Sterlization for welfare?

[bulrush]

Would you support sterilization in order for people to receive welfare?

See my blog entry: http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...blog.php?b=218

EDIT: What I was referring to was sterlization for welfare abuse. If you're on welfare more than 2 years consecutive or non-consecutive, you have an attitude problem, not a money problem. Sterlization would come into effect in this case.

[Ole WV Coot]

Too much Government intervention now. I feel like I have lost rather than gained freedom. I can almost agree in some cases, but NO. What's next? Euthanize every old person who can no longer contribute to society?

[mcfd45]

Just because some people are having a hard time and ask for government help gives the government no right to sterilize them. I would however support random drug tests. If the person decided that they wanted to get there stuff tied we should offer them it. But it should not be required.
Jeff

[mountain mama]

I say that if a woman opts to have another child while already on welfare, she loses ALL benefits. Why reward bad behavior?

However, I am all for sterilization of deadbeat dads.

[trax]

How about sterilizing people we think are just bad for our society? Seems like a pretty small step if we take the first one. Hitler thought it was a good idea. I'm kind of agreeing with Dad here, what people don't know in North America is how much forced/coerced sterilization has taken place already because the medical community is so good at keeping it's little secrets.

[Ken]

One point here.......

Sterilization may not be the proper term here. The "Angry Pharmacist" appears to advocate the use of "Depo Provera" - a long-term contraceptive with no permanent effects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depo-Provera

Depo-Provera is NOT sterilization. His argument suggests that women should not get pregnant if/while they are already on welfare.

Think about the California mom who just gave birth to octuplets - while on welfare.

Also think about the countless women who suffer from retardation/mental illness/major drug addiction and are on welfare but not living in the "supervised" environment provided by long-term care facilities or group homes. They actually have the legal capacity to consent to sexual relations but virtually no ability to consider the consequences.

Does the impact on their right to reproduce by administration of long term contraception (12 - 13 weeks) outweigh the rights of society to not bear the expense of supporting these children? How about the rights of kids to be born with at least a hope of a good life with their natural parents?

Yeah, tough questions all. When you look to the government and society for your support, should any strings be attached to the benefits you receive? Should people face the consequences of their actions?

[Ken]

However, I am all for sterilization of deadbeat dads.

Absolute truth here. I know a guy who has fathered 9 kids by 9 women. He has only supported (sporadically) 2 of these kids, born to the two women he actually married. One of those children is now an adult, "working the street" so to speak. His parents have custody of the second child. The other 7 - never a dime paid in support. He reproduces when he isn't in prison.

Last summer, 2 mothers gave birth to a child he fathered, about 6 weeks apart from each other.

Most of the women in question have multiple kids, no father around, and are on some type of government assistance. The guy himself is a drug-dealing sociopath. He has never been identified as the father by any of the "7 moms." Wonder why........

[bulrush]

However, I am all for sterilization of deadbeat dads.

I also agree with that above statement (so my post is not too short).

[bulrush]

Think about the California mom who just gave birth to octuplets - while on welfare.

One correction here. Octomom was not on welfare, Aid for Dependent Children, or Food Stamps, or WIC, when the octo kids were born, she was on Disability. Article didn't state whether it was federal or state disability. But she was "disabled" from a work accident.

However, she is probably on full welfare now. How on earth could she possibly think a single mom could take care of 14 kids????

[Ken]

I stand corrected.

[bulrush]

Too much Government intervention now. I feel like I have lost rather than gained freedom. I can almost agree in some cases, but NO. What's next? Euthanize every old person who can no longer contribute to society?

Coot, sounds like you don't mind paying taxes for welfare abusers. Will you pay my portion of taxes that goes to welfare programs? I'm not trying to start a pissing contest, I'm just asking.

I agree there is too much gov't intervention. Gov't trying to support chronic welfare and ER abusers, nacrotic abusers, and baby daddies. Now that gov't has created the problems, only the gov't is big enough to solve the problems. Hence my concept.

[bulrush]

Yeah, tough questions all. When you look to the government and society for your support, should any strings be attached to the benefits you receive? Should people face the consequences of their actions?

