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Pal334
01-13-2010, 04:51 PM
I would imagine most, if not all have seen, or are following the disaster in Haiti. I for one am taking notice. What is of particular note is the response time by outside agencies. The Haitian government has always been totaly incompetent in taking care of its people, so there are no real lessons to be learned from them. It is an example of the "lag times" that occur in the event of a large scale disaster, and gives you an idea of how long you may be "on your own" in the event of something large scale. So I for one am paying attention and learning.

Rick
01-13-2010, 04:59 PM
If you intend to donate money to the relief effort then please be aware that scams are starting to pop up, as despicable as that is. Here's an article you will want to read.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/01/13/world-looks-help-haitians-scammers/

crashdive123
01-13-2010, 05:02 PM
There are so many people from around the world that are quick to help in situations like this. It truely is sad that some are so quick to take advantage of the pain and suffering of others though.

Pal334
01-13-2010, 05:07 PM
One of the biggest is the Government of Haiti itself. I would strongly recommend DO NOT donate to any entity within Haiti, especially government. Concentrate any donations to a reputable US based charity

crashdive123
01-13-2010, 05:11 PM
One of the biggest is the Government of Haiti itself. I would strongly recommend DO NOT donate to any entity within Haiti, especially government. Concentrate any donations to a reputable US based charity

Agreed. That is why there is such a disparity between them and the Dominican Republic.

Pal334
01-13-2010, 05:33 PM
Agreed. That is why there is such a disparity between them and the Dominican Republic.

I have been listening to the Haitian Ambassador to the US and the one interview with the Haitian President. They are shockling ignorant people. It is a shame fortheir people. And they have not even organized any type of Haitian government response!!!!!!!

Pal334
01-13-2010, 07:01 PM
One of the lessons I am seeing here is the value of a BOB, and "teaming" with kindred spirits . Mostly just to avoid the disorganization

Pal334
01-13-2010, 08:29 PM
In addition to the lessons we can glean from this, perhaps our members living in foreign lands should re evaluate, or at least review their plans

SARKY
01-13-2010, 09:20 PM
Pal, you hit the 2 big ones dead on! A BOB and teaming up with kindred spirits. With those 2 and some survival skills everything will work out to your benefit.

Pal334
01-13-2010, 09:27 PM
Pal, you hit the 2 big ones dead on! A BOB and teaming up with kindred spirits. With those 2 and some survival skills everything will work out to your benefit.

And CNN just had a report that sporadic gunfire is starting in the main square of the Capital city. That is another stage in a calamity. As horrible as this is, there are many lessons to be learned as it unfolds.

hoosierarcher
01-13-2010, 10:32 PM
I think about how corrupt the Haitian government is makes it easy to see why Obama made Bill Clinton Special Envoy to Haiti.

aflineman
01-13-2010, 11:23 PM
One of the biggest is the Government of Haiti itself. I would strongly recommend DO NOT donate to any entity within Haiti, especially government. Concentrate any donations to a reputable US based charity

Having spent more time there than I care to remember, I would have to agree. The Haitian government and most of the folks in power are VERY corrupt. I wonder who's palm we will have to grease (in the Haitian Gov) just to be allowed to help out.:sneaky2:

SARKY
01-14-2010, 02:01 AM
I am just damm tired of helping all these schmucks out! It seems like we are helping out corrupt countries all over the world, to what end? Maybe we should leave them to their own devices and then maybe the people in these countries we get the idea that they can't live with a corrupt government hat is ill prepared to do anything to help them in an emergency. These poeple don't want a hand up, they want a handout!

Pal334
01-14-2010, 06:26 AM
I am going to avoid any comment on the politics of the situation. I just hoping to learn from the tragedy. As SJJ said, it shows why some sort of a BOB is important. Seeing the example he cites, takes the subject from the abstract to the real. How about the possibility of storing some goods away from your primary residence? As we see in this example ,many of the homes have collapsed

your_comforting_company
01-14-2010, 07:55 AM
Just so you guys know I'm watching and learning too, I just haven't got a viable comment (yet). What I have to say might be a little left of center, so I'll wait...

Pal334
01-14-2010, 08:48 AM
A verbatim quote from a post by Rick. Is certainly worth a thought

"Currently, there is no way to accurately predict quakes.

My wife and I were talking about this last night. What if a 7.0 quake hit where you live? A magnitude 7 earthquake would produce seismogram waves 100 times as high and release energy 1024 times as great as a magnitude 5 earthquake. 7.0 is considered a major earthquake. How would your home hold up? It's certainly worth considering."

Pal334
01-14-2010, 08:55 AM
Unfortunately this is another thing to think of:

Quote from a CNN article:
"Outside the clinic -- and on city sidewalks -- people piled up bodies because there was nowhere to take or bury them"

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/14/haiti.earthquake/index.html

Rick
01-14-2010, 08:58 AM
At 7.0 damage to my home would be extensive. I would guess that my fireplace would collapse leaving a portion of one end of the house open. How many ceilings would collapse? Fortunately, I don't have gas utility so the threat of fire would be lessened but water lines (all copper) would certainly be damaged and municipal water would be gone as would sewer from broken and/or collapsed lines.

Do you have fall straps attached to large objects such as T.V., free standing shelves, water heaters, dressers, etc.? Even if your structure doesn't collapse a free standing shelf falling on you could kill you, cause crushing injuries and/or break bones.

Rick
01-14-2010, 09:00 AM
If you don't think earthquakes can occur where you live then take a look at this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Quake_epicenters_1963-98.png

SARKY
01-14-2010, 12:33 PM
The Madrid fault is comming due to erupt.

Rick
01-14-2010, 03:07 PM
I've posted on the New Madrid fault before. My Great ++++++ uncle was one of three Baptist ministers in the Indiana territory (which later became Illinois) and was called to baptize folks after the New Madrid earthquake of of 1812. Hundreds were being baptized daily after the quake. Hey! if the world's ending, you better get right.

He was afraid of horses and dismounted at every river crossing, undressed to his "nether garments" and led the horse across.

It's documented in Harvest Time on the Prairie.

BENESSE
01-14-2010, 03:38 PM
IF you happen to be in an earthquake and survive it and IF you happen to be able to get to your BOB (say it's not buried) that's all marvelous.

But given the fact that we can't really predict when we might get hit what seems more important is living in a structure that can be as earthquake proof as you can afford it.
Other than that, one ought to give some serious thought to surviving while being buried alive. It's been done and it takes some effort to wrap your mind around it. Yes, you're gonna need the presence your mind more than anything--to calm yourself down, to slow your heart rate, to conserve energy until you really need it, etc., etc.

I think this is the toughest kind of preparation and the least practiced.
Just think of the applications.

Scoobywan
01-14-2010, 03:41 PM
The Madrid fault is comming due to erupt.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-131-02/CUShazard.html -- US Hazard Map

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=215 -- Article on the probabilities of earthquakes coming from the Madrid Fault (published in 2003)

I searched, I found, I shared :)

BENESSE
01-14-2010, 03:47 PM
Hey! if the world's ending, you better get right.


Jesus is coming. Look busy.

2dumb2kwit
01-14-2010, 04:07 PM
He was afraid of horses and dismounted at every river crossing, undressed to his "nether garments" and led the horse across.

It's documented in Harvest Time on the Prairie.

So, the "runnin' around in a thong" thing goes waaaaay back, in your family.:blushing:

Rick
01-14-2010, 04:22 PM
Yeah but he used his for a sling shot. Mine is more like a missile launcher.

The thing about Haiti, as bad as it is, it's not the end of the world for them. Like New Orleans, in time, they will be able to rebuild society, such as it is. I would expect any group impacted by a localized disaster to rebound with time.

pocomoonskyeyes
01-14-2010, 04:50 PM
I think I have to agree about the possibility of losing your BOB in such a disaster. This brings forth a couple of thoughts.... 1) Possibly caching supplies in a safe location.( higher ground Away from any structures and above flood level) 2) learning as many "Primitive skills" as possible(including improvisational First Aid in case supplies are exhausted or destroyed)including "natural cures and Remedies".

RCKCRWLER
01-14-2010, 05:10 PM
Ya, I feel for those people and never want to be in their shoes per say.

However, being in Nevada earthquakes are something that I have to keep in the back of my mind.
I was in a mild earthquake here about 7 years ago. It was the weirdest thing ever, kinda like being on a raft in the ocean bobbing up and down on the waves. When I looked outside at the pool it looked like a wave pool. Not anything like I would ever imagine an earthquake would feel like.

Seeing the destruction in Haiti does make you realize the importance of having your gear stashed nearby an outside wall, in case you have to chop through the rubble to get it. Which in turn means finding something/ having something outside ready to do this.
Also brings up the importance of having a wrench capable of shutting off your gas valve/ water valve outside and readily accessible.

I have always been told keep a pair of shoes by your bed in case something happens in the middle of night and you have to get out now!

All in all it makes you think, but then again I guess this makes you realize the importance of having to improvise.

I don't know I'm babbling, sorry babble off.

aflineman
01-14-2010, 05:45 PM
Unfortunately this is another thing to think of:

Quote from a CNN article:
"Outside the clinic -- and on city sidewalks -- people piled up bodies because there was nowhere to take or bury them"

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/14/haiti.earthquake/index.html

Umm, they do that anyway. Almost every morning we drove up to the University Hospital, there would be a body or two in front of the door and/or gate. This will be MUCH worse, but bodies there are NOT that uncommon.
Also, what we would call a clinic or a doctor's office, they call a hospital. Nothing wrong with calling it a hospital, just a matter of different terminology.

Pal334
01-14-2010, 05:58 PM
Umm, they do that anyway. Almost every morning we drove up to the University Hospital, there would be a body or two in front of the door and/or gate. This will be MUCH worse, but bodies there are NOT that uncommon.
Also, what we would call a clinic or a doctor's office, they call a hospital. Nothing wrong with calling it a hospital, just a matter of different terminology.

WHat makes this out of what I could confidently say any of our experience is the sheer number of fatalities in such a relatively small area.

Watching now the coverage, we can see the inital shock is over and the population (those not using common sense and doing rescues) is starting to move, foraging for food and water.

I am not trying to be cold about this, but these are generally the various phases that will be seen in large scale incidents

neondog
01-14-2010, 10:59 PM
I have a (small) mountain range five miles north of my house. It was formed by one plate making room for another. No historic biggies here but occasional tiny tremors.

One thing that will help if your house collapses is big sturdy furniture like old school desks (teachers not the kids desks) or solid wood hutches etc... Particle board furnishings will just crumble up and fill in the gaps.

As far as the previous injustice in Haiti, the government buildings fell the hardest. The poorest people may have seen their dwelling about to fall and held it upright.

Pal334
01-15-2010, 09:25 AM
Last night, gang violence started on a small scale, fighting over what food and water is available. The next 24 -48 hours are important to get water and food out in an organized, disciplined way.
To date this is following the approximate timeline that one would expect

Pal334
01-15-2010, 11:39 AM
The water and sanitation, critical phases now start, approximately 72 hrs plus mark:

"What is the real killer, certainly in refugee situations, is the lack of decent sanitation, because people produce human waste and that, if it's not disposed of safely, is a huge risk to health,"

"Water is the key thing," he said. "You can go for some time without food, but you can't go all that long without water."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/15/haiti.earthquake/index.html?hpt=T1

aflineman
01-15-2010, 03:50 PM
This interview/article is disturbing.

"'Roadblock of bodies' seen in Haiti"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8460000/8460678.stm

Looks to be a part of protests because aid is not getting there fast enough.

Hopefully they can overcome the bottleneck at the airport and the port. Overland is not much better, but it seems to be moving.

Pal334
01-15-2010, 05:33 PM
"U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates echoed that remark, saying, "Other than some scavenging and minor looting, our understanding is the security situation is pretty good."

"The key is to get the food and the water in there as quickly as possible so that people don't, in their desperation, turn to violence or lead to the security situation deteriorating."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/15/haiti.earthquake/index.html?hpt=T1

Security for the food distribution is important. I just sawa report that showed with the language differences, some of the folks were rejecting food because they misunderstood that a manufacture date is not an expiration date.

They have to take control right away

aflineman
01-15-2010, 07:08 PM
"U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates echoed that remark, saying, "Other than some scavenging and minor looting, our understanding is the security situation is pretty good."

"The key is to get the food and the water in there as quickly as possible so that people don't, in their desperation, turn to violence or lead to the security situation deteriorating."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/15/haiti.earthquake/index.html?hpt=T1

Security for the food distribution is important. I just sawa report that showed with the language differences, some of the folks were rejecting food because they misunderstood that a manufacture date is not an expiration date.

They have to take control right away

I really hope that they get it together and take control. I see they have not learned yet some of the lessons from previous times. The airport is a major one. Never had been extra fuel on the ground there, you NEVER plan on refueling there. Been that way forever.
Guess I shouldn't be Monday morning quarterbacking though. I know I made my share of mistakes with a few operations. You do what you think is right at the time, better than sitting and doing nothing at all.

BENESSE
01-15-2010, 07:32 PM
[B][B][I][U][COLOR="Navy"]
I just sawa report that showed with the language differences, some of the folks were rejecting food because they misunderstood that a manufacture date is not an expiration date.


I hope that's not true or I'll really get steamed and disgusted no matter how sorry I feel for the people!
If you're desperate, starving and surrounded by filth and potential disease are you gonna be looking at expiration dates of charity food?
Am I missing something here?

Rick
01-15-2010, 08:19 PM
A lot of folks on here travel to different parts of the world so I thought this might be appropriate here. An Indianapolis based insurance group offers disaster insurance to extract you should a disaster occur where you are. They are currently in the process of extracting folks from Haiti.

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/international/latin_america/Indy-company-evacuating-Haiti-quake-victims

Pal334
01-15-2010, 08:55 PM
I hope that's not true or I'll really get steamed and disgusted no matter how sorry I feel for the people!
If you're desperate, starving and surrounded by filth and potential disease are you gonna be looking at expiration dates of charity food?
Am I missing something here?

From what I have gathered, it was a petty government official. The same has happened at the airport with the idiots requiring the Medical doctors to have their licenses valided. The US commander has put an end to that BS and things should start flowing.

Rick
01-16-2010, 08:13 PM
Perhaps we should all go home and let them manage it on their own. This one disgusts me.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5guma2WKnHthswP2UVPiCIuLm_ocQ

crashdive123
01-16-2010, 08:16 PM
If it wasn't for the children that haven't been taught how to hate yet - I'd agree.

BENESSE
01-16-2010, 08:21 PM
Perhaps we should all go home and let them manage it on their own. This one disgusts me.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5guma2WKnHthswP2UVPiCIuLm_ocQ

I'm with you Rick.
Perhaps if we declared a year long moratorium on getting involved outside of our borders we wouldn't be taken for granted as much as we do.
Let the rest of the ungrateful world start pulling their weight for a change.

Rick
01-16-2010, 08:24 PM
We're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

gryffynklm
01-16-2010, 08:25 PM
Too many back seat drivers.

BENESSE
01-16-2010, 08:30 PM
We're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Could be just me, but if we're gonna be damned if we do or don't, then maybe we shouldn't.

Pal334
01-16-2010, 08:32 PM
Perhaps we should all go home and let them manage it on their own. This one disgusts me.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5guma2WKnHthswP2UVPiCIuLm_ocQ

"Dozens of French citizens and dual Haitian-French nationals crowded the airport"

I would not be concerned, dozens hardly forms a crowd. And the French plane that was turned around, was turned because they could not read their flight schedule!!!! As the article says, it did get in later.

Also, food seem to be flowing slowly, so that should be lightening the burden on the victims

Pal334
01-16-2010, 08:34 PM
One article I read has the Chinese government claiming to be the first government to respond and get on site. THey seemed to ignore the fact that the Air Traffic Controler that talked them in, and then lead them to their parking spot was from the United States Air Force. Details, details :)

wareagle69
01-16-2010, 08:34 PM
one thing that struck me was either day one or two don't recall which there was a feller on there yelling at the camera "where is the red cross where is the world donations" people expect everything in an instant now a days and expect everone to come rescue them, seems most people have lost the ability to help themselves, heard similar stories about katrina, woman just sitting on the curb and when asked what she was doing she replied" just waiting for the government to help me out" or something like that
sad really. i will not be one of "those' people i will be ready

rebel
01-16-2010, 09:18 PM
one thing that struck me was either day one or two don't recall which there was a feller on there yelling at the camera "where is the red cross where is the world donations" people expect everything in an instant now a days and expect everone to come rescue them, seems most people have lost the ability to help themselves, heard similar stories about katrina, woman just sitting on the curb and when asked what she was doing she replied" just waiting for the government to help me out" or something like that
sad really. i will not be one of "those' people i will be ready

I had a similar thought. Had this happened 200+ years ago. By the time we found out about it, it would have been too late to respond.

huntermj
01-16-2010, 10:04 PM
200 hundred years ago, 1/4 the men would have formed a hunting group, 1/2 of the men would have started rebuilding houses and 1/4 of the men would have formed a security team. the women would have taken care of the children and the men and the cooking and the cleaning up and the medical issues and the orginizing and the ... that list just keeps going.
well at least 1/4 of the men got to go hunting.

huntermj
01-16-2010, 10:15 PM
The houses there are built out of old broom sticks. So its nowonder the destruction was so bad. And thats why i have a bob in the house and the car and the office.
I have maped routes to home from everywhere.
I have extra food for the people i rent from.
and have useful skills, even if i dont pay rent i have value for the community.
I dont count on forming a group to survive. But its ok if i do, i just dont count on others for my well being. Others have there own interest as first priotity as do i.
Ive had the life lessons to learn first hand to never trust my safety and well being to another, Never. I am my first responder.

AKS
01-17-2010, 05:45 AM
"U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates echoed that remark, saying, "Other than some scavenging and minor looting, our understanding is the security situation is pretty good."

"The key is to get the food and the water in there as quickly as possible so that people don't, in their desperation, turn to violence or lead to the security situation deteriorating."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/15/haiti.earthquake/index.html?hpt=T1

Security for the food distribution is important. I just sawa report that showed with the language differences, some of the folks were rejecting food because they misunderstood that a manufacture date is not an expiration date.

They have to take control right away


Funny, the reporter I saw on CNN was the one saying we were sending the hatians expired MRE's. That's a born on date not an expiration date! I am getting ready to get on a plane to Haiti and don't appreciate idiots stirring up more trouble for me than I already had to deal with.

The Navy is already there producing water from their onboard desalination plants and the Air Force is on the way with a bunch of ROWPU's (really big water filters for those that don't know). Once the distribution process is figured out we will be able to keep quite a few peoples hydrated indefinitely, and that is exactly how long I will be there....indefinitely.

Pal334
01-17-2010, 06:36 AM
AKS,,, Good luck, stay safe

I agree it is going to be enough of a "cluster" without all the CNN "experts" helping you.

Be interested in hearing your experiences when you get back

Rick
01-17-2010, 01:45 PM
Good luck, AKS. Stay safe!!!

Pal334
01-17-2010, 02:33 PM
"There's no system in place here. Literally these people here are being collected off the streets, dumped into a dump truck, then brought out here and dumped in the pits," he said."

"The fear of disease is frequently the reason for rapidly burying bodies in mass graves. But contrary to popular belief, bodies do not cause epidemics after natural disasters, experts said."


"Body collection is not the most urgent task after a natural disaster," according to the WHO's 2006 guidance on the Management of Dead Bodies after Disasters. "The priority is to care for survivors. There is no significant public health risk associated with the presence of bodies. Nevertheless, bodies should be collected as soon as possible and taken away for identification."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/01/14/haiti.mass.fatalities.bodies/index.html?hpt=T2

This is an unfortunate but eventually necessary ocurrance. However the Haitian government is not even taking the time to photgraph, or collect IDs of the folks going into mass graves. They could have delayed slightly with the burials until a photo system could have been organized. Other than the very unpleasent odors, there was and is no real health concern.

Rick
01-17-2010, 03:26 PM
Just hauling them out there in dump trucks and dumping them like garbage. That's sad. Some many friends and relatives will just simply disappear.

Rick
01-17-2010, 03:31 PM
I wonder how many foreigners are in those graves? If you were a criminal that had survived, here's a perfect way to escape. Everyone would just assume you were killed. This is wrong on a lot of levels.

BENESSE
01-17-2010, 06:04 PM
I am trying to learn from this event and apply it to my present life and frankly, I'm drawing a blank.
Maybe it's too much wine during the skiing vacation that temporarily singed the synopses but here's what's going through my head:
I travel a great deal on business--pretty much all over the world except some really dangerous places.
I don't travel with my BOB but as a matter of habit I always do some research on the lay of the land ahead of time.
Thing is, if I found myself in Haiti at this time I would have certainly been caught off guard in a big way.
I'd be staying in a hotel without the benefit of my BOB, without knowing my way around or even speaking the language.
If I survived, I'd have to navigate my way to the American embassy at best, or just keep a low profile until help showed up. Well how do you keep a low profile in in strange land when all hell breaks loose?

What would you do given the circumstances?

Rick
01-17-2010, 07:35 PM
It would obviously depend on the event but you have to improvise. You do all the safety things for your hotel room that you should do anywhere:

1. Acquire a room on the 4th, 5th or 6th floor only away from stairwells, elevators and vending machines. One with a roof one or two stories below your window would be ideal.
2. Do a safety inspection on the room itself.
3. Count the number of doors from your room to the exit.
4. Always carry your room key even if you are exiting in an emergency.
5. Always have a flashlight handy. I've been in a hotel with a power outage and it was a life saver. I was the only one, including staff, that had one.
6. Carefully look over your room to figure out what items you can improvise with.

a. Shower curtain - Roofing, poncho, ground cover.
b. Curtains and towels - bandages and filters for water and breathing
c. Coffee pot for boiling water (carafe for carrying water)
d. Mirror for signalling
e. sheets and/or bedspread - sarape

The next time you are in a hotel room make a list of all the things you can improvise with. Then, each time you travel to a new hotel, take out your list and check to see if the things on it will match your hotel room (no coffee pot for example). If you find something new, figure out as many uses for it as you can then add them to your list.

If something bad happens you will be in a room that offers you the best means of escape and you will know what items in the room can be used to your best advantage.

BENESSE
01-17-2010, 08:09 PM
It would obviously depend on the event but you have to improvise.

I was actually imagining finding myself in Port au Prince right now, having emerged from the rubble of my hotel with just the clothes on my back. Mayhem, death and disease everywhere, and no immediate help except for those seriously hurt and dying.
I don't know anyone and don't speak French.
Suppose my first move would be to find the American embassy/mission and go from there. However if that's flattened I'd have to think about step 2 and I'm drawing a blank to be honest.

Pal334
01-17-2010, 08:21 PM
Benesse, I too have done extensive overseas travel. Here are a couple things I always did (being the paranoid old fart I am). This is of course in addition to the things Rick mentioned;
I kept my passport, list of important phone #s in one of those "pouch thingies" around my neck when I slept.

Also had a map of the city I was in with important things marked (US and friendy embassies) . Is a boredoom killing distraction doing the markings.

Kept a pair of slip on sneakers with a bottle of water (or soda if water was not available) inside one sneaker next to the bed.

And had a mini BOB from a shopping bag nearby with whatever junk food or snacks were available.

Needless to say I have always been a paranoid traveler, mostly do to my line of work, but these preparations would go a long way to mitigate the initial impact of an emergency while traveling overseas

BENESSE
01-17-2010, 08:42 PM
All good points, Rick & Pal.
I too have always been a nervous and fairly well prepared traveler with the exception of keeping the most important stuff within an arms reach.
It would be in the room, most likely in the safe unless I was going out. But in retrospect, keeping the passport, cred. cards and money in the safe while I slept made no sense really. I like the idea of a pouch thingie around the neck.

Rick
01-18-2010, 12:19 AM
There is a gal that used to live about 8 miles from me that is now a missionary in Haiti. A mutual friend sent me an email she received from her. It broke down the first three days nearly hour by hour. Her parents arrived in Haiti a couple of hours before the quake. She talked about utilizing the swimming pool at the airport hotel for water. Everyone trying to either treat the injured or help rescue someone trapped in debris. She also said they began burning bodies on the second day. I don't understand that aspect of it but that's what happened.

I watched 60 minutes tonight and they were loading bodies with a front end loader and dumping them in the back of dump trucks. Pretty sick.

aflineman
01-18-2010, 01:24 AM
Funny, the reporter I saw on CNN was the one saying we were sending the hatians expired MRE's. That's a born on date not an expiration date! I am getting ready to get on a plane to Haiti and don't appreciate idiots stirring up more trouble for me than I already had to deal with.

The Navy is already there producing water from their onboard desalination plants and the Air Force is on the way with a bunch of ROWPU's (really big water filters for those that don't know). Once the distribution process is figured out we will be able to keep quite a few peoples hydrated indefinitely, and that is exactly how long I will be there....indefinitely.

Good luck man. Take care of yourself. Indefinite ETS, I remember those days.
The army had a nice system for packaging water from the ROWPU. It was put it in little bags that were about 1 liter. First time I ran into them was Hurricane Mitch in Guatemala. Very handy system for distribution. I think they had contractors running it. Hopefully they have something like it in Haiti. It would make life somewhat easier.

Pal334
01-18-2010, 10:11 AM
I find this very disturbing and totaly unacceptable!!!!

The only functioning field hospital in Haiti is run by the Isrealis. They had to come from across the globe and they are up, running and doing surgeries. Where are our (U.S. )military hospitals?

People are dying while the Bureaucrats putz around

Rick
01-18-2010, 10:30 AM
The 60 minutes segment showed American doctors in a make shift hospital amputating a kids leg with a hack saw. That's all they had. They didn't even have alcohol because they had run out.

Pal334
01-18-2010, 10:35 AM
And this is DAY 6!!!!

A total failure!!! WHy are they not allowing the US military medics with a squad of riflemen to disperse out into the communities to provide at least the rudiments of care. I would guess that would be at least 100 small clinics up and running with in hours.

Rick
01-18-2010, 10:44 AM
You might find it interesting that the U.S. troops on the ground are carrying weapons but have NOT been issued ammo. Why carry extra weight if it is of no value? Maybe that 72 hour bag should be a 144 hour bag?!

Pal334
01-18-2010, 11:03 AM
You might find it interesting that the U.S. troops on the ground are carrying weapons but have NOT been issued ammo. Why carry extra weight if it is of no value? Maybe that 72 hour bag should be a 144 hour bag?!

That is typical Army, empty weapons. In the US Air Force, if you carry a weapon on duty , it must be loaded, or live ammo in possession of the carrier. What is the point of not having ammo? If there is no threat, stack arms in a secure location and get them to work.

Rick
01-18-2010, 11:06 AM
That information was courtesy of the 60 minutes show last night.

Pal334
01-18-2010, 08:19 PM
THe Israelis are even setting up clinics away from their hospital setup. Number of US Field Hospitals open to date? NONE!!!!! This such an embarassment

Batch
01-18-2010, 08:30 PM
I have a friend that is a former Marine (I know and save it).

He said that when he was issued mags for guard duty he was given three or two with all blanks and one with 3 or 5 live rounds. He got the live rounds.

If you can't trust your soldiers with live rounds blame the instruction.

BENESSE
01-18-2010, 08:30 PM
THe Israelis are even setting up clinics away from their hospital setup. Number of US Field Hospitals open to date? NONE!!!!! This such an embarassment

There's much we can learn from the Israelis--from homeland security to getting stuff accomplished efficiently.
They're even like our bff, so don't understand what's the big deal.

Batch
01-18-2010, 08:45 PM
They're even like our bff, so don't understand what's the big deal.

Wouldn't bet on that. From its modern inception Israel has shown a ruthless disregard for anyone's interest but her own.

The US may be Israels biggest ally. But, that is not reciprocated.

Pal334
01-18-2010, 09:04 PM
Now is the stage that can and will have long term impact.

"Many victims could die from wounds that under normal circumstances would be easily treatable; a lack of food and clean water raises concerns over disease outbreaks. And people who were getting treatment for HIV and other chronic diseases no longer have access to care."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/18/haiti.whats.next/index.html?hpt=T2

This may be the time when you should have tried to absent yourself from a major population area, to avoid any empidemics. At this point, the average human will be sufficiently weakened that an out break of the good old fashioned flu could decimate a community.

Rick
01-18-2010, 09:32 PM
I saw on the news tonight one Chinese relief plane tied up the runway for two hours to do photo ops. Hello?!

aflineman
01-18-2010, 09:58 PM
That is typical Army, empty weapons. In the US Air Force, if you carry a weapon on duty , it must be loaded, or live ammo in possession of the carrier. What is the point of not having ammo? If there is no threat, stack arms in a secure location and get them to work.
That is how it was with us down there. Army=empty weapons, Air Force=loaded weapons. Didn't make sense to me, but we didn't have as many problems with crowds and people stealing from us as the Army did.

BTW, my Avatar was taken in Haiti as I was providing armed overwatch for an Army unit that was having problems. The Haitians learned to respect the "red hats" as they called us. Between building stuff, feeding folks, and not putting up with crap, they didn't mess with us to much.

BENESSE
01-18-2010, 10:54 PM
Wouldn't bet on that. From its modern inception Israel has shown a ruthless disregard for anyone's interest but her own.

The US may be Israels biggest ally. But, that is not reciprocated.

Whether that's true or not isn't germane to the point I was trying to make.
The point being, that we can learn a lot from Israel or any other country that has managed to do deal with challenges (we all share) much more successfully than we have.

Batch
01-18-2010, 11:11 PM
Ok, I quoted and posted specifically to something regarding them being our bff.

It was probably said in jest. But, we have no BFFs in this world when it comes to war and putting lives on the line.

Pal334
01-19-2010, 07:55 AM
Whether that's true or not isn't germane to the point I was trying to make.
The point being, that we can learn a lot from Israel or any other country that has managed to do deal with challenges (we all share) much more successfully than we have.

Excellent point. Why keep reinventing the wheel? Take a successful model from whatever the source and "tweak" it to your own needs.

Pal334
01-19-2010, 08:50 AM
"Complicating matters, about 4,000 convicted criminals are on the loose. The capital's 95-year-old, badly overcrowded National Penitentiary collapsed after the quake, and the inmates escaped.

"We have an emergency now," Andresol said. "Because, probably next week, we will have more confusion on the street. The bad guys will be organizing themselves, and they can be the most principal threat to the police and the population."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/19/haiti.tent.cities/index.html?hpt=T1

Always keep in mind that a wide scale disaster will most likely release some very unsavory characters into your community, and may even encourage some borderline miscreants to act up. Local Law Enforcement and security forces will be just as adversely effected by the calamity as the local population, so help will be slow to arrive and take charge. Be prepared as a group or individually to protect yourself (s)

Rick
01-19-2010, 12:21 PM
I just shook my head. On the CBS news last night they showed guys pulling up in armored cars. They were looting bolts of fabric from the 3rd or 4th floor of a damaged building and loading them in the armored cars. Not food. Not water. Bolts of cloth.

trax
01-19-2010, 02:43 PM
Ok, I quoted and posted specifically to something regarding them being our bff.

It was probably said in jest. But, we have no BFFs in this world when it comes to war and putting lives on the line.

Well now, we could have a wee debate about that entire issue, but it might get viewed as political and this thread is about the disaster in Haiti

Rick
01-19-2010, 03:46 PM
CBS also said Haitians were paying $10 American for a bus ticket out of Port Au Prince (sp). That's has to be a lot of money to most of them. Especially now. I'm not certain if they were just heading out of the city or trying to go to the Dominican Rep.

Pal334
01-19-2010, 05:58 PM
CBS also said Haitians were paying $10 American for a bus ticket out of Port Au Prince (sp). That's has to be a lot of money to most of them. Especially now. I'm not certain if they were just heading out of the city or trying to go to the Dominican Rep.

THere is another lesson. Expect price gouging!!!! Those same bus rides used to cost 2-3 dollars.
I am not sure that they will head to the Dominican Republic, I believe they are trying to control their border. Some reports are saying that they are just trying to get to family and friends in country

crashdive123
01-19-2010, 06:36 PM
Well now, we could have a wee debate about that entire issue, but it might get viewed as political and this thread is about the disaster in Haiti

I was proud to serve side by side with many Canadians, Australians, Brits and others during my miltary career.

See that - no politics.

BENESSE
01-19-2010, 06:54 PM
I was proud to serve side by side with many Canadians, Australians, Brits and others during my miltary career.

See that - no politics.


Smooth.
That's why you're the Sup. Mod.!

aflineman
01-19-2010, 07:17 PM
THere is another lesson. Expect price gouging!!!! Those same bus rides used to cost 2-3 dollars.
I am not sure that they will head to the Dominican Republic, I believe they are trying to control their border. Some reports are saying that they are just trying to get to family and friends in country
The ride in the "tap taps" used to be cheap to get you to the outlying towns. With fuel being scarce though, probably costs a pretty penny to run them now.
I think most folks are probably headed home to be with family. Many were just in PAP to work and send funds back home. Or got to school. If there are no jobs, or no school, why stay? I would probably be doing the same. I would much rather be with family at a time like this.

Sourdough
01-19-2010, 07:32 PM
I have not read this thread, and I do not mean for this to sound heartless or cruel, that said, maybe the world needs to rethink the damage created by excessive financial foreign aid. Haiti gets over 55% of what it needs via financial foreign aid from many countries, perhaps this was a mistake, the aid should have been given as infrastructure improvements.

crashdive123
01-19-2010, 07:37 PM
Nothing cruel about that at all. Unlimited welfare - although well intended, often perpetuates the problem that it was intended to aleviate.

Pal334
01-19-2010, 08:33 PM
For too long we gave them the fish, and forgot to teach how to use the fishing pole

Pal334
01-19-2010, 08:37 PM
I have not read this thread, and I do not mean for this to sound heartless or cruel, that said, maybe the world needs to rethink the damage created by excessive financial foreign aid. Haiti gets over 55% of what it needs via financial foreign aid from many countries, perhaps this was a mistake, the aid should have been given as infrastructure improvements.

MAy also be an opportunity to rid them of the corruption of their government since it has all but collapsed and dissappeared.

Probably not a popular notion, but may be more cost effective in the future

BENESSE
01-19-2010, 08:44 PM
MAy also be an opportunity to rid them of the corruption of their government since it has all but collapsed and dissappeared.

Probably not a popular notion, but may be more cost effective in the future

At the risk of sounding cynical, I don't see that happening.
It makes infinite sense of course, but "we" haven't had much success in achieving that anywhere in a very long time.

Camp10
01-19-2010, 08:53 PM
At the risk of sounding cynical, I don't see that happening.
It makes infinite sense of course, but "we" haven't had much success in achieving that anywhere in a very long time.

We have removed many corrupt governments from power..we are very good at that. Where we make our mistake is thinking that doing so meant that those countries will rebuild themselves without the corruption. Then we get stuck in the endless task of peace keeping and that is what we are not so good at.

BENESSE
01-19-2010, 08:59 PM
We have removed many corrupt governments from power..we are very good at that. Where we make our mistake is thinking that doing so meant that those countries will rebuild themselves without the corruption. Then we get stuck in the endless task of peace keeping and that is what we are not so good at.

We don't do the hard part so well.
It's always instant gratification with no follow through and no real understanding of what it takes to make a lasting change.
What a cumulative waste!

Rick
01-19-2010, 09:02 PM
Boats in the harbor of POP were absolutely loaded to the gills with folks getting out of Dodge. It makes you wonder just how many people you can actually put on a boat and still have it float.

And....the prison collapsed during the quake and all the prisoners escaped.

BENESSE
01-19-2010, 09:27 PM
Boats in the harbor of POP were absolutely loaded to the gills with folks getting out of Dodge.
And....the prison collapsed during the quake and all the prisoners escaped.

I'd like to know where those boats will be headed for.

Camp10
01-19-2010, 09:29 PM
I'd like to know where those boats will be headed for.

Did you see the pictures of them? It looks like they will be heading to the bottom to me! I've never seen that many people on a single ship before.

Pal334
01-20-2010, 08:08 AM
THis is definitely not needed

CNN Breaking News Wed 1/20/2010 6:36 AM
-- The U.S. Geological Survey reports a 6.1-magnitude aftershock to last week's earthquake has struck Haiti.

Rick
01-20-2010, 08:23 AM
The news said they pulled a woman from the rubble yesterday still alive after a week. That's pretty remarkable for no water and given she was 69 years old. Bravo for her!!!

Let's hope our troops are safe from any damage this new quake has caused.

Sourdough
01-20-2010, 09:22 AM
The news said they pulled a woman from the rubble yesterday still alive after a week. That's pretty remarkable for no water and given she was 69 years old. Bravo for her!!!


I have for some time been uncomfortable with the foundation facts for survival. It is time for re-evaluation of basic assumptions for survival needs. I fear we have collapsed the two domains of what is need for "Healthy" life, with what is the minimal needed to stay alive.

Pal334
01-20-2010, 09:33 AM
A significant lesson that we all can take from this calamity. Although being "Prepared " is desirable and probably to a great extent necessary, the human spirit and the will to survive can not be discounted. Also a great deal of patience

aflineman
01-20-2010, 09:51 AM
Looks like they just took another hit. This has always been my largest fear in a earthquake. Aftershocks days later. Things just start to settle down and you get another one.:cold:

trax
01-20-2010, 02:40 PM
I have for some time been uncomfortable with the foundation facts for survival. It is time for re-evaluation of basic assumptions for survival needs. I fear we have collapsed the two domains of what is need for "Healthy" life, with what is the minimal needed to stay alive.

I agree wholeheartedly. If any person is stuck in a ba!!s to the wall survival situation I believe that it's imperative upon those considering that situation to look at it for what it is....get out of that situation and to safety/healthiness as quickly as possible. I'm sure that those folks in Haiti right now aren't seriously contemplating squatter's rights in northern Manitoba or what's the best crops to grow in areas with a short summer for their new homestead. And they're just one example. Now, there's certainly no harm in contributing to threads about both types of situations, as long as we're clear and those reading know that we're offering something relevant to the topic at hand. (Thread hijacking aside, which of course...I've never done:sneaky2:)

BENESSE
01-20-2010, 02:58 PM
I fear we have collapsed the two domains of what is need for "Healthy" life, with what is the minimal needed to stay alive.

You are right.
IMO the various needs for a healthy life are fairly subjective and endlessly debatable.
I find that learning about the latter in a place like this is by far more constructive.

Rick
01-20-2010, 03:21 PM
Last night they showed a bunch of little kids that were in the process of being adopted. They hustled them through the process and flew them to Pennsylvania. They were all smiles as they stepped off the plane in sleeveless T shirts, shorts and sandals. :eek:

Pal334
01-20-2010, 06:03 PM
Another lesson to be learned:
The simple relatively low tech ham radio

"When other systems don't work, [radio] always works," he said. "It doesn't matter -- no matter where you are in the world ... you can get a [high-frequency] signal out and somebody will hear."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/01/20/haiti.amateur.radio/index.html?hpt=C1

I am certain there are exceptions to that statement, but it has worked in this situation.

Pal334
01-20-2010, 09:13 PM
Another thing that I personaly have not given sufficient thought to:

Care of Senior citizens that you may be responsible for. Shelter , food,medical/medicine. Due to typically a fragile health state, they are very vulnerable.

"Seniors left without careThe residents of a retirement home in Haiti have been left without medical attention since the earthquake. Their ailments range from cancer to dementia, and they have little food, water or medicine"

Rick
01-20-2010, 10:28 PM
Another lesson to be learned:
The simple relatively low tech ham radio

You can also build a radio that requires no batteries or electricity.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1306&highlight=hole+radio

Pal334
01-21-2010, 08:38 AM
You can also build a radio that requires no batteries or electricity.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1306&highlight=hole+radio

I was reading that post. I do vaguely remember it from school. It is a reciever only? Would be invaluable to at least recieve news, is something to grasp onto during the "dark" times. Do you know how complicated it would be to purchase the equipment for a simple HAM style radio? I am not overly concerned with the licensing aspects, just acquisition of the hardware and getting it running.

PS: Those instructions will be printed and posted directly to my "BOB" book.

Pal334
01-21-2010, 11:34 AM
I like this for using technology, cuts alot of the "BS " out


"Guard Uses Chat Room to Support Relief Effort
By Air Force Staff Sgt. J. Paul Croxon
Special to American Forces Press Service
SAN JUAN, P.R., Jan. 21, 2010 - With the recent earthquake destroying so much of Haiti's infrastructure, communication between military units remains vital to supporting the relief effort. "

Air Force 1st Lt. Tirso Pea, a navigator assigned to the Puerto Rico Air National Guard's 156th Airlift Squadron, monitors a chat room at the Puerto Rico National Guard joint operations center in San Juan, P.R. Multiple military units use the chat room to transmit information about the Haitian earthquake relief efforts. U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Paul Croxon
(Click photo for screen-resolution image);high-resolution image available.

A readily available chat client is being used to relay critical information between the services and is proving to be a powerful communication tool.

Defense Connect Online is similar to many commercial chat clients. It has different virtual chat rooms where groups can congregate and disseminate information; however, these chat rooms are filled with military members from every service.

"This is the first time I've seen anything like this," said Air Force 1st Lt. Tirso Pea, a navigator from the 156th Airlift Wing who is working in the Puerto Rico National Guard joint operations center. "We're able to see all this information and requests for support and disseminate the pertinent information down to the individual units."

One such instance occurred when a Navy P-3 Orion was trying to communicate with Army units on the ground, Pea said. The radio frequency information for the Army unit was relayed to the P-3 via the chat room, saving the sailors valuable time searching channel by channel.

Other uses for the chat room involve getting supplies to the people who need it most. Pea said he saw a request from units on the ground for food, water and medical supplies for an orphanage that hadn't seen any relief since the quake hit.

"We were able to funnel that information to our Puerto Rico National Guard units in the Dominican Republic who were able to load a [HH-60] Black Hawk helicopter and get those supplies to the 20 or so orphans."

The Defense Connect Online program fits a unique set of circumstances since the earthquake devastated the telecommunications infrastructure but left some Internet connectivity. It also is an efficient way to organize information by audience, mission or geographic location.

"I've seen the system be used to relay information such as flight times from Puerto Rico to Port-au-Prince, Haiti, and to help plan missions to extract a little girl with internal bleeding," Pea said. "It's one more tool to get aid to the people who need it most."

(Air Force Staff Sgt. J. Paul Croxon serves with the Defense Media Activity-San Antonio.)

Rick
01-21-2010, 12:14 PM
@ Pal - Yes, the radio is receive only. I'm not up on Ham but there are a few on here that are. This guy is on my "gotta have" list.

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/0666.html

As to your post on seniors. Yes. That should be a concern as well as anyone that has ongoing medical needs such as ostomies, recharging wheelchairs, etc.

On the chat room, Bravo to them!! Whatever makes the job easier and facilitates saving lives. Isn't it great they have the lee way to utilize some out of the box thinking?

Pal334
01-21-2010, 12:21 PM
I am going to look closely at that radio, may be a good buy.

"On the chat room, Bravo to them!! Whatever makes the job easier and facilitates saving lives. Isn't it great they have the lee way to utilize some out of the box thinking?"

Notice was National Guard, not historicaly known for allowing "the system" to get in the way of common sense :)

Rick
01-21-2010, 12:23 PM
You might find a better price by looking at something like thefind.com. I just book marked that one so I would know what I was looking for.

aflineman
01-21-2010, 01:39 PM
I am going to look closely at that radio, may be a good buy.

"On the chat room, Bravo to them!! Whatever makes the job easier and facilitates saving lives. Isn't it great they have the lee way to utilize some out of the box thinking?"

Notice was National Guard, not historicaly known for allowing "the system" to get in the way of common sense :)

We used them many a time. Both during exercises and in real life. They work well, and help keep down on some of the noise in the DCC. As I was leaving, they were starting to issue handheld devices to folks on the Damage Assessment Teams. I can see that making the system really shine. Radios are nice, but these things could send text, photos and video also. One heck of a nice tool for the toolbox, as long as it works.

Pal334
01-24-2010, 05:46 PM
There is an "app"for that

This guy some how made a good decision when he was downing loading applications for his phone.

"CNN) -- Alone in the darkness beneath layers of rubble, Dan Woolley felt blood streaming from his head and leg.
Then he remembered -- he had an app for that."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/24/haiti.survivor.phone.app/index.html?hpt=T1

It pays to think outside the box, it could save you life!!!!

crashdive123
01-24-2010, 07:06 PM
I heard that story on the radio today.

Rick
01-24-2010, 07:20 PM
Wow! That's just crazy stuff. Thanks for posting. I hadn't seen that.

crashdive123
01-24-2010, 07:48 PM
As I was driving today I thought that this might give a glimmer of reason for those that look down their noses at technology.

Rick
01-24-2010, 07:52 PM
The key to anything is to be able to use it to your advantage. I guess black powder was state of the art at some point. There was probably a crusty old Chinaman leaning on his long bow watching a bunch of younger guys mixing up some black powder thinking, "Just a flash in the pan".

Pal334
01-24-2010, 08:18 PM
I mentioned this story to my neighbors daughter who is an ER nurse. She said she and most of her co workers keep reference stuff on their Ipod touch. it is small and holds tons of stuff at your finger tips. Obviously not the answer to everything, but another resource

crashdive123
01-24-2010, 08:20 PM
Along those lines - does anybody here use Kindle or one of the other electronic books. That's probably another way to store a large volume of information that is easily transported.

Camp10
01-24-2010, 08:28 PM
Along those lines - does anybody here use Kindle or one of the other electronic books. That's probably another way to store a large volume of information that is easily transported.

I just learned about them a few weeks ago and planned on looking into it when I got home...I forgot! Thanks for the reminder.

BENESSE
01-24-2010, 08:32 PM
Along those lines - does anybody here use Kindle or one of the other electronic books. That's probably another way to store a large volume of information that is easily transported.

I have the NOOK from Barnes & Noble.
Resisted the idea behind anything that's not a book but I LOVE this thing. The hubby and I keep fighting over it.

Pal334
01-24-2010, 08:32 PM
Along those lines - does anybody here use Kindle or one of the other electronic books. That's probably another way to store a large volume of information that is easily transported.

I have not used a Kindle, but a few months ago started to use an Acer netbook computer for work and home. It is a tiny little thing, mine has a 10.5 inch screen with 6 hour battery. When coupled with a docking station does everything I need. Plus it is almost hand size. I store lots of stuff, books, downloads of stuff folks share here etc, and even some workstuff :)

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://aceraspirenetbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/4145ebbpvll_sl500_aa280_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://aceraspirenetbooks.com/&usg=__JuguVCpg3uIdiBhBcqSJUA2RzSg=&h=280&w=280&sz=8&hl=en&start=69&tbnid=YNdrEcPOP6r2oM:&tbnh=114&tbnw=114&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dacer%2Bnetbook%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D18% 26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D54

Pal334
01-26-2010, 05:58 PM
An unfortunate aftermath is also the number of orphans. As you see in the quote below, their number of orphans pre event were huge. If we had a large scale disaster, how would we handle the issue? Do we have an individual responsibility ? Have you given this any thought? Regretably, I have not, but I know I would be eternally grateful if someone took care of my young ones if needed.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/26/haiti.orphans/index.html?hpt=T2

"Before the quake, 380,000 children in Haiti were classified as orphans, Landrieu said, quoting figures from the United Nations, which defines an orphan as someone who has lost one parent."

Pal334
01-26-2010, 06:21 PM
Quality of medical care will be impacted tremendously. Even with hign quality medical caregivers, lack or sparsity of medical equipment and medicines will degrade quality of care;

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/01/26/haiti.doctors.lessons/index.html?hpt=T2


"The doctors, who worked at the Boston Medical Center, quickly learned that when you have no technology -- not even the simplest blood test -- you have to make medical decisions in an entirely different way."

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Dail (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/17532)Phil (http://hangonpart.ru/t/10420)ради (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/63775)Кома (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/46362)Stou (http://hardasiron.ru/t/36480)1287 (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/107806)Rene (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/166506)Guil (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/25422)карм (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/156020)необ (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/66349)Beco (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/45725)Фрай (http://headregulator.ru/t/93463)Gene (http://heartofgold.ru/t/128811)Соде (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/70077)VINC (http://heatinggas.ru/t/132394)
случ (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/279870)Alex (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/229003)Joha (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/254982)служ (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/227352)Модз (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/199669)упра (http://jobstress.ru/t/265196)допо (http://jogformation.ru/t/228951)Pete (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/122072)рома (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/473928)Vogu (http://journallubricator.ru/t/140022)Wind (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/140208)Cali (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/168948)Hous (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/27208)Бори (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/29970)RTFX (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/27127)
Степ (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/227280)Wind (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/26524)Wind (http://kentishglory.ru/t/177634)Bran (http://kerbweight.ru/t/134585)Шатр (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/52104)Shre (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/26608)Peep (http://keyserum.ru/t/130963)Arts (http://kickplate.ru/t/155157)Пузи (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/196311)Кита (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/143557)Stou (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/230793)рода (http://kinozones.ru/film/51)опас (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/237983)Васу (http://kneejoint.ru/t/196225)Dolb (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/252674)
Side (http://knockonatom.ru/t/130821)Гнез (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/227462)Arts (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/155584)Суко (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/220977)Naso (http://laborracket.ru/t/155737)Four (http://labourearnings.ru/t/130573)Mart (http://labourleasing.ru/t/64278)стол (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/280964)Hein (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/214626)Inga (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/263821)Nint (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/95247)авто (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/79655)elec (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/67423)Simo (http://laggingload.ru/t/65757)Загв (http://laissezaller.ru/t/69289)
Conn (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/55378)Cake (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/46060)XVII (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/25470)напр (http://lamphouse.ru/t/81291)Jean (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/71886)Воло (http://lancingdie.ru/t/65384)Vita (http://landingdoor.ru/t/50302)Drea (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/165379)Pete (http://landreform.ru/t/160697)ZeLi (http://landuseratio.ru/t/128071)Thro (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/169611)пятн (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1152027)изги (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/95398)меся (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/55)Stud (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/14403)

yellowcab
09-19-2025, 06:59 AM
(шку (http://laterevent.ru/shop/154378)Sams (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/451398)Asko (http://layabout.ru/shop/99194)Writ (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/10981)Assa (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/20326)Paul (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/80876)Esca (http://leaveword.ru/shop/18031)Morg (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/18226)Fies (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/95494)Объе (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/18285)Best (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/46207)ESAC (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/194921)Mati (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/18919)Иван (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/158840)Sony (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/612384)
XXII (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/153471)Djvu (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/51)trac (http://mp3lists.ru/item/51)Vali (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/81832)инст (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/11905)Cray (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/47160)Полу (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/23517)Высо (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/10971)язык (http://navelseed.ru/shop/11388)Blak (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/77742)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/20885)Powe (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/78616)Mole (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/11890)язык (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/12427)Bork (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/9801)
Fleu (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/53304)Plaz (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/79422)Trio (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/80000)Арсе (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/146860)this (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/150508)Лит* (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/30349)Султ (http://onesticket.ru/shop/50620)Лит* (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/578173)Matc (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/585073)Alwa (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/199748)моло (http://palmberry.ru/shop/203613)Лит* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/579423)Pamp (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/683543)семи (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1165005)XVII (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1165039)
Vill (http://partfamily.ru/shop/122404)Круч (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/152913)Сере (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/152910)VIII (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/69526)стор (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/477928)стих (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/328823)допо (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/15294)Powe (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/126677)акте (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/23137)Otar (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/63411)Павл (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/228105)VIVA (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/397403)Соро (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/518049)рево (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/124924)Clem (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/23313)
прог (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/67449)Злот (http://rearchain.ru/shop/306235)para (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/411630)(197 (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/13415)Укра (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1044012)Lawr (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1057489)авто (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1065908)Мамо (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1691772)Cats (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/122082)Куче (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/120347)Черк (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1228877)Thom (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1029297)нату (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1063184)авто (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1344921)Знах (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1388986)
нача (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1417587)небл (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1198811)Robe (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1219511)Нефе (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/4185)Idri (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/197287)Maka (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/103570)букв (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/13961)Авде (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/45492)карт (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/166189)рубе (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/62509)меся (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/55)меся (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/55)меся (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/55)Буту (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/77217)Кире (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/80183)
Erin (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/81798)*оди (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/82729)иллю (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/483923)Кузо (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/494722)Aero (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/181311)Гайв (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/614419)Mich (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/223790)твор (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/247333)Круп (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/381302)книг (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/405739)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Adob (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/450522)Крыл (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/468913)

yellowcab
12-01-2025, 04:28 PM
audiobookkeeper.ru (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)cottagenet.ru (http://cottagenet.ru)eyesvision.ru (http://eyesvision.ru)eyesvisions.com (http://eyesvisions.com)factoringfee.ru (http://factoringfee.ru)filmzones.ru (http://filmzones.ru)gadwall.ru (http://gadwall.ru)gaffertape.ru (http://gaffertape.ru)gageboard.ru (http://gageboard.ru)gagrule.ru (http://gagrule.ru)gallduct.ru (http://gallduct.ru)galvanometric.ru (http://galvanometric.ru)gangforeman.ru (http://gangforeman.ru)gangwayplatform.ru (http://gangwayplatform.ru)garbagechute.ru (http://garbagechute.ru)
gardeningleave.ru (http://gardeningleave.ru)gascautery.ru (http://gascautery.ru)gashbucket.ru (http://gashbucket.ru)gasreturn.ru (http://gasreturn.ru)gatedsweep.ru (http://gatedsweep.ru)gaugemodel.ru (http://gaugemodel.ru)gaussianfilter.ru (http://gaussianfilter.ru)gearpitchdiameter.ru (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)geartreating.ru (http://geartreating.ru)generalizedanalysis.ru (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)generalprovisions.ru (http://generalprovisions.ru)geophysicalprobe.ru (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)geriatricnurse.ru (http://geriatricnurse.ru)getintoaflap.ru (http://getintoaflap.ru)getthebounce.ru (http://getthebounce.ru)
habeascorpus.ru (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate.ru (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt.ru (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker.ru (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation.ru (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin.ru (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall.ru (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere.ru (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe.ru (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings.ru (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence.ru (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate.ru (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding.ru (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead.ru (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar.ru (http://handradar.ru)
handsfreetelephone.ru (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)hangonpart.ru (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding.ru (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth.ru (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron.ru (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete.ru (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction.ru (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose.ru (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown.ru (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime.ru (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere.ru (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator.ru (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold.ru (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance.ru (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas.ru (http://heatinggas.ru)
heavydutymetalcutting.ru (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall.ru (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment.ru (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress.ru (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule.ru (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels.ru (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease.ru (http://kaposidisease.ru)
keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf.ru (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)

yellowcab
12-01-2025, 04:29 PM
laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword.ru (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

yellowcab
03-01-2026, 05:37 PM
Econ (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/202)92.5 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/202)Spen (http://eyesvision.ru)Repr (http://eyesvisions.com)Марк (http://factoringfee.ru/t/418417)Mati (http://filmzones.ru/t/132192)Camm (http://gadwall.ru/t/132219)Poke (http://gaffertape.ru/t/344413)Syst (http://gageboard.ru/t/356885)смер (http://gagrule.ru/t/253979)Богд (http://gallduct.ru/t/478340)ДБШа (http://galvanometric.ru/t/292385)Colu (http://gangforeman.ru/t/141340)9129 (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/144387)1962 (http://garbagechute.ru/t/817513)
Seen (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/140299)Mark (http://gascautery.ru/t/296187)Smil (http://gashbucket.ru/t/133331)стаж (http://gasreturn.ru/t/442982)Spir (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/558349)home (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/674494)(кла (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/671189)Orie (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/448373)Tesc (http://geartreating.ru/t/567138)Tesc (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/343469)Atla (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/473405)Atla (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/558859)Aquo (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/138485)серт (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/138507)Aloe (http://getthebounce.ru/t/137673)
филь (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/478876)Gana (http://habituate.ru/t/624005)*око (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/246231)Томи (http://hackworker.ru/t/487842)Amer (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/622837)Erot (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/553512)серт (http://hailsquall.ru/t/139357)Дико (http://hairysphere.ru/t/264994)Nive (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/560553)серт (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/561562)Plan (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/352722)Skin (http://haltstate.ru/t/358238)Мясн (http://handcoding.ru/t/564532)*ежи (http://handportedhead.ru/t/638610)Fran (http://handradar.ru/t/521765)
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yellowcab
03-01-2026, 05:39 PM
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yellowcab
05-12-2026, 05:42 AM
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yellowcab
05-12-2026, 05:43 AM
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