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Thread: carrying a firearm illegaly in a state park

  1. #21
    Always Vigilant glocker36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saiga7 View Post
    well IMO, that would all depends. like how far they are from me and are they armed or not? if he's far enough, unarmed and won't back down from my pointing a gun at him, i will fire a warning shot.
    You only shoot if you have the legal right to shoot.

    When can you use deadly force? If you face immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent. All items must be present

    If you have time to think about firing a warning shot, you do not feel that way. At least that is the way that a jury will see it.

    Also, remember, because of the adenaline running through your system, your fine motor skills are going to be shot, and if you accidentally shoot someone else with that warning shot, they have a term for it.....Manslaughter


  2. #22
    Senior Member nell67's Avatar
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    I carry a gun for personal protection,I am 5'1" 105 lbs and had someone try to break in my house when my children was small ,my youngest was 3 months old at the time.This person knew that 1.my husband waas not home,2.I was in bed,3 I was undressed at the time,I am not saying this to be funny I was scared to death at the time,and I did not own a gun so when I heard them trying to enter through the front door,I had just layed down,I was pi**ed at my husband for not being home when he said he would,and was not going to sleep anytime soon,the only thing I could do at the time was go into the kitchen and grab a knife out of the drawer,which happened to be right next to the door the person was trying to enter,by the time my husband came home,I was furious,I was scared and I was on the phone to 911 ,cops were there a short time later but husband walked in thinking I was pulling some sort of joke until he got a good look at his wife sitting on the couch naked ,holding a butcher knife, crying ,on the phone with the police,made him think again about leaving me and the kids home alone after dark with nothing but a knife to protect myself and the kids with.
    The cops suggested the hand gun,and trained me how and when to use it,even though I had shot guns all my life growing up.

    I would use it in a heartbeat no matter where I am to protect me or my family.
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    Nell, MLT (ASCP)

  3. #23
    missing in action trax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nell67 View Post
    I would use it in a heartbeat no matter where I am to protect me or my family.

    and there's the bottom line, good for you Nell. We're pals, right?

    So we have a machete packing owl_girl and a pistol packin' Momma
    some fella confronted me the other day and asked "What's your problem?" So I told him, "I don't have a problem I am a problem"

  4. #24
    Senior Member nell67's Avatar
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    yup trax we're pals LOL
    Soular powered by the son.

    Nell, MLT (ASCP)

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by glocker36 View Post
    You only shoot if you have the legal right to shoot.

    When can you use deadly force? If you face immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent. All items must be present
    well the premise of my question is already in a place where it's illegal to carry a concealed firearm, therefore cannot be legal at all.

    When can you use deadly force? If you face immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent. All items must be present

    If you have time to think about firing a warning shot, you do not feel that way. At least that is the way that a jury will see it.
    there's no formula for how the jury would feel. you can't predict the jury, their race, background, creed, political persuasion, etc... all of the above applies to the level of competency of the State's attorney prosecuting the case also. then there's the level of competency of my attorney(s).....especially during jury selection. if i'm rich w/o priors and this is a pro-gun state....i'd have an enormously better chance.

    and back to the scenario, if i fire a warning shot and he keeps advancing ....while i have no escape (ie. trapped in an alley w/a deadend.....i don't see why it wouldn't help prove my case that i'd actually gave him the chance of the warning shot(s).

    Also, remember, because of the adenaline running through your system, your fine motor skills are going to be shot, and if you accidentally shoot someone else with that warning shot, they have a term for it.....Manslaughter
    well sure, that's a given. .

