Internal or external frame pack?

[lucznik]

I'll try to get some pics up soon.

Please do. I have an extra Enduroflex frame lying around and would be very interested to see if there would be a way to put it back into service.

[sgtdraino]

Please do. I have an extra Enduroflex frame lying around and would be very interested to see if there would be a way to put it back into service.

Okay, here we go. Hopefully these pictures won't be too friggin huge:

This is the only picture I could find of the original unmodified Enduroflex frame:

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And here is how I shaped the top of it, to fit into the pocket of the ALICE. I know it looks thin on the edges from this angle, but it's really not as bad as it looks. from the side, that frame is pretty thick:

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Here's the pack up on the frame:

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And here's a close-up view of how I've attached my original ALICE straps to the frame:

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Here's a full view of the back of the pack:

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Here's a close-up view of the MOLLE Sleep System carrier bag, and how it's attached. Note that with this set-up, the MSS carrier is mounted with the BOTTOM against the frame. You'll see why in a sec.

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Here's a side-view showing how the MOLLE belt is attached, as well as how the bottom of the MSS carrier is attached. Note that there are three different heights at which you can attach the MOLLE belt, I chose to feed it through the "M" and "S" slots:

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Here's another side-view of how the MSS carrier is attached, from a slightly different angle:

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Note that the metal clips at each corner of the bottom of the MSS carrier go through those slots, and secure the bottom of the bag to the frame perfectly.

Here's how high up the pack comes, with the MOLLE belt attached where it's at. I could make it ride even higher, but I think this height is a good compromise:

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Here's a side-view showing how the suspension on the shoulder straps works:

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Lastly, here's an angled view, showing detail on the attachment points of the straps:

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Whaddaya think?

[Sourdough]

NOW, I understand, NOW I see what you guys call a hip belt and shoulder straps. What do I think? I think you did a nice job. However it still looks like what I call a large "Day" pack.

[Rick]

+1 on the tutorial and +1 on the modifications. A little rep your way.

A couple of questions on the Alice. I see a couple of zippered pouches on each side. What are those?

Did you modify the Alice to accept the Fastex buckles or did it come that way.

Nice job!!

[lucznik]

NOW I see what you guys call a hip belt and shoulder straps.

So, what do you call a hip belt and shoulder straps?

...it still looks like what I call a large "Day" pack.

It's hard to tell because the pics don't give a real good idea of how big the pack is but, I'm pretty sure that pack would carry all the food and gear I need, except for water, for a week or more.

I like it.

My frame is not exactly the same as the one pictured, but I think it might still work.

[sgtdraino]

Since the "Internal or external frame pack" poll thread has become rather ALICE-intensive, and since we don't appear to have a thread just for ALICE-related stuff... I decided to make one! Shifting this excellent discussion over to there:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...d=1#post241803

[Melissa Montana]

I use external.Feels better to me plus i can clip other items to the frame if need be.

[1stimestar]

I started out with an old external frame that I bought at a swap meet my first summer up here. After a couple of summers of backpacking, I finally got a very nice internal frame, fancy, expensive. I returned it after my first trip. I went back to my old red external frame which I love. There was not as much room in my internal frame. The external frame is a lot more flexible in what one can do with it and yes, I like the breathing space I get with it as I tend to hike up mountains and get sweaty, then get cold as soon as I stop. So not getting sweaty in the first place is a real boon. Funny this is the only picture I have of it. I'll have more this summer though.

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Denali National Park

[OhioGrizzLapp]

I use a Nam era medium Alice with the frame and shelf. I rarely use a pack though, but when I do, I load them light. I need to get a new set of shoulder straps for it as the clasps for the webbing are slipping and wearing out, might go to Mollie style shoulder straps if I can find them. The kidney pad is still good, I only use it when I am hauling sleeping gear for someone else like my GF or son or an taking the tent and poles with us.

Other wise I am just usually taking my BOB that is a total of 14 pounds and is a shoulder strap type with a velcro loop to hold to the belt. The son and GF use a med sized belt bag for their stuff.

[Warheit]

Internals definitely serve their purpose, but out in the High Rockies it is essential that I have an external so I can haul things with ease if need be. I'm thinking about getting one of those High Sierra Foxhounds that are a few months old. If anyone has any reviews or good links to quality external frame packs, send them my way. Investing in a lot of gear for this Spring/Summer. Prices couldn't be better.

[sh4d0wm4573ri7]

I prefer external but I to use both . I have about 5-6 different packs

[Beo]

After 8 years of humping a large ruck in the Army, I now have an internal frame, fits a lot of crap, I can strap extra crap to it, its got a padded back and hip/waist belts, and most important of all it's comfortable. Packs to me are a personal choice, there is no best pack just the one that fits your needs and is comfortable to you.

[JahWarrior]

For my purpose ,(day hunts), I go frameless with ALICE. haven't had time yet but trying to attach molle II straps to her. Suggestions welcome.

[Rick]

I'm not certain how you would do that. The D rings should all match but there is also a center strap that attaches to the center of the frame. Since your medium does not have a frame there is nothing for that strap to attach to. I think your solution is to pick up a frame for your pack. Then you'll be able to convert it. I removed the vertical steel stay on my frame and attached the center strap to the horizontal stay. I didn't notice any difference in stability with the vertical stay removed. Of course I'm not humping 100 lbs of gear in combat either. There are plenty of YouTubes for the conversion with the frame.

[Tristar777]

Hi.
I used internal framed packs until I tried the ALICE from a surplus store. (We don't seem to be able to get any civvy selection of external frame packs now in the UK, not sure why?). Since then I have used medium and large ALICE with frame and love em! I know some people find them un comfortable but I guess Im ALICE sized and I don't over pack then.

[Winnie]

I've never found an external pack frame over here either Tristar so like you use an ALICE pack (I won one in a raffle on here a couple of years ago)
I'm not quite ALICE shaped, but then I haven't found a pack with an internal frame that's any more comfy so I stick with it. I would love to have a choice, though.

[hunter63]

Throw them in the truck....they both ride fine.......external or internal.

[finallyME]

For my purpose ,(day hunts), I go frameless with ALICE. haven't had time yet but trying to attach molle II straps to her. Suggestions welcome.

Like Rick said, you can't attach MOLLE stuff without a frame. There is also no reason to. You can upgrade your shoulder straps to LC2 straps, but other than that......

[hayshaker]

every pack has it,s use in hawaii i used a nam era med alice for camping and scrounging.
to day i have more packs than i know what to do with. at least i have choice.
it all depends on how long a trip your taking and what you plan to do. then you can figure the size
pack youll need and what your loadout will be. you dont want to use a 7,500ci pack when all your going to do
is a 3day recon outting.although weather can also play a good part in how your loadout will be,

winter can cause your loadout to be conciderably heavyier than say a summer loadout. that said
you may wish to have a larger pack for the same ammount of time that you would spend in summer.

it,s not prefrense so much but more what type of trip you,ll be on that will dictate what kind of pack or bag you,ll use.

[wilderness medic]

Throw them in the truck....they both ride fine.......external or internal.

LOL

Not too sure what classifies a pack as internal. Any sort of support not visible on the outside of the pack? I've been pleasantly surprised at my 5.11 RUSH 72s internal support backing to carry around 80 pounds tested so far. Hip belt doesn't do much to relieve the weight like an external, but it's not as bad as I thought. Good for UL fast packing or day-a couple day hikes. For extended trips the external packs ability to put some of the load on the waist is nice.