Bayonet

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Rick,

Good points, I have seen that side of it too. If you have the right project with enough $$$ value you get support a plenty. Smaller projects have eluded me repeatedly. After a company adapts the culture all the low hangin' fruit dries up.

[Rick]

The sad part is if a company would stand firm on its principles then the savings can be substantial if the project management is handled the way it's suppose to be. But it's a long step between theory and practice.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

It was the hardest discipline to learn and that is what it takes a disciplined approach. Companies with a strong QMS with committment focused on "Continual Improvement" should be able to support the requirements. So, yes it boils down to management responsibility. Welcome to the world I live in! Through implementing these types of programs my company has driven cost to a level that allows us to compete with Mexico labor rates. We are now the worlds largest industrial battery manufacture. The facility where I work manufactures the steel chests for batteries in electric forktrucks, Navy ships, Coal Mine equipment, etc as well as seismic rated steel racks and stationary steel battery cases for cell phone towers, data backup systems, and railroad crossings, etc. We have an electric tugboat trial and electric sport utility trials in the works. We just designed a hydrogen fuel cell for a forklift as well as lithium Ion for forklifts. The fuel cell was the highlight of my engineering career. We have just landed the Sears Diehard contract for the next 9 yrs. We also manufacture Deep Cycle and Marine Batteries. I have had the pleasure of auditing all of the Americas Facilities. I am responsible for ISO 9001:2008, UL listing, and MSHA certification. So far were holding up in this economy at about 20% decrease in sales.

[Rick]

I am responsible for ISO 9001:2008, UL listing, and MSHA certification.

And that's before lunch! Seriously, that's a heavy agenda. The basic formula for success is increased revenue + decreased expenses. The real agenda for manufacturing, however, is improved productivity. How do you find time to work on knives?

[glockcop]

Any one ever considered a bayonet on a home defense shotgun? I had the idea and was brainstorming if it was practical. I am not suggesting it just wanted to ponder it a bit.

A home defense shotgun will likely have an 18" barrel. This is the shortest legal length by Federal Law. This is still in the "long" ballpark for room to room entry work. A bayonet will do no more than add unwanted and unweildly length to your weapon and be counter productive to good tacticle utility. God forbid you ever have to use it and some slick dirt bag defense attorney (No Offense Ken) displays it in court to paint you to a jury as an "Out for blood murderer". The good guy has a hard enough time defending themselves in court without making the defence's job easier for them. I'd pass on the sh*t sticker. After that mouthful, here goes....It does look cool though doesn't it.

[2dumb2kwit]

and some slick dirt bag defense attorney (No Offense Ken) displays it in court to paint you to a jury as an "Out for blood murderer". The good guy has a hard enough time defending themselves in court without making the defence's job easier for them.

I've heard tell of...uh hum...some guys being told, in their conceal carry class, NOT to shoot a really tight group, when they qualify....for this very reason.

[glockcop]

I've heard tell of...uh hum...some guys being told, in their conceal carry class, NOT to shoot a really tight group, when they qualify....for this very reason.

That is pure CRAP! You should shoot as well as you can every time you "qualify". There is similar stupidity going around the cop world also. It does not make sense. Remember the defense attorney painting YOU as the wrong doer. Here goes...."My client was accidentally shot by an ill trained Rambo type when he was doing nothing illegal and minding his business". It is the cops or ccw holder's fault. As a cop I can tell you ,YOU will be guilty until proven innocent in court , within the department (internal affairs), and in front of the Grand Jury. It can go both ways. You should be able to show on paper your ability to carry out the willful intent to defend yourself or in a cop's case uphold the law. ALWAYS shoot to the best of your ability on paper for a "qualification", PERIOD!

[2dumb2kwit]

The way I've heard it, is "If 'he' can shoot that good, 'he' could have shot to disable the person, rather than kill him."

I just hope that I never find out, for myself.

[glockcop]

The way I've heard it, is "If 'he' can shoot that good, 'he' could have shot to disable the person, rather than kill him."

I just hope that I never find out, for myself.

You are not trained to "shoot to disable" or "shoot to stop the threat" or whatever flowerful crap fluff trainers used to say. That is old and out dated information. As a ccw or a cop you are trained to "shoot to kill" because that is the intent. That is the taught terminolgy in Police Academies across the country. If you did not intend to kill the suspect, then you could have used other means to bring closure to the incident. Since you chose lethal force there was no other alternative. Lethal force means "WILLFUL INTENT TO KILL". THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SEMI LETHAL FORCE aka "shooting to wound or disable". The end.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Night before last At 12:04 I was awake and heard smackk zzzzz smack! Immediately......I was stalking the yard with my Colt .38 and it would have been a mistake for anyone who was there....Honestly the protection of my family makes any laws residual....

