gun for backpacking

kid · 01-28-2008, 02:21 PM

Me and some buddies are going to go and do thwe tahoe-yosemite trail either this summer or next. Since it iis a long trip, and is through bear country we want to have a couple of guns; but since weight is an issue we haven't found a gun that is light enough and has a heavy enough caliber to defend from bears. Any one have any ideas??

RobertRogers · 01-28-2008, 02:28 PM

How about carrying pepper spray? The problem with guns is that A) They are dangerous for the inexperienced B) A shot may serve to enrage a bear rather than stop it C) it may be difficult to deploy a gun in time if the event happens unexpectedly D) Park officials, and others, may frown upon heavy artillery E) you may hesitate to use a gun on a person or animal (its one thing to talk about doing it, quite another to actually do it). However with spray, since it is not deadly force, you are more likely to use it F) the list goes on and on.

There is little need to be afraid of bears in the first place - you are safer in the wilderness than you are walking down the street of any city. This is a fact.

Ole WV Coot · 01-28-2008, 03:40 PM

Skip the firearms completely. If you have to ask you aren't experienced enough to hit with a heavy handgun, rifle is too obvious and neither is a guarantee of a stopping hit. Buy the spray and everyone keep it on them at all times but don't depend on it. Caution and reading a little about the animals to learn their habits is #1, but don't depend on any animal or person for that matter doing anything predictable except the Ranger who will frown on your artillery. Just my opinion and wasn't trying to insult your intelligence.

Rick · 01-28-2008, 05:41 PM

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used......

Leave the armor at home.

You may want to read this post:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...=carrying+park

Beowulf65 · 01-28-2008, 06:31 PM

Most on here know I'm a cop no big secret, so here is a little on guns and backpacking in a park as posted in another thread. A gun is not kit for survival but since you asked and may be to lazy to follow Rick's link here ya go."I want to carry a firearm for protection." Firearm advocates have used this statement excessively as justification for carrying firearms in national park activities. The reality of daily life, however, is that crime incidents in state and national parks in the United States generally, are extremely low. Additionally, when serious and violent crimes have been recorded, most incidents are directed at park employees, namely maintenance staff and peace officers, and not park patrons. Crimes indexed by the Park Officials Incidence Based Reporting (IBR) data reveals that the most frequently occurring crimes within State and National parks tend to be drug possession, petit or grand larcenies, and miscellaneous misdemeanors, usually in the camping areas. Rarely do these categories include violent crimes and/or assaults. The argument promulgated for self-protection by firearm proponents is not supported by available data collected thus far within the State and National Parks. All of this data is readily available to the public, and accordingly, the assertion that it is necessary to carry weapons on public property is effectively rendered moot, since data that has been collected by federal and state park law enforcement does not support a need for self-protection on state lands whatsoever. There does exist, however, information which links together two very important observations:The aggregate rate of injuries and accidents increases when persons other then law enforcement officers carry concealed or non-concealed firearms and
The aggregate rate of crime increases when persons other than law enforcement officers carry concealed or non-concealed firearms.
Statistics collected by park law enforcement and social organizations and scientists around the nation suggests that the higher prevalence of weapons result in higher accident and injury rates, both to the owner-operator of the firearm, and to bystanders. Carry the bear spray as suggested a good one used by a friend of mine (Medicine Wolf on this forum) in Montana who is a Ranger in the middle of bumblefook nowhere is- Counter Assault Bear Deterrent.
Bushwacker Backpack & Supply Co. Inc.
120 Industrial Court
Kalispell, MT 59901
Attention: Mr. Pride Johnson
Tel: 1-800-695-3394
E-Mail: original@counterassault.com
Website: counterassault.com

Bear Spray plays an important part in reducing attacks during human encounters with bears. It is an effective deterrent of North American bears, but it can be adversely affected by wind, rain, temperature, and even how close the bear is when it charges. When purchasing bear spray it is important to remember that personal defense sprays are not the same as bear spray. Although both types of sprays are made from oleoresin capsicum, it is the capsaicin and related capsaicinoids that are the active ingredients in bear spray. Therefore, if you see claims on a large can that state 10%, 20% or 30% oleoresin capsicum, it is a personal defense spray, not bear spray.
The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulates bear sprays pursuant to an Act of Congress. Look for the EPA registration and establishment numbers, usually found at the bottom of the front label; only bear sprays will have this information. Also, bear spray labels will clearly refer to bears, and state it is a bear deterrent, bear repellent, or for stopping attacking bears.
Currently the EPA requires that the concentration of Capsaicin and related capsaicinoids range between 1 and 2.0%. The variance in potency within this range is negligible, and all will affect the eyes, nose, throat and lungs of a bear. The minimum size can the EPA will register is 7.9 ounces, or 225 grams.

