Camping or surviving?

[Sarge47]

There seems to be a problem here where the lines between survival and camping are getting blurred. It is my educated opinion that if you sit down, plan it out, then do it and everything goes according to plan, that's camping, not survival, even if you're duplicating survival skills and using you're survival gear. The type of camping is the question. For example, TBWN's are not going out to survive, they are going camping, minimalist camping to be sure, but camping. They've laid out their plan, made their equipment list, short as it is, and are going to leave soon. If &/or when it all goes "south" then they'll find themselves in a survival situation. People like myself & Marscroft who take everything they can into the woods are the other end of the "camping" spectrum. Oddly enough, those who plan properly and carry the right amount of equipment and knowledge into the field never really run into a survival situation. This is the 1st of several posts on this thread that I'm going to do to see what you folks think. Starting out here is "defining survival". Now you all know what I think, tell me what you think!

[ryaninmichigan]

Oddly enough, those who plan properly and carry the right amount of equipment and knowledge into the field never really run into a survival situation. This is the 1st of several posts on this thread that I'm going to do to see what you folks think. Starting out here is "defining survival". Now you all know what I think, tell me what you think!:confused Marscroft who take everything they can into the woods are the other end of the "camping" :

So if you take what you need aren’t you in fact surviving? And not taking what you need is a survival situation? I guess I will never be in survival situation by your definition, cause I always make sure I have what I need.

[owl_girl]

So if you take what you need aren’t you in fact surviving? And not taking what you need is a survival situation? I guess I will never be in survival situation by your definition, cause I always make sure I have what I need.

Almost everyone has been in a survival situation. It doesn’t have to be a big disaster. Example fighting to get to the surface of the water before you drowned maybe from being in a car that’s trapped under water or from being sucked under a logjam. I watched my friend almost die from getting sucked under a logjam.

[owl_girl]

So if you take what you need aren’t you in fact surviving? And not taking what you need is a survival situation? I guess I will never be in survival situation by your definition, cause I always make sure I have what I need.

He said if everything goes according to plan that’s not a survival situation. Even if you are prepared things can happen to put you in a survival situation, preparing is not guaranteeing your safe return. Lets say you were camping in a forest clearing in the middle of nowhere and you were scheduled to be picked up in about a week by your family or friends who live about a 6 hour drive away and your totally prepared with everything you can think of plus your camp is set right next to a clear stream, well lets say lightning starts a forest fire a couple miles away. that’s an example of how you plans might not work out while camping even if your prepared.

[Tony uk]

There seems to be a problem here where the lines between survival and camping are getting blurred. It is my educated opinion that if you sit down, plan it out, then do it and everything goes according to plan, that's camping, not survival, even if you're duplicating survival skills and using you're survival gear. The type of camping is the question. For example, TBWN's are not going out to survive, they are going camping, minimalist camping to be sure, but camping. They've laid out their plan, made their equipment list, short as it is, and are going to leave soon. If &/or when it all goes "south" then they'll find themselves in a survival situation. People like myself & Marscroft who take everything they can into the woods are the other end of the "camping" spectrum. Oddly enough, those who plan properly and carry the right amount of equipment and knowledge into the field never really run into a survival situation. This is the 1st of several posts on this thread that I'm going to do to see what you folks think. Starting out here is "defining survival". Now you all know what I think, tell me what you think!

I agree Sarge with what you are saying

"Survival - Survival techniques are skills that may help one to survive dangerous situations. The most common skills are the ability to swim, climb, light a fire and find shelter, although it depends on the situation. There are several books that teach one how to survive in dangerous situations, and schools usually tell kids what to do in case of earthquake and fire. Some cities also carry contingency plans in case of a major disaster. "

[Sarge47]

Both Tony UK & Owl Girl got it figured out, although Ryaninmichigan(RiM) has a point too. I'm waiting to see more responses before I hit you all with the next one!

