How to band together?

[RBB]

EDIT. Here's more details.

While inside your house you hear an adult male shouting "Hey! Anyone home?" You go to the door and see a man standing about 30 feet from the front door. He has a rifle but it is slung on his back. A knife is visible on his belt but he is waving his hands in the air, hands not near the knife.

Person approaching you is clean shaven, age about late 30s. It is summer but he has a coat rolled on the top of a full back pack. Pack has visible one bedroll and sleeping bag, and full water bottle, pockets of pack are stuffed full. His clothes are not new, there are some rips sewn here and there. They are not real dirty but it is clear this person has been camping outside for a few days at least.

Adult has no jewelry or tattoos.

Man says: "Could I stay here the night? I can work for you, split wood, or whatever needs doing. I have my own food."

What do you do? Be serious. I know a lot of you want to make jokes and say "I waste him with my +10 crossbow."

Being suspicious by virtue of my employment - I wouldn't go to the door. Pretty easy to hide a sniper in the woods around our place.

I have lots of family near by, and some very good friends. Likely we would end up with about 50 people either at my place, or at a friend's place down river.

[sniperfx]

man, i am with celtic savage, i am one of those people who have been trained to gain trust. i trust no one until they have proven themselves. i am lucky that i can read body language,facial expression etc... not that i am a bad guy or anything, but in a shtf scenario, people will do ANYTHING!!!!!!!! to get what they percieve as need,want etc... be very cautious with anyone. male or female......

[edr730]

I could eat all the cats and dogs, kill an enemy if there was one, skin a dead man out and eat him....but I couldn't turn a cold hungry man who asked for my help away. If he could trust me to leave his coat and weapons outside, then he could come in under guard. I'd share the fire, and a little food if I could. If I needed to turn him away after that, then I would put it to a vote to ease my conscience. I'd still feel guilty if I turned him out to probable death and wouldn't doubt he may return with help to attack the house. If he did, I'd defend it if I could or surrender it if I couldn't. Whether you allow him to enter or not he could still return either for help or attack. If you ever surrender your home, then don't expect more mercy than you've given. You don't give him a tour, but you don't make an enemy. You try to show a greater strength then you actually have, show kindness and make your decision while you listen, but where there is one of something that you can see then there are more that you can not.

[Sourdough]

Remy, I think you and I come at the "SHTF" thingie from totally different skill sets. I have not been to town for food for nearly 4 months (October 14, 08'). I am a professional hunter, and know zero about military stuff.

I have moose, Dall sheep, caribou, mt. goats, black bears, grizzly bears, three kinds of salmon, rainbow trout, all with-in 1/2 mile of the cabin. Why would I do a military thing.

If the SHTF 95% of the civilians would leave Alaska. With out Natural Gas, and Electric Anchorage would be a ghost town.

I would love to have a community of homesteader type people here in the area. And about half of them are.

There would be no reason for people to come here, it is hard work, real hard work, cold hard work.

I just don't see any need for military thinking here. Hard work yep, I'll be happy the feed anyone who wants to buck-up logs, split'em and stack'em.
Then haul water 1/2 mile. Then butcher a moose. There is always room for someone wants to work 16 to 18 hours a day.......In the rain, cold rain.

People do not seem to be attracted to hard labor. And there really are a lot of grizzly bears, that someone needs to feed.......

[rebel]

First, my question has to do with a TV "Pocky clypse" situation. I.e. almost no one has power, police are at home protecting their own, stores have been ransacked and emptied, etc.

Banding together is the best way to survive. Granted, you should band together with friends or family you know and trust. You know that ADD kid who couldn't hold a job down the street? Not a good bet to team up with.

But my question is, if you don't have family around here, and your friends are going to sit tight alone in their scattered homes, how does a lone person find a stranger to get together and survive with? (Sentence ending prepositions notwithstanding.)

I mean, an approaching stranger would have to be friendly. That means, rifle on his back, not drawn. Being polite. Offering to work for shelter and food. That kind of thing. Many people on this board would not accept strangers, assuming them to be low lifes. You would be right, for the most part, but what about the small bunch that are really hard working and trust worthy? They could really help you.

How would you test them to see if you might work together to get food and water and shelter? What might you ask them?

First, I'd ask them what their philosophy on life is. See if it's positive or negative.

EDIT. Here's more details.

While inside your house you hear an adult male shouting "Hey! Anyone home?" You go to the door and see a man standing about 30 feet from the front door. He has a rifle but it is slung on his back. A knife is visible on his belt but he is waving his hands in the air, hands not near the knife.

Person approaching you is clean shaven, age about late 30s. It is summer but he has a coat rolled on the top of a full back pack. Pack has visible one bedroll and sleeping bag, and full water bottle, pockets of pack are stuffed full. His clothes are not new, there are some rips sewn here and there. They are not real dirty but it is clear this person has been camping outside for a few days at least.

Adult has no jewelry or tattoos.

Man says: "Could I stay here the night? I can work for you, split wood, or whatever needs doing. I have my own food."

What do you do? Be serious. I know a lot of you want to make jokes and say "I waste him with my +10 crossbow."

From what you have described of the person I would invite them to stay. For a while, I would have them bed down in the barn, shed or garage. A trial period for observation. I've had folks stay in my home and a couple times and the "friends" true color became apparent. So, you've got to be cautious. These "friends" became needy and lazy. Then, when it was time to say bye it became un-friendly. The good life was leaving. The phrase "dug in deeper than a tick " is what I refer to in those times.

It's a good point you brought up about the equipment. Besides the obvious body language, how a person takes care of their possessions says a lot about that person. Something my G-father taught me was to look at the car of someone wanting to rent from you. The car didn't have to be the best just clean and tidy inside and out. If they take care of their stuff chances are they will be respectfully of your things.

Here's another twist to your scenario. What if the person is a different race?
Here's a simple test to see if race is an issue in survival: Drive to a part of town where you are clearly the minority and knock on a few doors to see if you can use their phone to call for a tow truck. This happened to me and thank goodness is was summer time.

Anyway, I think this a good thread. There are some good points being discussed.

[Sourdough]

O.K. here is what galls me. People make a lot of money, I don't stand outside their door and say, you have much, and I only made $4,642.00 total this year so give me some of your money, or I'll kill you and take it.

I choose to live a subsistence life style. What galls me is people always want to be on the gravy'boat. No body wants to be on the bust your a$$ work boat.

What gives people the right to come here and say, "My gravy'boat crashed, I lost my 2.6 million dollar home, my stock options went south, and my pension fund is broke, Feed me".

Life is about choices. Life is about being responsible for the choices we make, all of the choices that we make. The floor of my cabin was 16* F above zero for three weeks, when it was -31*F outside. Why because of choices that I made. Bad choices. So I had to Man-up and tough it out. I did not go to someones house and say my feet are cold, my puppies are freezing, there is ice 3 feet up the walls.

It is my responsibility to have firewood split for two years forward, I don't get to go to my neighbor and say, I spent the summer hiking, and you have split wood, give me some, or I'll kill you.

I have part of the homestead for sale. But people would rather put their money in junk bonds or Google stock options, well that is their choice.

I could sell the whole homestead and buy Google stock, my choice. Remy can stay in L.A. or move to a farm/ranch in mid-America, that is his choice.

I have made a lot of mistakes in this life, made a lot of bad choices. I lost $960,000.00 in the last Real Estate "DEPRESSION" in Alaska, all because I owed a bank $87,500.-- the bank went under, FDIC took over, they called my loan in full in 30 days.

Well guess what boys and girls, this cowboy will never, ever borrow one dollar from any bank ever, never.

Everybody wants the gravy boat.......well maybe the only boat taking on crew is the work boat.

[SARKY]

Im surrounded by females.Pretty ones at that.I would have to be very desperate to let some strange guy enter my home/hideout.I dont see that happening.On the other hand a female in need would be given consideration.There are some mean and nasty women out there but the male is by nature a more ruthless being.

you aren't paying attention then to say that a male is more ruthless by nature. Guys may be dawgs but a woman will cut your throat in the middle of the night after having seduced you.

[Sourdough]

you aren't paying attention then to say that a male is more ruthless by nature. Guys may be dawgs but a woman will cut your throat in the middle of the night after having seduced you.

So, you know my ex-wife.......which one......

[SARKY]

Look.... it comes down to this, build your group NOW before any kind of disaster happens. Anyone who comes into the group after, will have to EARN the trust of the group before he/she is fully intergrated. We have friends that we would trust with our lives and then we have friends that that aren't responsible enough to take care of themselves. If a person isn't willing to pull their own weight (and then some in an emergency) then I don't need them draging down the rest of us.

[SARKY]

On another note...lessons learned from Katrina: Neighborhoods that banded together for mutual support were bypassed by the thugs and looters. Yes they (the neighbors ) were armed, at least until that scumbag mayor and policechief decided to disarm lawabiding citizens!

[wildWoman]

O.K. here is what galls me. People make a lot of money, I don't stand outside their door and say, you have much, and I only made $4,642.00 total this year so give me some of your money, or I'll kill you and take it.

I choose to live a subsistence life style. What galls me is people always want to be on the gravy'boat. No body wants to be on the bust your a$$ work boat.

What gives people the right to come here and say, "My gravy'boat crashed, I lost my 2.6 million dollar home, my stock options went south, and my pension fund is broke, Feed me".

Life is about choices. Life is about being responsible for the choices we make, all of the choices that we make. The floor of my cabin was 16* F above zero for three weeks, when it was -31*F outside. Why because of choices that I made. Bad choices. So I had to Man-up and tough it out. I did not go to someones house and say my feet are cold, my puppies are freezing, there is ice 3 feet up the walls.

It is my responsibility to have firewood split for two years forward, I don't get to go to my neighbor and say, I spent the summer hiking, and you have split wood, give me some, or I'll kill you.

I have part of the homestead for sale. But people would rather put their money in junk bonds or Google stock options, well that is their choice.

I could sell the whole homestead and buy Google stock, my choice. Remy can stay in L.A. or move to a farm/ranch in mid-America, that is his choice.

