Levergun/revolver combo

[2dumb2kwit]

Sounds good. I want something that is sturdy. How do you rate its reliability, and ease or frequency of cleaning? Being unique is great, but need / want something reliable. Is it picky with ammo?

I really don't know how to answer that. All I do for cleaning, is flip the lever open, spray everything out with gunscrubber, etc., and run some patches down the barrel. Put a little oil on the moving parts, then wipe it all down, with a little rem oil. I think this pretty much gets what is needed, and I doubt I'd ever take it apart. (You can get to everything, with it open.)

I've seen a few metal flakes, in the moving parts, but I don't know if it's from breaking in, or if it's wearing. I've fired about 300 rounds of federal #8 thru it. (Wal-mart value packs) Other than that , all I've shot is 5 slugs, to see where they hit.

When I got it,(second hand) it would eject the empty and the next loaded round at the same time. I took it to my gunsmith, and it turned out that the guy who had it, must have taken it apart, and didn't put it back together right. My gunsmith put it back together, handed it to me, and it hasn't missed a beat yet.

[Rick]

Okay, on the lever gun/handgun combo, I've always heard that companies don't make handgun carbines because of the ridged ammo. It's supposed to make feeding from a magazine difficult. Yet, I have two in 9mm and you can find .45s around. Any thoughts on why .357 isn't offered in a semi-auto with something other than a rotary magazine?

[aflineman]

Okay, on the lever gun/handgun combo, I've always heard that companies don't make handgun carbines because of the ridged ammo. It's supposed to make feeding from a magazine difficult. Yet, I have two in 9mm and you can find .45s around. Any thoughts on why .357 isn't offered in a semi-auto with something other than a rotary magazine?

IIRC, it has to do with the rimmed cartridge. They don't tend to feed right out of a stacked magazine. Coonan had to do quite a bit of engineering to get his auto to work

[Rick]

So what's the difference between a .357 and a 9mm or .45? They are all rimmed aren't they?

[crashdive123]

They make em - they're just not all that prevalent. http://www.remtek.com/arms/imi/desert/index.htm I always thought it had something to do with how much the rim of the cartridge protruded (might be showing my ignorance). I also thought that's why the 357 sig was developed.

[aflineman]

So what's the difference between a .357 and a 9mm or .45? They are all rimmed aren't they?

.357 has a full rim. 9mm and .45 ACP have a recessed auto rim. (The auto rim was designed to specifically to help in feeding and extraction on an autoloader).

[Rick]

See? Why can't you get that in a carbine? I would think there would be all sorts of interest in it. Maybe I'm wrong.

[aflineman]

See? Why can't you get that in a carbine? I would think there would be all sorts of interest in it. Maybe I'm wrong.

There are 9mm carbines, .40 carbines, 30 M1 Carbine, and .45 carbines a plenty. Kel-tec, Olympic Arms, Beretta, H&K, High-Point; are some that I can think of off the top of my head.

[hunter63]

Rim Vs Rimless:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rim_(firearms)

I wondered for a long time till starting fooling with Nagants 7.62 X 54R (for rimmed, not Russian)

I always wondered about "Moon clips", thought they were just a poor man's speed loader, but it seems the they clip into the rimless case to allow rimless to be loaded into revolvers.
Anyway, I always wondered why the weren't many .357 auto's also.
I really like this cartridge.

[crashdive123]

I just happened to have a .357 (left) and .45 (right) laying around. Seems that it was the only two things the thiefs didn't get. As you can see, the .357 rim sticks out beyond the wall of the cartridge, while the .45 does not.

[Camp10]

What's the great advantage of a semi-auto rifle anyways? I remeber reading someplace that both a lever and a pump rifle will give you a faster accurate second shot than a semi.

[Camp10]

I might have to retract my last post...I cant find the article that I was looking for now. I remember reading this in American Hunter a few years back but I cant find it now...rats!

[2dumb2kwit]

Hmmmm....I have.....er uhhh.....I mean , I had....a PSL. It's a semi auto, that shoots 7.62x54R (Rimmed). Desert Eagle's come in .357, and .44 mag. (Among others.), so it can be done.......right?

[Rick]

There are 9mm carbines, .40 carbines, 30 M1 Carbine, and .45 carbines a plenty. Kel-tec, Olympic Arms, Beretta, H&K, High-Point; are some that I can think of off the top of my head.

Agreed, but none in .357. You can find a boat load of lever guns in .357 but no semi carbines. If you can make a .357 in semi pistol and make a lever gun in .357 why couldn't you make a semi carbine in .357?

I'm just trying to understand. I think it would be great to pair up my SP101 in .357/38 with a carbine in .357/38. Although I do like Mac's choice of the Rossi. I've just never been a fan of lever guns.

[aflineman]

Agreed, but none in .357. You can find a boat load of lever guns in .357 but no semi carbines. If you can make a .357 in semi pistol and make a lever gun in .357 why couldn't you make a semi carbine in .357?

I'm just trying to understand. I think it would be great to pair up my SP101 in .357/38 with a carbine in .357/38. Although I do like Mac's choice of the Rossi. I've just never been a fan of lever guns.

I see what you are asking now.
I know Coonan had a heck of a time making his 1911 style semiauto work well. And they still get rimlock of the cartridge in the stacked magazine really bad. They work, but don't seem to be as reliable or durable as they should be, and I think that is due to the rimmed round. I know Ruger went with the tube feed for some of their .44 carbines, and I think it was due to the same rimlock issue. (The rim of the feeding round jumping behind the rim of the round under it and being wedged where it can't feed). IIRC, this is the single largest issue with a rimmed cartridge.

[hunter63]

Desert Eagle does apparently still offer the .357:
http://www.deserteaglepro.com/item/1...357MAG_6_.aspx
They do also have the .44 mag, also a rimmed case.

But then again if I was to spend that much money, why not get a .50?
If a little does a little good, then a lot will do a lot of good, Right?

It is odd about the carbines.

[Pal334]

I really don't know how to answer that. All I do for cleaning, is flip the lever open, spray everything out with gunscrubber, etc., and run some patches down the barrel. Put a little oil on the moving parts, then wipe it all down, with a little rem oil. I think this pretty much gets what is needed, and I doubt I'd ever take it apart. (You can get to everything, with it open.)

I've seen a few metal flakes, in the moving parts, but I don't know if it's from breaking in, or if it's wearing. I've fired about 300 rounds of federal #8 thru it. (Wal-mart value packs) Other than that , all I've shot is 5 slugs, to see where they hit.

When I got it,(second hand) it would eject the empty and the next loaded round at the same time. I took it to my gunsmith, and it turned out that the guy who had it, must have taken it apart, and didn't put it back together right. My gunsmith put it back together, handed it to me, and it hasn't missed a beat yet.

Last question off topic, then I will behave

Do you consider it to be a "real user", example for hunting deer (we are a slug state both shotguns and otherwise), or just a fun novelty?

[2dumb2kwit]

Sounds good. I want something that is sturdy. How do you rate its reliability, and ease or frequency of cleaning? Being unique is great, but need / want something reliable. Is it picky with ammo?

I've been thinking about your question.
I don't really have any reason not to have faith in this gun, but if I only had one shotgun, to provide for, or protect my family, it would be a Rem 870, or a Mossy 500. Not that I doubt the little levergun, but the other two just have a long track record, that gives me more of a warm and fuzzy feeling.

I guess I trust the levergun, but long term is still an unknown quantity.

[2dumb2kwit]

Last question off topic, then I will behave

Do you consider it to be a "real user", example for hunting deer (we are a slug state both shotguns and otherwise), or just a fun novelty?

I've shot a few slugs through mine, but only at about 25 or 30 yds.

One thing that I forgot to mention, is that it has no safety. If I were to walk with it, it would be with an empty chamber....so to fire I would first have to rack a shell into it. Sitting in a stand would be fine.

I guess, how it was to be used, would determine if I'd call it a user.

[Pal334]

Got it, thanks for the input