[wareagle69]

call it camping or practicing primitive skills whether or not i bring every thing or nothing a survival situation is when your life or well being is put into jepordy even if i am out walking the dogs in the woods and i fall and break my ankle chances are this is not going to be life threatening, even by off chance i'm stuck all night i can light a fire crawl around and gather enough wood to keep me warm, i once walked for two days and drove an old 69 ford stick after a rodeo when a bull called forced labour stepped on my ankle breaking it in two places, my life was not in peril i just adapted to the situation drove home and went to the hospital(drove from colorado to phx)got yelled at by the wife but..

now a survival situation is going out for what was suppoesed to be a 45 minute mission being stuck all night in a fire fight no food no water and lots of pissed off skinnys all messed up on khat.(sp)

[Tony uk]

Both Tony UK & Owl Girl got it figured out, although Ryaninmichigan(RiM) has a point too. I'm waiting to see more responses before I hit you all with the next one!

Now we've got something to wonder about

[ryaninmichigan]

He said if everything goes according to plan that’s not a survival situation. Even if you are prepared things can happen to put you in a survival situation, preparing is not guaranteeing your safe return. Lets say you were camping in a forest clearing in the middle of nowhere and you were scheduled to be picked up in about a week by your family or friends who live about a 6 hour drive away and your totally prepared with everything you can think of plus your camp is set right next to a clear stream, well lets say lightning starts a forest fire a couple miles away. that’s an example of how you plans might not work out while camping even if your prepared.

pack your **** and head out........

[Sarge47]

call it camping or practicing primitive skills whether or not i bring every thing or nothing a survival situation is when your life or well being is put into jepordy even if i am out walking the dogs in the woods and i fall and break my ankle chances are this is not going to be life threatening, even by off chance i'm stuck all night i can light a fire crawl around and gather enough wood to keep me warm, i once walked for two days and drove an old 69 ford stick after a rodeo when a bull called forced labour stepped on my ankle breaking it in two places, my life was not in peril i just adapted to the situation drove home and went to the hospital(drove from colorado to phx)got yelled at by the wife but..

now a survival situation is going out for what was suppoesed to be a 45 minute mission being stuck all night in a fire fight no food no water and lots of pissed off skinnys all messed up on khat.(sp)

It's when the situation is "life or death", everything else is just "playtime"! There have been cases where properly prepared people breezed through a survival situation but they are few. Here's a scenario that is far fetched but could happen; RiM is out in the woods with some "know-nothing nimrods" (NNN, not to be confused with TBWN) A pit viper strikes, hits him in the throat and he does a "Steve Irwin", IOW...he dies. The NNN are left on their own without the expert guidance of one of our Wolf brethren. Reverse that, The snake strikes, just missing RiM, who slips, losing his footing as well as his pack, Rifle, Mortor, .50 Cal, and anything else his family might have decided to bring along, down a steep embankment. With language that Chris won't allow here, RiM slides down the embankment after his coveted arsenal, only to wind up in a valley with no apparent way out. Worse, he's lost his portable armory and starts to resemble "Burt Gummer" on a bad day. He finds his compass and map & his knife is still on his belt along with some 550 cord wrapped around his waste and some Trash bags in one of the pockets of his BDU's. Shrugging it off to experience and hoping his family doesn't realize their loss of firepower, Burt...I mean RiM, sets up a camp, traps a rabbit, drinks from a stream, and calmly kicks back to be rescued 48 hours later by a wandering group of Brownies out on a hike from the park's playground only 200 yards away that he didn't notice because of the heavy brush. Both are survival scenarios, just different kinds. Next well be discussing the validity of camo clothing vs. bright colored, naming your knife or other gear, And what does "over the top" really mean.

[wareagle69]

no more cafeine for sarge...

[ryaninmichigan]

Here is the deal. You need to define “survival”. I survive everyday obviously. I can swim, climb, and fight. All very well. Am I a survivor?
I would like to think so. Will I allow myself to be dropped off in the Michigan woods in November with nothing but a tee-shirt and jeans? No. that is dumb. I will not risk my life to “test” myself. Do I do surprise camping with my brother in law where you only have 15 minutes to get ready? All the time… So I again ask what is the point? I will never be in the wild with out the most basic things, in the event everything goes south. IMO that is part of what being a survivor is all about.. Quick check list for a day a field. Bottle of water, leatherman wave, magnesium fire starter, pack of smokes, if hunting, shotgun, or rifle. With that alone I am good for a few days if need be. Now head to the U.P. and go out for the day in millions of acres no one around? My pack gets a little heavier. I have spent more then one night out up there by the way that I was not planning on and it was nothing more then an unplanned camping trip to me…

[ryaninmichigan]

It's when the situation is "life or death", everything else is just "playtime"! There have been cases where properly prepared people breezed through a survival situation but they are few. Here's a scenario that is far fetched but could happen; RiM is out in the woods with some "know-nothing nimrods" (NNN, not to be confused with TBWN) A pit viper strikes, hits him in the throat and he does a "Steve Irwin", IOW...he dies. The NNN are left on their own without the expert guidance of one of our Wolf brethren. Reverse that, The snake strikes, just missing RiM, who slips, losing his footing as well as his pack, Rifle, Mortor, .50 Cal, and anything else his family might have decided to bring along, down a steep embankment. With language that Chris won't allow here, RiM slides down the embankment after his coveted arsenal, only to wind up in a valley with no apparent way out. Worse, he's lost his portable armory and starts to resemble "Burt Gummer" on a bad day. He finds his compass and map & his knife is still on his belt along with some 550 cord wrapped around his waste and some Trash bags in one of the pockets of his BDU's. Shrugging it off to experience and hoping his family doesn't realize their loss of firepower, Burt...I mean RiM, sets up a camp, traps a rabbit, drinks from a stream, and calmly kicks back to be rescued 48 hours later by a wandering group of Brownies out on a hike from the park's playground only 200 yards away that he didn't notice because of the heavy brush. Both are survival scenarios, just different kinds. Next well be discussing the validity of camo clothing vs. bright colored, naming your knife or other gear, And what does "over the top" really mean.

I do not carry all that crap. I assume you are joking. Camo vs. bright. The question is what are you trying to do be found or not? The answer to the clothing is obvious. Side note. I tried posting my first post and it took forever in which you posted. BTW I like RiM.

[Sarge47]

I do not carry all that crap. I assume you are joking. Camo vs. bright. The question is what are you trying to do be found or not? The answer to the clothing is obvious. Side note. I tried posting my first post and it took forever in which you posted. BTW I like RiM.

Yes I was being very silly, but It got people to reading and I was stating the obvious: "Chance favors the prepared mind". Your's seems to be prepared, and that's the point. My respect for you has risen a notch because of your statement: "I will not risk my life to test myself!" Survival is a matter of life or death, it might be an "unplanned camping trip", as you put it, or something completely disasterous.(sp?) The less it can take you by surprise, the better? So RiM, (yeah, I like that name too) you started to answer my next question, when would you want to be found? Anybody?

[ryaninmichigan]

I would want to be found in an unplanned camping trip and did not know the way out. Or if I was hurt. That is about it really. If I am out there of my own accord then I would take the necessary steps to avoid detection.

[ryaninmichigan]

Your's seems to be prepared, and that's the point. My respect for you has risen a notch because of your statement: "I will not risk my life to test myself!" :

thank you, I respect you also

[FVR]

Surviving, you want to hear about surviving?

Wife is sick, 4yr old sick, 5yr old sick, and guess who woke up hacking and coughing, no energy, my fingers are even tired. Me, the man.

We are also dog sitting two obnoxious dogs.

Gonna be a loooooong weekend.


Wish we were well and camping.

[Sarge47]

Surviving, you want to hear about surviving?

Wife is sick, 4yr old sick, 5yr old sick, and guess who woke up hacking and coughing, no energy, my fingers are even tired. Me, the man.

We are also dog sitting two obnoxious dogs.

Gonna be a loooooong weekend.


Wish we were well and camping.

Your fingers are still strong enough to type!

[FVR]

It's a habit. I type between coughs.

[Sarge47]

Awhile back Wild Goth posted he was looking for a pack. I had suggested L.L. Bean's Bigelow Daypack but he declined because it wasn't in camo. When I last visited Buck Knives web-site they were advertising their latest "multi-tool" in "Real-Tree" camo. My position on this is that Buck's purpose in doing so is purely motivated by shrewd marketing. Many outdoors people are sold on the Real-Tree products, and while I agree that they are effective as Camoflage, there comes a time when enough is enough. Drop one of those camo'd multi-tools in the grass and have fun looking for it!

On the flip side, I own a ton of military BDU's in both Woodland and Desert Camo because it's a cheap way for me to get durable clothes with lots of pockets, including cargo pockets. I carry a bright orange emergency poncho and trash bags in case things ever go south. I'd like to hear your opinions as to what do you think about Camo from a survival viewpoint? Is it germain to our mindset or not?