Med.s ??? Penicillin ??

[Smok]

We too can make and use Penicillin for Survival . Why does survival have to mean primitive or low tack ?? I know that it is a mold and very ease to ID ...Now !! But how to use it ? In a salve or a tea the Web will help only so much , so I have come to you for help in makeing and use of Penicillin..

[canid]

how's your ochem?

how about your sterile culture technique?

[Smok]

At one time in my life I was a Brew Master for a brewery and I am very good at keeping a clear room but for a salve you would not need it. Come on think out side the box there are other antibiotics that we can use as will its just mold

[Smok]

I also make a mean arguer slant,,,

[canid]

if you're familiar with sterile technique and agar culture, then it just comes down to the chemistry. penscilins are now a broad range of compounds, most of which are no longer effective against most common pathogens.

antibiotics in general could certainly be made by the home the the amature, provided that amature was a chemist.

[Smok]

Yes yes I am will know for my miss spelling . But that is not what I am here for and you do not have to be a chemist to do this if you can make bread you can do this . If you make BEER your all ready there let us not make to much of our selfs, it's not that hard .. A simple cut can kill and an , ointment can help save you or yours . Penicillin is not the only one of the antibiotics that can save but not the only one . Silver condorten is one you or I can make . A simple sulfur ointment is better then no ointment . On burns sugar was used with good results most of this is pre 1950s why do we as Americans have to go back that fare .. In the book Where there is no doctor . It is written for Mex. not for Amer . So how do we get the meds. for our kits do we have to make them ????

[canid]

i'm not trying to tell you that it would be doo dificult or dangerous, but that the skills you would have to learn to do this safely would be specific chemistry, which i am only passively learning and none too good at. even a simple extraction of enzymes and protiens would be a chemical proceedure. you would likely need to be didicated and patient but many people do things much more complicated at home out of curiosity, interest or nessecity with great success.

for ointments, there are many topicaly effective bacteroicides beyond the narrow deinition of antibiotics used my western medicine. many herbal preperations for example are effective against a good range of pathogens.

[Rick]

Sorry guys. I wouldn't be concerned about any of that. First, because I know zip about it and would just as easily come up with a concoction of silly putty as I would penicillin. I'd use what I have for as long as I can (expiration dates, run out, etc.) and opt for the medicinal plants after that.

[AdventureDoc]

This is an interesting thread, that makes me think of several things. First, I love anybody who says they "make a mean agar slant". That rocks! I thought only I brag about geeky stuff like that! Cool!

The use of antibiotics in a survival scenario is an important consideration. The length of time one must survive alone or in a remote environment, without definitive medical care, is key. Antibiotics would become a factor if one has an infection or an exposure that warrants antibiotics (animal bite, dirty wound, parasite, etc.).

I think carrying antibiotics in a survival kit is a prudent idea. I consider my self to be a pretty competent lab worker and basic "backyard" chemist. I don't think I'd try to make the actual penicillin that was made by old Mr. Flemming using penicillium notatum. Especially not in a survival scenario of short term. I'd eat the growth medium, myself, first!

I think it would be much easier to grow a wound culture, gram stain that baby and identify the organism. Making PCN would be pretty tough, plus the dose would be tough to get. You dose PCN, true PCN G in number of units, not in milligrams. This makes getting the correct dose, tough.

I could only see this being a consideration with a lot of equipment and a long term need, such as a global disaster.

Having said that, carrying antibiotics in a kit is another matter. Good broad spectrum antibiotics such as a quinolone (Cipro) for GI problems or something for skin wounds (clindamycin, cephalexin, etc) is a wise idea. I'd more consider it as a first aid kit item versus a survival kit item. I'd be more inclined to go with pain killers than antibiotics.

This got me thinking a lot, thanks! Sorry for the longwinded post!
Happy New Year!

[Rick]

Nope. Thank you. Great info. Now, a couple of questions.