Just some food for thought.
Beo,

Rick · 01-28-2008, 07:44 PM

Beo, truly an excellent post.

And don't dink around with the bear spray, either. A friend of mine thought it would be cute to squirt a bit up in the air. He did. A breeze caught it and it landed on another buddy behind us. It was not a pretty scene.

canid · 01-28-2008, 09:12 PM

when i was growing up in juneau there was a tourist who had bought some bear spray for a hike. he ended up in the ER because he thought it was used like insect repellant. according to my mother; true story.

Rick · 01-28-2008, 09:14 PM

That's where my buddy wound up. On O2 and getting his eyes rinsed. The guy that sprayed the stuff laid low for a couple of weeks till things cooled down.

Beowulf65 · 01-28-2008, 09:21 PM

I hope by no means does anyone think I don't support the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. I do whole heartedly, but I don't think one is needed in a National Park for hiking, the spray is much better and won't get you in trouble. I am an avid hunter with my Long Bow and Flintlock and carry off duty in case I run into some Johnny Butterbut I have locked up and he wants to start some bulljunk. I even do Starvation Treks and Canoe Treks with my flinter but we always get the permission from the needed local or federal government to do this.
Anyhow, just letting ya know I support the RIGHT TO KEEP & BEAR ARMS, (but please if ya got back fat on your arms wear sleeves

Rick · 01-28-2008, 09:25 PM

Dude, there is something seriously wrong with you (wickedly funny, though).

corndog-44 · 01-28-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Beo, truly an excellent post.

And don't dink around with the bear spray, either. A friend of mine thought it would be cute to squirt a bit up in the air. He did. A breeze caught it and it landed on another buddy behind us. It was not a pretty scene.

That would be my luck, Rick. The wind would be blowing from my back when I aim the spray at the bear and just as I sprayed the wind would change direction and blow from behind the bear and towards me

. Maybe it would be better while in bear country if I got a pole and made a spear out of it and sit at the base of a big tree with the butt end of the spear propped against the base of the tree and tell the bear, "Come on you ******come and get it!!

Rick · 01-28-2008, 09:28 PM

There was this awful moment when it was just sooooo funny. The minute that spray hit him in the face. Then there was this quick realization that he was in real trouble. I think he would have killed at that moment if he had the capacity. He still doesn't find it funny and it's not a point ever brought up in his presence.

Beowulf65 · 01-28-2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog-44

That would be my luck, Rick. The wind would be blowing from my back when I aim the spray at the bear and just as I sprayed the wind would change direction and blow from behind the bear and towards me

. Maybe it would be better while in bear country if I got a pole and made a spear out of it and sit at the base of a big tree with the butt end of the spear propped against the base of the tree and tell the bear, "Come on you ******come and get it!!

Or grease yourself in bacon fat and run naked through the woods, end result will be the same, Bear leaves with a full belly

Rick · 01-28-2008, 09:33 PM

See? That there is kinky I don't care who you are. Are you chasin' the bear or is he chasin' you? Kinky, kinky, kinky.

trax · 01-28-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

See? That there is kinky I don't care who you are. Are you chasin' the bear or is he chasin' you? Kinky, kinky, kinky.

that's just sad, I think you should go hover over the underlined red letters in the other post.....

Beowulf65 · 01-28-2008, 09:40 PM

what if ya took your buddy's bear spray and replaced it with that gag Bullsh** spray and he used it on a bear

lol...

corndog-44 · 01-28-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf65

Or grease yourself in bacon fat and run naked through the woods, end result will be the same, Bear leaves with a full belly

Hey thanks Beo. Never thought about getting naked in front of a hungry bear...I can see the look on his face

"Holy crap...I ain't eat'n that!!", he says.

