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Thread: Real MEN vs. Modern WIMP men or where did the adventure spirit go.

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    Default Real MEN vs. Modern WIMP men or where did the adventure spirit go.

    A friend called yesterday to read to me something in the Oct. issue of Alaska Magazine. A piece about back in the 1930's when some businessmen in Fairbanks were dreaming of a road to Alaska. There was a vast uncharted, unexplored expanse between Fairbanks and America. So they get this guy to walk on snowshoes (Because he would not be able to cross unknown rivers in the summer) from Fairbanks to America. It was -30 degrees below the day he started in January. 1,500 miles alone, took three months, his parka weighed 7.5 pounds, his sleeping bag weighed 8 pounds. His gun was a .22 rifle.

    No Goat-tex, no GPS, No maps. Just go.

    Now days it's, "what is the best panties, what is the best shirtie, whats the lightest pack frame, because I am not man enough for 1.1 extra pounds. Would someone hold my hand, I am think of go out in the dark. WHAT happened to MEN.....?

    If you read Alaska's Wolfman, He (Grasser) walked back and forth across Alaska, over and over, and over, North to south, East to west, west to east, in 1915. WHAT happened to the real MEN....?

    Really, what happened in the last 50 to 80 years to men.

    You see it a lot in this forum, everyone is looking for someone to go with them on hike, with a map, GPS, Headlight, GOAT-TEX this and that. And there sissy little 45 pound pack, MAN-UP...MEN.

    H*LL you got your super, duper, Survival Knife..........MAN-UP. Stop living in your daydreams, and fantasies.

    There are Damn few men on this Forum who could grab there gear, and walk into the wilderness for 3 to 6 months with zero fear in there gut. And I mean no map, no GPS, no new wonder thingie, just basic gear that real men did it with in the days when men were men.

    Sorry if I hurt anyones feeling. The time to man-up is now. America suffers from a lack of strong man spirit. Yes, the military turns out strong fighting men. But it is a different spirit, than the spirit I call forth here.


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    Yep what he said
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    Im with you on this one. I despise most modern day things.
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    I want to be clear that I am not raving against modern gear. As I am want to know what shifted in men, in societies expectations of men, of men expectations of them self.

    What is it that made men just go, just go, they did it. Now it is talk about it, worry over each detail, each piece of gear has to be perfect, state of the art. Something shifted, in men, WHAT shifted. (Maybe it shifted with the space program, the endless checking and retesting of equipment).

    You see young men here longing for it, questing for how to get it, It is something in our Mythology that has shifted. What was common, or semi-common for a man to do just 50 years ago, is now considered foolishly dangerous. WHY....????

    It is not that human life is all that important. Today there are nearly (7) seven BILLION humans, vs. Just over one billion humans 100 years ago.
    Last edited by Sourdough; 10-05-2008 at 10:07 AM.

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    Hopeak,I think it has to do with more people living in the cities,and what drove them into the cities looking for jobs where they no longer worked the farms,hunted or ran trap lines in all kinds of inclimate weather,and we all know what pushed them to that 80 years ago.
    Add to that the invention,and marketing of all the new gear that is now available,and people who have to have the very best and willing to spend the money on it.
    It's getting cooler here now,and the Amish have started wearing their winter coats,and all through winter,they will wear that same winter coat, they may add a set of wool underwear,but throughout winter the only other noticeable addition to that coat,is a pair of gloves,and a blanket,if it is raining or snowing an umbrella completes their winter gear,at least when traveling.
    Could we handle it like they do?? I don't think many of us could.
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    Nell, O.K. I buy that. But it is the spirit that is gone or shifted. I get what you are saying, but........if who and what men are has shifted that much.........what will the spirit of men be in 70 years....???

    I see so many young men on this forum longing for something, questing.

    Maybe it has to do with so many men raised without a strong father figure, or any father, or any man in their young life, there formidable years.

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    Joseph Campbell wrote extensively, about mythology, and the lack of any rite-of-passage for modern males.
    Last edited by Sourdough; 10-05-2008 at 10:43 AM.

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    GPS??? like I can afford one of those thingamabobs. Goat tex, is that that breathable material that is waterproof? Ya could always just not get wet or maybe suck it up I guess.

    What you speak of is the pus sification of the American male. It starts in school where the women of the world try and succeed in stealing away a boys adventures. It is followed by the taking away of the young mans testosterone by expelling him when he gets into fights, general boy fights.

    It then progress' as the male figure in the family, decides to leave the family in search of satisfying his selfish needs rather than sticking it out and raising his sons.

    By high school, the young man is lost, his idols are those tv bad guys who seem to have everything that he does not. He may venture on the other side of the law once or twice for small things, but society has made it to were if he smokes a joint, or gets in a fight that he ends up in a detention area where his ideals and goals slowly change.

    If he is lucky, he will join the military and get some discipline that if he is lucky, may stick with him when he gets out.

    He then finds himself, an adult male, sitting in front of a tv on sat. and sunday, mentally masturbating and dreaming of being a sports player that he so adores on the sports channel. He takes another slug of beer, eats more nachos and returns to reality understanding that he just can't be what he dreams.

    Oooops,,,,,,,,,kind of went off there.


    There is nothing wrong with modern equipment. It's not the equipment that makes the man, but rather the man. So, if you pack up your gps, adorn your fashion statement gore tex hiking gear, and hit the woods. It just does not matter, because you are hitting the woods.

    I have been wondering the woods since I was 8 years old. Many times if luck had not been with me, I would not have returned. As I sit here, 45 years old, looking back at my adventures, civilian and military, I grin with joy as I've seen such things that many, even here have not.

    I also frown as there are many who have seen such things that I just may not in my lifetime.

    I don't care, if you walk in the woods with the latest expensive equipment while I walk in with a mixture of primitive and not so modern gear.

    Just as long as you are walking in the woods.

    And if you come up short, with all your fancy whoohawws, or they fail, and you're not an arsehole, you can take a seat at my fire and I'll share a cup of coffee, or whateve is on the spit with ya.

    If'n you're a pompass arsehole, who had been making fun of my stickbow and primitive gear, gonna be a cold, wet, hungry night for you.
    Last edited by FVR; 10-05-2008 at 10:50 AM.

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    Senior Member nell67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeak View Post
    Nell, O.K. I buy that. But it is the spirit that is gone or shifted. I get what you are saying, but........if who and what men are has shifted that much.........what will the spirit of men be in 70 years....???

    I see so many young men on this forum longing for something, questing.

    Maybe it has to do with so many men raised without a strong father figure, or any father, or any man in their young life, there formidable years.
    Maybe things are shifting back to where they are supposed to be hopeak? I don't know,but there sure seems to be several young ones who are looking in the right direction,they just don't know how to go about it,and with a lack of knowledgeable males to look up to in their communities,they come to places like this seeking what they are looking for.
    Still,they just don't know how to ask for help either,maybe they think they have to sound like the gung ho macho wanna be's they see on TV,just like the little kid who puts moms best towel on and wants to be superman,these youngster buy every new knife and gizmo marketed to the survivalist mentality they pick up from all these survival shows they see,and get their feelings hurt when someone tells them that it just isn't that easy.
    Soular powered by the son.

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    Maybe that's why they are here. To get the real scoop.

    Nothing wrong with checking your gear, what you fail to miss is that in the old days, it was a way of life. Life has changed and so has the survival.

    Nothing is to be gained by insulting one on his type of gear. Constructive advise never hurts, but with an attitude, it sucks.

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    I see nothing wrong with high tec gear. what i see is guys think that it is necessary
    for his-her well being its not. its the persons SKILL with the gear they have!!!!!!!!!! However skill is not learned from a book or a TV you must go OUTSIDE to learn survival skills. No one call tell you how to hunt fish hike camp you have got to DO IT not read about it or watch it on TV or BUY it--- can't be done. If you live in a place where you can't hunt or fish or hike or camp WHY DO YOU LIVE THERE???????????????????????????????????
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    Default The real point of the thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by hopeak View Post
    A friend called yesterday to read to me something in the Oct. issue of Alaska Magazine. A piece about back in the 1930's when some businessmen in Fairbanks were dreaming of a road to Alaska. There was a vast uncharted, unexplored expanse between Fairbanks and America. So they get this guy to walk on snowshoes (Because he would not be able to cross unknown rivers in the summer) from Fairbanks to America. It was -30 degrees below the day he started in January. 1,500 miles alone, took three months, his parka weighed 7.5 pounds, his sleeping bag weighed 8 pounds. His gun was a .22 rifle.

    No Goat-tex, no GPS, No maps. Just go.

    Now days it's, "what is the best panties, what is the best shirtie, whats the lightest pack frame, because I am not man enough for 1.1 extra pounds. Would someone hold my hand, I am think of go out in the dark. WHAT happened to MEN.....?

    If you read Alaska's Wolfman, He (Grasser) walked back and forth across Alaska, over and over, and over, North to south, East to west, west to east, in 1915. WHAT happened to the real MEN....?

    Really, what happened in the last 50 to 80 years to men.

    You see it a lot in this forum, everyone is looking for someone to go with them on hike, with a map, GPS, Headlight, GOAT-TEX this and that. And there sissy little 45 pound pack, MAN-UP...MEN.

    H*LL you got your super, duper, Survival Knife..........MAN-UP. Stop living in your daydreams, and fantasies.

    There are Damn few men on this Forum who could grab there gear, and walk into the wilderness for 3 to 6 months with zero fear in there gut. And I mean no map, no GPS, no new wonder thingie, just basic gear that real men did it with in the days when men were men.

    Sorry if I hurt anyones feeling. The time to man-up is now. America suffers from a lack of strong man spirit. Yes, the military turns out strong fighting men. But it is a different spirit, than the spirit I call forth here.
    Hopeak, I think I know what you are saying. You are not knocking modern gear, just the fact that men/women are not DOING anything about their dreams or potential. When I was a kid I was lucky to have a granddad that was willing to show me how to live in the moment and to 'step past fear' and take a chance at really living. I am engaged to a young lady and we talk about raising our own spawn. I say things like he/she will learn to shoot, fish, fight, and outdoorsy things that I feel make a person stronger and more confident. She says not until they are 'old enough' I think 8-9 years old for most of it, she says that is too young and they could be hurt. I think our society is doing our spirit in kinda like FVR said. I hope to change that in our family.
    Sorry about the rant.
    -Sam

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    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    hey now. i don't need my goretex, it's just a luxury. see, i can do without it *twitch, twitch*.

    it seems to me that i remember beint twice, three times as tough as a kid. i grew up in alaska and i remember trekking around every nook and cranny in my little edge of tongass i could find, soaked to the bone, in all seasons of the year just in the hope of seeing something new, even if it where a squirrel i didn't recognize. never died of exposure, never got so tired i started wondering if i was too far past the halfway point to bother turning back. i just liked to get out there.

    i wonder if what we really need is to man up, or maby to grow back towards childhood a little bit, with it's dauntless ambition, playfull exuberance and wide eyed wonder. the world might look more like a place worth doing something in.

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    The stripping down of any male values will have dire consequences if a social catastrophy takes place. Who is going to be able to protect and sustain his family if he has been held back and coddled, these skills are acquire throughout infancy, childhood and youth into adulthood, takes time. What are you going to get is over reaction to responses or no action just TALK it out, yah right!!
    Last edited by tsitenha; 10-05-2008 at 12:39 PM.

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    O.K. your doing good, I wonder if other than your own children, what as a society could be done...???

    Clearly the "Boy Scouts of America" has been neutered, with fear of legal, and parental retribution.

    Do we need a man scouts, like the old Youth Conservation Core (YCC) where they go are required to go live the the wilderness and build, or repair trails and bridges, etc. every summer?

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    Infrastructure works would be a start, they had these project in older days, expanded a mans look on life. but someone would assuradly misuse it and it would tumble down in chaos

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    Odd that as a country we have 850, Billion dollars for some things. Buy youth outdoor programs go broke.

    Maybe it is as SAM said, you raise your kids as best as you can, and hope some government agency does not come down on you because you took your kid camping in the rain, or he cut himself.

    Maybe the whole nanny state mentality is some how a part if the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeak View Post
    Odd that as a country we have 850, Billion dollars for some things. Buy youth outdoor programs go broke.

    Maybe it is as SAM said, you raise your kids as best as you can, and hope some government agency does not come down on you because you took your kid camping in the rain, or he cut himself.

    Maybe the whole nanny state mentality is some how a part if the issue.
    This, IMO is the root of the problem. Too many are letting or expect government to raise their kids.
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    FVR, I am interested in the essence of why men were different 70 years ago. As for the gear, I don't care what people use, if they use it. I do have a issue with confusing spending the weekend in the wilderness with having spent the weekend at REI shopping, and that some people get the same rush form both, and collapse the two distinct domains, as being one and the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeak View Post
    Odd that as a country we have 850, Billion dollars for some things. Buy youth outdoor programs go broke.

    Maybe it is as SAM said, you raise your kids as best as you can, and hope some government agency does not come down on you because you took your kid camping in the rain, or he cut himself.

    Maybe the whole nanny state mentality is some how a part if the issue.
    Hopeak, I think the 'man' fears citizens that are self sustaining because we might not need them for EVERY LITTLE THING, (end rant) so you get the generation of people that don't know they are responsible for them selves.
    -Sam

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