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Thread: HELP w/Bugging In in NYC

  1. #21
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Thanks Remy!

    I've been wondering whether it's safe to cook indoors
    (if gas & electricity are out) without any ventilation--
    in case you have to seal the windows etc.
    What about stocking RMEs for 6 months?
    Or a boatload of hi cal. Datrex bars?


  2. #22
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Benesse - You have some preparations already although you may not know you have them. If you live in an apartment, you probably have a 40 gallon hot water heater. If in a home, perhaps a 50 gallon water heater. That's also a fresh water storage tank. Learn where your water shut off is so you can turn the water off to your dwelling if you have to. That way you can ensure your water supply is not contaminated. You will also need to turn the power off to your hot water heater. So you need to know how to do that.

    Your hot water heater should have a drain plug on the bottom of it. You can use it to extract the water just like an outside faucet.

    The tanks on the back of your toilet can also serve as a water supply assuming you don't put those water treatment thingies in it. It's fresh water coming in.

    The rule for bathroom usage is:

    If it's yellow let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down.

    Kinda grose but gets the point across.

    If you look around your home I'll bet you can find all kinds of things you can use if something bad happened.

    Have a yardstick? You have a splint. Think multi-use.

  3. #23
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    I totally agree about water.
    That part is and has always been non-negotiable for us.
    I haven't brought it up because I assumed everyone else felt the same way.
    When it comes to food I can exist and function quite well on what most
    would consider third world survival.

    My biggest concern is unrest and violence.
    If you take that away everything else becomes a bit easier to tackle.
    Barring of course the obvious. (nuclear, germ, chemical)

  4. #24
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    i think in a big city you should look down as a means to get out..

  5. #25
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    By the way, Remy. Nice post on the pics!

  6. #26
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Graffixx808, it really depends on the circumstances.
    In my case it would be the last resort when staying in would without a doubt guarantee
    misery & death.
    I intend to be prepared for either contingency to the best of my ability but some of the more extreme measures as described in the book "Patriot" (which I loved and learned a lot from) are just not realistic for me. My path would have to be different and hopefully just as successful.
    Last edited by BENESSE; 07-07-2009 at 08:34 PM.

  7. #27
    Quality Control Director Ken's Avatar
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    I'm guessing that storage space is at a premium for you. Have you considered purchasing a few collapsable water storage bags, which could be filled quickly and otherwise kept collapsed and stored out of sight? Just consider the load bearing capacity of your floors if you choose this option for water storage. Here's one of several sites that offer similar products:

    http://www.bayteccontainers.com/waterbags.html
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  8. #28
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Ken, this is a grand idea!
    Never heard of these bags but we could sure use them.
    You are right, space is at a premium, (even roaches have pay rent)
    and we have to be extremely smart and efficient in what we keep
    on hand. Water is a #1 priority of course.

    Does anyone know whether store-bought water in sealed jugs can keep indefinitely?
    Like distilled, spring, etc? I've noticed on occasion (when I rotate) that some of the plastic jugs & bottles start caving in a bit even though they're stored upright in a dark space. (This would be after a year or so) Seems like the plastic degenerates after a while and I wonder if it's safe.
    It is better than nothing, but if it could be made safer, why not?

  9. #29
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BENESSE View Post
    Ken, this is a grand idea!
    Never heard of these bags but we could sure use them.
    You are right, space is at a premium, (even roaches have pay rent)
    and we have to be extremely smart and efficient in what we keep
    on hand. Water is a #1 priority of course.

    Does anyone know whether store-bought water in sealed jugs can keep indefinitely?
    Like distilled, spring, etc? I've noticed on occasion (when I rotate) that some of the plastic jugs & bottles start caving in a bit even though they're stored upright in a dark space. (This would be after a year or so) Seems like the plastic degenerates after a while and I wonder if it's safe.
    It is better than nothing, but if it could be made safer, why not?
    If your unopened water containers are stored in a cool, dry place they will last for a long time. I rotate my water supply periodically out of an abundance of caution. Ken had a good idea. If you have time, you can fill the stored containers. Of course, having advanced notice is the key. Here's a picture of another type of collapsible container (5 gallon) that is readily available in a variety of stores.

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  10. #30
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    You can also keep purification equipment on hand. That could range from bleach to purification tablets, to purification straws or backpacker filters. Lot's of options in this category. It will allow you to convert questionable water into drinking water. None of them will remove heavy metals or salt water but you could use fountains, ponds, bird baths or swimming pools as a fresh water source.

  11. #31

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    Last edited by remy; 08-18-2009 at 03:34 PM.

  12. #32
    Senior Member SARKY's Avatar
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    Benesse,
    Also check out the Camelbak squad pack, it holds 26 liters of water and is designed to be carried as a backpack. If you have to travel to get water or if you have to bug out with as much water as you can carry this is a plus. Camelbak also offers a wide range of hydration backpacks from which you can build your BOB.
    I know what hunts you.

