Page 2 of 15 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 288

Thread: Real MEN vs. Modern WIMP men or where did the adventure spirit go.

  1. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chugach National Forest
    Posts
    9,795
    Blog Entries
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    This, IMO is the root of the problem. Too many are letting or expect government to raise their kids.
    But we have also allowed the government to supervise the day to day decisions parents are allowed to make with how strictly they can discipline their children. A child raised the way I was raised, (I have no complaints) would be taken and put in a foster home, which would be heavily regulated.

    So the government did it, Women did it, Madison Avenue did it. It is not our fault.

    But the problem is still there. Young men, and for all I know middle aged men, feel a hunger, and a drawnness to the outdoors/wilderness. But no good tutor/teacher to guide them.


  2. #22
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    42,946
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Could people like Marlen Power-Johnston be the catalyst to reverse the trend? http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/200...ol-081002.html
    Can't Means Won't

    My Youtube Channel

  3. #23
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Central California/West Texas
    Posts
    6,622

    Default

    man scouts, hrm...

    i'm going to get adam carola and jimmy kimmel on the phone and see about setting something up.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To see what's going on in my knife shop check out CanidArmory on Youtube or on Facebook.

  4. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chugach National Forest
    Posts
    9,795
    Blog Entries
    11

    Default

    You guy's are doing great....so here is a side question, and I hope I don't derail the conversation. But without saying it is you, is this a youth issue only..?? or are there a fair amount of middle aged or older men without basic outdoorsman skills, that feel a void.???

  5. #25
    missing in action trax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    yonder
    Posts
    6,809

    Default

    I wonder how we made it from crawling up out of the primordial muck to the where we now build massive monuments to ourselves called cities without having to address hopeaks' question before? Ohhhh, I know, somewhere in human nature there's something that says do what you gotta do. How do you know that guy in 1930 didn't have any fear in his gut? He took on the job and did what he had to do. You think if someone had said to him here's some goretex and a gps he would have turned them down? I doubt it, he used what he had available, just like Remy's guy crushing the saber tooth's skull or whatever, got a rock...use a rock. Got a gps...use a gps. Personally, my style in the bush is a somewhere in between the two (never used a gps, wouldn't know how, couldn't be bothered) but the point is, (I know you weren't ranting against equipment) that humans will do what they have to in order to survive.

    I know a single parent who raised five kids in the bush, ran a trapline every day in the winters of northern Manitoba, cut firewood, used a .22 to kill moose (it was what was available) used natural medicines, homemade soaps and cleansers and made the kids clothes from store bought wool and animal hides. I don't think it ever crossed her mind that she had to "man-up" or when her son finally bought her a snowmobile and a .30-30 when he reached adulthood that she was becoming "pussified" I think she just figured life got easier because those things were now available to her.

    To the young ones, yearning to do those kind of things, heck yeah go for it, all I've ever suggested is someone coming from an "urban" (read: 21st, or late 20th century) environment start off small and careful to get your basic training. Nothing is going to teach you better than bush time.
    Last edited by trax; 10-05-2008 at 02:35 PM. Reason: grammatical gaffing
    some fella confronted me the other day and asked "What's your problem?" So I told him, "I don't have a problem I am a problem"

  6. #26
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chugach National Forest
    Posts
    9,795
    Blog Entries
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remy View Post
    lolll

    Why make 1930 the year of the "real men" ?
    Why not go back 30 000 years and proclaim "them" real men ? They did not wear any silly coats, did not have snow shoes, and had a big stone to kill huge mammoths...now that, is a "real" man. 22s and sleeping bags are for sissies.

    Did i mentioned they also lived in caves and could crush the skull of a saber-tooth tiger with one hand ?

    Hopeak...it is called "evolution".
    It is the difference between dying at 30 of old age, or 100 still dancing the waltz and ****ing the nurse...The difference between set roles within families, and women becoming equals.
    Your nostalgic idea of what a "real man" is, seams obsolete.

    It is also called by anthropologists misoneism.
    Hold on to your ears, because the "line" between male and female is only going to get thinner, and thinner. Because genders and their respective roles are becoming obsolete too.

    What defines a "real man", is biological, and not cultural or idealistic.
    Many villages in south america for example have seen a surge of women wanting to leave the village for the USA, or a big city...Why ? Well, evolution...they are tired of dealing with their roles within those cultures. Of having sex for 1 minute and a half and bearing 15 children, and washing, and cooking, and carrying, and dealing with their menstruations by means of banana leaves.

    Our children probably understand this more than we do. Although boys will be boys, the need for their adaptation to new roles is paramount to their survival and mental equilibrium. Yes, man is evolving too. In fact, it becomes harder and harder for me to sometimes even decipher gender while walking the streets of my city.

    Following your idea of what a "real man" is, i would have to exclude geeks, nerds, or simply men that do not have the need to prove themselves by forced marches or by being able to hunt and grow a beard...lolll

    "Strong man spirit" scares me.
    That same spirit created hatred, prisons, wars, racism and who knows what.

    Further more...it is not every-men that did what this guy did...yes ?
    Through out history, we have many examples of amazing stories about individuals pushing themselves to accomplish dangerous and sometimes foolish things. Many of those men paid the ultimate price for this...

    What we "need" if anything, is reason.
    Through reason follow evolution, through evolution find adaptation...and through adaptation find better chances of survival.

    Remy, If I lived in Los Angles I might get enrolled in your intellectual mambo jumbo double talk. Your major skill is twisting conversations, with mental and linguistic masturbation. I can sure understand that, as you say "Strong man spirit scares you". How you like them APPLES...??? And just for the record: "Strong man spirit don't scare this cowboy"......

  7. #27
    Senior Member Ole WV Coot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southern WV , raised in Eastern KY up a holler
    Posts
    2,668

    Default

    Back when I was getting out of school we had this thing called a DRAFT. That might be an unfamiliar word to a lot of you but if you wanted adventure in far away countries, exotic women, meet new people and grow up to be a REAL man or die trying. You would get a personal letter that started : Greetings from the President.....why you just knew with the President's help you would be taught all sorts of things your momma never thought about teaching you. The job skills you were taught could get you a job with a nice man called "Mad Mike" and benefits just for the taking. Best of all you would be a REAL MAN.
    Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old
    to fight... he'll just kill you.

  8. #28
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chugach National Forest
    Posts
    9,795
    Blog Entries
    11

    Default

    Remy, As far as I am assessing it, you and your thinking is part of the problem. How you like them APPLES...???

  9. #29
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Central California/West Texas
    Posts
    6,622

    Default

    living in LA or AK bears little on the validity of the points remy raised, and i am inclined to ask; what in them you interperate as double talk?

    i am able to see the validity both in your views and in remy's and feel they both miss the crux of the issue [as does mine].

    the arbitrary assignment of manliness as the driving force behind ambition or individualism is as flawed as the notion that such agressive and masculine attitudes are without modern social merit.

    point in case; machismo gets a lot of jobs done long after the muscle is ready to give up, but so does maternity or any other personal or emotional resolve.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To see what's going on in my knife shop check out CanidArmory on Youtube or on Facebook.

  10. #30
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Central California/West Texas
    Posts
    6,622

    Default

    this is not to devalue the issue you raised, but only to point out a shortsight on both sides.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To see what's going on in my knife shop check out CanidArmory on Youtube or on Facebook.

  11. #31
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chugach National Forest
    Posts
    9,795
    Blog Entries
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by canid View Post
    living in LA or AK bears little on the validity of the points remy raised, and i am inclined to ask; what in them you interperate as double talk?

    i am able to see the validity both in your views and in Remy's and feel they both miss the crux of the issue [as does mine].

    the arbitrary assignment of manliness as the driving force behind ambition or individualism is as flawed as the notion that such aggressive and masculine attitudes are without modern social merit.

    point in case; machismo gets a lot of jobs done long after the muscle is ready to give up, but so does maternity or any other personal or emotional resolve.
    Canid, I am sorry, But I just love getting in Remy's face. You are correct, and "Real Men" was not a good choice of words on my part. So let me retract that (Retract that, is that sissy talk or what). I still maintain that there is a "Something" that did exist, that is rare to find today. And Remy's use of junior year college dorm talk always reminds me of Matt Damom, in Good Will Hunting. When Matt puts the student in his place who is using two dollar words for a fifty cent sentence, trying to wow the girls in the bar.

    I like Remy, and I like him best when he talks straight across to us and not down to us. And I have seen his posts where he does not come on like a college professor. He is smart, and well educated, and so annoying sometimes. But I think he delights in pushing peoples buttons. And I enjoy steping on his toes, just to pee him off.

  12. #32
    "sorry backside" rebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,905
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    1. The guy who walked around in AK. That was the job he was paid for, correct?

    2. Where can you go that hasn't already been adventurously explored?

  13. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not your house
    Posts
    304

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rebel View Post
    1. The guy who walked around in AK. That was the job he was paid for, correct?

    2. Where can you go that hasn't already been adventurously explored?
    Let me and alot of others get this strait..........................
    Are you asking HopeAk where he's been that has not been adventurously
    explored? Well he was in a good mood all morning. Now you've done done it!!!!
    The maximum effective range of a excuse is.......
    -----------0-----------METERS----------------

  14. #34
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chugach National Forest
    Posts
    9,795
    Blog Entries
    11

    Default

    [QUOTE=rebel;75486]1. The guy who walked around in AK. That was the job he was paid for, correct?


    Not really, for sure not in 1915, later he was hired by the government to follow the 40 mile caribou herd.


    2. Where can you go that hasn't already been adventurously explored?


    I look across Six-mile creek a an expanse of wilderness that has never been explored. Only a handfull of people have ever been over there, and that was mostly more than 100 years ago.

    If you saw Alaska from a aircraft that top speed is 95 MPH you would see that there is still many large chunks of unexplored wilderness.

    As I have said many times I walk out my back door and hike and never ever find any tracks but mine, and have never found a candy wrapper, beer can, or any sign of man. Sometimes I find 115 year old mining stuff, or 50 year old traps embedded in trees.
    Last edited by Sourdough; 10-05-2008 at 04:14 PM.

  15. #35
    "sorry backside" rebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,905
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    My questions were not obscure. What are you saying Fletcher?
    Last edited by rebel; 10-05-2008 at 04:21 PM.

  16. #36
    "sorry backside" rebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,905
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I would have thought all land areas would have had documented human contact by now.

    [QUOTE=hopeak;75488]
    Quote Originally Posted by rebel View Post
    1. The guy who walked around in AK. That was the job he was paid for, correct?


    Not really, for sure not in 1915, later he was hired by the government to follow the 40 mile caribou herd.


    2. Where can you go that hasn't already been adventurously explored?


    I look across Six-mile creek a an expanse of wilderness that has never been explored. Only a handfull of people have ever been over there, and that was mostly more than 100 years ago.

    If you saw Alaska from a aircraft that top speed is 95 MPH you would see that there is still many large chunks of unexplored wilderness.

    As I have said many times I walk out my back door and hike and never ever find any tracks but mine, and have never found a candy wrapper, beer can, or any sign of man. Sometimes I find 115 year old mining stuff, or 50 year old traps embedded in trees.

  17. #37
    Coming through klkak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    3,013
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trax View Post
    I know a single parent who raised five kids in the bush, ran a trap line every day in the winters of northern Manitoba, cut firewood, used a .22 to kill moose (it was what was available) used natural medicines, homemade soaps and cleansers and made the kids clothes from store bought wool and animal hides. I don't think it ever crossed her mind that she had to "man-up" or when her son finally bought her a snowmobile and a .30-30 when he reached adulthood that she was becoming "pussified" I think she just figured life got easier because those things were now available to her.
    Trax, With minor exception you could be describing my Mother.

    Hope, The men you describe taking on the wild in the early days were for the most part few and far between. I have known a couple of them and they were a rare breed. Back in "the old days" I'm thinking folks were a little tougher. They had to work harder to compensate for the technology they used.

    When my grandfather started logging he used a crosscut saw and an axe. It would take all day to fell a single Douglas fir or Ponderosa. His first power saw was so big it took a couple men to carry it and set it up. By the time he quit logging his saw was about 90 lbs. A faller today is using a saw that weighs 30 to 40 lbs.

    What I'm getting at is. Why carry 100 lbs. of old technology when you can carry 40 lbs. of new. I am sure the fella you talked about walking to America would not have walked if he would have had a "Tundra" or "SWT" and the availability of fuel.

    As to the young men and women who don't know anything about things wild. They were not raised close to the land. They and most likely their families were born and raise in the city. They have a desire but don't know where or how to fulfill it. Thats where you and I and the others here come in.

    Nearly every day of the summer I get clients who have never even seen an ATV. I spend all day teaching and coaching them so that they can have a once in a lifetime experience. And when I'm out on the trail and come upon someone having difficulty, I will take a moment to coach them also if they are receptive.

    I am far from being a saint. I am guilty of being sarcastic to some folks. But that is my sin to answer for. Every man and woman of us who have wisdom should without hesitation share it with those who seek it. In doing so we help a few who in return may help a few more.

    I may be wrong but I don't think so.
    Last edited by klkak; 10-05-2008 at 04:40 PM.
    1. If it's in your kit and you don't know how to use it....It's useless.
    2. If you can't reach your kit when you need it....Its useless.

    Alaska Backcountry Adventure Tours
    www.youralaskavacation.com
    Tell them Kevin sent you!!

  18. #38
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chugach National Forest
    Posts
    9,795
    Blog Entries
    11

    Default

    [QUOTE=rebel;75491]I would have thought all land areas would have had documented human contact by now.

    A friend once pointed out that most trails in Alaska are on one side of a creek.

    Cross the creek and there is no human sign.

    Which nicely ties in with the subject that nowdays people stay on the trail.
    Last edited by Sourdough; 10-05-2008 at 04:51 PM.

  19. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not your house
    Posts
    304

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rebel View Post
    My questions were not obscure. What are you saying Fletcher?
    HopeAK Has answered the question there are thousands apond thousands
    of acres unexplored
    how about the amazon, Africa, Canada, and more and more.
    The maximum effective range of a excuse is.......
    -----------0-----------METERS----------------

  20. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not your house
    Posts
    304

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rebel View Post
    How 're them beers treating ya?
    Try again I don't use alcohol or drugs. Never have never will.
    The maximum effective range of a excuse is.......
    -----------0-----------METERS----------------

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •