Barrel length and other misc. firearm questions...
Now for something completely different...
What determines barrel length on a long gun?
I know about rifling but there were long guns way before the advent (around the time of the Civil War I think) of rifling.
Even without the rifling, does a long barrel improve accuracy? Or is there some other factor / reason for it?
Also - what does sawing off the barrel of a shotgun do? Is that illegal? Why?
Just curious.
Read my blogs on guns and shooting.
There is no greater solitude than that of the Tracker in the forest, unless perhaps it's that of the wolf in the wilderness.
I'm looking... searched on guns... see several from you but none that obviously address the questions. Browsing through your blogs...
Here ya go.
Rifling refers to helix-shaped pattern of grooves and lands that have been formed into the barrel of a firearm. It is the means by which a firearm imparts a spin to a projectile around its long axis, to gyroscopically stabilize it to improve accuracy and stability.
Twist rate
For best performance, the barrel should have a twist rate sufficient to stabilize any bullet that it would reasonably be expected to fire, but not significantly more. Large diameter bullets provide more stability, as the larger radius provides more gyroscopic inertia, while long bullets are harder to stabilize, as they tend to be very backheavy and the aerodynamic pressures have a longer "lever" to act on. The slowest twist rates are found in muzzleloading firearms meant to fire a round ball; these will have twist rates as low as 1 in 60 inches (1,500 mm), or slightly longer, although for a typical multi-purpose muzzleloader rifle, a twist rate of 1 in 48 inches (1,200 mm) is very common. The M16A2 rifle, which is designed to fire the SS109 bullet, has a 1 in 7-inch (180 mm) twist. Civilian AR-15 rifles are commonly found with 1 in 12 inches (300 mm) for older rifles and 1 in 9 inches (230 mm) for most newer rifles, although some are made with 1 in 7 inches (180 mm) twist rates, the same as used for the M16. Rifles, which generally fire longer, smaller diameter bullets, will in general have higher twist rates than handguns, which fire shorter, larger diameter bullets.
There is no greater solitude than that of the Tracker in the forest, unless perhaps it's that of the wolf in the wilderness.
The term Long Rifle (or alternately Pennsylvania or "Kentucky" Rifle) refers to a type of rifle used in early America by both military and civilians. It is characterized by an unusually long barrel, sometimes over four feet in length, which is felt to be in large part a unique development of American rifles, and is almost never seen in European rifles of the period.
The longrifle developed on the American frontier in the period beginning in the 1740s, and continued its development technically and artistically until it passed out of fashion in the mid to late 19th century. It is interesting to note, however, that strong pockets of longrifle use and manufacture continued in the Appalachian Mountains of Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, and North Carolina, well into the 20th century, as a practical and efficient firearm for these still quite rural segments of the nation. Longrifles could be made entirely by hand, in a frontier setting, which could not be said of modern breechloaders such as the Winchester model 1885 single shot rifle.
Although experts argue the fine points of origin and lineage, it is accepted that the longrifle was the product of German gunsmiths who immigrated to new settlements in Pennsylvania and Virginia as early as the 1740s. Initially the weapon of choice on the frontier was the smooth bore musket or trade gun, built in the thousands in factories in England and France and shipped to the Colonies for purchase. But gradually a group of solitary frontiersmen, Indian fighters, and professional market hunters began using more and more rifles due to their longer effective range. While the smooth bore musket had an effective range of less than 100 yards, a good rifleman could hit a man size target out to three hundred yards or more. There was a price for this accuracy, however. The long rifle required a full minute to load, longer than a musket.
Artistically, the longrifle is known for its often ornate decoration. The decorative arts of furniture making, painting, silver smithing, gunsmithing, etc. all took their style cues from the prevailing trends of the day, and as in most things the fashion was set in Paris. Baroque and later rococo motifs found their way into all the decorative arts, and can be seen in the acanthus leaf scroll work so common on 18th century furniture and silver. The American frontier, as remote as it was, was not divorced from this trend, and the best American longrifles have art applied to them that is fully the equal of any Philadelphia cabinet or silver shop. Many people also would give their rifles names such as "Killdeer", the rifle of Natty Bumppo from the Leatherstocking Tales.
Originally rather plain, it did not take long for the longrifle to be a source of pride for its owner, and by the 1770s every surface of the rifle could be used as a canvas for excellent applied art. Gunsmiths were recognized as the preeminent craftsmen of their day for they, more than any other tradesmen, had to be expert in all the materials of the time. An accomplished gunsmith had to be a skilled blacksmith, whitesmith, wood carver, brass and silver founder, engraver, and wood finisher. While the European shops of the day had significant specialization of the trades, leading to many separate tradesmen building each rifle, the frontier had no such luxury, and quite often only one gunmaker, aided by perhaps a lone apprentice would make the entire rifle, a process almost unheard of in 18th century trade practice.
The longrifle is said by modern experts to have a range of 80 to 100 yards. This figure is meant for the normal or novice user. A trained, experienced shooter who knows how to take variables into account such as (gunpowder) load, windage, drop, etc. can easily extend the medium range of the long rifle to 400-500 yards. In 1778 at the siege of Boonesborough, Kentucky, one of the officers of the combined British/Shawnee assault force was hiding behind a tree. He stuck his head out from behind the tree and was instantly killed by a ball to the forehead fired by none other than the legendary Daniel Boone. This shot was later confirmed by witnesses on both sides and the distance measured at 250 yards. Hitting a target so precisely at that range would probably make the Kentucky Rifle comparable in total effective (long) range with the British Baker rifle at 700 to 800 yards.
There is no greater solitude than that of the Tracker in the forest, unless perhaps it's that of the wolf in the wilderness.
Yeah... I am generally aware of the whys of rifling but why the long barrel particularly before rifling?
Any insights into sawed off shotguns? What does that do?
Long Gun: Guess I was misusing the term to refer generically to any long barreled type gun.
Interesting info...
Last edited by Teotwawki; 06-11-2008 at 04:23 PM. Reason: add details
The long barrel before rifling was for accuracy.
Sawing a barrel off on shotgun gives a larger spread pattern to the shot. But are illegal in all 50 states, the law says the barrel must be 18 inches here in Ohio but differs according to states.
Why so many questions on guns? Just wondering.
There is no greater solitude than that of the Tracker in the forest, unless perhaps it's that of the wolf in the wilderness.
To determine the barrel length of a rifle or a shotgun.......with the action closed (Does not matter what type). stick a rod down the barrel till it stops at.....mark the rod even with the end of the barrel.......use tape, magic marker, whatever. That will be the rifle barrel length. The chamber is part of the barrel.
In short: you can not turn a rifle or a shotgun into a pistol, even if the same company makes the same firearm available as a pistol.
In America rifle or shotgun may not be less than 26" overall length. rifle barrel must be atleast 16" and shotgun barrels must be atleast 18".
However, for a fee of two hundred dollars you can have shorter.
It is easier if you PM me what you want to do.
It is much cheaper to buy an AR-15 pistol than to make one.
Hopeak he's a minor.
There is no greater solitude than that of the Tracker in the forest, unless perhaps it's that of the wolf in the wilderness.
Note: If for any reason, any reason you are in possession of a illegal firearm, for example you misunderstood and cut the barrel to short, PM me there are some cures, or proper disposal methods.
Nice disclaimer.
Such as giving it to me
There is no greater solitude than that of the Tracker in the forest, unless perhaps it's that of the wolf in the wilderness.
Did not know that......Originally Posted by Beowulf65
Really just curious. Caught a History Channel program on the Civil War and there was a bit on the difference that rifling made in range and accuracy and how many deaths were caused by outmoded warfare methods. You know: march shoulder to shoulder into the opposing forces.
It just got me wondering about the design of "long guns."
Handguns: I know next to nothing about. I've fired a few out target shooting with a friend and that is about the limit of my experience knowledge. Probably should go on my list of things to learn about / get experienced with.
May sound wimpy but I'd want to find a good safety course.
Minor or not, what I said has to do with the firearm.
OK - sometimes my posts may be a bit juvenile but what makes you think I am a minor?
I don't care to disclose personal info on the Internet but I assure you it has been a while since I was a minor.
I guess if I used a wolf as my avatar it might make me seem older / closer to my real world age.
[QUOTE=Teotwawki;55217]Really just curious. Caught a History Channel program on the Civil War and there was a bit on the difference that rifling made in range and accuracy and how many deaths were caused by outmoded warfare methods. You know: march shoulder to shoulder into the opposing forces.
It just got me wondering about the design of "long guns."
There are only a few thousand unrelated factors that effect rifle accuracy.
Hopeak: what you said was great, I was just informing because I had forgot we did nothing wrong.
Teot: Nothing wrong with a gun course. They are a good idea for anyone wanting to learn and most courses even have advanced classes to learn more.
There is no greater solitude than that of the Tracker in the forest, unless perhaps it's that of the wolf in the wilderness.
Meant no offense, thought you were my bad. The avatar has nothing to do with it.
There is no greater solitude than that of the Tracker in the forest, unless perhaps it's that of the wolf in the wilderness.
No offense taken... must have been this:
"Smell Mop Who?"
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