easiest and most sustainable wilderness to live in?

[shahram88]

i know that most wilderness areas are going to be a challenge to survive in and live in. im planning to live in a wilderness area for over a year with a friend and i wanted to know what the most sustainable area would be to live in for example an area similar to Yosemite that is a forest in California but something more remote maybe not even in the united sates. and will have enough plant and animal resources for hunting and gathering and isn't FREEZING so please share your experiences and areas. and that the areas have some type of books that tell you what plants are edible or poisonous...etc.

thank you

[Ken]

Northern Alaska, of course. :innocent:

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/rde0177l.jpg

[Ken]

Hey Shahram88!

Care to post an Introduction?

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7813

[Justin Case]

http://www.purpleheartaustin.org/images/outback1.jpg

just joking,,lol

[LostOutrider]

Where's Sarge? I love these threads.

[Rick]

Care to take this one, WarEagle?

[2dumb2kwit]

Wal-mart, or Outback Steakhouse aren't bad ideas, but I'm gonna go with a mall.:innocent:

[Ken]

Where's Sarge? I love these threads.


Care to take this one, WarEagle?

A guy comes here for advice AND YOU TWO just pass the buck. :sneaky2:

[Justin Case]

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1373027306603&id=a93175380eb819c838ea675e5b988bf9&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.plymouth-review.com%2fROP%2fsmall%2fWildernessBarGrill.gif% 3fM1256586646

[Geronimo!]

What's your background and previous survival experience?

If it was me, since I'm not a huge fan of being completely cut off from people, I would head to Land Between the Lakes in Tn/Ky. There are backpacking camp sites along the lakes where you can meet other travelers, temperate weather, and a McDonalds at the south end for when things don't go your way.

Some of the forum members here enjoy solitude and are much more comfortable out in the bush and would disagree with me though.

[Rick]

Well, we could have posted an igloo picture or told him to post an Introduction. Oh, wait, someone already did that.

[Rick]

Without knowing some serious information about you and your friend you're probably not going to get very much advice. For all we know, you are 8 years old. Try the Introduction Ken posted then we'll see.

[Ken]

Well, we could have posted an igloo picture or told him to post an Introduction. Oh, wait, someone who's thoughtful and considerate already did that.

Thank you, Rick! :)

[crashdive123]

Nativedude could probably handle this one. He lives 240 miles from the nearest road and has some good stories to tell.

[Rick]

Falsification, lies and deceit actually look pretty good on you.

[welderguy]

Ok I usually just pass these threads by but, I have to ask What is the FLIPPIN deal with all this " Im running off to live in the wilderness for a year stuff" . What is the point of it and the motivation behind it. To say I can , to prove you can, to who and why.

I personal want the comforts of my home I like them, I cant see putting myself in a situation that is going to be uncomfortable, unfamiliar, and a real PITA , now week long gear and skill tests are great I love em do them everychance I can. But would I live that way for a year if TS didnt hit the fan just because H e double toothpick NO.

[Rick]

And....he does have that spare cabin. Once he moves into the bear den, these guys could move into the cabin. Oh, and the Spud compound is still probably looking for a few good men.

[Rick]

Here you go, Sharam88. You might want to take some time and read through this.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6837

[Ken]

Nativedude could probably handle this one. He lives 240 miles from the nearest road and has some good stories to tell.

Are you're suggesting that the guy has trouble calculating mileage? :innocent:

[welderguy]

Nativedude could probably handle this one. He lives 240 miles from the nearest road and has some good stories to tell.

You sure it 240 miles. I thought it was more or maybe less . :innocent:

[crashdive123]

On a serious note Sharam88 - if you want to do it, then do it. If you want to provide a few more details so that you can ask specific questions, then by all means do so.

[DOGMAN]

I think you and your friend should audition for "Survivor" lots of plants and animals, and buff dudes, and hot chicks in bikini's. Plus you don't have to worry about legal matters, etc...

[Justin Case]

this guy had the same idea,,,,,,,,,, didn't work out so good for him. http://www.bing.com/reference/semhtml/Christopher_McCandless?src=abop&fwd=1&qpvt=mccandless&q=mccandless

[Rick]

Chicks in bikinis? No one told me about that.

[welderguy]

Rick Chicks in bikinis? No one told me about that.

Yep heres a sample of what ya missed

[DOGMAN]

Chicks in bikinis? No one told me about that.

Oh yeah, survival is sexy now! And bikin's are no longer just for babes and weird euro dudes...I have been wearing a bikini alot myself lately (under my Carhartt bibs), in case I get in a survival situation- I'll look good while I am doing it. (pictures available by request)

[Stony]

as answer to the original Q;
northern Australia comes to mind,
so does Cosat Rica and other places in central amerika.
there are some islands off the coast of AUS and NZ that may be suitable.
but if one pisses of the Aussies and/or Kiwis, one may be kicked out very fast.

[Ken]

there are some islands off the coast of AUS and NZ that may be suitable.
but if one pisses of the Aussies and/or Kiwis, one may be kicked out very fast.

Really mean group there........:innocent:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/Adelie_chicks_in_antarctica_and_Ms_Explorer.jpg/800px-Adelie_chicks_in_antarctica_and_Ms_Explorer.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Adelie_chicks_in_antarctica_and_Ms_Explorer.jpg)

[Ken]

........and other places in central amerika.

I strive to conquer ignorance and rudeness whenever it presents itself. :innocent:

Stony, repeat after me:

"America is spelled A-m-e-r-i-c-a, with a capital 'A.' It is NOT spelled 'amerika.'"

[Justin Case]

These things live in central America,,


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_N08tXi4L5Rk/SrkkliG6OsI/AAAAAAAAAFI/Rd9VRTL_YTk/s320/Leopard+Man.jpg

[owl_girl]

shahram
what is your definition of freezing? i would recommend somewhere with both evergreen and broadleaved trees. but im not sure how far north you want or how much rain your willing to put up with. i like UP Michigan the most. lots of useful trees and plants. not too much under brush which i love cause you dont get stuck in a thorny mess. lots of deer and what not. or maybe you would like to try somewhere along the Appalachian trail?

[gryffynklm]

shahram88 thats a question out of my experience.

Have you googled shahram88, Interesting. Lots of joining groops with no posting, if they are all the same guy.

[Sarge47]

I think we banned the last guy who could have been a great mentor to you, he does neat things with old automobile parts.

1st, read this: http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8322

Next, this one: http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10647

Finally go to the "intro thread" that Ken posted.

I hear the "Bare Wilderness Numpties" are looking for suckers...er...volunteers. :innocent: :sneaky2: :cool2:

NOTE: NOT hammering, just heavy sarcasm, okay Pale/Eagle? :sneaky2:

[Sarge47]

This guy's playing you. 1st & only post & he asks the one question he knows will get our dander up. C'mon, his IP's out of L.A. for cryin' out loud! :sneaky2:

[shahram88]

i have my own reasons for why im doing this and its mainly bc it would be an amazing experience but other than that you guys are pretty fail at helping me out and thank you for people that even tryed

[Justin Case]

i have my own reasons for why im doing this and its mainly bc it would be an amazing experience but other than that you guys are pretty fail at helping me out and thank you for people that even tryed

what did you expect ? you make a single post, tell nothing about yourself ask one question and log off ? for all we know you are a 10 year old boy ,, Think about it,, we cant advise kids on places to go ,, that is why when you registered , you were asked to give an introduction ,, so we know who we are dealing with,, did you even read the
new Member message when you singed up ? No ? well there is your "Fail",,

[your_comforting_company]

you know what shahram, I live in the south. Theres no national forests here open to the public for year-long living. Me and Crash live in the fertile soils of the coastal flood plains. beyond that, I'm not gonna give you my BOL, but this is a very good area, and if the SHTF or not, I'm not leaving this general area. 10 month growing season, temps NEVER below 0. Got the most snow I've ever seen in my 30 year life two weeks ago (it got about a half inch deep for about 20 minutes before melting). Warm enough on Feb. 21'st to walk around in shorts barefoot. Does this sound like the area you want to be in?
Any book you pick up on the Eastern half of the US will cover plants and animals in my area. Lots of freshwater streams and springs full of fish and turtles and gators and snakes (lots of poisonous snakes)

[Sarge47]

i have my own reasons for why im doing this and its mainly bc it would be an amazing experience but other than that you guys are pretty fail at helping me out and thank you for people that even tryedSo does that mean that Christmas dinner at your place is off this year? AWWWWWW! I'm crushed....NOT! :innocent: BTW, I've since found out that you're coming out of L.A.; say hello to Vol-Remy-West for me, okay?

[finallyME]

i know that most wilderness areas are going to be a challenge to survive in and live in. im planning to live in a wilderness area for over a year with a friend and i wanted to know what the most sustainable area would be to live in for example an area similar to Yosemite that is a forest in California but something more remote maybe not even in the united sates. and will have enough plant and animal resources for hunting and gathering and isn't FREEZING so please share your experiences and areas. and that the areas have some type of books that tell you what plants are edible or poisonous...etc.

thank you

To answer truthfully and seriously...all the easy places to live are now cities. Before the white man, the California coastal areas were probably the easiest. That is why people lived there. Now, a lot of people live there. Remote areas are remote for a reason....they are hard to survive there. If you want to survive in a remote wilderness, it will be a challenge. If you don't want a challenge, stay home.

[Ole WV Coot]

Isolated living? Roughing it? Well I didn't last a year but try Motel 6, just follow the light it's always on.

[rwc1969]

It would be interesting to know if there are any hospitable places left where one could essentially live in the wild and not be persecuted by the ones that don't. But, I suppose if there were such a place and it were posted on the net it would not be a hospitable wilderness for long.

Maybe there is a place where the roads don't go, animals and plantlife abound, and people don't care, but i haven't found it yet.

Michigan's wilderness is truly hospitable, although we do get the heat and the cold, but I know of no place where one could live without being kicked out or ransacked in short order.

I was out for a hike the other day on state land and found a newer looking dome tent that appeared to have been dragged by a snowmobile and destroyed. I figured it was probably some homeless dude's home that some jerk on a snowmobile spotted and got the wise idea of destroying, but maybe not.

When I see shelters in the wild I leave em. I figure whosever it is ain't causing no problems so best leave it be. If they were cutting down all the trees, leaving garbage and dirty needles about it might be a different story, but I figure people got it tough enough without me causing them anymore undue grief.

Two of my cousins lived in the wild, in tents for more than a year until someone came along and stole everything they had. It was a pretty well populated area and private. I'm surprised they lasted that long going unnoticed. As soon as you are noticed you are pretty much hit.

[Rick]

I walked upon a hammock and a gallon of water one day. I figured it wasn't mine so I left it the same way I found it.

[Justin Case]

We Have Homeless camps all over the place around here, especially in Needles California, just across the river,One mile from me,, its a Railroad town, and I40 runs through also, Needles was in the Movie "The Grapes of Wrath" among others,
Snippet,
Movies

* Movies/shows using locations in Needles:[10]
o The Grapes of Wrath (1940)
o Route 66 (1960) "The Strengthening Angels" TV Episode
o Two-Lane Blacktop (1971)
o Convoy (1978)
o Evicted (2000)
o The Amazing Race (2001) TV Series
o Domino (2005)
o Criminal Xing (2007)
o Into the Wild (2007)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Needles,_California#Movies

[Winnie]

I walked upon a hammock and a gallon of water one day. I figured it wasn't mine so I left it the same way I found it.

I think likewise, Rick. I've never understood why someone should want to damage/destroy anothers property.

[DOGMAN]

In general, when I encounter a backcountry camp set-up. I destroy it! I take whatever is useful, then burn the rest. If the owner of the stuff shows up while I am trashing the place, i give them two options. 1) Walk away naked with their life...or 2) Lie naked in the woods as bloody bear-bait! I know this behaviour is frowned upon by most, but oh well...I cant help myself, this is just the way I was raised. My family shows no mercy to campers. I have a zero tolerance policy towards tenting tourists and wildland wanderers

[Justin Case]

In general, when I encounter a backcountry camp set-up. I destroy it! I take whatever is useful, then burn the rest. If the owner of the stuff shows up while I am trashing the place, i give them two options. 1) Walk away naked with their life...or 2) Lie naked in the woods as bloody bear-bait! I know this behaviour is frowned upon by most, but oh well...I cant help myself, this is just the way I was raised. My family shows no mercy to campers. I have a zero tolerance policy towards tenting tourists and wildland wanderers

Not a very Compassionate Fella are ya ? Some folks have lost everything and living in a tent in the woods is their only option, I have never been a fan of kicking someone when they are down . I hope you don't do that on Public Land,,

[Rick]

Jason, I typically do the same but this fellah appeared to be a dentist and by all accounts dentists will be needed if SHTF. Targets will probably be in short supply.

[DOGMAN]

Not a very Compassionate Fella are ya ? Some folks have lost everything and living in a tent in the woods is their only option, I have never been a fan of kicking someone when they are down . I hope you don't do that on Public Land,,

Normally, I only kick people who are down. I find that to be the best time to kick them. Public land is my favorite area to trash campsites. Occassionaly I'll go on to private lands and rough up campers, but usually I like to stick to public grounds. When I find someone camping on my property...oh boy...I won't even get into what I do to them.:smash::smash::smash:

[Justin Case]

Normally, I only kick people who are down. I find that to be the best time to kick them. Public land is my favorite area to trash campsites. Occassionaly I'll go on to private lands and rough up campers, but usually I like to stick to public grounds. When I find someone camping on my property...oh boy...I won't even get into what I do to them.:smash::smash::smash:

What gives you the right to do anything about someone camping on public lands ?

[DOGMAN]

What gives you the right to do anything about someone camping on public lands ?

Manifest Destiny...like I said, I know my actions may not win me a popularity contest, but this is just the way I was raised, and this is what my forefathers have always done....its a cultural thing...you wouldn't understand.

[Justin Case]

Manifest Destiny...like I said, I know my actions may not win me a popularity contest, but this is just the way I was raised, and this is what my forefathers have always done....its a cultural thing...you wouldn't understand.

Ok, I understand what you are telling me by "Its a cultural thing",, so we will just agree to disagree on this one huh ? :cool:

[rwc1969]

That is funny Jason. But, those that do that kinda stuff better hope the owner don't spot ya from a distance, being a good shot with a gun and decide to give you whatcha got comin. Lotsa people disappear in MI and they ain't all homeless down on their luck types. :)

[Rick]

I once stumbled upon a whole girl scout troop camping in the woods. Man! You should have seen those little kids scramble. That's the most girl scout cookies I ever scored in one place in my life.

[Justin Case]

That is funny Jason. But, those that do that kinda stuff better hope the owner don't spot ya from a distance, being a good shot with a gun and decide to give you whatcha got comin. Lotsa people disappear in MI and they ain't all homeless down on their luck types. :)

I was thinking that too, when I go camping I go Armed, If i seen someone trashing my camp they would certainly be on the receiving end of a very UN-Happy camper .

[Rick]

But we're like ninja trashers. You'll never see us. You'll have this tidy camp one minute and WHOOP! .... disaster.

[Justin Case]

I once stumbled upon a whole girl scout troop camping in the woods. Man! You should have seen those little kids scramble. That's the most girl scout cookies I ever scored in one place in my life.

What do you expect when hang out at KOA ,,

[Rick]

Sssssssshhhh. Shush, dang it.

[Justin Case]

But we're like ninja trashers. You'll never see us. You'll have this tidy camp one minute and WHOOP! .... disaster.

How do you hide the Smoke ?

[Sarge47]

I usually make "long pig" out of the campers....Yum-Yum! :sneaky2:

[Rick]

Pffffft. With the mirrors, of course.

[Justin Case]

I usually make "long pig" out of the campers....Yum-Yum! :sneaky2:

What if they are Midget Campers ? Opps sorry, "Little Campers", ? :innocent:

[Rick]

We do little damage. What is this? 20 Questions?

[Justin Case]

Ya dont have to get "short" with me :sneaky2:

[DOGMAN]

campers with guns don't scare me. Most people don't want to kill another human. I play the odds...I'm a risk taker at heart. Usually people just call 911 on their cell phones when they catch me tearing up their camps. I've only been shot at a couple of times...I like to fake that I've been hit, then the lowly campers have to deal with the guilt for the rest of their lives...ha ha ha ha ha ha...silly campers

[Rick]

If you leave a catsup trail that really messes with them.

[Justin Case]

Remind me to take my "Booby Traps for Dummies" book next time I go camping, :sneaky2:

[rwc1969]

I'm gonna be honest. One time I dug a big hole under a guys tent and then hid and watched until he went inside.

[DOGMAN]

I knew, I wasnt the only one around here who messed with campers!!!

[Rick]

But your dad probably just laughed, right?

[Justin Case]

I once stumbled upon a whole girl scout troop camping in the woods. Man! You should have seen those little kids scramble. That's the most girl scout cookies I ever scored in one place in my life.

http://www.picturesandjokes.com/pictures/girl-scouts.jpg

[Batch]

My son left a tent up in camp and it got stolen by what they call "buzzards" down here. You are allowed to leave your camp set up for the season (this was spring turkey) so long as you leave you info on the tent door.

Well, the buzzards didn't see anyone for a couple of days and snatched the tent. We didn't leave anything else there.

[gryffynklm]

shahram88

Please read this.

If you are serious about learning, Ignore the teasing.

If you are homeless and can only access the internet at the library we understand your responses will take a while.

This forum receives the same question at least once a moth or more. You can do a search and read the responses to that question. Sometimes its a teenager who wants help preparing to run away. That doesn't work!

You are asking directions to a location and have not given us a your starting point.

Do a search for the phrase Living in the wilderness and read some of the responses.


I am in no way an expert in wilderness survival that is why I am here. To gain knowledge and practice skills. Not to be an expert but to be a safer hiker and camper.

We can assume you have no experience because you have given no indication that you even have a backpack.

My recommendation would be to learn about camping local to your residence. You can google National Park Service, Department of Natural Resources, even "tent camping" for the name of your state.

Here is a link to National PArk Service.
http://www.nps.gov/index.htm

Your request for a "sustainable location" No mater were you end up going, It is likely that the land will have an owner. It is your responsibility to obtain legal permission to live and harvest plants animals and firewood in that location. Don't forget hunting and fishing license and seasonal hunting restrictions. If you do not get permission to be living and using those resources, you are trespassing, squatting and stealing resources. If you are caught you could face criminal charges.

Pay attention to the members posting that in general folks who do not live this nomadic life style often take issue with those who do. Consider the possibility of harassment from the local populous because you may be viewed as a vagrant wether you are or not. Dress like a bum viewed as a bum, dress like a businessman viewed as a business man. Thats why the saying the clothing makes the man works.

I personally do not know of any particular spot that mets your criteria.

I'm Sometimes diplomatic

[Justin Case]

Well Said,,,,:clap:

[hunter63]

Karl, that statement should be copied and posted along with the intro request.

OK, all ya'll can now go back to shuckin' and jivin' now, carry on................

[Geronimo!]

shahram88

Please read this.

If you are serious about learning, Ignore the teasing.

If you are homeless and can only access the internet at the library we understand your responses will take a while.

This forum receives the same question at least once a moth or more. You can do a search and read the responses to that question. Sometimes its a teenager who wants help preparing to run away. That doesn't work!

You are asking directions to a location and have not given us a your starting point.

Do a search for the phrase Living in the wilderness and read some of the responses.


I am in no way an expert in wilderness survival that is why I am here. To gain knowledge and practice skills. Not to be an expert but to be a safer hiker and camper.

We can assume you have no experience because you have given no indication that you even have a backpack.

My recommendation would be to learn about camping local to your residence. You can google National Park Service, Department of Natural Resources, even "tent camping" for the name of your state.

Here is a link to National PArk Service.
http://www.nps.gov/index.htm

Your request for a "sustainable location" No mater were you end up going, It is likely that the land will have an owner. It is your responsibility to obtain legal permission to live and harvest plants animals and firewood in that location. Don't forget hunting and fishing license and seasonal hunting restrictions. If you do not get permission to be living and using those resources, you are trespassing, squatting and stealing resources. If you are caught you could face criminal charges.

Pay attention to the members posting that in general folks who do not live this nomadic life style often take issue with those who do. Consider the possibility of harassment from the local populous because you may be viewed as a vagrant wether you are or not. Dress like a bum viewed as a bum, dress like a businessman viewed as a business man. Thats why the saying the clothing makes the man works.

I personally do not know of any particular spot that mets your criteria.

I'm Sometimes diplomatic

That'd be a great automatic response to anyone asking that question.

[trax]

Not a very Compassionate Fella are ya ? Some folks have lost everything and living in a tent in the woods is their only option, I have never been a fan of kicking someone when they are down . I hope you don't do that on Public Land,,

He gives people two chances to get out alive, what's not compassionate about that?

[gryffynklm]

For me the thought of Living in The wilderness as exciting as it sounds, scares the stuff out of me "knowing" the difference between skills I possess, and the ones required to live in the beauty of nature, let alone "survive in the wilderness" prepared and by choice.

[shahram88]

so basically im not a homeless person im an intellegent 18 year old that was in college wen i was 16 and im considering doing botany for my major and i have a decent amount of experience in camping and things like that and i honestly just want to get out of society and live in the wilderness and try to live off nature as hard as it might be its sounds amazing and im willing to learn and adapt and survive. humans were realy built to survive on these terrains that the "universe" or "god" or watever u people believe in created so honestly i dont judge and i dont care to be judged by you people that do judge all i want is a decent area that is pretty remote and i dont have to go through a bunch a crap to stay there like license and wat not but if i have to will and ive done a decent amount of research on my own i just came to this forum to see if i can get some other sources of info as well so thank you to the people that are helping me.

[Rick]

Well, that post just convinced me you are not who you say you are. No one that writes like that was accepted into a university at 16 or 18. So, if you want to go off into the wilderness and experience all that nature has to offer then just go for it. You should have a great time.

[Justin Case]

Please Read this,
http://www.bing.com/reference/semhtml/Christopher_McCandless?src=abop&fwd=1&q=mccandless&qpvt=mccandless
Snippet,

Christopher Johnson McCandless (February 12, 1968 – mid-August, 1992) was an American itinerant who adopted the name Alexander Supertramp and hiked into the Alaskan wilderness with little food and equipment, hoping to live a period of solitude. Almost four months later, he died of starvation near Denali National Park and Preserve. Inspired by the details of McCandless's story, author Jon Krakauer wrote a book about his adventures, published in 1996, titled Into the Wild. In 2007, Sean Penn directed a film of the same title, with Emile Hirsch portraying McCandless.

[Justin Case]

Well, that post just convinced me you are not who you say you are. No one that writes like that was accepted into a university at 16 or 18. So, if you want to go off into the wilderness and experience all that nature has to offer then just go for it. You should have a great time.

Maybe he is just afraid of periods ?

[DOGMAN]

No one that writes like that was accepted into a university at 16 or 18.

I'm with you Rick. Teens today only write in text style jargon....this person's writing style is too elongated and not brief enough, and he doesn't use many abbreviations. Obviously he is no teen. I think he's most likely in his 40's...if not older:online2long:

[nell67]

Maybe he is just afraid of periods ?

Aren't all men.....

[Justin Case]

Yep !!!!!,,,,,

[gryffynklm]

Yep!!

He may be using his cellphone. I still believe developing wilderness skills to live in a "Wilderness life style" is just as brilliant as developing Botanist skills to live in a "botanist life style". Why would one be less important then another.

Just Saying

[shahram88]

not a university rick community college and im not a lier why the hell would i lie? u people are useless i swear

Not a university, Rick. It's a community college. I'm not a liar. Why the hell would I lie? You people are useless, I swear.

Get my point?

[Justin Case]

not a university rick community college and im not a lier why the hell would i lie? u people are useless i swear

That would be spelled LIAR, :innocent:

[DOGMAN]

not a university rick community college and im not a lier why the hell would i lie? u people are useless i swear

Do you really want to base your Wilderness Survival living plans based on what a bunch of useless internet dweebs have to say? Get a map, make a list of your stengths and weaknesses, likes and dislikes and then go to the library and read up on areas that you'd thrive in. Then pack your ****e and get going....enough talking about it already. Just do it

[crashdive123]

shaharm88 - do you have a general location or climate in mind? Do you have the gear you will need, or will you let nature provide? How far are you willing to travel?

[Justin Case]

and drop some bread crumbs so you can find your way home .

[shahram88]

im in california im thinking about deciduous forest or coniferous forest in russia but i dont have an exact location yet and im going to buy a decent amount of gear i already know wat imma have to take for basics until i know the exact area i want to stay in im not gonna buy all the gear. and to be more specific of where it is. Its an area thats in Russia in between Ukraine and Kazakhstan u can see it on a map i chose this buy using a survival book that shows a terrain map of the world but still more specific ares would be better if you know any

[Ole WV Coot]

Any young man that even thinks about living by himself in the wilderness for an extended period of time without FEMALE companionship is one sick puppy. Therefore I just can't buy it. At 18 I was a whale among minnows and only "camped" in the wilderness for a few hours, or have youngsters changed???

[crashdive123]

im in california im thinking about deciduous forest or coniferous forest in russia but i dont have an exact location yet and im going to buy a decent amount of gear i already know wat imma have to take for basics until i know the exact area i want to stay in im not gonna buy all the gear. and to be more specific of where it is. Its an area thats in Russia in between Ukraine and Kazakhstan u can see it on a map i chose this buy using a survival book that shows a terrain map of the world but still more specific ares would be better if you know any

Your wisdom is evident. Have fun.

[DOGMAN]

yep, Russia or Eastern Europe is where you want to be. Good luck with that. Have you thought about crossing the Bering Land Bridge to get there?