Rick · 01-28-2008, 09:44 PM

I know a mechanic that filled an old fire extinguisher with kerosene and put it back in one of the trucks. A couple of months went by and the driver ran up behind another truck that had a wheel bearing on fire. He grabbed that extinguisher, ran up and gave the wheel bearing a good spritz. The flames jumped up quite bit. He sprayed it again and the flames just a bit more. The other driver looked at him then at the extinguisher and told him, "I don't know what the hell's inside that extinguisher but I'll pay good money if you don't use it anymore." The mechanic got fired over the deal but it was pretty funny.

Sarge47 · 01-28-2008, 11:11 PM

Okay, leave the howitzer at home; in some places it can be illegal to kill a bear even to save your life. Get yourself a nice long walking staff and nail a strap with sleigh bells or small cowbells to it so that it makes a lot of noise. You and your hiking buddy (ies) dialouge back & forth real loud. Bears usually want to avoid human confrontation. If one sees you and doesn't run off and charges, crouch down, put your head between your legs and kiss your tush goodbye!

Tony uk · 01-28-2008, 11:32 PM

If it is legal where you live you could try and use a tazer i think, hopefully make it go away

01-28-2008, 02:28 PM	#2
RobertRogers Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 608	How about carrying pepper spray? The problem with guns is that A) They are dangerous for the inexperienced B) A shot may serve to enrage a bear rather than stop it C) it may be difficult to deploy a gun in time if the event happens unexpectedly D) Park officials, and others, may frown upon heavy artillery E) you may hesitate to use a gun on a person or animal (its one thing to talk about doing it, quite another to actually do it). However with spray, since it is not deadly force, you are more likely to use it F) the list goes on and on. There is little need to be afraid of bears in the first place - you are safer in the wilderness than you are walking down the street of any city. This is a fact. __________________ Earth - love it or leave it. FireSteel.com

01-28-2008, 05:41 PM	#4
Rick Administrator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 28,000 Blog Entries: 2	You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used...... Leave the armor at home. You may want to read this post: http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...=carrying+park __________________ Safe Zone LLC "The Most Trusted Name in Outdoor Gear". Check out our free Family Disaster Plan The Mora Bushcraft Series is now available! Knot Making and Wild Edible Plants cards are in!

01-28-2008, 06:31 PM	#5
Beowulf65 PMC/Deputy Sheriff Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dunlap's Station, Ohio Posts: 3,916 Blog Entries: 57	Don't take gun into State Park Most on here know I'm a cop no big secret, so here is a little on guns and backpacking in a park as posted in another thread. A gun is not kit for survival but since you asked and may be to lazy to follow Rick's link here ya go."I want to carry a firearm for protection." Firearm advocates have used this statement excessively as justification for carrying firearms in national park activities. The reality of daily life, however, is that crime incidents in state and national parks in the United States generally, are extremely low. Additionally, when serious and violent crimes have been recorded, most incidents are directed at park employees, namely maintenance staff and peace officers, and not park patrons. Crimes indexed by the Park Officials Incidence Based Reporting (IBR) data reveals that the most frequently occurring crimes within State and National parks tend to be drug possession, petit or grand larcenies, and miscellaneous misdemeanors, usually in the camping areas. Rarely do these categories include violent crimes and/or assaults. The argument promulgated for self-protection by firearm proponents is not supported by available data collected thus far within the State and National Parks. All of this data is readily available to the public, and accordingly, the assertion that it is necessary to carry weapons on public property is effectively rendered moot, since data that has been collected by federal and state park law enforcement does not support a need for self-protection on state lands whatsoever. There does exist, however, information which links together two very important observations:The aggregate rate of injuries and accidents increases when persons other then law enforcement officers carry concealed or non-concealed firearms and The aggregate rate of crime increases when persons other than law enforcement officers carry concealed or non-concealed firearms. Statistics collected by park law enforcement and social organizations and scientists around the nation suggests that the higher prevalence of weapons result in higher accident and injury rates, both to the owner-operator of the firearm, and to bystanders. Carry the bear spray as suggested a good one used by a friend of mine (Medicine Wolf on this forum) in Montana who is a Ranger in the middle of bumblefook nowhere is- Counter Assault Bear Deterrent. Bushwacker Backpack & Supply Co. Inc. 120 Industrial Court Kalispell, MT 59901 Attention: Mr. Pride Johnson Tel: 1-800-695-3394 E-Mail: original@counterassault.com Website: counterassault.com Bear Spray plays an important part in reducing attacks during human encounters with bears. It is an effective deterrent of North American bears, but it can be adversely affected by wind, rain, temperature, and even how close the bear is when it charges. When purchasing bear spray it is important to remember that personal defense sprays are not the same as bear spray. Although both types of sprays are made from oleoresin capsicum, it is the capsaicin and related capsaicinoids that are the active ingredients in bear spray. Therefore, if you see claims on a large can that state 10%, 20% or 30% oleoresin capsicum, it is a personal defense spray, not bear spray. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulates bear sprays pursuant to an Act of Congress. Look for the EPA registration and establishment numbers, usually found at the bottom of the front label; only bear sprays will have this information. Also, bear spray labels will clearly refer to bears, and state it is a bear deterrent, bear repellent, or for stopping attacking bears. Currently the EPA requires that the concentration of Capsaicin and related capsaicinoids range between 1 and 2.0%. The variance in potency within this range is negligible, and all will affect the eyes, nose, throat and lungs of a bear. The minimum size can the EPA will register is 7.9 ounces, or 225 grams. Just some food for thought. Beo, __________________ Do or Do Not, there is no try. Jedi Master Yoda Last edited by Beowulf65; 01-28-2008 at 06:54 PM.

01-28-2008, 07:44 PM	#6
Rick Administrator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 28,000 Blog Entries: 2	Beo, truly an excellent post. And don't dink around with the bear spray, either. A friend of mine thought it would be cute to squirt a bit up in the air. He did. A breeze caught it and it landed on another buddy behind us. It was not a pretty scene. __________________ Safe Zone LLC "The Most Trusted Name in Outdoor Gear". Check out our free Family Disaster Plan The Mora Bushcraft Series is now available! Knot Making and Wild Edible Plants cards are in!

01-28-2008, 09:12 PM	#7
canid irregular meat sprocket Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central California Posts: 3,442	when i was growing up in juneau there was a tourist who had bought some bear spray for a hike. he ended up in the ER because he thought it was used like insect repellant. according to my mother; true story. __________________ I'm like a fine coffee; robust, bold and mountain grown. CanidArmory finally back to work on the site.

01-28-2008, 02:21 PM	#1
kid Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: california Posts: 20	gun for backpacking Me and some buddies are going to go and do thwe tahoe-yosemite trail either this summer or next. Since it iis a long trip, and is through bear country we want to have a couple of guns; but since weight is an issue we haven't found a gun that is light enough and has a heavy enough caliber to defend from bears. Any one have any ideas??

01-28-2008, 03:40 PM	#3
Ole WV Coot Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern WV , raised in Eastern KY up a holler Posts: 2,587	Skip the firearms completely. If you have to ask you aren't experienced enough to hit with a heavy handgun, rifle is too obvious and neither is a guarantee of a stopping hit. Buy the spray and everyone keep it on them at all times but don't depend on it. Caution and reading a little about the animals to learn their habits is #1, but don't depend on any animal or person for that matter doing anything predictable except the Ranger who will frown on your artillery. Just my opinion and wasn't trying to insult your intelligence.

01-28-2008, 09:14 PM	#8
Rick Administrator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 28,000 Blog Entries: 2	That's where my buddy wound up. On O2 and getting his eyes rinsed. The guy that sprayed the stuff laid low for a couple of weeks till things cooled down. __________________ Safe Zone LLC "The Most Trusted Name in Outdoor Gear". Check out our free Family Disaster Plan The Mora Bushcraft Series is now available! Knot Making and Wild Edible Plants cards are in!

