.357 Magnum, 9mm +P+, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP?

[glockcop]

Sarky, I won't get in a debate over the 9mm round, but I just believe it is underrated. In my personal penetration tests I sufficiently answered my own questions regarding the power of this round. While I wouldn't recommend the 9mm for hunting, I do believe it could easily penetrate a bears skull, or it's heart. For self defense, I do not feel under gunned with the 9. IMHO, shot placement is key.

AGAIN: "Yep, What he said". I've done a bit of testing myself and FMJ aside, the 9mm (124 and 147 gr) in hollow points CONSISTANTLY outpenetrates .38, .40 S&W, and .45 acp in any weight all day every day with power that for the most part matches or exceeds them. The .40 in 180 gr comes the closest but still gets outpaced by the 9mm. To get back on track, the .357 is the nondesputed "CROWNED KING" of self defense rounds and would be the best of the choices listed for a survival situation IMO. This goes for any firearm: Stress and the threat of being eaten alive by a bear can seriously undue any shot placement skills acquired on the range . There is a difference between ''Bear Hunting'' and "Survival" guns.

[kyratshooter]

And just how much penetration does one need? Do we have rabbits and quail hiding behind sandbags now? Are we going into tatical mode and punching through cinder blocks to hit the spike deer at the water hole?

All of the vital organs in most creatures are within 8 inches of the skin. All of the listed choices give you at least that much penetration and are long proven wilderness guns.

I have no griz or polar bears in my area, no elephants to finish off either. With a lack of dangerous game to deal with nothing can compete with the versitility and reliability of a .357 wheelgun.

I think I will stick with the versititly of being able to shoot anything from mice with shot loads, to moose with 200 gn cast lead, the reliability and lack of need for magazines of my .357.

[glockcop]

And just how much penetration does one need? Do we have rabbits and quail hiding behind sandbags now? Are we going into tatical mode and punching through cinder blocks to hit the spike deer at the water hole?

All of the vital organs in most creatures are within 8 inches of the skin. All of the listed choices give you at least that much penetration and are long proven wilderness guns.

I have no griz or polar bears in my area, no elephants to finish off either. With a lack of dangerous game to deal with nothing can compete with the versitility and reliability of a .357 wheelgun.

I think I will stick with the versititly of being able to shoot anything from mice with shot loads, to moose with 200 gn cast lead, the reliability and lack of need for magazines of my .357.

I agree that the .357 is the top choice for a "survival" firearm....whatever that is. The .357 covers such a broad range of uses that it makes it a no brainer for the countless unpredictable scenarios one may find themselves in. I do think you may have misunderstood my defense of the 9mm and it's penetration ability. It is NOT as versitile as the .357 but we got off topic for a few posts and I was giving my take on common auto pistol rounds and their performance from my experience using them. No, there are not ''rabbits behind sand bags'' or deer hiding behind cinder blocks but there are situations where "penetration" is what is needed to save your bacon. I'd rather have a little too much than too little penetration any day. Your pistol may have to protect you from a large variety of threats, two legged and four legged. You may be in a life or death situation in the city streets or just as easily in the outback. Bad guys do not stand in the street and waite to be shot. They hide behind car doors and mail boxes. Either the city or the wilderness can be considered a ''survival situation'' or a ''bug out'' scenario. But lets get back to the wilderness setting. If you have only one shot that may be partially blocked by greenery or debris and you have to take that spike buck or starve, what are you gonna do? Pass the shot? Not a chance. No, not an ethical shot but hey, we are about to ''starve'' in this example. Or maybe we could replace that "spike buck" with a large mule deer partially behind a cacti. Maybe it's an old gator laying on the bank and it's your last chance to get a meal. Without surgical shot placement in the brain, "penetration'' is what you need to take a gator. Most folks are not proficient enough for surgical shot placement with a pistol so penetration wins the card game. What about a cougar that has stalked you for a few hundred yards and is waiting to pounce on you while hiding in the thick nearby brush. Maybe you are about to have a run in with a couple of feral pits or rotties way back in the middle of nowhere. Most people would agree that these guys are thick with heavy dense muscle. What about the hungry black bear that has YOU on his menue. The range of the black bear is spreading every day. It can and does happen. Maybe not very often but none the less, it happens. I think penetration would be HIGH on my priority list in ANY of the previous examples. These are situations where people could reasonably find themselves in. The moral of the story: ''PENETRATION IS A GOOD THING''. In an auto, a 9mm can be counted on to give superior penetration to the other auto cartriages mentioned but the .357 is the king of the roost in a more broad variety of situations.

