waste of energy?

[snakeman]

In a boy scout meeting last night, we were going over the wilderness survival merit badge, and in the merit badge book, it says that trying to obtain food by fishing, hunting, or trapping will use more energy than you can get back from the animal. i would think that if your other priorities are taken care of, you should set traps and try to get some food. What do Ya'll think?

[2dumb2kwit]

I guess I have to ask this, out of ignorance.

Wouldn't it depend on the available game, and how efficiently you can harvest it?

[skunkkiller]

you can set a lot of set lines or trap to do the work of hunting for you so you can be doing other thing like shelter fire water not in order.

[Bladen]

i guess id have to read a bit more.
is it for a day of survival?
two days maybe?

would i need to gather wood to cook the stuff or would i have a fire and wood already?

am i trying to walk out or wait for a rescue?
theres just a ton of questions.

id have to agree with 2dum, it depends on the situation.

with that being said, it seems pretty easy to make a couple of simple traps-squirrel poles maybe-without using a ton of energy.

just keeping your mind on something else can be pretty helpful too.
a little food doesnt hurt the spirits either.

[DOGMAN]

They are probably teaching people to stay in one place and wait on rescue. So, in this situation conserving energy is a good option. This is working on the assumption that people will be looking for you....In reality this shouldn't be taught as "Wilderness Survival" it should be called "staying alive after getting lost" or some other such thing...

[cowgirlup]

They are probably teaching people to stay in one place and wait on rescue. So, in this situation conserving energy is a good option. This is working on the assumption that people will be looking for you....In reality this shouldn't be taught as "Wilderness Survival" it should be called "staying alive after getting lost" or some other such thing...

Yeah, otherwise you'll be a well rested corpse if you're just out on your own with slim to no chance of rescue.

Providing you were looking to be rescued in the first place.

[rwc1969]

I would think trapping would be most efficient.

Using current game laws and methods I agree that hunting and fishing is very inefficient.

[Rick]

I would have to read the article to understand the context but on the merits of this thread, I'd have to agree with Dog Man.

[SARKY]

Traps, snares and trot lines are a more efficient means of gathering food than foraging for wild edibles (bunny food).
Rule of 3s ......3 days without water, 3 weeks without food, so I shouldn't look for water either?
When I was in Maine we taught the kids "Find a Space and Show your Face"
And if I'm conserving energy, why bother building a fire or shelter? NO this is some goo goo gaa gaa idiots wilderness version of the nanny state. It seems to me that they have people writing the requirements for these badges that have no experience or clue on the subject.

[your_comforting_company]

Fish traps (like the bottleneck trick), and trap lines would be super efficient and would require little energy to set up and use (over and over). Snares and tripwires and deadfalls would not be very taxing either, and the triggers are easy to make. Foraging requires the least energy, but the most knowledge...
Hunting and making projectile weapons requires a great deal of time and effort, not very efficient. This is why I wasn't in the scouts, their logic doesn't escape me, it outright runs away. In a real "wilderness survival" situation, you will procure a meal more quickly by fishing and trapping and foraging than any other way, unless you have rations with you.
a side note, perpetual motion machines have all failed because of energy loss due to friction: It takes more energy to move the machine, than the machine can produce work.
Homo sapiens are a little different in that the cells in our body are like tiny nuclear reactors. A little can go a long way. One pound of food is enough to last you a day at least. When we aren't burning calories, our body only uses a little to repair and regenerate and a lot gets stored in fat which we can burn later.

2 or 3 days in the "wilderness" is a lot different than 6 months. think how hungry you'd be after a week compared to a few days.. personally, I'm going fishing.

[aflineman]

Merit badges mainly provide an exposure to ideas, jobs, and experiences. From what I have seen, the survival merit badge is mainly a "stay in place and await rescue" type scenario. Which in all reality is what most people need. IIRC the merit badge requires a night in the woods with only a limited list of items. In this scenario the Scout's energy is better spent on shelter, fire, and maybe water. The biggest thing this merit badge provides is confidence that they can spend the night in the woods and endure some cold, discomfort, thirst, and hunger.
From experience, if you don't somewhat channel channel these young Scouts, the first thing they want to do is set trap and kill/cook little animals. Not a bad idea, but only after you take care of shelter and warmth.

[your_comforting_company]

It seems to me that they have people writing the requirements for these badges that have no experience or clue on the subject.

like the scoutmasters that I know...

[aflineman]

like the scoutmasters that I know...

Sorry you have not met the right ones. It is a volunteer position that takes a lot of time. You get good ones and bad ones, with varying experiences in different areas. Every one that I have met though, would not turn down a subject matter expert and a stand in instructor. Ever try and volunteer?

And no, I am not trying to be confrontational or critical, I am always trying to recruit people to help in their local Scouting troops. After all, it is the organization that we make it, and it is supposed to be about giving the young Scouts good and varied experiences in life. Is it perfect? No. Is it better than TV or video games? Heck YES! (BTW, for some of the more advanced stuff, Explorers or OA may be where you want to focus).

[owl_girl]

fishing takes very little energy. you piratically just sit there. if you have time and have done the other things that were needed then i would fish.

[your_comforting_company]

actually, I have been working with the scouts a little, doing demonstrations and talking about forestry and outdoorsman activities. I understand completely that the masters are volunteers with varied and limited knowledge. The important thing is that they DO step up to give the youngsters some aim and they try very hard to teach them responsibility. I applaud them.
I have thought about volunteering as a scoutmaster, but my work / hunting / tanning schedule really doesn't work with the weekly meeting thing.
My biggest concern is folks teaching kids things that they have no actual experience with. teaching from a handbook is not the same as teaching from hands-on.

[Proud American]

Here is the requirements http://www.usscouts.org/mb/mb117.asp

I would think that trapping is easy and a good long term plan. Seeing that from the requirements it looks like they mainly teach you how to be found and live long enough to be found. Catching rabbits with traps takes very little effort if you have the know how and the tools to make a trap, go for it. Better plan in survival situation to stay awhile, otherwise you will not survive if they don't find you right away. Better safe than sorry as the saying goes.

[2dumb2kwit]

As a side note, I'm glad to see that several people mentioned fishing. (Or trapping fish.) So often, fish seem to be forgotten.

Maybe I just don't think about areas not having the water, that I am used to.

In my area, hooks and line, would be high on my list of wants, in a survival situation.

[aflineman]

actually, I have been working with the scouts a little, doing demonstrations and talking about forestry and outdoorsman activities. I understand completely that the masters are volunteers with varied and limited knowledge. The important thing is that they DO step up to give the youngsters some aim and they try very hard to teach them responsibility. I applaud them.
I have thought about volunteering as a scoutmaster, but my work / hunting / tanning schedule really doesn't work with the weekly meeting thing.
My biggest concern is folks teaching kids things that they have no actual experience with. teaching from a handbook is not the same as teaching from hands-on.

I hear you about the experience, unfortunately many just don't have it.
Thank you for taking your time and teaching the younger folks from hands on experience, they (and I) really do appreciate it.

[your_comforting_company]

no thanks needed brother. really, it's my pleasure.

[Sarge47]

I agree that the Scouts of today are a lot different than the scouts of the past; that's why I always encourage the kind of members that we have here to get involved whenever possible. If it's bad...fix it! If it's wrong...change it! If it's not broke...keep your filthy mitts off!