Please leave a suicide note! <RANT>

[Mountaintrekker]

<CAUTION, THIS IS A RANT, feelings may be hurt!>
I feel like ranting a bit because of all the "living off the land", "back to nature", "hide from society, but I've never spent a night outside away from my woobie" talk that goes on here.
I know if you have an interest in such things you need to start somewhere. <sigh> I had to start somewhere too and that somewhere was in the woods with someone who was more experienced than me, or by trial and error, not on an internet forum. Ok, I'm digressing from my original intent a bit.
For all you folks who want to pack up a backpack and plunk yourself in the middle of nowhere and live like Daniel Boone or Jerimiah Johnson and haven't so much as spent a night outside by yourself... I say go for it! You want the experience? Go do it! Come to Alaska and set off to live in the wilds, just tell your parents or other next of kin your intentions and please explain to them that it's your choice and to not call search and rescue when you don't come home.
I know stories have romanticized the prospects of these types of adventures for generations. People get a wild hair and go for it, some don't come back, it's just nature, nothing personal. SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST!
Nowdays we have it a little bit different, folks with hectic schedules that make mistakes because they are rushed to get back to make a flight. ( I call them 3 day Magellan's) to people who depend on heaps of gadgetry to have every conveinence in the outdoors, yet leave garbage wherever they go. Let's not forget to mention the satellite connected help buttons and cell coverage that covers way too much of the wilderness in my opinion and radio beacons and God knows what else you can activate to whisk your scared and damaged butt off of a ridge you should have never been on in the first place because you have no idea what you are doing! This nanny state B.S. comes with a price! Upping my taxes and increasing the fees and permits and gaggles of paperwork to fill out in order for me to enjoy the wilderness where I live!
You want the wilderness? Great! Just know what the ultimate sacrifice could be and be prepared to cash in your chips. Too many people are wandering around out there with the false sense of security of these technologies and when something goes awry, blame the wilderness and make rules and laws for everyone to follow so noone gets hurt! It's not a theme park with hand rails people!
Survival in the wilderness is your responsibility and noone else's! You want to come out and play? Know what that can mean and don't count on help with the push of a button! Want to live like the pioneers? Great! Just leave a note telling the hard working honest folks at SAR with families that you understand what "wilderness" means (or that you want to go out like Chris McDumbass) and let nature run her course.

<Ok, I feel a bit better>

[Rick]

It might have been a rant but it was a pretty good post with a couple of really good lessons for anyone inclined to absorb them. I wish, however, you would have bolded a different phrase. "Survival in the wilderness is your responsibility"...

I think most are here because they believe that. Trying to learn as much as they can. On the flip side of that coin is the fact that the knowledge must come from somewhere and not everyone has access to or can afford to tag along with someone that knows what they are doing. So they do the next best thing. They read books and search the internet (a really really big book) and try to digest as much information as they can. Then move to practicing what they have learned. Hopefully, we're smart enough to take it in stages but, as you said, some don't come back.

I see SAR as a necessity not just for wannabes that get themselves into trouble but for seasoned hardbutts that simply make a mistake or find Mother Nature got up on the wrong side of the bed one morning. Some of the members on here have been recipients of SAR help and had a lot of experience before the call. No different, to me, than one of the many boats that work the Bering Sea for a living and find they have to call on the Coast Guard to yank them to safety. It just happens sometimes.

But I do agree with what you said. You don't become a Wall Street day trader by waking up one morning and deciding to go in and give it a try. You don't become a thoracic surgeon by picking up a few hand tools and waltzing into the nearest surgical suite and announcing your intentions. You get to either place by a lot of study and practice. Apprenticing. Training. Learning from others. Then, when you can do it without getting into too much trouble you are allowed to venture out on your own. That's the same with most jobs. Preparing to live in the wilderness requires the same level of commitment.

[BENESSE]

Amen to all that was said.
It's especially important to drive home that message to young kids who seek advice here.

[crashdive123]

In the words of a wise and aged man --- Zactly! For those that turely want to learn - they will listen and hang around. For the immature - they will stomp off and look for answers that agree with their model.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Having lived in a "survival" situation during the Winter,almost freezing to death (In the lower 48) I don't think it is a Rant at all!!Granted It was when I was homeless but the consequences (life or death) were the same. Very Good post!!

[gryffynklm]

Mountaintrekker No rant detected, good post.

