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2dumb2kwit
01-19-2010, 12:14 PM
I think this story should answer some of the liberals questions, about why we feel like we need to be armed. Haiti can truly teach us a lot.


PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti – "If you don't kill the criminals, they will all come back," a Haitian police officer shouts over a loudspeaker in the country's most notorious slum, imploring citizens to take justice into their own hands.

The call for vigilantes comes as influential gang leaders who escaped from a heavily damaged prison during the country's killer earthquake are taking advantage of a void left by police and peacekeepers focused on disaster relief.


...much of the neighborhood's security will be in the hands of local populations, who are forming night brigades and machete-armed mobs to fight bandits across the capital.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_haiti_the_void

redwoodfox
01-19-2010, 01:26 PM
There was alot of the same kind of stuff that happened during Katrina. The problem with alot of Americians is they think it will never happen to them.

Old GI
01-19-2010, 01:34 PM
GUNS????? We don't need no stinkin' guns! The POHLEESE will protect me.:innocent:

rwc1969
01-19-2010, 03:58 PM
why did we ever relinquish the power and right to defend ourselves to them in the first place?

crashdive123
01-19-2010, 06:38 PM
why did we ever relinquish the power and right to defend ourselves to them in the first place?

Did you? I didn't.

hunter63
01-19-2010, 06:49 PM
Did you? I didn't.

Agree, I"m kinda in the "Pry my cold dead fingers off, wading thru large pile of spent brass" crowd.

rwc1969
01-19-2010, 11:28 PM
Did you? I didn't.

I think if I can't set traps on my property to catch thieves and trespassers ,then yes, my rights were relinquished long before I was born.

Here in Michigan you have the right to defend yourself, but you better be willing to spend a lot of money on attorney fees and such to defend that right.

Unless you have a very good understanding of self defense laws in Michigan, absolutely no criminal record, and get your story straight from the get go you stand a good chance of going to prison or being sued for exercising your right to defend.

I know what I would do in a situation, but I also know the possible consequences. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 I suppose.

Ted
01-19-2010, 11:45 PM
Your right RWC you would be guilty of murder till you paid out the a$$ to prove yourself innocent! Isn't that a crock o' s**t!

Rick
01-20-2010, 08:30 AM
I think if I can't set traps on my property to catch thieves and trespassers ,then yes, my rights were relinquished long before I was born.

Ooh. Sorry, I can't agree with that. The law is there to prevent innocent folks from being maimed or killed. What on earth would you do if a child tripped a booby trap? Far more likely to catch an innocent than a villain. Just my opinion.

Pal334
01-20-2010, 09:37 AM
Ooh. Sorry, I can't agree with that. The law is there to prevent innocent folks from being maimed or killed. What on earth would you do if a child tripped a booby trap? Far more likely to catch an innocent than a villain. Just my opinion.

I agree with Rick. The use of traps to protect property with the intent to hurt humans is absolutely wrong in "peacetime" conditions. First responders (ambulance etc), police and other innocents would be placed in danger. And I do not think that "right" ever existed anyways

Batch
01-20-2010, 12:15 PM
I can only recall cases where the burglar sued the property owners. I don't recall any criminal charges accept one case where they charged a guy for detonating an improvised device. He used airbags with shrapnel.

I personally wouldn't use one under normal circumstances.

Chris
01-20-2010, 12:48 PM
I think if I can't set traps on my property to catch thieves and trespassers ,then yes, my rights were relinquished long before I was born.

Here in Michigan you have the right to defend yourself, but you better be willing to spend a lot of money on attorney fees and such to defend that right.

Unless you have a very good understanding of self defense laws in Michigan, absolutely no criminal record, and get your story straight from the get go you stand a good chance of going to prison or being sued for exercising your right to defend.

I know what I would do in a situation, but I also know the possible consequences. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 I suppose.
Traps are a no-no.

