Permaculture farming in central New Brunswick, Canada

[Permaculturist]

Hiya all,

We will soon be closing a deal on a 40 acre piece of land in NB, and plan to turn it into a permaculture farm. Now, we're not new to bushcraft, or small scale farming, and I have done tons of research over the years, but for the most part I am a citiot when it comes to practical experience. Also, we have only been living in this incredible province since May, and, having never been here before, or knowing anyone out here before moving here, we are at a disadvantage in the networking department.

We are interested in meeting with anyone else in the province who is homesteading, and especially, anyone who is practicing permaculture. We want to get a plan together for the layout of the property, and real world experience trumps book smarts in my world. We also want to network with like minded folks so we can barter between us, and share resources and skills. Lets face it, tough times are coming, and going it alone will be a hard.

We won't be able to qualify for our hunting or fishing licenses until Nov 13, and I have a lot of questions about the regulations out here. To me they sound very draconian (storing big game meat after June 30 is illegal !) which concerns me, maybe more than it should, but I came from Southern Ontario, which is pretty much a police state.

Basically, we just want to make new friends with people who understand what is going on, and are doing something about it. We can also barter accounting (wife is a CMA) and computer (I owned a computer company for 11 years) services for ??

Derek.

[wareagle69]

well i for one will be interested in hearing your results, i too moved from the city to the country and have had an interesting time learning about farm life, at the wild edibles course i went to a few years ago, permaculture was brought to my attention, good luck, oh yeah what is with the eat the meat by june deal, are you saying that a deer i take in october has to be eaten by june? good law in my opinion, maybe my father in law should read it

[Permaculturist]

oh yeah what is with the eat the meat by june deal, are you saying that a deer i take in october has to be eaten by june? good law in my opinion, maybe my father in law should read it

Yes. I have confirmed this with the DNR. All big game meat becomes illegal to possess on July 1 of the following year. There's a spring bear hunt here too, which makes this even more ludicrous in my opinion. Apparently, this is in place to stop poachers. So, law abiding citizens are again expected to fork over their rights, as guaranteed by our Charter of Rights, a document that seems meaningless to our government these days.

d

[wareagle69]

ha, my father in law thretened to kill me cuz i took deer meat out of his freezer(wrong maybe) but the year before i watched him throw out two hundred pounds of wild meat from the last few years he did not eat, his freezer is full, i am sure the old fart is poaching meat, he will kill anything and put it in his freezer, it has caused a big war in the family, the wife is worried what he will do, the problem is, is that i am good friends with a couple of mnr guys and we have some in the family, one phone call and he will never be able to hunt again, if i was vindictive i woukld have done it, i just hate with a passion the blatant waste of wild life, if you have to hunt to eat great, i just had some grouse for lunch last week, but we only took what we ate right on the spot, he is why some folks get a bad name and these laws are in effect, sometimes they are good sometimes not..

[canid]

ouch. i'm absolutely saddened and often angered by the waste of any food, let alone meat, since it's one of the the most resource intensive to produce, by us or in nature.

tell him if he ever needs to clear freezer space again, i will accept COD shipments.

[LudwigVan]

Hiya all,

We won't be able to qualify for our hunting or fishing licenses until Nov 13, and I have a lot of questions about the regulations out here. To me they sound very draconian (storing big game meat after June 30 is illegal !) which concerns me, maybe more than it should, but I came from Southern Ontario, which is pretty much a police state.

I'm sorry, but if people up there actually take crap like that seriously, you are practically asking to be controlled. So you're "not allowed" to store big game meat over the summer? Big deal, do it anyway. Do they actually go around looking through peoples freezers for leftover elk or something?

[wareagle69]

uh actually yes as a matter of fact they can and do. they have more power than the cops do

[Permaculturist]

I'm sorry, but if people up there actually take crap like that seriously, you are practically asking to be controlled. So you're "not allowed" to store big game meat over the summer? Big deal, do it anyway. Do they actually go around looking through peoples freezers for leftover elk or something?

My problem is this -- if the law is on the books, and you're the type of guy, like me, that doesn't stand for bull**** laws, and fights to change them, you give them an opportunity to nail you on something simple in order to shut you up somewhere else. They don't need warrants, and if I am becoming too much of a pain in someone's ***, all they need to do is nail me on this law in retaliation. For this reason, I can't let it stand, and plan to fight it on the grounds that it infringes on section 7 of the Canadian Charter - the right to life.

Remember, they couldn't get Capone on racketeering, so they went after him for tax evasion. The result was the same.

d

[rwc1969]

This sounds similar to our law on bag/ possesion limits. According to the law you cannot posses more than your daily bag limit.

So, if over the course of months a feller gets several daily limits and stores them in his freezer it's against the law.

The daily limit for panfish is 25 per day. at times I've had 300+ in possesion. squirrels is 5 per day. At times I've had 10+. Unknowingly, I was breaking the law. And, supposedly, due to precedence, the DNR could come in under suspicion without warrant and search my freezer.

I would think they need a warrant, but some people say no.?? I'm not worried about it as the law is set up mostly for poachers, but it does bother me that such vague laws exist and that the DNR has been given authority that is questionably in violation of our country's most basic laws.

[Rick]

Okay...for any government types...RWC was posting a hypothetical situation to help with the explanation. He really DIDN'T violate the law although I admit it sort of looks like it. He really meant that as an abject lesson...right RWC (nudge nudge)?

[crashdive123]

Rick - have you noticed how many IP addresses that end in .DNR or .GOV have been viewing this thread?

[rwc1969]

Yes Rick!

[Rick]

Holy cow! No, I didn't even notice them. I was looking at the ones that ended in .ca.

I have no guns or ammo and no meat in the freezer...

[ClayPick]

If you haven’t come across it yet, there is a publication called Rural Delivery. It links Atlantic Canada's rural and small scale farming community. There are lots of folks doing some real neat stuff with their land.
As for the meat in the fridge? I don’t know about anyone ever getting busted for having a little wild game or fish in their fridge if it was taken with a valid licence.
I often wonder if people realize just how big a problem poaching can be. Venison sells for top dollar Montreal and Toronto. A bunch (organized crime) got caught here with over 200 deer carcasses!

[ClayPick]

My problem is this -- if the law is on the books, and you're the type of guy, like me, that doesn't stand for bull**** laws, and fights to change them, you give them an opportunity to nail you on something simple in order to shut you up somewhere else. They don't need warrants, and if I am becoming too much of a pain in someone's ***, all they need to do is nail me on this law in retaliation. For this reason, I can't let it stand, and plan to fight it on the grounds that it infringes on section 7 of the Canadian Charter - the right to life.

Remember, they couldn't get Capone on racketeering, so they went after him for tax evasion. The result was the same.

d

As to challenging the law, most of the Deer and Bear that make it through the winter are the survivors and the breeding stock. A lot of a holes would be knocking them off and saying the meat was from last season. Even if you do the right thing you still have to pay the price for the idiots.

I think the answer you would get would be something like that.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

This sounds similar to our law on bag/ possesion limits. According to the law you cannot posses more than your daily bag limit.

So, if over the course of months a feller gets several daily limits and stores them in his freezer it's against the law.

The daily limit for panfish is 25 per day. at times I've had 300+ in possesion. squirrels is 5 per day. At times I've had 10+. Unknowingly, I was breaking the law. And, supposedly, due to precedence, the DNR could come in under suspicion without warrant and search my freezer.

I would think they need a warrant, but some people say no.?? I'm not worried about it as the law is set up mostly for poachers, but it does bother me that such vague laws exist and that the DNR has been given authority that is questionably in violation of our country's most basic laws.

Your interpretation of US Bag limits is wrong. It is exactly as inferred BAG LIMIT pertains to your possesion while hunting and not the meat in your freezer. Bag Limit refers to on your person while hunting.... Hope this clears it up for you.

[rwc1969]

I should have been more clear I guess. My point was that here in MI the daily/ bag limit equals the total possesion limit for most species of fish and game.

For almost all fish, the daily limit equals the total possesion limit. i.e. 25 sunfish in any combination is the daily/ total possesion limit. Hypothetically, I have way more than 25 in my freezer right now. For small game, the total possesion limit is usually double the bag limit. i.e. In our zone, we have 3 zones in Michigan all with different regulations, you are allowed a 5 squirrel bag limit/ 10 in total possesion. I can limit out most every day I go squirrel hunting. Our squirrel season lasts 5-1/2 months. I could "squirrel" away many squirrels in that amount of time. And, hypothetically, I DO!!! And I eat every single one of them. We have pet squirrels too! I don't eat them.

Hypothetically, plenty of people store more than their daily/ bag limit in their freezer, etc. So, hypothetically, most people in Michigan that succesfully hunt or fish and properly utilize the game are likely in violation of the Total possesion limit eventhough they obey the "in the field" daily/ bag limits.

As far as the DNR knockin on my door, I'd be more afraid of seeing Jennifer Granholm come shootin down my chimney come Christmas time to claim tax on all our gifts. LOL!

Bottom line: The law is written like that so they can nail poachers with one more charge if caught. I doubt very much they care how many bluegills Joe Schmoe has in his freezer as long as he isn't selling them.

[crashdive123]

Learned something new. All this time I thought bag limits referred to something that took place after a late night in a saloon and ending up having to use bags (one, two, or three) to keep from having to see your new date. Thanks guys.

[Rick]

Eeeeeeew. Sure glad I married young.

[Permaculturist]

If you haven’t come across it yet, there is a publication called Rural Delivery. It links Atlantic Canada's rural and small scale farming community. There are lots of folks doing some real neat stuff with their land.

Thanks for the heads up on this. Here is their website, for anyone else interested - http://www.countrymagazines.com/rd.html .

d