[Boker]

A home defense shotgun will likely have an 18" barrel. This is the shortest legal length by Federal Law. This is still in the "long" ballpark for room to room entry work. A bayonet will do no more than add unwanted and unweildly length to your weapon and be counter productive to good tacticle utility. God forbid you ever have to use it and some slick dirt bag defense attorney (No Offense Ken) displays it in court to paint you to a jury as an "Out for blood murderer". The good guy has a hard enough time defending themselves in court without making the defence's job easier for them. I'd pass on the sh*t sticker. After that mouthful, here goes....It does look cool though doesn't it.

I'd like to see Ken's thoughts on that, (Not the offense part). Could it be used in court against you?

[glockcop]

Night before last At 12:04 I was awake and heard smackk zzzzz smack! Immediately......I was stalking the yard with my Colt .38 and it would have been a mistake for anyone who was there....Honestly the protection of my family makes any laws residual....

Cowboy, I can't agree more. If I have to use lethal force it will result in a dead bad guy, not a wounded one. My qualification scores will also reflect that it was a willful decision to kill due to there not being an alternative. Nothing accidental about it. Brother, believe me, I hope you never have to face that decision and all the sh*t that comes with it. Best.

[glockcop]

I'd like to see Ken's thoughts on that, (Not the offense part). Could it be used in court against you?

Boker, apparently you have not spent much time around criminal court and God bless you for it. An attorney's job is to create doubt in the minds of the jury members. Anything goes in the dirty world of who can spin the best yarn (court). Any tactic to cause doubt and/or confusion will be used. I've seen it many times. Your character will be challenged on anything the defence can trump up or create up to the point of irrelavence. As said earlier no offense Ken. This is not ment as an attack on you personally or your professsion. By the way ya'll....This thread has gotten way off track. Lets try to help cowboy out with info pertinant to his question.

[Rick]

Hey CS. Did you ever figure out what went smackk zzzzz smack?

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

The herd boss may have kicked one of the other horses....they are behind the house. I can't say for sure. No evidence of a shot fired was left.

[2dumb2kwit]

An attorney's job is to create doubt in the minds of the jury members. Anything goes in the dirty world of who can spin the best yarn (court). Any tactic to cause doubt and/or confusion will be used. I've seen it many times. Your character will be challenged on anything the defence can trump up or create up to the point of irrelavence.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone, with what I posted. All of the stuff I posted was referring to what would make it easier in court. (For the reasons you just explained.)

I agree with you guys. Defending yourself and your family is priority #1.

[2dumb2kwit]

I'd like to see Ken's thoughts on that, (Not the offense part). Could it be used in court against you?

I kinda doubt that Ken can answer this. If he did, then that would kinda make him responsible for anyone who acted on his advice.

IMHO, anything that a lawyer can get people (a jury) to believe, could be used against you. That's why I think that if you ever need a lawyer, you need to cough up the money and get the best one around. I would want to be sure that the guy trying to keep me out of jail, is better than the guy trying to put me in jail!

Mind you...this is all just my opinion, and we all know that I'm not very smart! LOL

[glockcop]

I kinda doubt that Ken can answer this. If he did, then that would kinda make him responsible for anyone who acted on his advice.

IMHO, anything that a lawyer can get people (a jury) to believe, could be used against you. That's why I think that if you ever need a lawyer, you need to cough up the money and get the best one around. I would want to be sure that the guy trying to keep me out of jail, is better than the guy trying to put me in jail!

Mind you...this is all just my opinion, and we all know that I'm not very smart! LOL

You are a smart man. lawyers are great when they are on your side. A really good Def. Att. can make you the criminal in the minds of the jury real quick like. Best

[2dumb2kwit]

Hey COWBOY....if you get you a Mosin M1891 w/bayo, you could stick the bad guys before they even get in the same room, with you! LOL
(Those suckers are loooong!)

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Glock,

All good points. I agree I think long guns are probably not the way to go on the inside. I also agree about the length of the bayonet on the inside. I think though if I persue clearing the property as I did the other night. I would reach for my 870 instead of the pistol though. I have a large property and alot of it is wooded. Clearing an outside threat might make the bayonet useful especially if I wind up close unknowingly. I kinda doubt that who in the heck would hang around long being stalked by a cowboy in his underwear!