.357 Magnum, 9mm +P+, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP?

[sgtdraino]

I'm interested in deciding which of these 4 rounds is best overall for wilderness survival applications. Not best of all rounds, just which is the best of these four.

My inclination is to gravitate towards .357/.38, because it is a common round to acquire, relatively inexpensive, relatively small (so you can carry more ammo), but has some serious target-stopping capabilities, particularly if fired through a carbine. Of course, this is a revolver round, so your firearms choices are basically confined to revolvers and lever-action carbines.

Next I am partial to 9mm +P+, for basically the same reasons as .357/.38. I think I heard +P+ can approach velocities somewhat similar to the .357 (though I'm not positive). Of course this is a semi-auto cartridge, so you'll be confined to handguns and carbines of that type. Quite a bigger variety of brands and styles than with a revolver cartridge, though.

Next comes .40 S&W, which I'm considering both because I own a handgun and carbine in that caliber, and also because I've heard a couple people here on the forum that are partial to it. In my experience, .40 S&W is somewhat costlier and harder to find than .9mm or .357, but perhaps it is becoming cheaper and more common with its wide acceptance by law enforcement. I think last time I was in Wal-mart, I was surprised to see it priced the same as .357.

Last comes .45 ACP, which I include mostly because I have heard a few people on this forum favor this round. I tend not to, mostly because it's a big bullet (can't carry as much), and it's pretty slow (not as much range, not as flat a trajectory). But hey, I could be wrong!

So what do you guys think? I tend to agree that .22lr is probably the best overall survival round, but I feel I should have at least one other serious caliber on-hand for situations that a .22lr is just not likely to handle well.

Your thoughts?

[Sourdough]

I like the reliability of a wheel gun. I also like "not" leaving spent cases behind for those who are employed to solve riddles. So I vote .357 Mag. w/ 200 gr. Hard Cast Corbon Ammo.

The "TOOL" that lives in the right rear pocket of my Carhartt Logger pants is 3" S&W M-60.

[Pal334]

Last comes .45 ACP, which I include mostly because I have heard a few people on this forum favor this round. I tend not to, mostly because it's a big bullet (can't carry as much), and it's pretty slow (not as much range, not as flat a trajectory). But hey, I could be wrong!

I am a .45acp guy. And probably for all the reasons you mention that you do not to favor it.[B] WeightB] = I don't carry more than 10-20 rounds except under extreme conditions. Big Bullet = The bigger the better. Pretty Slow= As Cooter may agree, you don't have to be fast to be lethal.
I do agree with your 22lr comment, probably would be one of my first choices.

And what a boring world it would be if we all agreed 100% of the time. It would sure limit our ability to learn from each other.

[Ole WV Coot]

45 acp. My carry gun. I have and own the others, carried them at times. I like the S&W Mod 60, and the Walther PPK/S 380 but we don't grow anything the 45 won't stop. Kinda like slapping a guy or hitting him with a baseball bat, I like the bat. The mag for mine holds 8 rounds of Federal Personal Defense, works for me at the ranges I would use.

[Leighman]

My vote goes to the .38/.357 for its versatility.

6 rounds of .38 Spl. (SWC non +P) for recoil senstive folks beats a sharp stick any day.

CCI Snake loads from a 4-inch tube will dispatch those slithering critters for the pot (within a realistic range, of course).

.357 115/125 gr. JHP STILL has a proven track record against two-legged critters.

As mentioned, the compatibility with a lever gun never hurts.

Availabilty. Every country store I've ever been to that sells any ammo stocks something in .38/.357.

[Pict]

It is hard to beat the .38/.357 for versatility. My normal carry gun is a Kahr K-9 9mm, but for woods carry I switch to a 2.5 inch Model 19 .357 magnum. With an assortment of ammo it will take everything from small game up to close range (think tree stand range) shots on white tailed deer. They handle shot shells, wad cutters, +P .38 special, or .357 magnum up to 180 grains. Ammo is widely available and the gun will work well for self defense.

Another advantage of the revolver is that you can split the load and manually select what you want to shoot if things change. You can set it up with two target wadcutters in the cylinder and leave it with your SD ammo set to come on line first. That way if you spot a game animal you can simply open the cylinder and bring the wadcutters on line to hunt. In snake country you can leave it with two shotshells set to go off first and the rest either hunting or SD ammo depending on conditions. At night or coming across bear sign you can reload it with all heavy .357 ammo.

One thing I do with mine is to leave it fully loaded with .357 magnum "bear loads" but carry my speedloaders with +P .38 special. I figure if I need to speed load the gun, I'm in a gunfight and would rather have the control of the +P .38s. Mac

[larmus]

personaly i like the .45 myself, i have owned numorous .45's in many makes and models but have always gravitaited towards the 1911 models... just enjoy shooting them over all the rest... good stopping power, good for medium sized to large game if needed... the other calibers mentioned may have better qualities but why shoot twice when you only need to shoot once...

[chiye tanka]

While I love the .40, I've gotta go with the .357 for the woods. Like Hope said, the wheel gun is more reliable and the only company that makes or did make a revolver in .40 is S&W. That there .357 is a jack of all trades and is hard to beat for all around usefulness.

[Pal334]

I have two 1911's (no fancy stuff). They always work, and are comfortable. Even took one to the sand box ( sssh Doug don't tell any one ) Always easy to get ammo and is not particular what it / they eat. I agree with Coot, there isn't much around that a good 45acp won't put down or at least wear out . Having said that I see that many have differing opinions and good reasons for their choices.

[FVR]

There is not a box for non of the above.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...................................

[Leighman]

There is not a box for non of the above.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...................................

I thought the same thing!

The Glock 20 in 10mm can be versatile as can the 44 spl/mag combo.

[SARKY]

I will have to go with the .357. Stoke it wih a hot hardcast Keih style semi wadcutter and I would have no problem wih going up against a Black Bear nor any of he other game animals on is continent with the exception of Griz, that might be just a tad light for Griz. I have 2 Ruger single action Revolvers, one in chambered in 38-40 with a 10mm cylinder and the other is chambered in 38-40 with a .40 SW cylinder. both are fun gus.

[Tuckahoe]

Given the above choices I would go with the .357/.38 above the others.
I have serious reservations on using the .45 ACP on dangerious animals. While working for the sheriff's office in 2001 I was attacked by a large angry rottweiler that soaked up round after round of 185 gr hollowpoints. In the end the dog had been hit eight times, chest, shoulders 2x, upper front legs, and snout before he backed off. None of the bullets made full penetration. If you believe something is knocked off its feet when hit by a .45 Im sorry it just don't happen that way. I was a tried and true .45 guy until that day. This did motivate the department to switch to a 230gr +p round but at this time there have been no other shootings with the new ammunition.
I like the .44 magnum better than the above besides the fact that it also fits my Marlin 1894 lever action it also does shot shells, shoots .44 specials and full power magnums. Choice of handgun is the S&W 29

[SARKY]

I have to agree that if given the choice , I would prefer the .44 to the .357. No matter which of these 2 calbers you pick the revolver barrel length should be no less than 4 inches. I might also reccomend the .41 magnum, for those of us who reload I also load .41 special and shot shells. I have a Ruger Bisley Hunter 7.5 inch barrel, a Taurus total titanium Tracker 4 inch barrel, and a Marlin 1895Fg all in .41 mag. With that combo I wouldn't be afraid of anything roaming the woods of North America.

[RBB]

I've carried and used all of these calibers on duty, over the years. We now carry the .40 cal, and I like this caliber very much because it has stopping power (dealing with people), the guns have high capacity magazines, and if you shoot at a bad guy, it isn't as likely as some calibers to hit something (or someone) behind the bad guy you are shooting at.

I've shot bears using a Colt .45 ACP - and also using .45 long Colt. Neither of these rounds did the bear in - eight shots with the .45 Colt Auto and five shots with the .45 long Colt. In each case I had to get very close and shoot the bear in the brain box. With the .357 I never had problems like this. I've actually had better luck killing bear with a 9MM than the .45 ACP.

One drive by shooting employing a .357 mag - five of six bullets passed completely through the house being shot at. The sixth bullet was found in the exterior wall - opposite the side of the building where it entered. For penetration - the .357 mag is the best gun of those listed.

For "wilderness" use, there is no question. The .357 mag would be the caliber to have on hand.

[chiangmaimav]

My favorite gun for wilderness back in the states was a Model 66 F-comp from S & W performance center. It was stainless with 3 inch barrel and I used to do same as Pict and loaded it with .357 rounds and carried .38+Ps in speedloader. I never had to shoot a bear with this, or any other gun for that matter, so I can't say how it would work in that situation. By the way, if you like revolvers and 9mm, Ruger used to make 9mm revolvers as I believe did Smith also but I am not sure if they still do.

[doug1980]

I have two 1911's (no fancy stuff). They always work, and are comfortable. Even took one to the sand box ( sssh Doug don't tell any one ) Always easy to get ammo and is not particular what it / they eat. I agree with Coot, there isn't much around that a good 45acp won't put down or at least wear out . Having said that I see that many have differing opinions and good reasons for their choices.

How did you manage that. Getting it there is easy but getting it home HOW!? I was issued two switchblade type knives and Navy Customs only let me keep one. Plus the post office would search every crevace of my packages.

Any way back on topic I am currently in the market for something to carry while out. I currently own a 9mm Beretta and a Taurus 9mm but was looking at a Springfield 1911 .45 ACP. I'm not a huge fan of revolvers, but will use this thread as a tool to help me decide. The wife wants me to carry one to stop bears, can't bring myself to tell her no handgun will stop a determind bear. False sense of security I guess.

[crashdive123]

How did you manage that. Getting it there is easy but getting it home HOW!? I was issued two switchblade type knives and Navy Customs only let me keep one. Plus the post office would search every crevace of my packages.

Any way back on topic I am currently in the market for something to carry while out. I currently own a 9mm Beretta and a Taurus 9mm but was looking at a Springfield 1911 .45 ACP. I'm not a huge fan of revolvers, but will use this thread as a tool to help me decide. The wife wants me to carry one to stop bears, can't bring myself to tell her no handgun will stop a determind bear. False sense of security I guess.

Try this thread for some ideas. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...oncealed+carry

[Pal334]

How did you manage that. Getting it there is easy but getting it home HOW!? I was issued two switchblade type knives and Navy Customs only let me keep one. Plus the post office would search every crevace of my packages.

Any way back on topic I am currently in the market for something to carry while out. I currently own a 9mm Beretta and a Taurus 9mm but was looking at a Springfield 1911 .45 ACP. I'm not a huge fan of revolvers, but will use this thread as a tool to help me decide. The wife wants me to carry one to stop bears, can't bring myself to tell her no handgun will stop a determind bear. False sense of security I guess.

Can't give out all my trade secrets . It does help to know the supply NCO and just slip it into the armory pallet . Remember, if ya ain't cheatin, ya ain't trying. In my humble opinion there is nothing better than a basic 1911 and that is based on about 30 years of carry and use. But as you can see there are many knowledgable folks here that have different opinions.

[sgtdraino]

I like the .44 magnum better than the above besides the fact that it also fits my Marlin 1894 lever action it also does shot shells, shoots .44 specials and full power magnums. Choice of handgun is the S&W 29

I have to agree that if given the choice , I would prefer the .44 to the .357.

Ah, I should have included a .44 Magnum option in the poll! I didn't think to, mainly because I don't own any .44 Magnum weapons as of yet. I tend towards .357 more due to (like with .45) the additional size and weight of .44 Magum ammunition. Also, my impression is that .44 is again a fair bit more expensive than the other four rounds mentioned in the poll. Am I wrong?

What about availability? is .44 as easy to acquire as .357/.38?

I think most would agree that .44 Magnum significantly out-performs all of the rounds in this poll, .357 included. Is that performance enough to outweigh all potential disadvantages? (size/weight/cost/availability)