But... who is to say you cannot plant say, poison ivy, around the vulnerable area. Such as under a window, along a fence, or whatnot. Assuming you do not have kids yourself who might find there way in there. It isn't your fault poison ivy is growing there, that is just nature.

BENESSE
01-20-2010, 12:57 PM
I think if I can't set traps on my property to catch thieves and trespassers ,then yes, my rights were relinquished long before I was born.


Whatever happened to fences and lockable gates?
I suppose it's not as macho as some other alternatives mentioned.

trax
01-20-2010, 01:29 PM
why did we ever relinquish the power and right to defend ourselves to them in the first place?

Yeah, I don't hand out speeding tickets, I don't see a heck of a lot of reason why those folks need to get involved in my business.

Stony
01-20-2010, 11:34 PM
all nice and good;
however, we are not in Haiti; certain classes of society are not in the majority yet.
good fences make good neighbors!

2dumb2kwit
01-21-2010, 08:39 AM
all nice and good;
however, we are not in Haiti;(and we haven't had a bad earthquake, so should we not prepare for one?) certain classes of society are not in the majority yet.(No, but they do exist. Should we act like they don't?)
good fences make good neighbors!



Sounds like "That can't happen to me."

Ole WV Coot
01-21-2010, 11:03 AM
I defended myself all my life and I am too old to change. I use anything available, will continue to depend on myself and I'm not above using any tactic that I've been taught. OK, I'm done.

Pal334
01-21-2010, 11:28 AM
I defended myself all my life and I am too old to change. I use anything available, will continue to depend on myself and I'm not above using any tactic that I've been taught. OK, I'm done.

I agree wholeheartedly. In an extreme, all bets are off, do what ya gotta do. But for "normal" situations there are limits

BENESSE
01-21-2010, 11:30 AM
One can NEVER be too prepared. What would be the downside?

What I sometimes struggle with (personally) is the balance of preparing for the worst while living and enjoying the present.
That balance isn't material if you have unlimited time and resources, or if you're clearly wired one way or another. (I envy those).

Either way it's a gamble requiring constant recalibration of priorities. Hardest work I've ever done because it's really never ever done--just work in progress.
Blissful ignorance or is it innocence? was so much simpler.

dbldrew
01-21-2010, 11:36 AM
Traps are a no-no.

But... who is to say you cannot plant say, poison ivy, around the vulnerable area. Such as under a window, along a fence, or whatnot. Assuming you do not have kids yourself who might find there way in there. It isn't your fault poison ivy is growing there, that is just nature.

But most people dont know what poison ivy looks like so that wouldnt be any kind of deterrent. I guess if someone breaks into your house at least he will get a rash in a few days, so I guess there is a small victory in that. Maybe some serous thorn bushes might be a little better?

Although now that I think about it poison ivy might not be a bad idea, it would be easier for the cops to track down the crook, just contact all the local hospitals and doctors offices to see who came in for poison ivy treatment, hmmm not bad.

Rick
01-21-2010, 12:07 PM
Or a really really big Venus People...I mean Fly Trap.

http://www.musical.it/bottega/images/Rick_Moranis_e_Audrey2.JPG

2dumb2kwit
01-21-2010, 02:20 PM
Feeeed me!

OGsBF
01-21-2010, 06:58 PM
The problem with alot of Americians is they think it will never happen to them.

yup. i witness this all the time in my mom. she never thinks anything will happen to her because she is so cozy with her white neighbors and gated suburban community... ugh

"why are you carrying around that stupid gun!"
"in case gangsters kick in the door"

apparently im paranoid.

rwc1969
01-21-2010, 10:04 PM
But most people dont know what poison ivy looks like so that wouldnt be any kind of deterrent. I guess if someone breaks into your house at least he will get a rash in a few days, so I guess there is a small victory in that. ....

that would just leave the criminals itchin for more.:tongue_smilie:

madmantrapper
01-21-2010, 10:47 PM
About forty five years ago I was having trouble with folks stealing my go cart gas. So after about a month of this I set a trap. I put the gas cans up on top of the pigeon coop. Along the edge of the coop I placed a board with razor blades standing on edge. Well I cought the guy alright, the police picked him up at the hospital getting his fingers sewed up. Back in those days I did not get in much trouble except with my mother. Could you imagine what would happen today, I'd be sued for all I'm worth, and some liberal judge would convict me.

Rick
01-21-2010, 11:55 PM
And you'd be paying my hospital bill....I, uh, mean, someone's hospital bill.

rwc1969
01-22-2010, 03:02 AM
Someone around here put a board with nails in the ground on their fenced in private and posted property. A guy cut the chain and drove in to go fishing. When he came back his tires were flat. He somehow ended up suing and winning because of imprisonment or something. Maybe he sued for sore feet from having to walk home or for damages to his vehicle.

Regardless the guy got sued and wouldn't let anyone go on his property after that.

another guy had a drunk come in his house after closing hours/ last call, enraged with a shotgun. He shot and killed the drunk and then went to prison.

I feel if you are illegally on a person's property they shouldn't be liable for anything that happens to you. Whether intentional or not.

Rick
01-22-2010, 07:44 AM
I guess that depends on where you live, too. Indiana's castle law would prevent you from being prosecuted when someone enters your home, especially with a shotgun. Given the mentality around here at least I don't think that would be an issue. The legal system seems to have quite a bit of common sense.

TucsonMax
01-22-2010, 07:42 PM
Traps are a no-no.

But... who is to say you cannot plant say, poison ivy, around the vulnerable area. Such as under a window, along a fence, or whatnot. Assuming you do not have kids yourself who might find there way in there. It isn't your fault poison ivy is growing there, that is just nature.

Down here, we plant cacti... lots of it... makes a pretty good wall and under windows too. Falling on one can mean a trip to the ER. Now, it won't stop everything, but it's an easy deterrent.

Pal334
01-22-2010, 08:27 PM
A thick overgrown rose bush does wonders also

Rick
01-22-2010, 08:36 PM
Down here, we plant cacti.

Yeah, I've got a picture of me in the desert outside Phoenix standing in a patch of cactus. My wife snapped the picture and about three of those @#$% things grabbed me by the leg. We spent the next ten minutes or so pulling out thorns!!!

Swamprat1958
01-23-2010, 07:00 PM
Agree, I"m kinda in the "Pry my cold dead fingers off, wading thru large pile of spent brass" crowd.

Me too. There will be a big pile of 7.62 x 39 underneath me:cool2:.

Timber_wolf
01-24-2010, 07:05 AM
That's one thing I like about Nebraska, if someone breaks into your home or damages your livestock it's "BLAM next character". No lawsuit, no criminal charges. Folks here take personal property and personal protection very seriously.

neondog
01-24-2010, 02:10 PM
A thick overgrown rose bush does wonders also

When my kids were small, I had a teenager that liked short cutting through my back yard and down the driveway just as fast as he could go.

Asked him twice to go slow but no affect so I decided to rewire the speakers in my truck. Just as he started down the driveway, I opened my truck door and he had to choose between denting the door or polishing our four foot rose bush. He chose the rosie path that day and a whole nother route from then on.

Ole WV Coot
01-24-2010, 07:17 PM
Whatever happened to fences and lockable gates?
I suppose it's not as macho as some other alternatives mentioned.

No way, If I am at home I refuse to live behind a fence or cower in the house. I have good locks, motion detector lighting and some other stuff but if I can't work in the yard, walk back on the hill or even go to Wally's I will defend my right to be where I am legally allowed to be and thanks to our laws I have as much right to personal defense walking down the street as I do in my home and I plan to use my God given rights. I don't draw a line just no bruises or holes in my body or a threat to my family, that will get one badly hurt and I ain't blowin' smoke. Done it before and will do it again. I plan on spending time in only states that recognize my rights. Lots like me around that don't say anything but will do what they think is necessary.