[Batch]

With all this talk of bigger caliber and more penetration. I think we should just go around the various forums and threads like this and rate the threads on a certain scale. Kinda like Boone and Crockett or Pope and Young.

What to y'all think of Freud and Jung?

[xj2000]

This is virtually an endless argument. Don't let anyone tell you what the best survival round is. You must decide for yourself. A better question would be: "what rounds do you use and why?"

Thought: Does the guy who started this thread 3 years ago even look at it anymore?

[EdD270]

My first choice is a .357 mag 3" stainless revolver. I love the cartridge/gun combo's versatility for a woods gun. Heavy .357 mag loads for large animals, lighter bullets, light .38 Spl loads for small animals and target shooting. Someone commented they prefer the .44 mag because they have a rifle that shoots them, too. Marlin makes a wonderful lever action rifle in .357 mag.
The .40S&W would be my choice in a semi-auto. I know the 10mm is a stronger load, but ammo is hard to find and of limited variety. The 10mm full strength load is about equivalent to a .41 mag., another great cartridge, but hard to find and limited variety. Oh, yeah, neither were on the list.
I've killed deer and elk with the .357, and know people who've taken some good sized black bears with it, and read accounts in the hunting mags of people taking griz with it. I would not feel undergunned with a .357 for anything on NA continent, especially in sub-arctic areas. My uncle once killed a black bear with a .22 rimfire pistol, not because he wanted to, but because he had to. That don't mean the .22 is the ideal bear gun, though. For survival purposes in the wilderness, the .22 is hard to beat, but the .357 is the most versatile all-around, do everything gun you can find. A 3" barrel will do anything you need done out to 50 or 100 yards on deer-size game or smaller, and is convenient to carry and deploy.

[Dropy]

i like the .357 for most applications.

[kyratshooter]

Bump!

I really wish now that I had included .44 Magnum in this poll. Maybe next time!

I am glad you didn't.

If you had listed the 44mag this would have changed to a fantacy football equivelent. Everyone that never got hit with one from either end would want one but not really HAVE one. .44 mag is one of those guns I have owned several of in the past, do not own now and do not miss having.

As it is a lot of the replies are "I would pick" or "I would get" or "I have only shot two magazines from it but..." rather than "My old M19 will do the job."

What is the best survival caliber?

The one that fits the gun you have on your belt when you need it!

[wholsomback]

Well for what it is worth I cherish my .44 but love my .357/.38 and have killed many big game animals with both.I would rank the .357/.38 better than the 9mm because I have seen a many a hog soak up alot of rounds from a 9mm whilst the .357/.38 dispatches a charging hog better and with less rounds fired
for the kill,the .44 is far better but when most women or recoil sensitive people are involved a 110 grain hollowpoint+P .38 is very manageable even for my wife and 13 year old girl.I know alot of people love there 9mm but I used one in the Marine Corps and turned to the .45 after my first firefight,more bullets does not always mean better.The bullets for the .44 are everywhere and are not that expensive when you count the fact that when you need to stop something it does not fail.35 dollars for 50 is not to steep a price to pay when you or your family are at risk or you need that big game animal down quick,and I mean big,with the right bullets and a little practice the .44/.44 special rounds will take any animal in North America to the dirt with one shot.while I would not try a grizzly or a moose or elk with a 9mm but would with the proper .357/.38 but my heart is on my .44 as is my life.I can handle and control a big gun and thats what it's all about shoot the most powerful gun you are comfortable with and you will do fine,I can put 6 rounds from my .44 in a pie plate at 30 meters as fast as I can pull the trigger so I don't worry with smaller weapons but have others for my wife and kids.Each to his own the debate will never end.....