I think people should face consequences for their actions. If you have another kid while on welfare, YOU pay for it. You could have gotten FREE birth control from a local family planning agency, or even your family doctor, or a college doctor. (At my college, the college nurse would give away free birth control pills and condoms just for asking.)

If you do too many drugs and become a vegetable, I should not have to pay for your mistakes.

How about if I drive drunk and crash my car into a tree? Will you guys give me a new car? A big, shiny car that goes real fast. "Well? Well?? It's my right!!" That's what the other side says anyway.

Sorry for holding back on you, and all.

[DOGMAN]

I think the government should take on a wide scale sterilization project, run the country like a kennel. Decide who can breed and who can't and then have a long-term selective breeding project and create a super race!
I am willing to be the "foundation stud" of this project. I am willing to go all the way for my country!
If I could just get the feds to start bringing beautiful ladies to my remote mountain lair, we could really get this country back on track!

[Ken]

I am willing to be the "foundation stud" of this project.

I knew this was coming. As soon as I saw that you were posting a reply, I knew this was coming.

[trax]

This is kind of ironic, because I often hear many of my neighbors to the south admiring Canada's universal health care program. Well, someone pays for it, every time I look at my pay stub I know I'm one of the payees.

If you decide to eat your way to nirvana and BK your way to four hundred pounds and then have a heart attack, I shouldn't have to pay for it.

If you're gasping for life on a respirator because you smoke a pack a day for thirty years and now the emphysema is killing you, I shouldn't have to pay for it.

If some teenager is ambulanced to an emergency room and has a few litres of blood pumped into him and a surgeon stitching his guts back in at however many hundreds of dollars per hour because the kid got drunk and wrapped his car around a light pole, I shouldn't have to pay for it.

Maybe if all those health care losers' parents had been sterilized back when, I wouldn't be paying for it.

Can anyone here tell me where the next Einstein, King,Jr, Schweitzer or Ghandi is going to be born? Of course not. Can't tell me when and where the next Hitler or Idi Amin is going to be born either, I know. But what I think is, if I can't bear the cost of what being in this society costs me, then it's up to me to withdraw from society and quit paying the bills, but I stay.

[Ken]

Trax,

Some answers merely present more questions. Agreed?

[DOGMAN]

I knew this was coming. As soon as I saw that you were posting a reply, I knew this was coming.

I am pretty predicatable....

[trax]

Trax,

Some answers merely present more questions. Agreed?

Nobody's questioned me on what I mentioned in my first post about the sterlizations that have taken place. Think I'd only answer those in pm's anyway, this isn't the place for them.

My concern is, really, if this was to take place, where do you draw the line? Do I have more right to life than someone who is mentally damaged? Do I have more right to life than the offspring of someone who is mentally damaged?

I come from a far different belief system than that and that's something else I don't really care to discuss in an open forum, but again, where do we draw the line?

If enforced sterilization is ok, what if some 'welfare bum' slips through and gets pregnant? Enforced abortion?

Every person on this forum living in a nation that utilizes a democratic process can do more than was ever achievable before in the history of this planet to determine what kind of society they want to live in. They have the right to have their voices heard by those who would be their elected officials. So, make those determinations at election time people.

[nell67]

I will refrain from giving my opinion on the subject,being one of 11 kids with a father who didn't work from the time I was 5 years old,until about 5 years ago,after all his offspring obligation was gone and no one could come back on him for reimbursement of any kind.

[mountain mama]

One correction here. Octomom was not on welfare, Aid for Dependent Children, or Food Stamps, or WIC, when the octo kids were born, she was on Disability. Article didn't state whether it was federal or state disability. But she was "disabled" from a work accident.

However, she is probably on full welfare now. How on earth could she possibly think a single mom could take care of 14 kids????

She may not have been receiving "welfare" by your terms, the fact remains that she was not financially independent and was receiving public assistance in the form of SSDI for several of her previous 6. One simply for having ADHD. I have a couple of kids with ADHD, can I have a hand out too????