Bear Stopper?

[dougz]

One of my biggest fears, having joined the S&R team, and doing heretofore any sort of activity in the wilderness, has been and continues to be my fear of animals..

Bears specifically..

Now, I've heard it 1000 times..

They're more afraid of you than you are of them, give them their space, make plenty of noise and you'll be fine, etc, etc...

But to my mind that's cold comfort to those statistical anomalies unfortunate enough to have been mauled..

Now, the more I look into this search and rescue gear, the more it makes me feel like getting out, doing some hiking and camping with my family..

I think as part of an S&R team, I'd be part of a relatively large group, and if not safer, at least I'd only have to outrun the slowest member (he says, half jokingly).

But if it's just the 4 of us, including 2 small children, I'd want to make sure they'd be safe..

Bear spray? Bangers?

I dunno..

What kind of firearm would be best in a strictly defensive, relatively short-range application against a bear?

Some kind of shotgun? If so, what kind, specifically?

(I know absolutely NOTHING about guns, and would of course be taking all sorts of courses.. But speaking hypothetically..)

[Sourdough]

Did you only want "Hypothetical" answers.........???

[dougz]

Any and all are welcome..

[Stairman]

I was wondering about the bear spray repellants myself.As far as a handgun for protection Id holster a 44 magnum.

[Ole WV Coot]

I know little about bear except for a few in my area. I do know a tad about handguns and the 44mag is not the gun to learn with. Animals or people aren't that easy to hit. Guess from what I read from the folks that face bear constantly they seem to like spray. As for a handgun, 44mag minimum. 12ga pump with a load someone in the know could recommend, but it just isn't that easy to fire a weapon under pressure. Stick with spray.

[RBB]

I would recommend a 12 gauge short barreled slide action shotgun with rifle sights and slugs. I would make sure the shotgun has a tang safety, and I would practice cycling through a series of shots. I would also practice carrying the shotgun (on a sling) and getting it into battery as quickly as possible (be careful).

Old WV Coot is right about using guns. I recommend a shotgun because I've been a gun man all my life. If you go with a gun - practice is very important. In emergency situations - you have to rely on "muscle memory" to make you react correctly

[Sourdough]

Hypothetical factors to thunk about.......How many in the party shall be trained/skilled in application of chosen deterent.....?? Is the "SIZE" of deterrent use able by all potential operators.....How many in the party shall be packing chosen deterent......?

[Pal334]

I agree with RBB. I am a 12 guage guy (my choice is a double barrel "coach type"). My choice is based on my environment and training. I can shoot two accurate slugs and reload quite quickly, following up with two more. This should be able take care of business. I carry mine on a single point sling, so it is always directly at hand and can be placed "in battery" almost instantly. This rapidity is due to years of practice (as RBB said, is muscle memory now) with this type of carry in the military and other venues. From reading these forums, it does seem there is no one answer and I would suggest whatever "answer " you choose, practice, practice and then practice some more.

[Sourdough]

Hypothetically....If firearm fits only the largest male, and LOP renders firearm inoperable by smaller female; What if largest male and firearm are both being gnawed on by fuzzy'thingie......?????

Hypothetically....might be gooder to pack firearm operable by all adults both Male and female. LOP should fit smallest adult. This will still be operable by larger adult.

[MCBushbaby]

I think your standard pistol would work if you really demand that much defense. No use in carrying buckshot and a heavy shottie around when a pistol will work*... would also have use while tussling with one whereas a shottie would be too long to be of use. Pepper spray I hear works but you need the strong stuff (forgot how they measure it), not the crap WalMart sells.

*I read about an arctic hunting crew that killed polar bears with a .50 pistol by getting within 50ft. If 50 can bring down that brute, a .357 should work on a black

[MCBushbaby]

Oh, if my move out to CA gets finalized, I'll be looking at avoiding cougars in the bush (as well as my first introduction to venomous snakes). I don't mean to detract from your thread, but how the hell do you fight off a cougar? They sneak up on you and go for the neck... pepper spray is useless by the time they're on you so I'm guessing a good stiff knife?

[crashdive123]

Cougar is nothing more than a big cat. Bring a dog.......one with special powers helps.

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[dougz]

Thanks for the comments..

One thing I've been considering strongly is the chance, greater by far, of the firearm being just as much a danger to US as it is to any bear..

Just the thought of my boys and their curiosity makes my blood go cold..

Are there ways to ensure, past a tang safety and carrying the gun everywhere I go 24/7, that the gun cannot be fired accidentally, while not being excessively hard to rearm quickly in a stressful situation?

Perhaps my best option would be to ensure if I ever go camping, it is with at least one more family, with more than one adult packing pepper spray?

A big dog would be great, but we don't have one, presently..

[crashdive123]

Thanks for the comments..

One thing I've been considering strongly is the chance, greater by far, of the firearm itself being just as much a danger to US as it is to any bear..

Just the thought of my boys and their curiosity makes my blood go cold..

Are there ways to ensure, past a tang safety and carrying the gun everywhere I go 24/7, that the gun cannot be fired accidentally, while not being excessively hard to rearm in a quickly in a stressful situation?

Perhaps my best option would be to ensure if I ever go camping, it is with at least one more family, with more than one adult packing pepper spray?

Training, training, training. I know that you said you'd take a course if you went that route, but I mean for the kids as well. A firearm is nothing more than a tool to get a specific job done. Just like with a hammer or circular saw, kids must be trained in order to ensure their safety.

[dougz]

Yes, I'm sure the fear of God could be put in them, and they are good boys..

But being autistic, they are also more unpredictable and impulsive than your average 5 and 8 year olds, unfortunately..

It's not Black bears I worry about as much as Grizzly bears..

I wish I'd never watched "The Edge"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's forever ruined the wilderness for me..

Like I say, this joining the Search and Rescue team has been a huge leap forward for me..

[crashdive123]

I don't mean by putting fear into them. I won't presume to tell a parent what to teach their kids, at any age, but proper use and respect for the firearm. Even a program like the NRA has for kids - stop - don't touch it - tell an adult if you find a firearm (simple version). I know it types easier than it is in reality.

[Sourdough]

Most, but not all, magazine type handguns, will not discharge with out the magazine inserted, even if there is a cartridge in the chamber. So if the magazine is in your pocket and the handgun is in the holster, they would need both to discharge firearm.

[dougz]

proper use and respect for the firearm

I hear you..

What I should say is knowing there is some way to disable the safety would be just as terrible and probably unfounded as my fear of running across a bear..

They would MOST likely leave it alone, just as they most likely would be careful around a campfire, but....

A lock requiring a key in the trigger mechanism would work, I guess..

That's all I can think of..

So if the magazine is in your pocket and the handgun is in the holster, they would need both to discharge firearm.

Are there 44 magnum handguns with magazine clips?

[DOGMAN]

I live in an area that has alot of Grizzly bear attacks. I think there have been 11 Grizzly attacks on humans in my county in the last two years alone. All of our garbage areas for my community are gated, and bear proof. It is illegal to have garbage outside of your house at all in my area. Lastly, I see easily 20-30 bears a year. The closest I've been to a Griz is about 5 feet!

I believe in BEAR SPRAY 100% It is widely recommended by all governmental agencies and is way more effective than a pistol. Heres why...

Unless you are a skilled marksman in stressful situations, the chance of you being able to draw and fire a gun that will deliver a lethal shot to a Grizzly in a close combat situation is small.

While weilding a pistol in a bear charging situation you are highly likely to miss the bear, hit it somewhere were it will still attack you, accidentaly shoot a bystander, or accidental shoot yourself. Also, You gotta have a pretty stout forearm to stop a Griz. A 12 gauge can do it, so can a .357- but, neither is no guarantee. A big bruin will eventually bleed out from a shot from one of these, but it may not stop them in their tracks. So, they can still attack you even after taking a couple of hits!

However, BEAR SPRAY really works! Don't use it until the Bear is a couple of feet from you than mist the heck out of it right in the eyes! The bear will stop the attack, and drop to the ground in horrible agony. Giving you time to vamoose.

Also, by doing this you've now trained the bear to avoid humans- without killing it.

If you shoot a Grizzly you will be in for a world of paper work, court preceedings, etc... Even if its ruled a necessary killing on your part, your looking at years of dealing with the government. I had a friend that shot a Griz in MT almost a decade ago, and he still has to deal with issues concerning that!

USe bear spray, and both you and the Grizzly get to go on about your business- both a little smarter and humbler from the encounter

[MCBushbaby]

I'm not a pistol expert but let's see if I can paint the image:

Jason Stamos rips a pistol from a bad guy's hand, ejects the magazine, cocks to eject the chamber round, slides the barrel "cover" (?) off, and tosses each piece in separate areas of the room.