical opaque style that milk comes in). Invariably, 6 to 12 months later, regardless of brand or type, the jugs spring a leak and begin to slowly "implode" (dimples that deepen as more and more water leaks out). Recently we purchased some Poland Spring gallon jugs that are crystal clear plastic (like soda bottles, as opposed to the wax paper opacity of our usual purchases)... these don't seem to developing any leaks so far, but they're our newest purchases so we're still not confident they'll be safe. Interestingly, the leaks we've experienced occur well before the expiration date (the jugs we threw away yesterday were about 1 year old and the expiration date is 2011).
Frankly I'm stumped. Any ideas?

Ken
03-27-2010, 10:19 AM
Did you know that some brands are actually bottled in biodegradable jugs and bottles? http://nativwater.com/

Where are you storing them? Are they near a heat or light source?

BENESSE
03-27-2010, 10:41 AM
Did you know that some brands are actually bottled in biodegradable jugs and bottles? http://nativwater.com/

Where are you storing them? Are they near a heat or light source?

They are under our bed in waterproof canvas satchels. No heat source near, no light.
The previous time we used another brand, stored the jugs in a dark closet and forgot about them only to discover ruined hardwood floor from all the slow leaks.
Didn't know about biodegradable jugs, don't know if these were. But then why the expiration date of 2yrs from the time of purchase? That's what I was going by.

Ken
03-27-2010, 11:23 AM
They are under our bed in waterproof canvas satchels.

Treated canvas? Do they ever come in contact with the bottom of the bed when it "moves?" :blushing:

I have mine stored in all sorts of containers, from barrels to 8 oz. bottles. The barrels are in the basement on 4x4's covered with 3/4" plywood. The rest is on shelves. Never had one leak.

BENESSE
03-27-2010, 11:48 AM
Treated canvas? Do they ever come in contact with the bottom of the bed when it "moves?" :blushing:

I have mine stored in all sorts of containers, from barrels to 8 oz. bottles. The barrels are in the basement on 4x4's covered with 3/4" plywood. The rest is on shelves. Never had one leak.

No, there's almost 10" clearance.:sneaky2:
Unfortunately that's the only place where I can store it without having the place look like a Home Depot.
This is store bought water, unopened, untempered with exactly like these brands.
Might have to call the manufacturer & see what the deal is, the thieving, misleading weasels.

Ken
03-27-2010, 12:01 PM
No, there's almost 10" clearance.:sneaky2:

That's what you assume. :) Have you ever been under the bed when it was "moving?" Just "yes" or "no" - I don't need any details....... :innocent:

Ken
03-27-2010, 12:08 PM
Okay, back to the "science" of the matter. I'll take over the science issues since Rick's not around. :innocent:

Here are some things to consider about plastic packaging:

http://nativwater.com/images/ENSO_CHART1000.jpg (http://nativwater.com/images/ENSO_CHART1000.jpg)

SARKY
03-27-2010, 12:13 PM
www.incaseof.ca/supertanker.htm

Benesse,

check this out, you can use regular or filtered tap water in it then put Oxy-Safe in the water to extend it's shelf life.

Ken
03-27-2010, 12:13 PM
Please note that Native Waters is not in any way associated with Nativedude. Nativedude did NOT have an indefinite shelf life. He biodegraded as soon as klkak shined some light on him. I guess you could say that he was "photodegradable." :innocent:

hunter63
03-27-2010, 01:04 PM
I guess I would have to say that I don't store water, for long term.

I guess I've heard enough of the off gassing, leaching, now biodegradable plastics, that I like to "rotate my stock".

I dump out all my "camping" water jugs, baby water gal jugs, and fruit juice heavy gal jugs, twice a year.
Total potable water is around 50 gal. I do treat tap water with chlorine.
Bottled water maybe 2-3 cases are rotated.
BENESSE, I'm glad it was posted that they leak, I would have found out the hard way, thanks.

The daylight saving time, time table has become a major day around here.

Clocks, smoke/CO detectors batteries, all flashlight batteries, and generally repack vehicle BOB's for winter/summer, and rotate stock.

