Living In The Remote Wilderness. . . .

[Nativedude]

People whom are against those of us that live a serene, life of solitude, are either jealous or lazy. . .or both!

I have many, many people (friends, family, clients, etc.) that tell me all the time, "I am so envious of the lifestyle you live!"

RWC, I look at people that 'love to live in the city', the way that you described your friends (although I wouldn't call them friend, I'd call them acquaintances) look at you when you talk about living the way many of us do on this forum. I say acquaintances because of the fact that they disregard and make disparaging remarks about your choice of lifestyle!

I think that the inner (BIG) city dwellers are crazy for wanting to live in that environment! I haven't ever seen a car-jacking, mugging, rape, stabbing, etc., out here in the woods, nor in the towns I go to when picking up supplies. And, when I see a bear, or big cat, I know to avoid them, which prevents any trouble.

In the city you have no idea whom the predators are! JM2C

[rwc1969]

SJJ, my post wasn't made to offend other walks of life. It was to say that some people don't want that way of life. Others certainly do and that's fine. I just don't understand why some that want the "pushing a pen" way of life are so against those that don't and so quick to jump to conclusions when one expresses it. That was the point I was trying to make.

If a guy or girl wants to spend their free time drinking alcohol, partying, shopping, dancing or even gossipping and spreading rumors that's fine too. If someone's idea of being at one with nature is becoming a parks and recreation officer or wildlife biologist, that's fine too, but it's not my idea. Those people can live however they want. I just don't like them trying to force me into their way of life and denying or putting down the way of life I enjoy. I don't try to force them into my ideal way of life and I don't put them down or demean them for their ideal way. I openly disagree with certain aspects of our society, and I disagree with the way certain people live, but I don't put others I personally know down for living the way they do. In other words, if I disagreed with abortion I would openly say so, but I would not attack someone or shun them for having had one. I would not try to force someone to keep a child they didn't want.

My pushing a pen comparison meant "a white collar job" generically speaking. It was not meant to offend white collar folks, just to say office job in a different way. I could have easily said "redneck", "blue collar" or "cybergeek", but in the area I live the majority of people are quickly becoming associated with office setting type work rather than construction or factory work. I just had office work on my mind at the time of my post. I realize now that penpusher may be a derogatory term, just as is redneck, but it was not meant to be. I guess I should've just said white collar or something. Hell, I guess white collar is derogatory too. I honestly don't know. I've never been too much for PC'ness and don't keep up on what the latest words are we aren't supposed to say.

You also brought up the exact thing I was trying to relate. Why do people automatically assume a person wants to disassociate themselves from society just because they want to live in the wilderness or with nature?

Realistically, I don't want to alienate myself from society, or go against it. I don't want to be a hermit. I don't want to live solely in the wilderness with no contact with society. There's no reason a person living in the wilderness couldn't write a book, have a farm of sorts, a job, etc.

How does saying "I want to live in the wilderness" equate to "I don't value people who value family, spouses and making the world better for others"?

I'm not sure where you got this from. Maybe you are just reading into my posts too much.

I certainly never said wilderness living was the only good thing and urban/ rural living was evil. There is plenty of decadence in our modern society and there wasn't as much when the natives ruled this land. Do you think that I believe natives are/ were holy and pure? Well, I don't! Many were quite evil and their society had it's evil ways just as ours does.

It isn't a question of good vs. evil. It's a question of being allowed to live life the way you see fit and not being hassled or lessened for it.

As a kid I was somewhat antisocial and quite rebellious. This was more a product of the people I was associated with and my environmnet at the time than who I now am as a person. It was also because of people's assumptions who didn't agree with or understand my ideals or way of life. Moving up here to Michigan from Kentucky was a huge culture shock. We were relatively backwoods and moving to a small town up here was like moving to the east side of Detroit would be today. We had an outhouse, got our drinking water from a mountain spring, untreated and pure, I could walk the entire mountain, set traps, illegal traps, and pretty much do anything my Dad and mom, and neighbors allowed. There were no boundaries, no fences, no hidden agendas! Everyone got along fairly well. I rarely saw a cop, fireman or ambulance till I moved up here. Our TV got 3 extremely fuzzy channels and we rarely watched it.

People up here didn't know what to think of me. They thought I was a crazy inbred hillbilly who cared nothing of family, laws or society. But, that was just an assumption on their part and not the reality. In KY if someone gave you ****, you gave them **** back. Up here people dealt with things more inconspicuously and in a more behind the back kind of way. Down in KY it was dealt with right there on the spot and law enforcement and such were down with it. In KY folks would wave at you even if they didn't know you. Up here if you waved at someone you didn't know they'd flip you the bird and say "WTF are you waving at you stupid hillbilly?". In KY people were much more patriotic and free than they are up here. Patriotism and freedom weren't neat catch phrases, but a way of life that goes back a long way. I'm sure it's changed down there since.