I have made a lot of mistakes in this life, made a lot of bad choices. I lost $960,000.00 in the last Real Estate "DEPRESSION" in Alaska, all because I owed a bank $87,500.-- the bank went under, FDIC took over, they called my loan in full in 30 days.

Well guess what boys and girls, this cowboy will never, ever borrow one dollar from any bank ever, never.

Everybody wants the gravy boat.......well maybe the only boat taking on crew is the work boat.

You said it all.

[edr730]

There are many things that I would do, that other people could never do in a survival senerio such as this. I am not close to squeamish. But, one of the things that I am not capable of is not helping someone who comes to me and asks. If it really came down to it, and Hopeak was in my group, I would point to him and say, "you decide because I can't". I understand hard work and I know how people can be. I am the hardest of workers and I respect others who are similiar. I would only point out the strategy of the situation....it depends once again.
If the woods are filled with zombie survivalists with bug out bags, then you would need to make alliances...and soon. Whether it be with this individual or your neighbors you would need to make that choice. Of course, the decision would vary whether you are where Hopeak is or if you are in downtown Detroit. But, the decision should be made very quickly.
This is just a game or a senerio, but if it were to happen, then the decisions would have to be made quickly, accurately and based on your best accessment of the possibilities.

[edr730]

I wanted to say one more thing about this imaginary group that you are surviving with (I'm from Michigan so I can leave prepositions at the end of a sentence). Anyhow, I don't care what group you are with, you will develop a particular type of morality or ethic within the group. The group will not tolerate anything otherwise. There will be a definite 'right' and a definite 'wrong'. There will be a morality that will be more strict than what you would normally expect to experience. Take away the semantics and the bare bones will be that everyone thinks alike. As it should be and as it would be to form an efficient small working community.

[Stony]

wishes, dreams, hopes.
reality: no guy with a full pack and rifle will show up,
no shtf, no emd-time bs.
all of us will have our noses to the grind-stone the next few years to make due
thx to certain people.
keep it real.

[edr730]

The scenario is an exaggeration. But, it's an exaggeration for effect. There may be no shtf or teowanna wanna or whatever it's called. But, a man with a backpack at your door? With many more like him?...it's a remote possibility sure, but a possibility all the same. It happens all the time in third world countries. Just look south if you want to know what kind or scenario that greed for power and money, corruption, revolution or natural disasters can create. People are the same wherever you go. Don't think that our high moral values and ethics can guard us from it's occurrence here once again. It's happened many times, in the past, in the United States. We don't remember so well, but there have been books written about them. The struggles of the Native American, Tecumseh who all Canadians should know about his great part in their history, coal miners of the south, copper miners of Michigan, and the one we know the best: the exodus from the dust bowl of the Midwest. John Steinbeck's book "The Grapes of Wrath" is a story of survival as is Woody Guthrie's book "Bound for Glory". Don't discount them for books that are not about survival. They are stories of people working together in a group to survive. We don't know the future, that's why people prepare. But, if you look to history, you'll recognize that these events are reoccurring. You'll realize that they will occur again, whether in our time, our children's time or our grandchildren's time. But, they will occur....man made or natural.

[SARKY]

well said Ed

[Durtyoleman]

On the origional question, It'd be highly unlikely the person would ever see the inside of my door. Were it a known friend they'd first have to surrender their weapon to me...sorry but I am packin in my house and will be certain that I am in control, if it's a good friend they know I'll look out for them too. Since it is a stranger the only way they'd be permitted is if I were disabled in some manner since my work capacity would be diminished having to watch over an unknown and maintain extra caution in other time consuming manners.
just my two cents

D.O.M.

[SARKY]

Let's get to the basics. we associate with people, whatever people because of common interests. There are times that the association expands beyond the common interests. A person showing up at my door, can not be watched 24-7 while he/she is under a probationary period, gaining my trust. There are people out there that share your ideals and are willing to work together. There are also the sneaky predators who will do or say anything to gain your trust and then stab you in the back. That is why I say to build your group now! it doesn't have to be a tight group right now but it does need to be people you can trust to some extent.
Now i have a question, What do YOU do to a person who betrays your trust during a dire situation? Provided you are able to regain the upper hand.

[Durtyoleman]

Sorry but my door remains closed to them and my gun loaded, if they choose to disarm under my watch in the guise of aid and friendship and still betray then they will vanish..
D.O.M.

[TucsonMax]

This is a fascinating thread (ending with prepositions or not.) Not having any military or self-defense training (but classes are scheduled and supply money budgeted,) I'd likely hide and hope he just goes away. I figure, by the time he finds my house in the suburbs , half the other homes will be deserted and/or occupied by skeletons, so he'll bunk there first. It'll be difficult enough providing for my own family, let alone neighbors who show up unprepared... the last thing I can do is handle strangers. This is mighty difficult for me, just yesterday a stranger came up to me in the ER (was there for my kid and everything is fine) asking me for a few bucks to buy a meal. I gave him a $20. He needed it more then me.

That is why I say to build your group now! it doesn't have to be a tight group right now but it does need to be people you can trust to some extent.

I think this is the best advice and I'm doing it now. It's not easy, we all know that. But it simply makes the best sense.