Rick
03-27-2010, 01:45 PM
I have a couple of stackable 5 gallon water storage containers and I've never had a problem with them. They are pretty thick plastic. They look like ...

https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/images/md/water_barrel_5_gallons.jpg

I don't remember if I bought them here or not but here's a place that sells them pretty cheap.

https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/emergency_supplies/water_barrel_5_gallons.htm

The spigot fits the lid. It's pre-scored so you just knock out the center of the lid and screw in the spigot.

https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/emergency_supplies/water_barrel_drum_spigot.htm

Justin Case
03-27-2010, 01:59 PM
Water heater.

http://www.chandleraz.gov/Content/GB_WaterHeater.jpg

Rick
03-27-2010, 02:00 PM
Yeah, yeah. But I can't throw that in the back of the truck.

hunter63
03-27-2010, 02:05 PM
Yeah, yeah. But I can't throw that in the back of the truck.

Well, you can, but it's real PITA, even when empty..............

Badawg
03-27-2010, 02:15 PM
I store in 30 gallon food grade barrels and 6 gallon jugs. We recently had a water service outage due to a main break and boy was I happy to have it. They brought out a Buffalo and all the neighbors had to lug water while I just smiled...

We have a propane fired Zodi camp shower too, and that made me very "popular" with my wife...

Winnie
03-27-2010, 02:25 PM
Bee, I think it was Rick who recommended purchasing water carriers (camping type) and using ordinary tap water treated with a bit of bleach. It's a lot cheaper than buying water and I intend to throw the water away ( put it in the waterbutt actually) every so often anyway. I've only had water stored a couple of months thus far though, so don't know about how the water carriers hold up to long term storage yet. I've got mine stored in black bin liners in the scullery.

crashdive123
03-27-2010, 02:34 PM
Winnie - I've never had a problem since I've been using water containers that are similar to the ones Rick described.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Emergency%20Gear/Emergencypreparednesssupplies023.jpg

Badawg
03-27-2010, 02:44 PM
Those reliance Brand ones are the way to go!

BENESSE
03-27-2010, 03:07 PM
My own water containers is the ticket, then.
I'll order the ones Rick uses and add some Oxy-Safe Sarky recommended.
Chart appreciated, Ken. Puts things in perspective.
btw...no, I haven't been under the bed when it's moving. How come you have? Anything to do with the X?

Ken
03-27-2010, 03:13 PM
btw...no, I haven't been under the bed when it's moving. How come you have? Anything to do with the X?

Actually, I haven't. The thing keeps slamming into the floor. It's bad enough when it hits the ceiling. :innocent:

Winnie
03-27-2010, 03:48 PM
Winnie - I've never had a problem since I've been using water containers that are similar to the ones Rick described.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Emergency%20Gear/Emergencypreparednesssupplies023.jpg

In that case, neither will I! The containers I purchased are remarkably similar.:)

BENESSE
03-27-2010, 06:16 PM
Actually, I haven't. The thing keeps slamming into the floor. It's bad enough when it hits the ceiling. :innocent:

Maybe it's time to change that hospital bed for a real one.
I thought you were doing better.

crashdive123
03-27-2010, 07:27 PM
Oops. Sorry about that Winnie and Benesse. I meant to address my post to Benesse (or anyybody that was viewing I guess).:blushing:

Rick
03-27-2010, 08:10 PM
I try to change the water out ever couple of months. I don't always get it done, especially during the winter but 3 or 4 times a year at least. I just dump the water, clean out the containers with a small amount of soap and a good shake, follow with a good rinse, then refill. That way I don't need to treat the water and I always have fresh or reasonably fresh water and I'm not concerned about bacteria, mold or mildew.

Justin Case
03-27-2010, 08:27 PM
I try to change the water out ever couple of months. I don't always get it done, especially during the winter but 3 or 4 times a year at least. I just dump the water, clean out the containers with a small amount of soap and a good shake, follow with a good rinse, then refill. That way I don't need to treat the water and I always have fresh or reasonably fresh water and I'm not concerned about bacteria, mold or mildew.

Remember this? Water purification calculator, http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10624

I think even with Fresh water there is a Risk when storing it,, ?

BENESSE
03-27-2010, 08:35 PM
I try to change the water out ever couple of months. I don't always get it done, especially during the winter but 3 or 4 times a year at least. I just dump the water, clean out the containers with a small amount of soap and a good shake, follow with a good rinse, then refill. That way I don't need to treat the water and I always have fresh or reasonably fresh water and I'm not concerned about bacteria, mold or mildew.

What about a bit of white vinegar the clean them out and kill any plastic taste?

We each have a hydration back pack for skiing and just can't get rid of the plastic taste that comes from the bladder. Someone on the slopes suggested white vinegar but we haven't tried it yet.

Also, just ordered 4 of those containers you suggested--do you think they'd be OK stored on their sides instead of upright? Wish I could stack them up but they'll have to fit under the bed.

BENESSE
03-27-2010, 08:45 PM
Remember this? Water purification calculator, http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10624

I think even with Fresh water there is a Risk when storing it,, ?

Thanks JS that's helpful.
I am kind of reluctant to use chlorine if I don't absolutely have to but I do like the sound of this product Sarky recommended-Oxy-Safe.
http://2kstore.net/2kstor/water/ws6.htm

Justin Case
03-27-2010, 08:53 PM
Thanks JS that's helpful.
I am kind of reluctant to use chlorine if I don't absolutely have to but I do like the sound of this product Sarky recommended-Oxy-Safe.
http://2kstore.net/2kstor/water/ws6.htm

Yes, That looks pretty good :)

BENESSE
03-27-2010, 08:59 PM
While I was looking for solutions to my H2O problem I stumbled over this site. OMG, so fun and informative!
http://lost-technology.com/blog/?page_id=73

finallyME
03-28-2010, 11:37 PM
We store our water in soda bottles (in Utah they call it "pop" which sounds gay). Once we finish with some root beer or sprite etc. we refill it with water. We only do this with 2 liters and up. Unfortunately, here in Utah we only get 2 liters, no 3 liters like in Texas. The soda bottles are really good. If you look at the chart that Ken put up, PET was the best one. Soda bottles are made from PET. They are also made to withstand some pressure, so the seal on the lid is pretty good. The trick is to make sure there is no air in the bottle. When you fill it up, keep the water running into it while you put the lid on. Bacteria needs air and light and warmth. Try and take as much of that away as possible. Anyways, we have never had one leak in the few years we have been storing water. My dad instructed me and wife on the proper water storage method and has been doing it a little longer. Oh yeah, we also mark the date we filled it on the bottle. We also use large gatoraide bottles. Good luck.

TucsonMax
03-30-2010, 10:52 PM
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Emergency%20Gear/Emergencypreparednesssupplies023.jpg

I bought 8 of Crash's style, aqua color at bottom from Walmart for $9 each. They hold 6 gals and will last forever. There's no Walmart in NYC, so google "water jugs" (select images) and you'll see them and places to buy online. Also, consider paying a bit more for the two handle models. (Not what I did.) 6 Gallons weighs 50lbs! and you don't want to spill a drop, so two handles makes pouring much easier.

Also, consider as back-up 5 Gallon Collapsible Water Carrier/Jugs. These are heavy duty plastic that you can store and then fill when needed. I have about 20 put away. Here's a picture: http://www.stansport.com/v2/product.php?product_id=99 Get ones w/ two handles and on/off spouts.

Wise Old Owl
03-30-2010, 11:04 PM
Bessie, you are surrounded by distiller delivery companys. I get the 5 gallon clear with a handle jugs delivered and use a small water pot with a spigot I got from the dollar store that the jugs can sit on.... don't forget to rotate every several years.

BENESSE
03-31-2010, 08:04 AM
Bessie, you are surrounded by distiller delivery companys. I get the 5 gallon clear with a handle jugs delivered and use a small water pot with a spigot I got from the dollar store that the jugs can sit on.... don't forget to rotate every several years.

WOL, got those 2 years ago and they leaked after a year.
They'd start caving in a bit and "sweating", hardly noticeable until you discover a wet floor. If I had more space I'd consider having those big water cooler bottles delivered but unfortunately it's tight around here.