People weren't nearly as judgemnetal back then in KY, and they didn't go reading into every little thing you said. Everyone basically minded their own business and let others live however they felt like living as long as it didn't interfere with the way they were living thier lives. Were they pure innocent and good? Hell no! Many of em gossipped to high heaven, but they didn't talk down to ya and they always welcomed you.

[rwc1969]

Native dude, I no longer let others tell me how to live my life or drag me down with their negativity, and if they don't want to hear it I don't tell it. I've adapted the don't ask/ don't tell policy. My ideals of wilderness living as a punk kid were outlandish and far from reality. I'm doing what I can to learn about and practice primitive living in a modern neolithic sort of way. I'm researching differnet areas of the country as to what would be best suited to the hunter, gatherer, farmer lifestyle. I realize now that Making money in some fashion is going to be necessary and am trying to come up with ideas for that as well. whether it means sellin goods at Farmer's markets, trade shows, pt job, or whatever.

Learning the skills to live a modern neolithic way of life is not that difficult. having someone to teach you in real life is great, no doubt, and there's how-to's for everything these days. All you have to do is learn and practice. Not to say it's easy, but, The difficult part, for me anyway, is finding a way and place to do that and still be functional in society. Whether that mean paying taxes, having money aside for medical expenses, tech stuff, raising or keeping in touch with family, or what have you.

My plan is not to run off into the wild and die, but to learn the skills required, ways to create revenue, and the environment/ habitat that suits my ideal of primitive living and find a way to get to that place.

Like I said earlier in this thread, having a girl, or a small group, who is like minded would be awesome. Because managing the daily, short and long term needs and wants would be so much easier and far less lonely. I think it would be cool to raise a family living modern primitive.

A modern neolithic society!

[Rick]

I say acquaintances because of the fact that they disregard and make disparaging remarks about your choice of lifestyle! .... I think that the inner (BIG) city dwellers are crazy for wanting to live in that environment! I haven't ever seen a car-jacking, mugging, rape, stabbing, etc., out here in the woods, nor in the towns I go to when picking up supplies. And, when I see a bear, or big cat, I know to avoid them, which prevents any trouble.

Wait a minute. Didn't you just do the same thing?

I haven't seen anyone get mauled by a bear or a mountain lion here in town. And when I see someone that looks suspicious, I know to avoid them, which prevents any trouble.

[neondog]

when I see someone that looks suspicious, I know to avoid them, which prevents any trouble.

A large percentage of the deadliest animals in the big cities look completely domesticated. I've never mistaken a buffalo for a Holstein.

[Mtnman Mike]

People whom are against those of us that live a serene, life of solitude, are either jealous or lazy. . .or both!

I have many, many people (friends, family, clients, etc.) that tell me all the time, "I am so envious of the lifestyle you live!"

I think that the inner (BIG) city dwellers are crazy for wanting to live in that environment!

In the city you have no idea whom the predators are! JM2C

I also have had many say they are envious of my mtn retreat and lifestyle. IF they actually would try it for a week or more I doubt they would be as envious.
Most of them are on the internet, who have seen my pic threads in a few different forums.

Almost everything is physically difficult, or many would say challenging. From carrying almost everything uphill to filtering water everyday to living without modern conveniences. But I love it up there and hope to be able to live up on my mtn retreat permanently someday soon. If I can get enough supplies and mainly If I can be able to pay the no good property taxes, which are "only" $208 a year but if one does not make very much money then that can be quite a bit and take away from getting other supplies. But I suppose I must look at property taxes as rent or protection money from the gov't being able to take my land that I worked hard to pay off.

Also I try not to criticize those who live in stinkin, noisy, money sucking, overcrowded, polluted, crime and disease filled cities so hope they will not criticize some of us who live in quiet, pure, opposite of cities in about every way paradise like areas.

I live in a city right now but it seems like hibernating until the summer and fall when I can live my Real life and lifestyle. I feel like just another worker ant in the stinkin city, even though it is a fairly small city - Greeley, CO, but on my remote mtn place I feel like the King of my mountain! Hope everyone else can also find their niche or what they want and need before it is too late.

[Beo]

Nativedude,
Great post, loved it bro very nice and straight to the point, in fact most of this thread is pretty good. Personally I welcome all the different views but there is almost never a need to offend, yeah I said almost.
Beo,

[Nativedude]

Beo,

I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm just making a point from the other side of the coin.

I have nothing against those whom choose to live the city life, I just don't consider that lifestyle. . ."much of a life"! LOL

Over the last 30+ years I've been teaching primitive living & survival skills, I've been asked, repeatedly, "how can you live this way every day?" I, immediately respond 'how can you live the way you live everyday?' Always, I get puzzled, quizzical looks from my questioners, and after a few moments of ponderous thought, they respond: "I never thought of it that way!"

I have never been afraid in the wilderness. I have spent months-on-end hiking and trekking throughout the various backcountry wilderness, like Yosemite, Yellowstone, Donner's Pass, The Black Hills & Badlands, Death Valley, Mt. Hood, Denali, Arches Nat'l. Park, and many others, living and practicing my primitive skills

When going to a town, I prefer to go to towns where you can get to know people and establish lasting relationships with merchants, restaurateurs, grocers, etc. To this day, I can go back to those different areas and they still know me. That is a really good feeling!

[Ted]

Great thread Dude, your livin' it! I know the opposition you must have had.
Just like the kid on "A Christmas Story", "You'll put your eye out", everyone probly told you, "YOU'LL DIE!" Thanks for proving them wrong!
Best to you Bro...Later, Ted

[Nativedude]

Ted wrote: "Great thread Dude, your livin' it! I know the opposition you must have had.

Just like the kid on "A Christmas Story", "You'll put your eye out", everyone probly told you, "YOU'LL DIE!" Thanks for proving them wrong!
Best to you Bro...Later, Ted"

Yes Ted, there was much opposition, and not just from family! I got it from every angle.

Living remotely is no different than living in the city. There are "routines", just like there are in the city.

You get up every day, you go to work (my work: cutting wood, hauling water, etc.) (city folk work: fighting traffic during commute to work, sit @ desk or listen to boss yap at you all day, fight traffic on way home, etc.)

A) My life. . . .serene
B) City folk life. . . .pollution, noise, stress, etc.

You choose? My choice "A"!!!

[Mtnman Mike]

Living remotely is no different than living in the city. There are "routines", just like there are in the city.

You get up every day, you go to work (my work: cutting wood, hauling water, etc.) (city folk work: fighting traffic during commute to work, sit @ desk or listen to boss yap at you all day, fight traffic on way home, etc.)

A) My life. . . .serene
B) City folk life. . . .pollution, noise, stress, etc.

You choose? My choice "A"!!!

I chose A - the wilderness in remote southern Wyoming one mile from the Divide as my retreat in 1987, as a perfect escape and hopefully soon to be permanent Lifestyle.

Some say I have the best of both worlds city and wilderness by living - I say existing - in the stinkin city from mid Nov. to June then on my mtn retreat the rest of the time.

I will have the best world whenever I will be able to move permanently up there. As seen on my homepage.

I just had to highlight the sentence: "Living remotely is no different than living in the city." for there might be some who might take that literally and think that there really is no difference.
I understand what you are saying Nativedude.
But to make it perfectly clear to any city people, living remotely in a wilderness is the Opposite of cities. As I have posted many times all over the net } Wilderness is the Opposite of cities in everyway. Cities = polluted, noisy, disease and crime filled, stressful, expensive etc. Wilderness the opposite of that.

[Rick]

I'll take "B" thanks. You left out all the advantages of living in the city. They far outweigh the negatives. I'll bet you have a long wait for the ambulance to arrive. .....just sayin'

[Pal334]

If I could, my choice would be :

A minus and a B minus

I can envison so many aspects of each that are appealing and also not appealing. That is human nature I guess, we are never totaly satisfied.

[crashdive123]

Yeah - I'd have to ask - why limit your choices to a and b? City life? - some like it, but not for everybody. Living in the woods 100 miles from civilization? - again, some like it, but its not for eveybody. As has been said, there are aspects of both that are appealing. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of members here live in neither of the two extremes, but rather someplace in between.

[Nativedude]

Mtnman Mike wrote: ". . .I just had to highlight the sentence: "Living remotely is no different than living in the city." for there might be some who might take that literally and think that there really is no difference.
I understand what you are saying Nativedude.
But to make it perfectly clear to any city people, living remotely in a wilderness is the Opposite of cities. As I have posted many times all over the net } Wilderness is the Opposite of cities in everyway. Cities = polluted, noisy, disease and crime filled, stressful, expensive etc. Wilderness the opposite of that."

Yes, I see your point Mike. My comparison of the two was in the aspect of the fact that either way you live there are routines, work, chores, upkeep, etc. in both environments. But yes, they are completely polar opposites! You certainly must be prepared to live in the remote wilderness, especially if you're going to live more than 25-50 miles from the nearest town/city.

You ain't gonna hop in the truck and "just run" to the store! You have to be prepared and stocked up!!

And, you have to be mentally & physically prepared too! But it can be done.

[rwc1969]

after driving to the city today for school I can honestly say I'm in the "doesn't want to live in the city" crowd.

Fought traffic the whole way, and if it weren't for idiots that try to do 80 when traffic is moving at 15 that wouldn't be a huge issue.

Get to the parking structure and OMG, the spiral of death, and that's before you get out of the vehicle and have to walk on foot thru the dimly lit concrete jungle gym dodging cars all the way to the stairwell.

Walk into the bathroom once inside the school and there's graffitti all over the stalls.

Some guy asks me if I got a blunt to spare. Wonder what he wanted that for?

Get into class and the flourescent lights and dust from the ventilation system got my eyes all bugged out and I was sneezing. Listening to the teacher talk about relational database models and SQLServer stuff, which was intersting to me, I was constantly distracted by all the people around me surfing the net and texting on their Blackberries and Iphones. I felt kinda isolated as I haven't owned even a cell phone in nearly 15 years. We have to design a database and all i can think about is how I can incorporate that into wilderness skills, mushrooms or the like. A wild plant database where you can plug in the time of year and location and it gives you a "what's in season" output. LOL! I think something along those lines would be neat.

Anyway, coming home it was smooth sailing with a clear sky. Between the overpasses and thru all the streetlights the stars had vanished, but I could at least still make out the moon. Looked like it could hold water. Got out of the car to come in and the smell of the air reminded me of ice fishing, cool, clean and crisp. Think I might head out in the morning and try for some bluegills.

[Nativedude]

rwc1969 wrote: "after driving to the city today for school I can honestly say I'm in the "doesn't want to live in the city" crowd.

Fought traffic the whole way, and if it weren't for idiots that try to do 80 when traffic is moving at 15 that wouldn't be a huge issue.

Get to the parking structure and OMG, the spiral of death, and that's before you get out of the vehicle and have to walk on foot thru the dimly lit concrete jungle gym dodging cars all the way to the stairwell.

Walk into the bathroom once inside the school and there's graffitti all over the stalls.

Some guy asks me if I got a blunt to spare. Wonder what he wanted that for?

Get into class and the flourescent lights and dust from the ventilation system got my eyes all bugged out and I was sneezing. Listening to the teacher talk about relational database models and SQLServer stuff, which was intersting to me, I was constantly distracted by all the people around me surfing the net and texting on their Blackberries and Iphones. I felt kinda isolated as I haven't owned even a cell phone in nearly 15 years. We have to design a database and all i can think about is how I can incorporate that into wilderness skills, mushrooms or the like. A wild plant database where you can plug in the time of year and location and it gives you a "what's in season" output. LOL! I think something along those lines would be neat.

Anyway, coming home it was smooth sailing with a clear sky. Between the overpasses and thru all the streetlights the stars had vanished, but I could at least still make out the moon. Looked like it could hold water. Got out of the car to come in and the smell of the air reminded me of ice fishing, cool, clean and crisp. Think I might head out in the morning and try for some bluegills."

RWC, sounds like Detroit and WSU?!

[Mtnman Mike]

I just also want to say that I hope most, even 99% of people stay in cities and away from the wilderness. Although there are too many who have built fancy cabins all over the Rocky Mountains, which is the area of my experience.
I am sure that other states and even Canada also have former wild areas that are now overdeveloped.

The more people who move to wild areas, the less wild it is.

Also cities are good especially for those with money and insurance etc. etc. For instance an ambulance would do me no good for I could not afford the terrible expense.
I was injured once on my mtn land and drove myself to the nearest doctor 30 miles away in Saratoga, WY. Long story which ended well and it cost me no more than fifty bucks.
Which is the most I can afford...

Some of us would be considered no better than poverty stricken homeless in cities but in the wilderness and especially on my remote mtn place I am the King of the mountain... nuff said.

[your_comforting_company]

Long story which ended well and it cost me no more than fifty bucks.
Which is the most I can afford...

Some of us would be considered no better than poverty stricken homeless in cities but in the wilderness and especially on my remote mtn place I am the King of the mountain... nuff said.

If I needed medical attention right now, I couldn't afford it either. If I lived in the big city, I'd be considered dirt poor and would probably be homeless on account of all the daily expenses.. taxi's , parking, lunch, rent, etc.
At least down here in what's left of rural America, I can grow my own food, house is paid for, and daily expenses are almost nil.

[crashdive123]

Anybody that walks into a hospital emergency room right now is treated, even if they have no means to pay for it.