[hunter63]

So..... has any one changed their mind since 2008?

[Rick]

Welcome home, Wholsomback, and thanks for your service.

Hunter, I've changed my mind several times since then but at my age I can't remember why and what it was about.

[hunter63]

Huh? What were we talking about..........?

[wholsomback]

Remember what the old gunfighters used to say about a real gunfight."the man who wins is a man with enough nerve to stand and aim"(Wyatt Earp) sometimes you get lucky with all those bullets goin downrange but one well placed shot out preforms all that wasted ammo and noise.I guess that's why alot of Texas Rangers are going back to .45/1911 and there old .44 wheel guns,reliability and real stopping power.

And thankyou Rick it is much appreciated.

[Winter]

I carry a .357/.38 wheelgun in the woods.

I agree the .44 is a better stopper, but, I have a better chance of a second or followup shot with the .357 if a bear is charging. For bear, I go with the idea that the more lead you put in the bear in the shortest amount of time equals victory IF you have enough penetration.

[Rick]

I have no idea how you guys hang on to a .44. My .357 is more than I want to shoot. The old wrist can't take too much of that kind of recoil. Cudos to you in spades if you can do it.

"But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow my hand clean off from the recoil...."

[wholsomback]

They are the .44 I mean not that hard to handle with practice because recoil as all of you who shoot magnum deer cartriges in the deer woods know you don't notice it when there's a 10 point in front of you as the differance in a paper target.Get some practice and learn how to manage the recoil and you will not even notice the recoil when I.E. the bear hog or other animals are charging.I had a 300 pound hog charge last year at night at about 10 feet and wouldn't you know it 5 shots all hit and didn't even realize I had shot that many times niether did the hog.

[kyratshooter]

I have no idea how you guys hang on to a .44. My .357 is more than I want to shoot. The old wrist can't take too much of that kind of recoil. Cudos to you in spades if you can do it.

"But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow my hand clean off from the recoil...."

You just have to ask yourself, "Do you feel lucky?"

Recoil from the .44mag has never been a problem for me, but it is for many people. I have always thought the ruger blackhawk had a pleasant push with factory .44. I had one old Cimmeron SA .44mag that was downright pleasant to shoot. I simply do not need if for anything that roams around in my area.

Still I would even choose the .357 for a long term urban survival gun due to being able to salvage almost any .38/9mm cartridge to use in it.

The .357 will chamber 38spl/.38super/357 as is of course, but one can also salvage primers, powder and slugs from 9mm/380 or any of the other .38 calibers and recycle them into the empties that you always save with the wheelgun rather than watch them sail through the weeds from an autoloader. Since the cases came out of your gun you will normally not need to resize them and you can rebuild them without a reloading press.

[hunter63]

You just have to ask yourself, "Do you feel lucky?"

Recoil from the .44mag has never been a problem for me, but it is for many people. I have always thought the ruger blackhawk had a pleasant push with factory .44. I had one old Cimmeron SA .44mag that was downright pleasant to shoot. I simply do not need if for anything that roams around in my area.

Still I would even choose the .357 for a long term urban survival gun due to being able to salvage almost any .38/9mm cartridge to use in it.

The .357 will chamber 38spl/.38super/357 as is of course, but one can also salvage primers, powder and slugs from 9mm/380 or any of the other .38 calibers and recycle them into the empties that you always save with the wheelgun rather than watch them sail through the weeds from an autoloader. Since the cases came out of your gun you will normally not need to resize them and you can rebuild them without a reloading press.

All the above reasons are why I like and shoot my .357 more than any other, except maybe the .22's.

[Rick]

Sooo. You just place the new primer on the case and tap them in?

[hunter63]

Sooo. You just place the new primer on the case and tap them in?

Yes, It's getting an unfired primer, out of a unfired case that's kind tough........
Lee Loader or at least the principle of one.
randyt had posted a home made version a while back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc