Can you get comfy with it?

[rebel]

What if...

1. Gas is $7.99 a gallon.
2. Bread is $5.95 a loaf.
Everything is more than double what you're paying now and if you have a job, your taxes are 70%.
3. Perhaps you lost your job, the savings are almost gone and no employment is in sight. Double digit unemployment will be the base line.
4. You can't pay the mortgage, rent or taxes so, you're evicted.
5. Crime is a big problem.
6. Your child needs medical help and you can't get it.
7. Social security...gone.
8. 401...gone.
9. Pension...gone.

What's your long term game plan? I say long term because you know it won't be quick.

Well, say hello to the new world order of equality.

[Rick]

You're making some strong assumptions. Prices will certainly increase and it doesn't take much to imagine doubling or tripling. However, you have to remember that's just a natural part of the equation.

1960 prices.

In 1960 a new house cost $12,700.00 and by 1969 was $15,500.00

In 1960 the average income per year was $5,315.00 and by 1969 was $8,540.00

In 1960 a gallon of gas was 25 cents and by 1969 was 35 cents

In 1960 the average cost of new car was $2,600.00 and by 1969 was $3,270.00

Volkswagon beetle $1,769

Ford Mustang 2 door hardtop $2368

Misses Swinging Shifts Skirts $5.00

Oxford mens Shoes $12.95

Automatic Can Opener $8.88

Automatic Electric Blanket $9.94

Oranges 89 cents for 2 dozen

Oven ready Turkeys 39 cents per pound

Modern Walnut Bookcase $29.97

Coal $14.95 ton

So yeah. Call it the new world order or what ever you want. We've been living since we were born.

......nothing to see here folks......keep moving.

[crashdive123]

My long term game plan is just that, and as such, several of the items on the list would not be an issue. Obviously inflation would be. I may need to be more frugal than I am, but would come out on the other end.

[Rick]

Oooh. I just hope there's still toilet paper when you finally come out....on the other end.

[crashdive123]

Start planting the Mullein now.

[rebel]

I'm not here to doom and gloom. As one who has been to some crappy places in the world where folks survive everyday what is your plan? Or, put your head...(in the sand, to be nice).

[pocomoonskyeyes]

What if...

1. Gas is $7.99 a gallon.
2. Bread is $5.95 a loaf.
Everything is more than double what you're paying now and if you have a job, your taxes are 70%.
3. Perhaps you lost your job, the savings are almost gone and no employment is in sight. Double digit unemployment will be the base line.
4. You can't pay the mortgage, rent or taxes so, you're evicted.
5. Crime is a big problem.
6. Your child needs medical help and you can't get it.
7. Social security...gone.
8. 401...gone.
9. Pension...gone.

What's your long term game plan? I say long term because you know it won't be quick.

Well, say hello to the new world order of equality.

Been there done that. It's called being Homeless. I've made it before, I can again(even though I don't want to).

[rebel]

Been there done that. It's called being Homeless. I've made it before, I can again(even though I don't want to).

You did. Thank goodness. What if the number of homeless in that area were three or four times as many. Could the outcome have been the same?

[Ken]

What if...

your taxes are 70%.

That's the deal breaker. We've almost always seen some rate of inflation. However, the government like to milk us by percentages. Government isn't happy living with a fixed percentage of rising incomes. Nope. It wants to bleed every friggin cent it can squeeze from us until we're so broke we have to turn back to the government and beg for help from programs that our own tax dollars are paying for.

In another couple of years, I plan to ask the government to take my entire damned income, deduct all local, state, and federal taxes and mandates from it, and provide me with a damned one room shack with heat and electric, some food, and public transportation to my publically financed and rationed medical care when necessary, because I'll tell you, when you include all the mandates that government requires me to pay for AFTER TAXES I ain't far from that 70% figure NOW!

[Boker]

That's the deal breaker. We've almost always seen some rate of inflation. However, the government like to milk us by percentages. Government isn't happy living with a fixed percentage of rising incomes. Nope. It wants to bleed every friggin cent it can squeeze from us until we're so broke we have to turn back to the government and beg for help from programs that our own tax dollars are paying for.

In another couple of years, I plan to ask the government to take my entire damned income, deduct all local, state, and federal taxes and mandates from it, and provide me with a damned one room shack with heat and electric, some food, and public transportation to my publically financed and rationed medical care when necessary, because I'll tell you, when you include all the mandates that government requires me to pay for AFTER TAXES I ain't far from that 70% figure NOW!

Prison will provide all that, plus free cable if you can afford the TV.

[rebel]

That's the deal breaker. We've almost always seen some rate of inflation. However, the government like to milk us by percentages. Government isn't happy living with a fixed percentage of rising incomes. Nope. It wants to bleed every friggin cent it can squeeze from us until we're so broke we have to turn back to the government and beg for help from programs that our own tax dollars are paying for.

In another couple of years, I plan to ask the government to take my entire damned income, deduct all local, state, and federal taxes and mandates from it, and provide me with a damned one room shack with heat and electric, some food, and public transportation to my publically financed and rationed medical care when necessary, because I'll tell you, when you include all the mandates that government requires me to pay for AFTER TAXES I ain't far from that 70% figure NOW!

That's my point. We're not far from this! In the past two years I've lost my pension, taken a 40% pay cut, the 401 is barely bumping along, social security is bankrupt, taxes are going up, cost of living has doubled and maybe some crappy health care. If you think it wont happen to you or it's "the normal way of things (inflation and all)". Stand-by.

[Pal334]

Things are certainly changing, just take prudent (or as prudent as possible) actions to prepare for the future. "They ain't no free lunchs". I am postioning myself not to rely on government and outside sources (never will be able to do 100 %)The way I look at it, I can prepare as I indicated and live my life, or I can "doom and gloom" and not enjoy whatever I can today.

And exhort all that will listen to VOTE!!!!

[pocomoonskyeyes]

You did. Thank goodness. What if the number of homeless in that area were three or four times as many. Could the outcome have been the same?

When I was homeless it was totally urban. I now live in a rural area. What I would be doing now would be more what we call wilderness survival. It should be easier for me not harder. Not many around here know what we know. For that matter not many anywhere know what we know. Same answer. Homelessness is really about adapting to survive. I may not be "Comfy" but I can and will survive.

[Ken]

We NEED a Constitutional Amendment limiting all federal taxes combined (Income, FICA, Medical) to 10%.

NO FEDERAL MANDATES requiring anyone to purchase anything. Sorry, but I am NOT inclined to substitute some jack@ss politicians judgment for my own when it comes to deciding what I need.

The feds should concentrate on national defense, law enforcement, transportation, certain environmental protection issues, food safety, and the like. It should mind its own F'n business and stay out of matters involving of education, studying cow farts, redistribution of wealth, deciding on who my doctor should be, and bailing out foreign countries and foreign corporations.

And when I see a homeless person here, it pisses me off to realize that MY tax dollars are being used to build schools in some foreign place with a name I can't even pronounce. Maybe if our government wasn't bleeding us dry, we could afford to contribute more to organizations like the Salvation Army that actually spend the donations they receive for their intended uses.

TERM LIMITS AND ELECTED JUDGES NOW!!!!!

[rebel]

We NEED a Constitutional Amendment limiting all federal taxes combined (Income, FICA, Medical) to 10%.

NO FEDERAL MANDATES requiring anyone to purchase anything. Sorry, but I am NOT inclined to substitute some jack@ss politicians judgment for my own when it comes to deciding what I need.

The feds should concentrate on national defense, law enforcement, transportation, certain environmental protection issues, food safety, and the like. It should mind its own F'n business and stay out of matters involving of education, studying cow farts, redistribution of wealth, deciding on who my doctor should be, and bailing out foreign countries and foreign corporations.

And when I see a homeless person here, it pisses me off to realize that MY tax dollars are being used to build schools in some foreign place with a name I can't even pronounce. Maybe if our government wasn't bleeding us dry, we could afford to contribute more to organizations like the Salvation Army that actually spend the donations they receive for their intended uses.

TERM LIMITS AND ELECTED JUDGES NOW!!!!!

I agree 100%!

Social security started at 1%. Now it's like 15% and bankrupt. Get the torches.

[Rick]

Okay, you asked. I'll take each point one at a time:

1. Gas is $7.99 a gallon.
No one has a crystal ball but that's probably on the high side of pricing. $4-5 per gallon is the near term is probably realistic. I would think (hope) that $8 a gallon is some years down the road. But there are plenty of countries that are and have been paying those prices from quite some time. You have to remember that those kind of prices in the near term will stagnate growth and the government probably won't let that happen....short term.

2. Bread is $5.95 a loaf.

Same kind of a thing here. Food prices in generally will continue to rise but not at the rate of carbon based fuels. We're fortunate here that we have a lot of land in land bank that can be put into production should a short fall arise. We had all better get on board with genetically engineered food because that's the only way we'll feed a growing population.

Everything is more than double what you're paying now and if you have a job, your taxes are 70%.

Not in the near term and I think you were being factitious about 70% anyway. The big, really big, bear in the path right now is health care. If it passes then taxation HAS to increase. They can say what the want but it's the only way to pay for it. If it doesn't pass then we may see taxation remain somewhat steady for a while.

3. Perhaps you lost your job, the savings are almost gone and no employment is in sight. Double digit unemployment will be the base line.

All a real possibility. Double digit unemployment is a reality. It just turned 10.2% last Friday. But remember, we're on the back side of one of the deepest recessions in many a moon so those numbers will go back down. Jobs will have to pick up as well as the economy picks up. One of the best key indicators of the market place is trucking. Truck lines are generally the first to be impacted when the economy falters and the first to recover when the economy begins to turn around. If you monitor that activity then you know that the last few weeks have seen a substantial improvement in the trucking industry because manufacturing and electronics have all picked up substantially.

4. You can't pay the mortgage, rent or taxes so, you're evicted.

Well, there are ways around that. A lot has to do with the type of structure you set up to begin with. That is the type of loan you took out, amount of debt you incurred, the size of the home, etc. You can control a LOT of that on the front end. If you handle your finances then you should have a reserve fund set aside. Even without all of that there are ways to avoid being evicted like paying only the interest on the loan until you can get back on your feet. It's amazing how many people do NOT go in and set down with their lien holder and discuss some alternative. The lien holder doesn't want you to default any more than you want to. Sometimes just talking with them will net results.

5. Crime is a big problem.

Yep. It is now and it will continue to grow. I think of it as a social cancer. Fewer and fewer want to take responsibility for their actions and more and more are abandoning or never had a moral compass.

6. Your child needs medical help and you can't get it.

This one has been around for far too many folks for way too long. There have always been families that fall into this well and the current plan is not the fix for it.

7. Social security...gone.

I don't think this will happen only because I don't think there is a politician alive that would vote to dismantle SS. I think you'll see a lot of changes in the structure but it will continue to be there for perpetuity.

8. 401...gone.

Part of this is the fault of the investor because they fail to diversify their portfolio. The good folks at Woldcom that went from gazillions to zip did so because they held Worldcom stock. Only Worldcom or predominantly Worldcom stock. You do stupid things you should expect to get trounced.

9. Pension...gone.

Yes and No. Pensions are protected by the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation should a company fail. Pension benefits at normal retirement as well as some early retirement benefits, annuity benefits for survivors and some disability benefits are all covered.

Of course, a company can stop providing pension benefits any time they want and many certainly have.

No my head isn't in the sand. You have to sit down and make short term, mid term and long term plans and adjust those plans in accordance with economic conditions. You can not allow yourself to be in a position that you do not control. A position that is controlled by someone else. If it isn't working as you outlined above then it might be time to think about something else that WILL work. Only you can determine what that is because only you can determine what is right for you.

[Rick]

Social security started at 1%. Now it's like 15% and bankrupt.

You also have to remember that what that 1% paid for in 1935 is a far cry from what is being paid out today.

[Rick]

Hey Rebel. Just my opinion on this stuff. Didn't mean to run you off...........I was ready for a good jousting match.

[Boker]

Prison will provide all that, plus free cable if you can afford the TV.

I think Boker makes a pretty good point!!

[rebel]

Okay, you asked. I'll take each point one at a time:

1. Gas is $7.99 a gallon.
No one has a crystal ball but that's probably on the high side of pricing. $4-5 per gallon is the near term is probably realistic. I would think (hope) that $8 a gallon is some years down the road. But there are plenty of countries that are and have been paying those prices from quite some time. You have to remember that those kind of prices in the near term will stagnate growth and the government probably won't let that happen....short term.

2. Bread is $5.95 a loaf.

Same kind of a thing here. Food prices in generally will continue to rise but not at the rate of carbon based fuels. We're fortunate here that we have a lot of land in land bank that can be put into production should a short fall arise. We had all better get on board with genetically engineered food because that's the only way we'll feed a growing population.

Everything is more than double what you're paying now and if you have a job, your taxes are 70%.

Not in the near term and I think you were being factitious about 70% anyway. The big, really big, bear in the path right now is health care. If it passes then taxation HAS to increase. They can say what the want but it's the only way to pay for it. If it doesn't pass then we may see taxation remain somewhat steady for a while.

3. Perhaps you lost your job, the savings are almost gone and no employment is in sight. Double digit unemployment will be the base line.

All a real possibility. Double digit unemployment is a reality. It just turned 10.2% last Friday. But remember, we're on the back side of one of the deepest recessions in many a moon so those numbers will go back down. Jobs will have to pick up as well as the economy picks up. One of the best key indicators of the market place is trucking. Truck lines are generally the first to be impacted when the economy falters and the first to recover when the economy begins to turn around. If you monitor that activity then you know that the last few weeks have seen a substantial improvement in the trucking industry because manufacturing and electronics have all picked up substantially.

4. You can't pay the mortgage, rent or taxes so, you're evicted.

Well, there are ways around that. A lot has to do with the type of structure you set up to begin with. That is the type of loan you took out, amount of debt you incurred, the size of the home, etc. You can control a LOT of that on the front end. If you handle your finances then you should have a reserve fund set aside. Even without all of that there are ways to avoid being evicted like paying only the interest on the loan until you can get back on your feet. It's amazing how many people do NOT go in and set down with their lien holder and discuss some alternative. The lien holder doesn't want you to default any more than you want to. Sometimes just talking with them will net results.

5. Crime is a big problem.

Yep. It is now and it will continue to grow. I think of it as a social cancer. Fewer and fewer want to take responsibility for their actions and more and more are abandoning or never had a moral compass.

6. Your child needs medical help and you can't get it.

This one has been around for far too many folks for way too long. There have always been families that fall into this well and the current plan is not the fix for it.

7. Social security...gone.

I don't think this will happen only because I don't think there is a politician alive that would vote to dismantle SS. I think you'll see a lot of changes in the structure but it will continue to be there for perpetuity.

8. 401...gone.

Part of this is the fault of the investor because they fail to diversify their portfolio. The good folks at Woldcom that went from gazillions to zip did so because they held Worldcom stock. Only Worldcom or predominantly Worldcom stock. You do stupid things you should expect to get trounced.

9. Pension...gone.

Yes and No. Pensions are protected by the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation should a company fail. Pension benefits at normal retirement as well as some early retirement benefits, annuity benefits for survivors and some disability benefits are all covered.

Of course, a company can stop providing pension benefits any time they want and many certainly have.

No my head isn't in the sand. You have to sit down and make short term, mid term and long term plans and adjust those plans in accordance with economic conditions. You can not allow yourself to be in a position that you do not control. A position that is controlled by someone else. If it isn't working as you outlined above then it might be time to think about something else that WILL work. Only you can determine what that is because only you can determine what is right for you.

I do appreciate your point of view.

Gas will continue to climb and so will everything else. Nothing is being done for it not to increase in price.

Food prices will also climb.

New Jersey residents are paying 65% in taxes.

Unemployment can be twice the reported. Maybe, 20%+.

Eviction...money talks and BS walks. The BS could work short term.

SS, yea the name will be around. You'll get the same no matter what you paid into the fund.

401, I don't know of anyone who didn't loose no matter what their investments were.

Pension, PBGC max is 24k. That's before taxes.

Why hide the truth?