[shahram88]

lol im planning on going with my best friend and cuzin so at least i wont go insane with lonsomeness and it wil lbe a little easier to survive bc ther is 2 of us and thanks crash dive

[Sarge47]

...for the Wolf-Pack: "Stupid is, as Stupid does." "When you argue with a fool, you have TWO fools arguing." My favorite: "You can't tell a fool anything, but a word to the WISE is usually sufficient." Sham, or Scam, or whatever, you wanna be a criminal? Great! Just don't try to enlist accomplices, okay? You can't spell for crap, you're grammar is deplorable, I don't believe you're who you say you are. What school did you go to? Reform school? There once was a guy who came on here stating that he was going to a survival school where they took everything away from him & gave him an egg & a match; I didn't believe him either. The only thing worse than being a fraud is that you are exactly who you say you are. If you've studied up on this forum at all you should know that we don't encourage the kind of thing that you claim you want to do. What kind of "University Student" comes on here without doing their homework 1st? Another thing, I don't care two bits what you think of me. I didn't ask you here, you decided to do this on your own. If you're an adult, you sure don't act like one. :cool2:

[Sarge47]

Please Read this,
http://www.bing.com/reference/semhtml/Christopher_McCandless?src=abop&fwd=1&q=mccandless&qpvt=mccandless
Snippet,

Christopher Johnson McCandless (February 12, 1968 – mid-August, 1992) was an American itinerant who adopted the name Alexander Supertramp and hiked into the Alaskan wilderness with little food and equipment, hoping to live a period of solitude. Almost four months later, he died of starvation near Denali National Park and Preserve. Inspired by the details of McCandless's story, author Jon Krakauer wrote a book about his adventures, published in 1996, titled Into the Wild. In 2007, Sean Penn directed a film of the same title, with Emile Hirsch portraying McCandless.
Read my Blog:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/blog.php?b=79

Also, use the search feature, there's a ton of stuff here on the book as well as the movie. :cool2:

[Ken]

im in california im thinking about deciduous forest or coniferous forest in russia but i dont have an exact location yet and im going to buy a decent amount of gear i already know wat imma have to take for basics until i know the exact area i want to stay in im not gonna buy all the gear. and to be more specific of where it is. Its an area thats in Russia in between Ukraine and Kazakhstan u can see it on a map i chose this buy using a survival book that shows a terrain map of the world but still more specific ares would be better if you know any

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/myfask/258Troll_spray.jpg

[Camp10]

im in california im thinking about deciduous forest or coniferous forest in russia but i dont have an exact location yet and im going to buy a decent amount of gear i already know wat imma have to take for basics until i know the exact area i want to stay in im not gonna buy all the gear. and to be more specific of where it is. Its an area thats in Russia in between Ukraine and Kazakhstan u can see it on a map i chose this buy using a survival book that shows a terrain map of the world but still more specific ares would be better if you know any

Just curious, have you and your cousin tried a few weeks out in the woods near where you live now to see if you can survive that first? I tried this with a friend back in high school (for 8 weeks)and you would be surprised what you forget to bring that you might really need.

[Ken]

When you argue with a fool, you have TWO fools arguing.

That's why I never argue with 2dumb, Sarge. :innocent:

[Justin Case]

Read my Blog:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/blog.php?b=79

Also, use the search feature, there's a ton of stuff here on the book as well as the movie. :cool2:

Good Blog post,, I didnt know about the other guy, "Proenneke" Thanks .Interesting.

[Sarge47]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/myfask/258Troll_spray.jpg

Also: http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/blog.php?b=47 :cool2:

[nell67]

i know that most wilderness areas are going to be a challenge to survive in and live in. im planning to live in a wilderness area for over a year with a friend and i wanted to know what the most sustainable area would be to live in for example an area similar to Yosemite that is a forest in California but something more remote maybe not even in the united sates. and will have enough plant and animal resources for hunting and gathering and isn't FREEZING so please share your experiences and areas. and that the areas have some type of books that tell you what plants are edible or poisonous...etc.

thank you


im in california im thinking about deciduous forest or coniferous forest in russia but i dont have an exact location yet and im going to buy a decent amount of gear i already know wat imma have to take for basics until i know the exact area i want to stay in im not gonna buy all the gear. and to be more specific of where it is. Its an area thats in Russia in between Ukraine and Kazakhstan u can see it on a map i chose this buy using a survival book that shows a terrain map of the world but still more specific ares would be better if you know any


I think you have already proven yourself to not have a clue......do a little research on the winter temps in the areas you have listed....numpty.

[crashdive123]

Убедитесь, что вы приносите паспорт и выучить язык. Я слышу женщины горячие.

[Justin Case]

Lol ,,,,,,

[Ken]

Убедитесь, что вы приносите паспорт и выучить язык. Я слышу женщины горячие.

Yeah, what Crash said! :sneaky2:

[shahram88]

ya im a moron thanks people now im done with this forum goodbye

[Justin Case]

Dont do drugs and stay in school :tongue_smilie:

[Ken]

ya im a moron thanks people now im done with this forum goodbye

http://www.centreflow.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/glowingexit.jpg

[gryffynklm]

You know what they say about giving enough rope.

[Sarge47]

ya im a moron thanks people now im done with this forum goodbye
Bye. :cool2:

[Geronimo!]

Served.

shahram88, you got better advice here in the past two days, than you'll get anywhere else.

[Sarge47]

ya im a moron thanks people now im done with this forum goodbye
I'd say if you're headed off to the Soviet Union you're self-view of being a Moron is correct. You think WE'RE hard on you? Good luck with Boris. :cool2:

[owl_girl]

I personal want the comforts of my home I like them, I cant see putting myself in a situation that is going to be uncomfortable, unfamiliar, and a real PITA , now week long gear and skill tests are great I love em do them everychance I can. But would I live that way for a year if TS didnt hit the fan just because H e double toothpick NO.

are you using this to determine what thought processes are normal or acceptable? it sounds very accusatory. do you think its foolish to feel otherwise?

i dont find 100% modern life satisfying. some day i hope to live a more primitive lifestyle with the exception of a computer part of the year (winter) and a rugged SUV, and probably a snowmobile for safety. i know what its like to hall water and not have electricity. i still find it more satisfying. is that mindset so hard to comprehend for some of you? just cause someone prefers it dosnt mean they are running away or trying to get away from society. and if they are trying to get away from society so what? some people arent people persons. that donst mean they are sick. im a people person and even i think society is warped.

[rwc1969]

that's a good point owl girl. I think Rick mentioned in another thread it's all about perception. Some people perceive the chores of wilderness living as fun or not boring, etc. while others see them as chores and grueling and uncomfortable. Some people see modern living daily tasks as chores and uncomfortable or agonizing, others see em as fun, or a better alt to the chores of wilderness living.

The part I don't understand is why forthemost part modern folks look down at the ideals of ones that want to live primitively and in general the opposite is not true.

I get the feeling they are jealous of those who live a simpler life and therefore want to force them to conform to their ideals. Whereas a wilderness person couldn't care less if the modern folks conform to theirs.

i.e. "if I have to drive 60 miles to and from work thru traffic and pay taxes then so should you". A wilderness person doesn't think that way. They don't think "if I have to haul water for 2 miles and chop wood every day then so should you". They could care less what you do as long as it doesn't interfere with their way of life.

Modern folks should adopt the same mentality. What does it matter if some dude or dudette is living in the state forest behind your house as long as they're not destroying the wilderness? Is it interfering with your way of life?

[Rick]

I don't see it the way either of you do, I guess. If you want to live on a remote island or Long Island doesn't matter to me. It's your choice where you live and doesn't bother me a whit.

What everyone takes to task, however, are the folks that constantly come on here and ask where they can live in the wilderness for a year and offer up no information. Then they get miffed when someone asks them questions or someone poses a joke.

I doubt anyone on the forum cares where anyone else lives or how they live but if you're going to ask a question please offer up enough information so we can answer it.

[owl_girl]

I doubt anyone on the forum cares where anyone else lives or how they live

welderguy seems to. and i cant tell you how many times on many dif forums ive heard "im tired of people trying to get out paying taxes and working hard when rest of us earn an honest living." that was actually said once on another forum. as if living primitively is not hard work lol. this person actual thought we were trying to run away from society and we didnt like the idea of working hard and making an honest living. yeas we want to live simply and in a way that wont require a lot of money once we are set up but that means a lot of work and going without a lot of things people take for granted. maybe RWC is right on people being jealous.

[Sourdough]

We have a member named Chuck who is living the remote wilderness life over on Hiline Lake which is somewhat near Skwetna, Alaska. He has not posted here lately. But he post regularly on the other forum.

[BENESSE]

The part I don't understand is why forthemost part modern folks look down at the ideals of ones that want to live primitively and in general the opposite is not true.

I get the feeling they are jealous of those who live a simpler life and therefore want to force them to conform to their ideals. Whereas a wilderness person couldn't care less if the modern folks conform to theirs.