Cipro is a prescription med (right?) so what avenue do I have to acquire it other than talk to my PCP? I'm not looking for anything illegal just curious if there is another avenue like OTC vet products.

I carry neosporin in my kit and betadine in my big kit.

When you say pain killers are you talking OTC or script?

I suppose this all depends on country, too. I know I was able to acquire some meds OTC in Canada that were prescription only in the US.

[Jay]

Greetings Doc,
Here in Sri Lanka in the jungles we are prone to scorpion, centepede, tarantula, leech,some mildly venomus snakes and other spider bites. About 20 years ago they didnt bother me much but now they seem to give me a hard time. Can you recomend any broad spectrum antibiotics and antihistamines to avoid allergies etc. I know this is a very general question but any insight you can provide will be useful as I spend a lot of time in the jungles.
rgds
Jay

[Rick]

Well, I can see where this is headed, Doc. First, let me say you have a nice web site. I really like the self help section about diarrhea. A couple of nice tips there. Maybe you could add some self help info along the lines of our questions? Perhaps that's your goal, I don't know.

[AdventureDoc]

Cipro is ciprofloxacin, a flouroquinolone medication, available in the US only by prescription. I'd ask my family doc for a script of a few days course, tell him/her it was for a back-country survival kit and they should totally understand. I frequently write scripts for these types of meds for people to place in their travel health kits, for vacations.

I'd stay pretty clear of OTC vet medicines. Very far away, in fact.

I think neosporin is a fantastic cream and a lifesaver. There are a few other creams that I have in a larger health kit, including an OTC cortisone cream for itch/reactions/rashes and a OTC anti-fungal.

As for pain killers, I generally advise a combo of aspirin, motrin and something a bit "heftier". Aspirin has a double benefit of working well in chest pain scenarios, as a medicine for acute heart attack. Motrin is a great pain reliever (analgesic) and a fantastic anti-inflammatory agent. It is one of my mainstays. A low-grade narcotic is another consideration, for injuries such as broken legs, limbs, etc. A few (4) Vicodin (tylenol and codine) are also in my kit. Just enough to take the edge off, for about 12-24 hours. It makes waiting for help a little easier.

Of course, I feel that if anybody carries a medicine, they need to know when to use it and when not to. For example, don't give aspirin to children for fear of Reye's syndrome. I guess it all comes back to being as familiar and proficient with your gear as you possibly can be. It doesn't matter what the item is: antibiotic, compass, shelter, fire starting eqpt, when you need to use one of these items, it is not the right time to learn how to use it.

Jay-- that sounds awesome! I'd love to spend time in a jungle in Sri Lanka!

I just read a great article about snake bites in Sri Lanka, specifically. Here's the link:
http://www.rrh.org.au/articles/subvi...?ArticleID=751

As you can see, there are some serious snakes in your part of the world! The idea of the Australian Pressure Dressing is a technique I'd become familiar with:
http://www.avru.org/firstaid/firstaid_pib.html

As for allergy problems, antihistamines are the ticket. Providing there is not a life threatening allergic reaction (anaphylaxis). But, treatment of an bite or sting is another matter.

[woodwose]

the survival situation may be experimenting with your mortality enough.. why confound the issue.. Pack it in...

[Sarge47]

Wow! Really enjoying Doc's posts! An easy to get anti-biotic that's done wonders for me is A very heavy dosage of Vitamin "C" with Bio-Flavinoids! With this I have staved off the flu and even reduced infection in my gums from an impacted tooth! My boss loves the fact that in going on 5 years of driving I haven't taken off a single sick day and I'm going to be 61 this June! I once told him about my "med" & he quiped: "Need to get a lot of the other drivers to take it!" My wife has an immunity to most Prescribed Anti-biotics and suffers very bad health, so she has studied "herbal remedies for years that seem to work wonders! My son is allergic to Penicillan; something to consider before handing it out to just anyone!

[Smok]

Thanks to all of the Wolfs Your just great