TM, I've been intrigued by those 5 Gallon Collapsible Water Carrier/Jugs. Have you used them for storage and what do you think? I do like the idea behind them but am leery of softer plastic for long term use.

BENESSE
03-31-2010, 08:14 AM
I bought 8 of Crash's style, aqua color at bottom from Walmart for $9 each. They hold 6 gals and will last forever. There's no Walmart in NYC, so google "water jugs" (select images) and you'll see them and places to buy online. Also, consider paying a bit more for the two handle models. (Not what I did.) 6 Gallons weighs 50lbs! and you don't want to spill a drop, so two handles makes pouring much easier.


TM, thanks for the tip! In addition to ordering the ones Rick recommended, I'm considering these:
http://outdoor-living.hardwarestore.com/58-235-water-jugs/ventless-water-can-135160.aspx

BENESSE
03-31-2010, 08:28 AM
I also considered these from a reputable co. until I read the reviews. Seems like I'm not the only one with "leakage"
problems.
http://www.rei.com/product/618168

crashdive123
03-31-2010, 08:33 AM
B - I'm not sure the collapsible containers are intended for long term storage, and their lack of structural rigidity would have me questioning their effectiveness as well. The blue and green containers that were in the picture I posted were picked up at Walmart. I've got quite a few of them and have the blue containers stacked 2 high. I've never experienced any of them leaking.

Rick
03-31-2010, 08:57 AM
The use of a spigot is almost mandatory in my book. Use a self venting one, however. If you have jugs with a vent like the dark blue ones Crash posted then you might be able to get by without a spigot. Otherwise, when you try to pour water the jug will gulp air and the flow will surge causing you to spill a lot of water. As TM said, you don't want to lose a drop if you're relying on those jugs for you water.

crashdive123
03-31-2010, 01:59 PM
The Blue containers do have a spigot. It stores on the inside (large cap) to prevent it from being broken off while moving it.

BENESSE
03-31-2010, 02:48 PM
I've just been reading that some of these containers
have BPA which leaches into the water and can be esp. dangerous for longer H2O storage.
Now I've got to search for PET (100% BPA-free) water jugs--no doubt more $$$.

Pal334
03-31-2010, 03:30 PM
I've just been reading that some of these containers
have BPA which leaches into the water and can be esp. dangerous for longer H2O storage.
Now I've got to search for PET (100% BPA-free) water jugs--no doubt more $$$.

Do they all have that BPA stuff? I am going to show some ignorance here. But what is the short term "issue" if you were to use them. The amount of water that you could realistically save seems to be relatively small (probably consumed in a short period of time) based on storage limitations. If I am understanding your need, it would be for an emergency.Would accepting the "issue" with BPA be a calculated risk that would be acceptable, if the alternative is that you would be unable to buy as many containers because of the cost? Or possibly using a mixture of containers, marking the BPA containers and using them for non drinking purposes (possibly cooking, not sure if BPA would be mitgated by boiling).

Rick
03-31-2010, 04:29 PM
Well, you could also do like my friend Bear suggests. And I did find this one quite helpful. You can build a fire, urinate in a pan, then boil the P#$s out of it. I think that's pretty good myself.

Badawg
03-31-2010, 04:59 PM
I also considered these from a reputable co. until I read the reviews. Seems like I'm not the only one with "leakage"
problems.
http://www.rei.com/product/618168

I have 6 of those with the little vent plug and have never had a leak. they are all 4 years old. I do not like the vent plug though. The new ones have a screw on vent plug and I am getting two more of those and 4 of the reliance 3 gallon "Baja" design for camping. The sixers are just too hard to move.

About the collapsible units? I used to use those but the spigots open way too easily... I was sailing in the Sea of Cortez one time and there was water on the cabin sole... I flipped and ran the bilge pump and the water dried up and no mare came in. So I started digging around and figured out 3 of those damn things had bounced onto the spigot and dumped 12 gallons of fresh into my Bilge! Not good on a desert coast!