[aflineman]

Good post. Spending a couple of nights in the woods and living in the woods are two very different things. I think to many people don't realize what WORK it is to survive. Always hungry, always cold, always needing to be working at surviving. I enjoy camping, even primitive camping; but a hot shower and a soft warm bed are great and appreciated when I get home.
The news folks around here scream and yell when folks get lost and die on Mt. Hood, every year. They tout that a locator beacon would have saved everyone. Many times though, these folks don't have time to activate a beacon. If they did, the weather may just be to bad to go get them. That mountain has been hungry for souls for millions of years, he will find a way around mans best laid plans.

[Top it off - let it idle]

No feelings hurt. I was a SAR volunteer for many years and have seen what happens when you mix alcohol and granite and I've also helped carry out the bodies of experienced, prepared folks who just stepped on the wrong rock in the wrong place at the wrong time. I always tell people, if you get hurt 30 minutes into a trail hike, that can mean 3 hours or more for SAR to mobilize, reach the scene, stabilize and evacuate (depending on circumstance and terrain). If your injuries don't give you three hours (serious closed head, severe internal bleeding)... well this ain't the city where it's 15 minutes to the ER.

I think you hit it right on the head. If being out in the wilderness teaches us anything, it teaches us self reliance, responsibility and respect for the fragility of life. If you don't understand that and take that with you every time you step away from the pavement, life in all of its raw simplicity may just walk up and bite you in the ***.

Thanks for the post.

[Winnie]

Ditto what everyone else has said!

[Ole WV Coot]

I kinda know where you're coming from. My territory I know and have no desire to leave the house here in the hills. Believe it or not we get folks that come in to this area because of the frontier history. I've seen them lost & bewildered just trying to adjust to the woods. Guy passed us flying low on an ATV trying to get a cell signal and when he did he didn't know where his friend wrecked and couldn't find his way back either. The guy is back in TN paralyzed from the neck down and wouldn't be alive if we hadn't called in the coordinates for the chopper. Agree with everything you said, and ignorance ain't bliss.

[hunter63]

Right on, no rant, just fact..
Well said.

[rwc1969]

Another long winded post by RWC,

Although I agree with the intent of your post Mountain Trekker, it might be more useful to give information about living off the land and sharing your experiences rather than putting people down who are apparently less experienced than you. I am a bit offended.

Quote: "I had to start somewhere too and that somewhere was in the woods with someone who was more experienced than me, or by trial and error, not on an internet forum. "

Who was that someone? and what was the trial and error? Do you believe people can't learn from the internet? If so, you're absolutely wrong!

I've learned and taught a great deal thru the internet. I've learned how to tear apart all my guns, I've learned how to identify hundreds if not thousands of mushrooms. I've learned how to identify many wild and domestic plants and animals. I've learned a great deal about survival and wilderness living and the difference in a very short time. I've learned a lot about hiking, backpacking, hunting, fishing, real estate, law, buiding houses, maintenance, roofing, appliance repair, computers, networking, history, business.

You name it dude and I guaranatee it can be learned and taught on the internet. All it takes is a person with knowledge, experience, willingness to teach, and the ability to put in format and publish whether it be videos, pictures or words. Beyond that it takes a willingness of the student to go out and practice.

Having someone in the field with you is priceless, but many can't afford that or don't know anyone who will do that for free. A lot of us have no Dad or uncles to take us out. Many have no friends who share the same interest. I have family and a few "good" friends, but very few are at all intersted in the outrdoors, let alone wilderness living.

This is your opportunity to be that person.

Do you live off the land in the wilderness? If so, please enlighten us.

How do you do it?

How did you find out Alaska was the place to be and all of us living in the lower 48 were ignorant retards that couldn't start a fire or a skin a buck if our lives depended on it?

How do you stay warm?

aquire food and water?

earn money for essentials?

What is your personal emergency plan if you get lost or injured in the field?

The only reason I say this is because every time a newbie comes on here asking for sound advice they usually get hammered with endless cliches and posts about how you are gonna die and such, rather than telling them how to avoid dying.

IMO, This is in most cases more dangerous than providing them with resources and advice on how to actually survive or help them layout a plan for realistically fulfilling their "romantic dream" of wilderness living as you apparently have.

Example: I used to belong to a website that had many knowledgeable mushroom hunters and mycophiles. But, when anyone came on asking for advice they were beaten up with "you're gonna poison yourself" "you need to read a thousand books" "you need to seek advice from a professional" "you must learn to ID every poisonous mushroom first" and such. All cliches! Instead of giving sound advice on properly identifying edible mushrooms and avoiding poisonous look a likes they scared the people off or made them afraid to ask questions. Well, many of those people ended up experimenting on their own without guidance. If they had a question about a particular shroom they were afraid to ask and many ended up eating the shroom without knowing the potential consequences. That is far more dangerous than providing the information would have been.

I'm surely not trying to ruffle your feathers, or deny the validity of your thread, but, it's important to note that ridiculing folks that may be less knowledgable than you is far more dangerous IMO than providing them with the information they seek. And, if you think it ain't ridiculing or demeaning you seriously need to pull your head out your *** and re-read those threads. Posts like those aren't helping anyone.

None of us were born into the wilderness with vast knowledge of the outdoors. We all learned everything we know from someone else, and thru trial and error we have maybe learned more.

I hope this post isn't too offending. I also hope it might open up some folks eyes to what they're really accomplishing with the insulting and demeaning posts to newbies/ new members.

I really like this forum compared to others with similar topics and don't mean to offend those here with knowledge. I like the idea of safety first and bringing folks back to reality, but in some cases it goes too far.

[Stony]

I am with you on that one, Moutaintrekker!

There should be an insurance option for the public if they need SAR.

[BENESSE]

rwc,
Since I am a relative newcomer to the forum and a total neophyte when it comes to wilderness skills I feel the need to comment in defense of restrained and measured advice.
Acquiring even the basic knowledge let alone skills (as I found out) requires serious time commitment to explore ALL available resources and then practice what you've learned. Don't think one can skip grades by getting easy answers or expecting "one stop shopping here". I should know!

People (especially the teens) ought to get a healthy dose of reality served up front because the consequences of not "getting it" might be a lot more painful than screwing up the do-it-yourself deck or getting lost on the way to the mall.

[Top it off - let it idle]

I see your point RWC. I too believe you can find very valuable information on just about everything online. That's why this forum exists. Educating folks new to wilderness survival is another reason why this forum exists and I think most members are willing to share great information along with the sound advice that the wilderness can be unforgiving and to take small steps on the long road towards experience.

I feel some of Mountaintrekker's frustration too. I think at the core for me is precisely the "nanny state" notion. An outstanding example of this are the laws that are enacted to control knives. I am at a complete loss to understand how such a basic tool can be regulated, restricted or prohibited. What's next - hammers? The expectation is that someone else is going to make life safe for us through rules, regulations and technology. At the same time, if something goes wrong, there will be someone to save us and someone to sue for damages. The reality is that life is unpredictable, ultimately fatal and something we each have to take personal responsibility for.

This forum is a great source of information. New members with "dumb" questions should always be welcome. That's how "dumb" questions evolve into "good" questions. However, there is also a responsibility to strip the dangerous romantic notions away while leaving the passion to learn the skills to safely enjoy the wonders that the wilderness provides. I don't think I would find any disagreement when I say that the wilderness can provide positive life-changing experiences. That's where the romance is born. Negative life-ending experiences just plain suck.

PS. I like my gadgets... my wife says I should stop playing with them so much or I may go blind. I also never rely on my gadgets but that may be too much information.

[klkak]

Good to see there is still some spark left in the forum.

[Ole WV Coot]

If asked in a decent way there is no such thing as a dumb question, only a dumb answer. I have asked plenty and learned a lot. Sometimes I take simple things for granted that I have known for over half a century, forgetting some folks grow up in a city and never experience what some of us have and yes, I need to do better.

[Mountaintrekker]

RWC,
I'm not offended in the slightest. I as well as other members get a bit tired of having to explain over and over how so and so shouldn't just wander out there in the national forest and put up a tent and try living off the land. I know full well the learning potential of the internet. I think it's a great tool when used this way and I'm sure you learned lots, I know I have. There is a fundemental difference between book smart and woods smart though.
You learned on the internet how to start a fire with a ferro rod and your pocket knife, great! Now spend hours in freezing rain huddled under a spruce trying to get one to go. Big difference! I'm not saying people shouldn't go out to the woods and test your skills. Just don't be an idiot and expect the hand of God in the form of a recue helicopter to come pluck you out of a situation at great expense to the taxpayer, hunters and fisherman. It's the careless and foolhardy who are ruining it for the rest of us. The nanny state mentality has gotten so out of whack it's unbelievable.
Take the knowledge you have gained on the internet and go apply it to the outdoors. Pick up after yourself and take responsibilty for yourself and you will be the better person for it.