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Thread: Can we honestly talk about this........

  1. #41
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    As you know, we did for a long time. Or tried to. I will only speak for myself but it seemed the proper thing to do. If I walked into your camp I would try to be polite by greeting you, introducing myself and tell you a bit about myself. Same in a business setting. Same at church. Same at almost any place I can think of. Except here. For some reason the was an uproar about asking for the simplest of information to determine how we should respond when certain questions are asked. Need to know about that weapon? Are you 12 or 21? It makes a difference. So we stopped. Now we're too harsh on newbies.
    Oh goodness - I certainly won't forget that kerfuffle. The funny thing about that (although there wasn't much funny at the time) is that most of those that were protesting so vehemently against the practice have since left. I suppose that some people just like to complain - when you give them what they want and they have nothing left to complain about they search elsewhere for a place to complain.
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  2. #42
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batch View Post
    In my opinion, some people do come across as if they were almost waiting to yell a newbie that they didn't know anything. Sometimes you can predict who will respond with an almost critical attack.

    Rick and Crash I almost always agree with how the respond. Though sometimes I think that maybe even these two are conditioned to responding and it sometimes comes off like "really we have to type this response again."

    I was a newbie, member, senior member, moderator and administrator at several unrelated forums. One of the first things that you would see chimed in over and over was READ! READ! READ! Ad freakin nauseum. It added nothing to the content except post counts. I never liked the canned responses or the followers that post the same thing. You either add to the conversation or detract. Adding a little humor is adding to the conversation. But, if the humor is all at the OP's expense and he is a newbie is that really cool?

    Specifically, the response to newbies I like the most is the polite welcome with the request that they make an introduction and give us some details about themselves so that we can better tailor our responses towards your needs or how ever it was worded exactly. Then if you can't get down off your high horse to help them let one of the newer members who recently learned respond.
    Guilty on occasion as well. I've noticed that some folks get upset if nobody responds to one of their posts, which is sometimes the case if: (a) nobody has an answer, or (b) nobody has an interest. In the case of (a) I often respond with "somebody will have an answer" so that they don't feel like they are falling into the (b) category.
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  3. #43
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool Hmmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by BENESSE View Post
    Seems like the squeakiest wheels tend to influence change around here but a proper introduction is one of those things that should be non-negotiable. Like good manners.
    Maybe I'm a bit harsh, but not only do I agree with Ms. B. on this, I don't give any info without an intro. If the Newbie makes a fuss and refuses then I refuse to go any further and start to suspect that they are a troll. I also agree with those on here about the practice of calling out before you enter a camp. It shows respect and is the proper thing to do.

    As for coming on here and talking about going out into the woods to get away from society on a more permanent basis, Perhaps it could be handled differently. Some possible answers:

    1.) In my experienced opinion that is not a feasible option. Places like that no longer exist.

    2.) I don't know of any places like that but wish I did, I'd beat you to them!

    3.) Why do you feel this way?

    4.) I'm sorry, but without a proper intro I'm unable to answer your request.

    You get the idea.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member wholsomback's Avatar
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    Well I don't feel that a person should get uptight if someone asks them to clarify there question or opinion about anything.Also a thing to remember is this is a forum where some if not most of the things we discuss have an eliment of danger to them and could be life threatening.So to ask if someone is of a proper age and mental stability to discern this information should not be offensive but to a child.We might be constrewd as old fogies(plural)but we are only trying to keep others who have not built up the mental awareness of there own mortality from attempting something that could be life ending.Remember survival is what it says SURVIVAL! Under no circumstance should anyone attempt it just to see if they have the nack cause it could be your last attempt.In my time in the Marines I did the survival training courses because they were required to train us in how to survive on our own,in combat situations.Not for fun because nothing about survival is fun,when you get down to it it sucks.Yes I know there goes what would be constrewd as an EGO trip,NO it's just the truth.If your EGO can't get past that then here is the cold hard truth as was once told to me by a Gunny that lived through Guadal Canal.If you think you know it all you will suffer,if you think you've seen it all you will suffer and if you think you've done it all you will truly be dead by mourning.I don't stroke an ego I just have a little knowledge under certain perameters that I don't mind passing on to others,and learn from others on this site I have.If that makes me an egomaniac or a troll so be it.I don't get to post much cause life enters and takes up most of my time but those that have the maturity level of an adult will understand this post and those who don't will get all teary eyed and cry for hours.Now that's not a personal attack to anyone or directed at anyone,sometimes you have to ask questions before you answer them cause wouldn't you feel really bad if your post was used by a kid and it killed or maimed him/her.Now that's not Ego it's just the world we live in.I have 5 kids so you go figure where I come from.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by wholsomback View Post
    Well I don't feel that a person should get uptight if someone asks them to clarify there question or opinion about anything.Also a thing to remember is this is a forum where some if not most of the things we discuss have an eliment of danger to them and could be life threatening.So to ask if someone is of a proper age and mental stability to discern this information should not be offensive but to a child.We might be constrewd as old fogies(plural)but we are only trying to keep others who have not built up the mental awareness of there own mortality from attempting something that could be life ending.Remember survival is what it says SURVIVAL! Under no circumstance should anyone attempt it just to see if they have the nack cause it could be your last attempt.In my time in the Marines I did the survival training courses because they were required to train us in how to survive on our own,in combat situations.Not for fun because nothing about survival is fun,when you get down to it it sucks.Yes I know there goes what would be constrewd as an EGO trip,NO it's just the truth.If your EGO can't get past that then here is the cold hard truth as was once told to me by a Gunny that lived through Guadal Canal.If you think you know it all you will suffer,if you think you've seen it all you will suffer and if you think you've done it all you will truly be dead by mourning.I don't stroke an ego I just have a little knowledge under certain perameters that I don't mind passing on to others,and learn from others on this site I have.If that makes me an egomaniac or a troll so be it.I don't get to post much cause life enters and takes up most of my time but those that have the maturity level of an adult will understand this post and those who don't will get all teary eyed and cry for hours.Now that's not a personal attack to anyone or directed at anyone,sometimes you have to ask questions before you answer them cause wouldn't you feel really bad if your post was used by a kid and it killed or maimed him/her.Now that's not Ego it's just the world we live in.I have 5 kids so you go figure where I come from.

    WOW........I can't read that........Please use paragraphs an spaces after the end of a sentence.

  6. #46
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    .....or just hit "enter" once in a while....Thanks
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  7. #47
    Senior Member wholsomback's Avatar
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    See there you go.Encouragement.

  8. #48
    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Well if we don't change at all, everything is still OK. There are some great people on here that are very knowleagable on wilderness survival and this place is my favorite forum. And we do come down hard on people that want to go out and do stupid things. Do they deserve it, probably so, should we do that, probably not.
    Like I said before, I dont know where the majic line lies, but my thoughts are that is a new member posts a thread about going out and doing something absolutely stupid, we should try to tell them why they shouldn't do it, and be polite enough to not hurt their feelings. I think when we make them feel stupid, that is when they will decide to move on and no longer be a member of this forum.
    I have seen some of our members pretty much lambaste new members that really dont understand the wilderness, and I feel that we should be a little easier on those people. That would give us more time to get to know them, and convince them that they really do need to learn a lot of skills before they take off to the woods.
    After a person has been a member for a good while, they should be able to take criticism if needed, but I think new members should be given a little more consideration because they dont know us, and do not understand our individual personalities.
    And yes they should introduce themselves and follow the rules, but I think there are still a lot of people that are not familiar with forum rules, and really don't know the importance of them. I feel as a forum, we need to gain all of the new members we can because the more members we have, the more successful the forum becomes.
    We are not going to gain and keep new members when we give them the impression that we think they are stupid newbs, and communicate with them in a demeaning manner. And I know that happens on here!
    Yeah the trolls need to go, but I feel we do not give a lot of new members the chance to get used to our various personalities, and basically the temperment of the forum in general. I think in a lot of cases they think Oh Crappola, I just jumped into a hornets nest and I'm not going back.

  9. #49
    Senior Member wholsomback's Avatar
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    Just like my grandfather used to say"there is no stupid questions",but sometimes the answers you get from some don't mean too much.

    Let the salt roll off your back and keep going.

    Oh and by the way "did I use the enter button enough this time?'

    And I didn't think I was back in school,sometimes I get on a roll and forget literacy for those edjimacated ones.

  10. #50
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Outstanding, old eyes get tired....thanks man....ya got a lot of good things to say, just hard to read....LOL
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
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  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    Guilty on occasion as well. I've noticed that some folks get upset if nobody responds to one of their posts, which is sometimes the case if: (a) nobody has an answer, or (b) nobody has an interest. In the case of (a) I often respond with "somebody will have an answer" so that they don't feel like they are falling into the (b) category.
    To be clear my naming you and Rick was meant as a commendation not a condemnation. You two were outstanding in my mind in how you handled new members. There are way more good and helpful members here than not and that is the reason I check in here so frequently.

  12. #52
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Gothcha. Thanks.
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  13. #53
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I actually took it that way. Of course I take name calling as a compliment, too, so.......
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

  14. #54

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    As the Newbie, let me stick my foot in the bucket. I joined after reading and liking it. I recognize many names from elsewhere, some I haven't seen for years from other forums that have degraded badly.

    This forum seems to be about imparting knowledge, being responsible and being an adult. I like that.

    When Feelings become more important than Knowledge, the end result is coddling ignorance and it IS about ego. THEIRS. That's the way it became in the public schools, and that's the way many formerly good forums, and society at large are now. Must not offend anyone by providing knowledge lest you be accused of being judgemental, a Know it All, pot-stirrer or troll. No, they don't want knowledge, they don't want to learn, they want a group whinefest and be told how wonderful and smart they are.

    Those of us who teach want to teach, not coddle. Sure, we can build our information lower for those who need it lower and want to learn. No problem. If I had time and desire for coddling ignorance group whinefests and toddler tantrums, I'd get a job at Sunshine and Rainbows Daycare.

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    As a "newby" myself, If I knew it all I would not be on here looking for answers or asking questions. The reason I ask, it that I am ignorant of the thing in which I search for. In my experience when I talk to someone who is more intellegent than myself on a certain topic, thier response is usually one of "well duh....that is simple" because to them they have been there done that and it seems elementary to them. I dont automaticly assume they are putting me down for being ignorant only that they are well beyond that level of thinking on that subject. If I asked someone and they responded with "I hadnt thought of that, but if it were me....." I would probably take the advice in stride and ask someone else who is more knowledgeable to either get a different opion or to confirm my first advice. If you come across as "that is so simple" then I know that you are more experienced and I fell more confident in following the advice.

    This is just my "newby" opion........please dont try to spare my feelings at the cost of my education. Im a big girl, I can take. What I cant take is being ignorant. Being offended is a choice, I choose education to being offended. Knowledge can save my life and that of my families. My poor attitute can not.

    This is just my opionon.

  16. #56
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    There is never any reason to berate someone for trying to learn. A reasonable, honest question should receive an intelligent, understandable response. Trolls fall outside of this realm, however.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

  17. #57
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool well now...

    Farmer Jane, Crabapple Plum, the thing that helps identify a troll is their refusal to do an intro or give out any info on themselves while expecting members on here to advise them on the questions they ask. You ladies gave such great intros that I would never consider you trolls...just don't ask to see the hong! We save that for trolls!
    SARGE
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  18. #58

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    Forums and the internet in general are no longer new. These days newbs would do well to read and check out the culture of a forum before diving in feet first. Especially in a forum that has been around for years. But sometimes there is that all-consuming desire to have their question answered now, the need for instant gratification, that all common sense and manners disappear.

    As for ego-stroking, not for me, not here. I save that for a forum where I actually work in the field the forum is about. Here, I'm just happy to be able to contribute when I can. Or maybe ask a question or two once in a while.

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    Hey guys, another newbie comment! It doesn't take that long to get the feel for a forum. After just a few threads anyone digging deep enough is going to see the "suggestion" to introduce. Like farmerjane, I can take constructive criticism, But I do find it funny when the trolls can't take a hint.

  20. #60
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok
    I do find it funny when the trolls can't take a hint.
    We do, too. It's kinda like Bop-A-Mole.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

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