  6. #26

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    maybe i'm reading too much into this common gun class phrase of "don't pull it if you're not prepared to use it".

    to me, being prepared....is having my finger on the trigger. next step is to point it and try to talk down the situation and avoiding shooting anyone. i consider the sight of a gun a huge deterrent factor (based on personal experience). i may die one day because of thinking this way, but that's the choice i chose to take.

    here's another slight incident that i recalled. i was trying to sell a modified Mustang 5.0 they are highly sought after by thieves due to the aftermarket parts on modified ones being easily sold. 2 guys came to my house. i didn't see any car. they either were dropped off or took the bus. this is highly unusual.

    there were incidents where the interested buyer didn't have a car and asked me to meet them at a metro station. this made sense and i didn't mind going there. but these 2 came to my house. and it was a very warm day to be walking. my gut instinct tells me something's wrong with this picture. so they asked for a test drive. i said ok and took off my jacket and walked towards my house (saying i needed to get my license) ......this revealed that i had pistol in my back holster. it was stainless steel so very visable. when i came out, they said that they've decided that the test drive was unnecessary because the price is out of their range and they had to leave.

    mind you, i was in a business suit (back from work) and clean cut. and this was right in front of my house in a good neighborhood. now i only meet people at malls and such to show my cars for sale.

  7. #27
    missing in action trax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saiga7 View Post

    mind you, i was in a business suit (back from work) and clean cut. and this was right in front of my house in a good neighborhood. now i only meet people at malls and such to show my cars for sale.
    LMAO, so people? Only poorly dressed, shabby looking guys in bad neighborhoods shoot people? Not trying to pick on you saiga and I know what you meant is what just the wording when I read it I guess.
    some fella confronted me the other day and asked "What's your problem?" So I told him, "I don't have a problem I am a problem"

  8. #28

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    maybe they had cash on them to buy the car and were afraid that i was going to jack them up. i was asking $10,500 for the car and this was in 1993, so that's a lot of disposable income 14 yrs ago. and these two guys didn't look older than 20.

    if i placed that ad to lure unexpecting buyers to my house to rob them, i'd have to also kill them and dispose of their bodies each time, lol. but still easily traceable...ie. before i go anywhere unusual or to look at a car....after mapquesting the directions, i'd send an email to my mommy of my exact destinations, purpose and timeframe....then i'd carbon copy that to another email acct....should the situation arises, i'd give it to my captors to show that i did document all the names, addresses, phone#'s, etc...

  9. #29
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Wink Here's how I see it!

    Quote Originally Posted by saiga7 View Post
    well the premise of my question is already in a place where it's illegal to carry a concealed firearm, therefore cannot be legal at all.



    there's no formula for how the jury would feel. you can't predict the jury, their race, background, creed, political persuasion, etc... all of the above applies to the level of competency of the State's attorney prosecuting the case also. then there's the level of competency of my attorney(s).....especially during jury selection. if i'm rich w/o priors and this is a pro-gun state....i'd have an enormously better chance.

    and back to the scenario, if i fire a warning shot and he keeps advancing ....while i have no escape (ie. trapped in an alley w/a deadend.....i don't see why it wouldn't help prove my case that i'd actually gave him the chance of the warning shot(s).



    well sure, that's a given. .
    It's all going depend upon which one of us is facing the danger. If a guy comes after me with his bare hands I don't think I'd "Lone Ranger" his butt with a .44 when a baseball bat would probably take care of him and is easier to reload. A knife? That might be different, and if he's packin' heat I'd probably get outta dodge unless I'm penned in, then it's the OK Corral! The old saying goes "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6." Today it seems that the bad guys get better treatment in the counts than their victims so they can be my victim and I'll be the bad guy.
    SARGE
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocker36 View Post
    First, understand that if you ever have to draw your weapon you need to be ready to use it. NEVER draw a firearm unless you are willing to use it and have a legal right to use it. Brandishing will definitely get you arrested and charged in the best case, in the worst case, you will get the gun taken away from you by the bad guy.

    Second, get good training on how/when you can legally use it and understand that if you actually have to shoot someone, that you life will most likely be hell on earth for the near future including arrest, loss of friends, possible loss of job possible loss of marriage etc.

    As one of my instructors said in class, even the death of a scumbag is treated as the death of a citizen and you will be run through the system, including arrest, prosecution and possibly jail time and civil court even if you were right.

    The ONLY upside of using a firearm is that you will be alive. Which is the whole idea, but understand the HUGE downside also and factor that into your decision.

    Sorry for being such a downer, but contemplating the use of lethal force is about as serious as you can get. Too many people get into it WAY too lightly. If you are carrying, legal or illegal, you need to decide ahead of time what you are willing to take a life over.
    i agree you will probably be arrested but then you have to deal with your consious ( not sure how to spell it sry guys) and know all your life that you killed someone

  11. #31
    missing in action trax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by man.vs.wild View Post
    i agree you will probably be arrested but then you have to deal with your consious ( not sure how to spell it sry guys) and know all your life that you killed someone

    I'll defer to Nell's earlier statement on this one. Funny thing, I know I don't like feeling guilty, but I'm just really, really, really sure that I won't like feeling dead.
    some fella confronted me the other day and asked "What's your problem?" So I told him, "I don't have a problem I am a problem"

  12. #32
    Senior Member Tony uk's Avatar
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    I like self defense training instead of guns, Because if you misplace your weapon your done but its prity hard to misplace parts of your body to use in defense
    A wise person does at once, what a fool does at last. Both do the same thing; only at different times.

  13. #33
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Question Okay TUK, answer me this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony uk View Post
    I like self defense training instead of guns, Because if you misplace your weapon your done but its prity hard to misplace parts of your body to use in defense
    Here's a straight forward "American-style" question regarding what you just posted: "How do you Karate-chop a .45 slug?"
    SARGE
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
    Albert Einstein

    Proud father of a US Marine....SEMPER FI!

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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  14. #34
    Senior Member Tony uk's Avatar
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    Good Q, Fortunatly i dont live in america and in winter in Scotland we are all to cold to operate something like a gun triger so self defense is the best option
    A wise person does at once, what a fool does at last. Both do the same thing; only at different times.

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    How come its seem that the scenario that we misplace our firearms, lose all our survival kit etc... is so prevalent sounds like a lot of defeatist thinking to me, what about the Baden-Powell motto "be prepared"
    Also here in Kanata even much colder and miserable than Scotland, we still manage to discharge a few in winter
    To thyne self be true

  16. #36
    Senior Member Tony uk's Avatar
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    Yeah but you have to remember that we are all miserable up here in scotland and hate the cold (Unless its snow) and with the amount of alcohol you find in your tipical scotsman i dont think we could figure out with part of the firearm is the trigger let alone fire it
    A wise person does at once, what a fool does at last. Both do the same thing; only at different times.

  17. #37
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Talking Yeah!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony uk View Post
    Yeah but you have to remember that we are all miserable up here in scotland and hate the cold (Unless its snow) and with the amount of alcohol you find in your tipical scotsman i dont think we could figure out with part of the firearm is the trigger let alone fire it
    And we Americans don't have massive alcohol consumption , right...FVR?
    SARGE
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
    Albert Einstein

    Proud father of a US Marine....SEMPER FI!

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    Benjamin Franklin

  18. #38
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    Here, in the great state of Illinois, they tend to frown down upon those of us who wish to keep and carry arms. We are trying to change those laws so that good, hard working people, can defend their selves, family and property (since criminals are gonna have fire arms regardless!). I have a Texas conceal and carry permit, and when I travel out of state, my .45 goes with me. It has gotten me out of some pretty hairy situations before...

  19. #39

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    same in anti-gun Maryland. my friend had small store in a bad neighborhood. he got into a shoot out with a punk. one of his employees got shot by this punk. the badguy got shot too but escaped. the employee sues my friend. a few years later, they're neck deep in legal fees (not to mention loss of quality of life). the state even prosecuted them for public endangerment.

    this isn't something i read about, which makes me even more afraid to shoot anyone LOL. i'm sure things like this about my place of residence, greatly affects my past judgments concerning the 'pulling out of my gun'.... also, i've been sued before for a frivolous reason....and it costs a ton of money just to defend and win a BS lawsuit....and it's almost impossible to recoup legal fees from the losing party.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony uk View Post
    I like self defense training instead of guns, Because if you misplace your weapon your done but its prity hard to misplace parts of your body to use in defense
    do people even own guns in the UK? and what about women, the weak, the elderly, etc? how many years of chopsocky training will they need in order to effectively defend themselves against one assailant? what about multiple assailants? chances are, they'll get their *** beat, stabbed or shot. training in sprinting or 100 yard dash would probably be more effective.

    what's wrong with carrying a gun and practicing MA? like Elvis once said, "Karate don't beat a gun".

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