  13. #33
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Huge help everyone!!! LOVE the pics.
    Can't thank you enough.
    I'll be ordering and testing some options soon.
    In a way it's a good thing that we're surrounded
    by water. (as long as we don't have to cross it)

    P.S. I'm in a high-rise bldg. so no water heaters visible or accessible.

  14. #34
    Senior Member SARKY's Avatar
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    Where on the island are you? West side? lower East? These would also determine the viability of getting out of the city. The other question you should ask yourself is which direction would you go. south to Jersey, north east to long island or just north or west? Do you have acess to the roof? This would give you the option of creaitng a rain catch or possibly puting a raised bed garden up there. Just some things to think about. If you had to get out of dodge fast think about which would be the quickest way out. obviously the Linclon, Holland and Queens mid town tunnels will be jammed as will all the bridges. Most people won't head for the ferries until last resort unless this is their normal means of getting in and out of the city. So you go there first. One other thing to look at investing in is one of the kiddie jogging strollers(the ones with the big bicycle wheels) They fold flat, you can push/haul them over rough terrain and use it to transport you survival gear (buldle it up so it looks like you have a kid in there). Most people will help a family with a young child and you won't be targeted as having goodies to steal as you would if you had packs on your back.
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  15. #35
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benesse
    I'm in a high-rise bldg. so no water heaters visible or accessible.
    That could work to your advantage. My guess is your hot water may be coming from a boiler then. That means LOTS of water. You would just need to find out where it is located (basement, maintenance room, etc.) Might be something you could ask the super. Something like, "I've been giving 911 a lot of thought. If we had a similar problem, how do guys control the water and electricity?" kind of thing. "Can you show us?" If you have a building committee perhaps it's something that can be brought forward to them. In any case, if you plan to bug in and something does happen I'd be looking for that tank of water.

  16. #36
    Senior Member SARKY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trax View Post
    Nice job Remy, I'll trade ya that first aid kit for...hmmm...I dunno...some French Marine MRE's?
    Are those the ones with the wine ration in them???
    I know what hunts you.

  17. #37
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    That could work to your advantage. My guess is your hot water may be coming from a boiler then. That means LOTS of water. You would just need to find out where it is located (basement, maintenance room, etc.) Might be something you could ask the super. Something like, "I've been giving 911 a lot of thought. If we had a similar problem, how do guys control the water and electricity?" kind of thing. "Can you show us?" If you have a building committee perhaps it's something that can be brought forward to them. In any case, if you plan to bug in and something does happen I'd be looking for that tank of water.
    That's definitely on my "to do" list--broaching the subject with the Super & the Bldg. Board. Figuring out exactly how as to not scare them into denial is a job in itself.

    I am involved in a neighborhood organization and brought up once the idea of shelters
    (do we have them, where are they, are the neighbors aware, etc...) and neighborhood preparedness in case of apt. evacuation. They had Red Cross give a talk at a poorly attended meeting, but the idea of community shelters (not the old govt. fallout shelters) was not broached.
    The mindset in NYC is just not the same as say in Utah, and in this case, I wish it was.
    We need it more than most.

  18. #38
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SARKY View Post
    Where on the island are you? West side? lower East? These would also determine the viability of getting out of the city. The other question you should ask yourself is which direction would you go. south to Jersey, north east to long island or just north or west? Do you have acess to the roof? This would give you the option of creaitng a rain catch or possibly puting a raised bed garden up there. Just some things to think about. If you had to get out of dodge fast think about which would be the quickest way out. obviously the Linclon, Holland and Queens mid town tunnels will be jammed as will all the bridges. Most people won't head for the ferries until last resort unless this is their normal means of getting in and out of the city. So you go there first. One other thing to look at investing in is one of the kiddie jogging strollers(the ones with the big bicycle wheels) They fold flat, you can push/haul them over rough terrain and use it to transport you survival gear (buldle it up so it looks like you have a kid in there). Most people will help a family with a young child and you won't be targeted as having goodies to steal as you would if you had packs on your back.
    I'm on the Upper East.
    There are several options of getting out but my problem is that I haven't
    figured out my ultimate destination.
    Without an end game plan, the idea of just wandering around aimlessly
    seems more dangerous (for me personally) than staying put.
    My wilderness survival skills are extremely limited and haven't been put to the test.
    Urban survival skills have, to some extent.
    So at the moment, I have to be intellectually honest about my ability to handle different scenarios. The plans will evolve as my skills do.

  19. #39
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    BENESSE - I was going to suggest that you form some sort of neighborhood watch or coalition in your building. It sounds as though you may have done something like that already. In the event of an emergency, knowing your neighbors and having worked on preparedness plans together will make sheltering in place so much easier than trying to go it alone. Additionally, if it comes to a situation where you must leave, doing so in a small group may give you the added security and resources that might be difficult on your own.
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  20. #40
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Is anyone familiar with or has actually tried Survival Tabs?
    http://www.campingsurvival.com/surtabnewcon.html

    Their nutritional content and a shelf life of 10+ years
    make them a potentially decent addition to MREs, etc.

    Is there anything to it or is it just another gimmick?
    You guys have been around the block in these matters
    a lot longer than I so I trust your opinion.

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