01-28-2008, 09:21 PM	#9
Beowulf65 PMC/Deputy Sheriff Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dunlap's Station, Ohio Posts: 3,916 Blog Entries: 57	I hope by no means does anyone think I don't support the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. I do whole heartedly, but I don't think one is needed in a National Park for hiking, the spray is much better and won't get you in trouble. I am an avid hunter with my Long Bow and Flintlock and carry off duty in case I run into some Johnny Butterbut I have locked up and he wants to start some bulljunk. I even do Starvation Treks and Canoe Treks with my flinter but we always get the permission from the needed local or federal government to do this. Anyhow, just letting ya know I support the RIGHT TO KEEP & BEAR ARMS, (but please if ya got back fat on your arms wear sleeves __________________ Do or Do Not, there is no try. Jedi Master Yoda

01-28-2008, 09:25 PM	#10
Rick Administrator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 28,000 Blog Entries: 2	Dude, there is something seriously wrong with you (wickedly funny, though). __________________ Safe Zone LLC "The Most Trusted Name in Outdoor Gear". Check out our free Family Disaster Plan The Mora Bushcraft Series is now available! Knot Making and Wild Edible Plants cards are in!

01-28-2008, 09:28 PM	#12
Rick Administrator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 28,000 Blog Entries: 2	There was this awful moment when it was just sooooo funny. The minute that spray hit him in the face. Then there was this quick realization that he was in real trouble. I think he would have killed at that moment if he had the capacity. He still doesn't find it funny and it's not a point ever brought up in his presence. __________________ Safe Zone LLC "The Most Trusted Name in Outdoor Gear". Check out our free Family Disaster Plan The Mora Bushcraft Series is now available! Knot Making and Wild Edible Plants cards are in!

01-28-2008, 09:33 PM	#14
Rick Administrator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 28,000 Blog Entries: 2	See? That there is kinky I don't care who you are. Are you chasin' the bear or is he chasin' you? Kinky, kinky, kinky. __________________ Safe Zone LLC "The Most Trusted Name in Outdoor Gear". Check out our free Family Disaster Plan The Mora Bushcraft Series is now available! Knot Making and Wild Edible Plants cards are in!

01-28-2008, 09:40 PM	#16
Beowulf65 PMC/Deputy Sheriff Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dunlap's Station, Ohio Posts: 3,916 Blog Entries: 57	what if ya took your buddy's bear spray and replaced it with that gag Bullsh** spray and he used it on a bear lol... __________________ Do or Do Not, there is no try. Jedi Master Yoda

01-28-2008, 09:44 PM	#18
Rick Administrator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 28,000 Blog Entries: 2	I know a mechanic that filled an old fire extinguisher with kerosene and put it back in one of the trucks. A couple of months went by and the driver ran up behind another truck that had a wheel bearing on fire. He grabbed that extinguisher, ran up and gave the wheel bearing a good spritz. The flames jumped up quite bit. He sprayed it again and the flames just a bit more. The other driver looked at him then at the extinguisher and told him, "I don't know what the hell's inside that extinguisher but I'll pay good money if you don't use it anymore." The mechanic got fired over the deal but it was pretty funny. __________________ Safe Zone LLC "The Most Trusted Name in Outdoor Gear". Check out our free Family Disaster Plan The Mora Bushcraft Series is now available! Knot Making and Wild Edible Plants cards are in!

01-28-2008, 11:11 PM	#19
Sarge47 Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Western Illinois Posts: 5,671 Blog Entries: 19	Ahem! Okay, leave the howitzer at home; in some places it can be illegal to kill a bear even to save your life. Get yourself a nice long walking staff and nail a strap with sleigh bells or small cowbells to it so that it makes a lot of noise. You and your hiking buddy (ies) dialouge back & forth real loud. Bears usually want to avoid human confrontation. If one sees you and doesn't run off and charges, crouch down, put your head between your legs and kiss your tush goodbye! __________________ SARGE "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein Proud father of a US Marine....SEMPER FI! They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin

01-28-2008, 11:32 PM	#20
Tony uk Chinese Spanner Operator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,550 Blog Entries: 1	If it is legal where you live you could try and use a tazer i think, hopefully make it go away __________________ A wise person does at once, what a fool does at last. Both do the same thing; only at different times.