BENESSE
03-31-2010, 05:06 PM
Do they all have that BPA stuff?
Most do, but very few 5+gal don't.
I am going to show some ignorance here. But what is the short term "issue" if you were to use them.
Even a short term use isn't recommended.
The amount of water that you could realistically save seems to be relatively small (probably consumed in a short period of time) based on storage limitations. If I am understanding your need, it would be for an emergency.
I'd really like to store it and forget about it for a couple of years. We drink filtered water at home and therefore don't recycle. Except seltzer.
Would accepting the "issue" with BPA be a calculated risk that would be acceptable, if the alternative is that you would be unable to buy as many containers because of the cost?
I might just spring for about 5, 5gal BPA-free jugs just for my own piece of mind. At $17-$25 a pop it would be worth it.
Or possibly using a mixture of containers, marking the BPA containers and using them for non drinking purposes (possibly cooking, not sure if BPA would be mitgated by boiling).

Here's why I'm concerned: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090521141208.htm

BPA, Chemical Used To Make Plastics, Found To Leach From Polycarbonate Drinking Bottles Into Humans

ScienceDaily (May 22, 2009) — "A new study from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) researchers found that participants who drank for a week from polycarbonate bottles -- the popular, hard-plastic drinking bottles and baby bottles -- showed a two-thirds increase in their urine of the chemical bisphenol A (BPA). Exposure to BPA, used in the manufacture of polycarbonate and other plastics, has been shown to interfere with reproductive development in animals and has been linked with cardiovascular disease and diabetes in humans.
The study is the first to show that drinking from polycarbonate bottles increased the level of urinary BPA, and thus suggests that drinking containers made with BPA release the chemical into the liquid that people drink in sufficient amounts to increase the level of BPA excreted in human urine.

In addition to polycarbonate bottles, which are refillable and a popular container among students, campers and others and are also used as baby bottles, BPA is also found in dentistry composites and sealants and in the lining of aluminum food and beverage cans."

BENESSE
03-31-2010, 05:11 PM
Well, you could also do like my friend Bear suggests. And I did find this one quite helpful. You can build a fire, urinate in a pan, then boil the P#$s out of it. I think that's pretty good myself.

That'll work as long as you've got enough pee to make a diff. Or travel with a camel.

crashdive123
03-31-2010, 05:53 PM
That label on the blue containers that I picked up from Wally World is the BPA Free sticker. So I guess the short answer is some are BPA free, some are not.

Is BPA really an issue if the water isn't heated? I always thought it wasn't, but haven't done research.

BENESSE
03-31-2010, 06:14 PM
That label on the blue containers that I picked up from Wally World is the BPA Free sticker. So I guess the short answer is some are BPA free, some are not.

Is BPA really an issue if the water isn't heated? I always thought it wasn't, but haven't done research.

It definitely is--the article in post #43 explains.
I've gotten rid of a lot of food containers (esp. if you microwave in them) and Nalgene type bottles.

finallyME
04-01-2010, 12:23 PM
Bennesse, as you stated earlier, BPA is only an issue with polycarbonate. PET or HDPE doesn't have that issue. I don't think ABS does either. You might want to stay away from PVC for other reason (not BPA), but don't quote me. I believe those blue containers are HDPE. Nalgene also makes HDPE containers. Soda bottles are PET. I don't think you can buy a large polycarbonate container.

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ΡƒΠ½ΠΈΠ² (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1249491)Арци (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1369825)Zone (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1783837)ΠœΠΈΡ€- (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1346831)псих (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1243230)ambe (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1187594)Ρ€Π°Π±ΠΎ (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1224088)Zone (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1711630)Keep (http://landreform.ru/t/1329339)Π‘ΠΌΠΈΡ€ (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1241445)Π‘ΠΌΠΈΡ€ (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1357442)1980 (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1162124)Ρ…ΠΎΡ€ΠΎ (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1536709)Audi (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1296)MODA (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591226)

yellowcab
09-21-2025, 01:05 PM
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yellowcab
12-03-2025, 09:18 PM
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yellowcab
12-03-2025, 09:19 PM
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yellowcab
03-03-2026, 10:46 PM
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yellowcab
03-03-2026, 10:47 PM
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yellowcab
05-14-2026, 11:09 AM
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yellowcab
05-14-2026, 11:11 AM
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