BENESSE
01-24-2010, 07:41 PM
No way, If I am at home I refuse to live behind a fence or cower in the house. I have good locks, motion detector lighting and some other stuff but if I can't work in the yard, walk back on the hill or even go to Wally's I will defend my right to be where I am legally allowed to be and thanks to our laws I have as much right to personal defense walking down the street as I do in my home and I plan to use my God given rights. I don't draw a line just no bruises or holes in my body or a threat to my family, that will get one badly hurt and I ain't blowin' smoke. Done it before and will do it again. I plan on spending time in only states that recognize my rights. Lots like me around that don't say anything but will do what they think is necessary.


I hear you Coot--don't disagree with anything you said.
However the saying "good fences make good neighbors" makes sense for a reason. I certainly enjoyed my fence back in the days and would always have one given the choice. Not to cower behind but to make sure there's no misunderstanding of any sort. And frankly, I just like the privacy and extra security.

crashdive123
01-24-2010, 07:45 PM
Fences are a good thing. They clearly denote where the rules of engagement change.

edr730
01-25-2010, 06:53 AM
Fences are good to keep the animals from getting out in rural areas. Just the opposite in the city. If I built a privacy fence here the laughter from my friends would never stop. I'm sure they would think I was crazy. In some other places they would doubt your sanity without a concrete wall surrounding the property.

billdawg
01-28-2010, 05:58 PM
GUNS????? We don't need no stinkin' guns! The POHLEESE will protect me.:innocent:

When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

chiangmaimav
01-28-2010, 07:07 PM
I already post message about German guy riding motorcycle who was killed here last week because he gave the finger to some Thai guy who almost ran him over, and the Thai guy shot him in the back. Now some 66 year old guy, also German, was stabbed to death because some Thai punks on motorbike cut him off, so he just beeped horn at them and they killed him. One of the disturbing things about all this is that some local people interviewed here by news said the victims deserved to die.
I should add that these people are definitely in minority, and most people here are really very friendly and believe murderers should be punished to the full extent of law.
Of course the obvious conclusion here is that it is best to avoid conflicts while driving. However, I would definitely carry a hand gun if it were legal. I carried one for 25 years in US as I was in law enforcement, and felt naked at first without it, but foreigners here cannot carry firearms, or even a knife for that matter. Thais can obtain a legal permit if they have a clean record, but despite this most of the firearms are unregistered, and Thailand was number 8 in the world in gun deaths last year.

hunter63
01-28-2010, 08:55 PM
Had a couple of break-ins in the garage.
Added the motion lights both on the outside and the inside. (better target acquisition).

I also picked up an old scanner police fire etc.
Wouln't keep programmed channels, the little watch battery holder that powers the "save" was rotted off.

So now I just leave it on........anybody near by can hear the calls... and tone outs....haven't had a problem in a long time.

Lots dogs also.

Excalibur
01-30-2010, 11:18 AM
I love texas laws. All i have to do is ask u to leave if ya dont or commit a felony, or even if i think u are, mess with my property I can drop ya like a deer. Only chance of prison time is if u cant own or use the weapons. sorry but IED's traps and bombs are still out.

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yellowcab
12-01-2025, 07:39 PM
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yellowcab
03-01-2026, 08:48 PM
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Bodu (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/143541)MacD (http://gascautery.ru/t/662559)Rajn (http://gashbucket.ru/t/284362)Haru (http://gasreturn.ru/t/774955)28AR (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/558886)Машк (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/676738)XVII (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/674701)Titt (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/656538)Арти (http://geartreating.ru/t/569229)Drim (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/356187)Tesc (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/558395)Арти (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/559177)Derm (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/139170)серт (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/139295)Bree (http://getthebounce.ru/t/138008)
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yellowcab
03-01-2026, 08:49 PM
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yellowcab
05-12-2026, 08:53 AM
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habeascorpus (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar (http://handradar.ru)
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keepagoodoffing (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)

yellowcab
05-12-2026, 08:54 AM
laterevent (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)stungun (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)