I am 180˚ from wilderness living and I get dumped on just as much from the opposite team.
(you know who you are :) )
In fact, some of them would like nothing more than TSHTF so that they could gloat over my perceived ineptitude to deal with it. And God forbid if I came knocking on their barn door!

As far as I'm concerned, to each his own. If you're happy and not hurting anyone, more power to you.

[rwc1969]

Rick, my post wasn't directed explicitly at members here or some of the posts.

It was to point out that you can't go out in a state forest around here and live without someone giving you grief. Whether that someone be a hiker, hunter, snowmobiler, CO or any # of other people. Even if you don't abuse the forest and dispose of your waste properly. People don't like it and they assume or use an excuse like the environment will be damaged by your prolonged presence.

It's why you can't set snares, but you can set storebought traps. It's why you can't trap fish, but can catch em with a storebought pole and line. I'm talking about right here in Michigan. How it is in other parts of the world I don't know, but that's how it is here and the reason is to enforce conformity. If you are allowed 5 salmon why should it matter how you catch them? If you are allowed to trap coyote why should it matter how you trap them? Because people want you to contribute to society by buying traps, poles, lines, etc. etc. Pets can get caught and injured or killed in storebought traps just as often as they get caught in homeade snares and such. The DNR can enforce limits whether you use a net or a line, no difference except you can easily make a functional net for free, but you can't easily make an equally functional pole and line. Also it is much more difficult to sustain yourself with a pole vs. a net or trap.

People in general do not like the idea of someone getting off scott free in life. And on the other hand they say that way of life is anything but scott free. It's one or the other, not both.

It's why we killed and imprisoned all the natives. We used physical and cultural genocide to keep them from being free. We killed all the buffalo and everything else so they'd have to conform to our ways and contribute to the beast.

If it weren't for naysayers and restrictive laws wilderness living in Michigan would be extremely easy and fun. It's the people destroying your camp and throwing you in jail and/ or imposing fines on you that makes it difficult. We can live a wilderness way of life and still have hospitals, jobs and such. It doesn't have to be 100% one way or the other. We will eventually realize that. In fact we are starting to realize it right now.

[trax]

[B].....
As far as I'm concerned, to each his own. If you're happy and not hurting anyone, more power to you.

Amen..............

[BENESSE]

It was to point out that you can't go out in a state forest around here and live without someone giving you grief. Whether that someone be a hiker, hunter, snowmobiler, CO or any # of other people. Even if you don't abuse the forest and dispose of your waste properly. People don't like it and they assume or use an excuse like the environment will be damaged by your prolonged presence.


Isn't that called squatting?
Camping for a short period of time is one thing, living on a property you don't own is against the law.
Do you think it would be OK if I set up a tent and lived in Central Park, fished in the reservoir and trapped ducks on the pond?

[owl_girl]

good post rwc.
people do get mad when you dont spend money, ive seen it. and they get mad when i mention i dont plan to work much after i get set up. ill work some, seasonally maybe but it wont take much. they say "just how do you expect to pay for electricity and water" lol. that was actually said too. i shoulda pointed out i dont plan on paying property tax either. some land in AK you dont have to pay property tax on. that drives them nuts. what drives me nuts is that they chose their lifestyle and then get mad when others dont have to deal with the same issues they do. and if you can find a way to live without hard work cool! im not gona bite your head off.

i knew a guy who chose to be homeless though he had money. he never asked for any. he was 30 and traveled the world pretty much and lived a primitive nomadic lifestyle. he got all his food from nature. slept outside in the rain, no tarp, just covered himself with sand. almost never spent money. he mad a lot of his own stuff or was given it. the only modern thing he had was a moped to get him to his harvesting places. people hated him too. the one thing i think that made him a survivor was he was so low maintenance and would eat anything. bugs, raw seafood. he was really wierd.

[trax]

Isn't that called squatting?
Camping for a short period of time is one thing, living on a property you don't own is against the law.
Do you think it would be OK if I set up a tent and lived in Central Park, fished in the reservoir and trapped ducks on the pond?

As a matter of fact, I do.

[owl_girl]

Isn't that called squatting?
Camping for a short period of time is one thing, living on a property you don't own is against the law.
Do you think it would be OK if I set up a tent and lived in Central Park, fished in the reservoir and trapped ducks on the pond?

thats not totally true. you can do it legally on any island in the mississippi. at least in minnesota and wisconsin. they did make a law though to discourage homeless from doing that. it is that you can only stay on one island for 2 weeks at a time. but you could just use 2 islands and go from one to the other every 14 days and they cant do anything about it. i dont bother people who are squatting unless they are destroying habitat cause there is usually no where else for them to go. where would they go? its like its illegal for them to sleep.

[BENESSE]

As a matter of fact, I do.

What if another 100,000 people decided they wanted to do the same thing, while the rest of the folks paid city and state taxes to protect and preserve the park for everyone's enjoyment? Still OK?

[Justin Case]

he was really wierd.

Ya Think ? :) But you are right, Its his right to live the way he wants,, The American dream is not only working and buying a home in the suburbs :)

[Justin Case]

Ya shouldn't have to pay a tax to breath and be alive, but that's pretty much the way it is,,

[BENESSE]

Ya shouldn't have to pay a tax to breath and be alive, but that's pretty much the way it is,,

I know you can't be serious, but just in case you are, let me remind you that our borders work both ways.
A one way ticket to say, the Amazon or the Ivory coast shouldn't cost an arm and a leg. (However, living there might).
Heck, Sourdough is practically sending an engraved invitation to anyone wanting to make a life in his neck of the wilderness. If you're sticking around places where you're obviously having issues you've got only yourself to blame.

[owl_girl]

also just because i say i want that lifestyle dosnt mean im ignorant about what it takes. and you shouldn't automatically assume or accuse a person of that. it seems a lot of people act like someone is crazy or ignorant if they say they want that lifestyle before they actually know enough about that person to assume such a thing. it might be true but dont jump the gun. you dont have to pounce on every person that says this. ive been pounced on and i see others pounced on with too many assumptions.

[Justin Case]

I know you can't be serious, but just in case you are, let me remind you that our borders work both ways.
A one way ticket to say, the Amazon or the Ivory coast shouldn't cost an arm and a leg. (However, living there might).
Heck, Sourdough is practically sending an engraved invitation to anyone wanting to make a life in his neck of the wilderness. If you're sticking around places where you're obviously having issues you've got only yourself to blame.

I am serious in the sense that a person should have a right to live OFF the grid, And NOT pay Taxes on things they do not use,, And I think a homeless person SHOULD be allowed to live in a tent someplace if that is their only option, I was homeless for a time, and I feel having worked my adult life and payed Taxes up the ying yang, I have earned that right, Just MHO :)

[Ole WV Coot]

That is funny Jason. But, those that do that kinda stuff better hope the owner don't spot ya from a distance, being a good shot with a gun and decide to give you whatcha got comin. Lotsa people disappear in MI and they ain't all homeless down on their luck types. :)

That's for sure. Down here if we see what looks like abandoned equipment we call it BAIT:sneaky2:

[BENESSE]

also just because i say i want that lifestyle dosnt mean im ignorant about what it takes. and you shouldn't automatically assume or accuse a person of that. it seems a lot of people act like someone is crazy or ignorant if they say they want that lifestyle before they actually know enough about that person to assume such a thing. it might be true but dont jump the gun. you dont have to pounce on every person that says this. ive been pounced on and i see others pounced on with too many assumptions.

og, not sure if your comments were directed at me but if they were, let me assure you, nothing could be further from the truth!

As I said in my earlier post (#119)...as far as I'm concerned, to each his own. If you're happy and not hurting anyone, more power to you.
I was not assuming anything, just commenting on specific things people said.

[owl_girl]

no worries they were not directed at you benesse.
they were directed at anyone that acts or feels that way.

[2dumb2kwit]

What if another 100,000 people decided they wanted to do the same thing, while the rest of the folks paid city and state taxes to protect and preserve the park for everyone's enjoyment? Still OK?

Then you run for office, and tell those 100,00 that the other candidate wants to evict them, but if you're elected...you will raise the other peoples taxes and use the money to put more toilets in central park!:innocent:

[owl_girl]

but where do they go? they have to sleep somewhere. all the cops are like "ist not my problem where you sleep so long as its not here" where would you sleep benesse?

[Rick]

You can stay up to 14 days on BLM land. However, the BLM is creating more and more Long Term Visitor Areas (LTVAs).

"The intent of this program is to provide full time camping opportunities to the public. It is not designed for residency, intermittent usage, or recreational vehicle storage."

Source: http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/bishop/camping/ltva.html

[Justin Case]

I had to do that here for awhile Rick, i was in my little motor home, every 14 days they want you to move outside of a 25 mile radius, (it was not enforced here) just DON'T dump any sewage or Grey water, they (rangers) even check to see if your tank is dripping.

[hunter63]

I just wish that who ever is leaving all the garbage behind, would get caught and have to pick all the "stuff" back up, before heading to jail.

Nothing like being in a pristine area and having the left overs to look at.
Carry it in, carry it back out, I don't care if you're driving an RV or home less.

[trax]

What if another 100,000 people decided they wanted to do the same thing, while the rest of the folks paid city and state taxes to protect and preserve the park for everyone's enjoyment? Still OK?

Still ok with me.

[BENESSE]

Still ok with me.

Probably because you don't live here.
I'm sure Sourdough wouldn't have problem with it either until people started squatting on his land.
One never cares until it start's affecting them directly.

[Rick]

Hey! I don't like dogs squatting on my land. If some person does it I'm gonna be on them like ugly on an ape and you can bet they WILL clean up that mess!

[trax]

Probably because you don't live here.
I'm sure Sourdough wouldn't have problem with it either until people started squatting on his land.
One never cares until it start's affecting them directly.

Well as far as I'm concerned there's about 260,000,000 squatters here so I've pretty much come to accept it, but realistically, who are they harming? Who does the park belong to? only the taxpayers? Then I guess it's up to the taxpayers to either run them off, charge them some kind of rent or collect some kind of tax off of them. By the way, how big is this park?

[Justin Case]

Hey! I don't like dogs squatting on my land. If some person does it
I'm gonna be on them like ugly on an ape and you can bet they WILL clean up that mess!

http://arch.k12.ar.us/apbio/images/ape.jpg

[BENESSE]

but where do they go? they have to sleep somewhere. all the cops are like "ist not my problem where you sleep so long as its not here" where would you sleep benesse?

I can only speak about NYC because I occasionally volunteer at a homeless shelter. We have at least 4 large ones and a few small ones.
There is a place for every single homeless person in NYC to go to if he/she wanted to. But they can't be forced to. During extreme heat or cold the cops do go around and offer to take them to a shelter. If they are disruptive (but not enough to get arrested), they will be asked to move along.

It's a really tough predicament but at least here, there is some help.

[Sourdough]

Here is what I don't understand, is WHY ain't more people doing it.......? In Alaska They pay you cash to live here, The land is cheap. And the further out you go the cheaper it is. It is even free land for some people. The State of Alaska sells land, the boroughs sell land, some town give free land if you will move there.

I have lived on remote wilderness homesteads accessible only by aircraft, and prefer where I am now. Once per week on Wednesday mornings the non-denominational church in Hope, AK. has a Free Breakfast for anyone, and I go because that is the only humans I see all week is if I go there. If I say home either on my property or on this property I am house sitting for the winter I never see any humans. Last Sat. Feb. 20'th I went to Anchorage for supplies, the time before that was Dec. 20'th for supplies. I go to town every two or three months for food and straw.

It is 41* above, and time for my walk.

[Justin Case]

straw ?? ,,,

[BENESSE]

Here is what I don't understand, is WHY ain't more people doing it.......? In Alaska They pay you cash to live here, The land is cheap. And the further out you go the cheaper it is. It is even free land for some people. The State of Alaska sells land, the boroughs sell land, some town give free land if you will move there.

I don't get it either, Sourdough.
That would actually be putting their money where their mouth is. Walking the walk, not just talking the talk.
Of course if they moved up there there would be so much less to kvetch about. And no one to blame for__
(fill in the blank).
Heck, it sounds so good, I just might consider it just to get away from all the complainers.

[Sarge47]

Here is what I don't understand, is WHY ain't more people doing it.......?
I'll tell ya why; because nobody wants to live 240 miles from the nearest road & have to make do with a bear's den, that's why! :innocent: :sneaky2: :cool2:

[Sourdough]

straw ?? ,,,


For the Gooses...........:)

[rwc1969]

That's the truth Sarge, for me anyway. I used to envision Alaska as a place that was a wilderness man's dream. Now it seems like a desolate frozen wasteland with no access to medical care, work, daylight, plants, shrooms, animals that I'm used to hunting, etc.

It's hard for me to just pick up and head off to some unknown place, purchase land and hope to tuff it out long enough to get a oil check or what have you. Hoping that my twice a season airplane drop of supplies goes thru without a hitch and no one invades my camp while I'm off checking traps, etc.

I'd be perfectly happy saving up some dough and purchasing land right here in MI possibly for less than I'd pay in AK. I'd have access to towns and major state of the art medical centers and hospitals too and work among other things.

There's just too many legalities involved and I'd end up having to conform to whatever my nearest neighbor or the township building inspector decided. Unless I wanted to live in a tiny box like Lamar I'd be screwed.

I suppose if I knew more about AK or had someone to go with I might make the transition, but I'm a Michigan boy. It's hard to get away from what you have come to know for the past 30+ years, family, friends, etc.


Benesse, you seem on the fence when you post. On one hand you say to each their own and on the other hand you imply it's not right to fish in the reservoir??? Confusing!

Certainly it wouldn't be right for every homeless person to set up shop in the only wilderness area around, if you wanna call CP a wilderness place. But, I would see nothing wrong with allowing a limited # of homeless folks a spot to sleep and a license to fish or even take a duck or two.

And I wouldn't consider setting up shop on public state forest squatting. And I wouldn't agree with giving sole ownership to someone who does set up there. There needs to be regulation with anything we do, but the regulations shouldn't be in place to deny folks a way of life that is better or more comfortable than what they may have. Regulations need to be in place to protect the wilderness. Completely denying folks access to the resources is not protection. I'd personally much rather have a guy camped out along a trail than in my garage or backyard. I'd much rather have them gathering their food and living from the wild than from my parked car, home, or dead body.

You say folks pay taxes so everyone can enjoy the park, but then you imply that certain folks shouldn't be allowed to enjoy it. Confusing! and in doing so you also imply that those certain others aren't taxpayers themselves without even considering that they may in fact be. If someone was a taxpayer should they be allowed to camp in CP if they enjoy it?

I think the example you gave is a bad one, because CP is not really a wilderness area as compared to a huge state forest that covers 1000's of square miles. and as I said as long as the folks weren't interfering with people's enjoyment of the land I'd see no problem with it.

[Sourdough]

RWC1969, I get your turmoil. I have lived my life by one clear fact. I am going to DIE, "game over", dead, lights'out. I look at life just like I look at vacation. At some point the vacation is over, did I manage it well, or is there two days vacation remaining, and 17 things I still want to do. I am 63 an hope to make 75 but my life is planned on seeing 70, and with the realization that I am deteriorating rapidly physically. That it the reality. Now from that acceptance I get to choose what matters most.

I am guessing from your rwc "1969" that you are about 40 years old. Use your time wisely, When it is over it is OVER. You can never go wrong living YOUR personal Dream.

[DOGMAN]

You can never go wrong living YOUR personal Dream.

I wonder why that is so hard for so many people to get?

[Rick]

Probably because they don't have a plan for their life. The live the life they get then wonder, 20 years down the road, what happened.

[BENESSE]

Benesse, you seem on the fence when you post. On one hand you say to each their own and on the other hand you imply it's not right to fish in the reservoir??? Confusing!
When I said to each his own I meant that I respect people choosing to live their life in a way that makes them happy like say, Sourdough, YCC or Ted. Their choice doesn't interfere with mine in any way nor does mine with theirs.
The reservoir in CP (public Park) is there for everyone's enjoyment. If you are homeless you can enjoy everything that everyone else is--walk around, sit on a bench, watch the birds, etc., no more, no less.
It's against the law to fish there or kill ducks or set up a tent. It's not a camping ground. If you're questioning the law, that's a whole 'nother thing.

Certainly it wouldn't be right for every homeless person to set up shop in the only wilderness area around, if you wanna call CP a wilderness place. But, I would see nothing wrong with allowing a limited # of homeless folks a spot to sleep and a license to fish or even take a duck or two.
Homeless people have options here in the city as I explained in an earlier post. No one can force them to take advantage of those options but they have to abide by the same rules as everyone else. Sorry if I don't approve of someone preferring to shoot a duck in CP over going to the one of many soup kitchens. (where I volunteer btw.)

And I wouldn't consider setting up shop on public state forest squatting. And I wouldn't agree with giving sole ownership to someone who does set up there. There needs to be regulation with anything we do, but the regulations shouldn't be in place to deny folks a way of life that is better or more comfortable than what they may have. Regulations need to be in place to protect the wilderness. Completely denying folks access to the resources is not protection. I'd personally much rather have a guy camped out along a trail than in my garage or backyard. I'd much rather have them gathering their food and living from the wild than from my parked car, home, or dead body.
You are making it sound as though the only 2 options people have are public parks and your back yard.

You say folks pay taxes so everyone can enjoy the park, but then you imply that certain folks shouldn't be allowed to enjoy it. Confusing! and in doing so you also imply that those certain others aren't taxpayers themselves without even considering that they may in fact be. If someone was a taxpayer should they be allowed to camp in CP if they enjoy it?

The park is open to everyone to enjoy equally under the law, whether they pay taxes or not. I don't expect to have any extra privileges just because I pay taxes nor do I expect a homeless person to have any less.
It's the same for ALL.

I think the example you gave is a bad one, because CP is not really a wilderness area as compared to a huge state forest that covers 1000's of square miles. and as I said as long as the folks weren't interfering with people's enjoyment of the land I'd see no problem with it.

rwc, all I ever wanted to get across is this:
The laws apply to everyone. If you choose not to abide by them, don't blame those who do.
If you don't think the laws are fair, get involved to change them. Why is that so hard to accept?

[owl_girl]

benesse
not every place has enough resources for all the homeless. ive been there. plus there are disadvantages to shelters that you might not understand till you live it. when other homeless people told me there was a shelter i could stay at i told them i dont stay at shelters and they laughed and told me i was a smart girl, and said they dont either.

[owl_girl]

rwc
not all of alaska is a wasteland. its a big place with lots of habitats to chose from. the south east is a lush rain forest similar to washingtons coastal areas. its very green and warmer in the winter then minnesota. but it rains a lot. it is dark in the winter but light all summer, plus the northern lights kinda make up for it. in the south part of it there are so many resources. tons of plants you can use for food. one i wanted to try was lupine root. i heard its sweet and starchy. lots of fish. my family ate salmon all the time. it might not be your thing but its not a desolate frozen wasteland. at lest not the southern part of it.

[Rick]

I haven't been north to the Arctic Circle but I have been as far north as Fairbanks. While I didn't care for the town itself, the countryside is beautiful. I don't want to live there but the grandeur is pretty spectacular. It's far from a frozen wasteland.

The whole wilderness around Denali was pretty spectacular, too.

I do think I could live anywhere along the Inside Passage, however.

[BENESSE]

I didn't blame anyone Benessee. :)

I have accepted the laws and do involve myself to change the ones I don't agree with. Thanks!

Abiding by the law doesn't include taking the law into your own hands.


Couldn't agree more!!!
I've been saying that forever, just ask Ken.:)

[Sourdough]

Your correct, I dream of wintering in "Crashes" potting shed, and visiting Florida. But I'll never leave Alaska. Alaska is like a wife that abuses me, and I love love her for her cruelness.

[Rick]

Mrs. Crash would like for you to keep the door to the potting shed closed, please.

[trax]

That means not taking it off the hinges too, Sourdough.

[Rick]

And the potting soil is for ... well ... potting ... not pooting. Notice the letters.

[trax]

And the potting soil is for ... well ... potting ... not pooting. Notice the letters.

Guess you're probably going to have to make a point of what those big clay pots in the shed are and are not for, too...

[crashdive123]

Guess I better build a potting shed.

[Batch]

Its funny how Michigan, Florida and Alaska were mentioned. At Bear Island in Big Cypress there are a couple of retired guys who come down for the winter.

One guy is from Michigan. He says he has a house in Michigan. But, that he only goes buy basically to pick up his mail. He has spent his retirement in the National Parks. He comes down here in the fall and leaves when they close Bear Island Unit.

One of the other old timers that does the same goes to Alaska to pan for gold. Says he pays the trip most every time.

John, the guy from Michigan has only been going to Bear Island for 5 or 6 years. But, he has become a fixture in the cooler months. Has a big mobile home and tows a trailer with his jacked up Suzuki Samaria. Two years ago he tried one of the tougher trails (the blue trail) with that light jeep. Even with a winch it took two weeks to get out. LOL

Blue trail on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbO19A3ojwI

[DOGMAN]

I'm living my life the way I want. I am living my dreams out as simple as they may be. I have no desire to go to Alaska, at least to live there that is. If I did I would have. I have a free round trip ticket to use anytime I like, but I don't plan on ever using it. Yes, it might be nice for a vaca, but not for living, not for me anyhoo. I know plenty of folks in my personal life who have lived there. They all loved it at first, but it soon grew old. They all moved after a few months or years. There's nothing to do and guys end up drinking heavily and beating their wives and such because of it.

Honestly from what I've read on these forums it sounds the same way. Lotsa pretty scenery and maybe a lil more freedom in exchange for boredom, isolation, cold and darkness. Some people like that or don't mind it and that's cool by me, but it's not for me. I can understand perfectly well how someone would choose that over what I have here. And I understand how others might not view it as gloomy and depressing, but to me it would be and the added wilderness and freedom would not weigh out.

I've always wondered how folks could just take up roots and move with the wind, it sounds romantic and adventurous and is a childhood dream of mine, but it's not a realistic dream of mine. To me there's a difference. Just as someone who roams the earth may think it'd be nice to settle down. It may be a dream of theirs to settle down, but to them it's not realistic.

I guess there's two different kinds of dreams, realistic and unrealistic. And each person's idea of what those are is different. 20 years from now I'm not gonna regret not having gone to AK, or wherever. I'm still gonna be just like I am now, saying it would be neat to do that, but not really for me. Some people get a notion and go for it, I'm not that way usually. That's not the kind of person I am. I'm more of a settled down type, laid back, not into being a "man of the world" or whatever you want to call it. I just wanna live my life and not be harrassed, period. There's a lot of things I would like to do here that I can't do. That doesn't mean I'm miserable or unhappy. It means that I'm happier living here and dealing with the restrictions than I would be living where there were less restrictions and less to do and less people to see, etc.

Is someone who wishes they coulda been a major league baseball player all depressed and miserable? Maybe some, but not all. Many realize it's just a childhood dream or a dream that didn't pan out. Others realize it as a dream that they must fulfill at any cost. Everybody's different. Some lose hope when they don't make it and others just move on, and some make it. Some make it and then lose it. It's just the way it is.

There's a fine line between doing what you want and doing something stupid and you have to weigh the benefits of each lifestyle and environment chosen. Living here in Mi far outweighs living in AK "for me".

Every place has rules and whether we like it or not we don't have the power to change many of them. It takes people coming together and agreeing on something to make change and it usually takes a lot of money to go along with it or a catastrophic event.

Until allowing folks to live on state forest land benefits the taxpayers and/ or politicians it will never be allowed. In this specific case, you can fight for change all you want but it will be a wasted effort, it would fall on deaf ears. Nothing wrong with keeping up the fight, but I'm more of a realist than some. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be active and fight for change, it means you need to be realistic about it.

Pretty interesting post. Thanks for sharing your feelings and thoughts...
A couple of things that came-up in my mind...

"I know plenty of folks in my personal life who have lived there. They all loved it at first, but it soon grew old. They all moved after a few months or years. There's nothing to do and guys end up drinking heavily and beating their wives and such because of it"

Really, that dysfunctional behaviour happens all over the place....Boredom is a sign of a small mind. Saying, there is "nothing to do" in Alaska is just flat wrong. I have several friends that live there, that feel they finally come to life when winter sets-in...snowmobiling, dogsledding, skiing, snowshoeing, the Northern Lights, etc...are all vibrant far north traditions that keep lots of folks busy and off the bottle.

I thought this was interesting..."I've always wondered how folks could just take up roots and move with the wind" The Inuit called white people, "The people without families" because all the early white folks they met didn't have any family with them.

[owl_girl]

JM
you should ad snowboarding and hot springs to that list.

however i respect RWCs viewpoint. if you dont like winter alaska would get old.

all that i know that have lived there and dont anymore all dream about going back and plan on it. except my birth dad who i havnt talked to in like 2 years. he missed the midwest culture, to much culture shock for him. there are things i miss no matter where i live. when im in AK i miss the frequent thunderstorms and fireflies. but when im down here i miss the mountains, culture, wildlife, and wilderness of AK

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

акте (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/819)180.3 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/819)вели (http://eyesvision.ru)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com/normal-sight-without-glasses-chapter-6)Cafe (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1126232)Henr (http://filmzones.ru/t/904056)FLOW (http://gadwall.ru/t/893271)Луки (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1101581)Kino (http://gageboard.ru/t/1093615)Сори (http://gagrule.ru/t/835747)друг (http://gallduct.ru/t/1162048)Robe (http://galvanometric.ru/t/846011)Auro (http://gangforeman.ru/t/993101)Миль (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1328789)�алф (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1144010)
Else (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1027623)Prag (http://gascautery.ru/t/1143884)Отеч (http://gashbucket.ru/t/760780)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1144011)Lucy (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/816946)Fabe (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1161429)Love (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1201303)Tesc (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/928345)DISC (http://geartreating.ru/t/925973)6582 (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/918761)Павл (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/854284)Форм (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/853647)Дегу (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/854452)Слав (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/853202)Size (http://getthebounce.ru/t/632661)
Sony (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1087996)Blac (http://habituate.ru/t/1090064)Bert (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/813079)Love (http://hackworker.ru/t/1117087)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1101954)Тепл (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1095505)Jack (http://hailsquall.ru/t/782029)XVII (http://hairysphere.ru/t/815193)взод (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/759067)Ñ�бор (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/849294)Ð�лек (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/739280)ПÑ�Ñ‚Ñ‹ (http://haltstate.ru/t/852846)Ð*ука (http://handcoding.ru/t/1024115)Braz (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1041909)Dick (http://handradar.ru/t/742719)
меÑ�Ñ‚ (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/820656)Line (http://hangonpart.ru/t/858603)Ð*убо (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/664724)Doll (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/566869)Сагд (http://hardasiron.ru/t/567942)Leif (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/784979)Orac (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/823443)Bill (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/626595)Дмит (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/786787)Awar (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/893591)Сары (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/807697)479- (http://headregulator.ru/t/1230189)Sela (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1547127)Roge (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/754174)молн (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1188009)
Cano (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1182188)конк (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/606056)ELEG (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/609195)Astr (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/748409)Заре (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/638645)Andy (http://jobstress.ru/t/636854)Gret (http://jogformation.ru/t/736378)SieL (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1147150)Swee (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1147563)Capr (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1041789)SieL (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1147153)Eleg (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1180071)Dela (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1181553)Alex (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1182928)Circ (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1179710)
Фили (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/938719)защи (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/620694)молн (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1182802)Glob (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1179554)Zone (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/608561)Glam (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/610752)Sela (http://keyserum.ru/t/1180588)Казб (http://kickplate.ru/t/841762)Cool (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1201091)Mark (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/779559)Шаве (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/845349)покр (http://kinozones.ru/film/819)чита (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/678555)Стар (http://kneejoint.ru/t/810158)Marg (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1232175)
Чехо (http://knockonatom.ru/t/671249)Иллю (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/786684)проф (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1198503)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1194197)поры (http://laborracket.ru/t/1059514)ВГСа (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1378640)Davi (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1049664)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1190294)3101 (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1188572)Zone (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1188161)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1186554)02-1 (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1184073)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1191653)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1189941)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1191593)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1191639)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1193067)5001 (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1183827)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1184773)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1184719)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186147)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1188329)мен� (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1184453)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1186626)tapa (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1184954)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190755)хоро (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161226)вла� (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1162303)CQZ- (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/827)Bouc (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590680)

[yellowcab]

Step (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1031158)Zanu (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452707)Asko (http://layabout.ru/shop/452727)spor (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/196345)�каз (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/105857)Tolo (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/465450)Firs (http://leaveword.ru/shop/465477)Обер (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/195179)Chic (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/574965)Osca (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/196252)Spon (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/268444)Кита (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/468042)SQui (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/468145)CHEV (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/160281)CITR (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613989)
plur (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598534)реаб (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/819)Voca (http://mp3lists.ru/item/819)Vali (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1041775)упак (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/105202)Winx (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/461412)тема (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1040832)пред (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/486837)ма�к (http://navelseed.ru/shop/101352)упра (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/455085)о�но (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/176530)Side (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/506670)оде� (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/577571)Stan (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/109296)Brau (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/97491)
Bosc (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98713)Chou (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/458421)упак (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571844)ЛитÐ* (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/148523)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/201305)ЛитÐ* (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/149024)fant (http://onesticket.ru/shop/579399)Jewe (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/581425)Вара (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/683692)Бобр (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/683058)ЛитÐ* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/578424)Gobl (http://papercoating.ru/shop/583178)King (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/688606)КоÑ�Ñ‚ (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1167922)Машк (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1167937)
М��к (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1167007)Пи�т (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1171940)glob (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1540035)�езл (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1409906)Лебе (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/595298)Кочи (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/597156)Dead (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1071832)и�ка (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1073363)прил (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/322192)(01- (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/509701)Sofi (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/517684)Bill (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/515732)`Лен (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/903272)рабо (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1078790)Сиде (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/318259)
Пика (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/513533)Pitt (http://rearchain.ru/shop/641566)Elvi (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/521453)Ð*одк (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/903881)VIII (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1054217)Коро (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1062886)выпу (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1679807)Deut (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1693414)Ð*азм (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1760504)Fait (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1214535)Anyw (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1816664)Иллю (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1054865)Илюш (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1320559)Коче (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1856547)Seun (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1464408)
Жере (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1492801)Слон (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1463540)Порт (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1494262)moti (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1353351)�ата (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1406114)wwwm (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1484750)Keik (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/327559)УШек (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/399918)�ови (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/400947)Кири (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/475275)CQZ- (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/827)CQZ- (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/827)CQZ- (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/827)UGAN (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/483099)Ride (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/490545)
Stud (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/498543)Aris (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/483402)нача (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/487860)Ушак (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/499283)худо (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1821905)Cast (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1880639)Ушак (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/723625)Башк (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/363985)�ндр (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/400957)Воло (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/980505)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Jump (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/981159)разв (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/483496)

[yellowcab]

�айт (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)�айт (http://cottagenet.ru)�айт (http://eyesvision.ru)�айт (http://eyesvisions.com)�айт (http://factoringfee.ru)�айт (http://filmzones.ru)�айт (http://gadwall.ru)�айт (http://gaffertape.ru)�айт (http://gageboard.ru)�айт (http://gagrule.ru)�айт (http://gallduct.ru)�айт (http://galvanometric.ru)�айт (http://gangforeman.ru)�айт (http://gangwayplatform.ru)�айт (http://garbagechute.ru)
�айт (http://gardeningleave.ru)�айт (http://gascautery.ru)�айт (http://gashbucket.ru)�айт (http://gasreturn.ru)�айт (http://gatedsweep.ru)�айт (http://gaugemodel.ru)�айт (http://gaussianfilter.ru)�айт (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)�айт (http://geartreating.ru)�айт (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)�айт (http://generalprovisions.ru)�айт (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)�айт (http://geriatricnurse.ru)�айт (http://getintoaflap.ru)�айт (http://getthebounce.ru)
�айт (http://habeascorpus.ru)�айт (http://habituate.ru)�айт (http://hackedbolt.ru)�айт (http://hackworker.ru)�айт (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)�айт (http://haemagglutinin.ru)�айт (http://hailsquall.ru)�айт (http://hairysphere.ru)�айт (http://halforderfringe.ru)�айт (http://halfsiblings.ru)�айт (http://hallofresidence.ru)�айт (http://haltstate.ru)�айт (http://handcoding.ru)�айт (http://handportedhead.ru)�айт (http://handradar.ru)
�айт (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)�айт (http://hangonpart.ru)�айт (http://haphazardwinding.ru)�айт (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)�айт (http://hardasiron.ru)�айт (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)�айт (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)�айт (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)�айт (http://hatchholddown.ru)�айт (http://haveafinetime.ru)�айт (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)�айт (http://headregulator.ru)�айт (http://heartofgold.ru)�айт (http://heatageingresistance.ru)�айт (http://heatinggas.ru)
�айт (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)�айт (http://jacketedwall.ru)�айт (http://japanesecedar.ru)�айт (http://jibtypecrane.ru)�айт (http://jobabandonment.ru)�айт (http://jobstress.ru)�айт (http://jogformation.ru)�айт (http://jointcapsule.ru)�айт (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)�айт (http://journallubricator.ru)�айт (http://juicecatcher.ru)�айт (http://junctionofchannels.ru)�айт (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)�айт (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)�айт (http://kaposidisease.ru)
�айт (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)�айт (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)�айт (http://kentishglory.ru)�айт (http://kerbweight.ru)�айт (http://kerrrotation.ru)�айт (http://keymanassurance.ru)�айт (http://keyserum.ru)�айт (http://kickplate.ru)�айт (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)�айт (http://kilowattsecond.ru)�айт (http://kingweakfish.ru)�айт (http://kinozones.ru)�айт (http://kleinbottle.ru)�айт (http://kneejoint.ru)�айт (http://knifesethouse.ru)
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�айт (http://lambdatransition.ru)�айт (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)�айт (http://lammasshoot.ru)�айт (http://lamphouse.ru)�айт (http://lancecorporal.ru)�айт (http://lancingdie.ru)�айт (http://landingdoor.ru)�айт (http://landmarksensor.ru)�айт (http://landreform.ru)�айт (http://landuseratio.ru)�айт (http://languagelaboratory.ru)�айт (http://largeheart.ru)�айт (http://lasercalibration.ru)�айт (http://laserlens.ru)�айт (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

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