Best locations / Survival stories

[Sarge47]

.. for calling you an idiot. I just went back & reread everything that was posted. all the early responses were there to HELP you!!! Then you started getting your panties in a bunch because you didn't like the answers. Now you finally come back on & post the only guy that agreed with all of your silliness. (MY opinion!) No, you are NOT an idiot, you are foolhardy, ignorant, hard-headed, uncaring & arrogant. You don't care for you GF's well-being, or that of the poor SAR folks who might get killed pulling your fat out of the fire. Look dude, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Remember the "Grizzly Man"? He, too, refused to listen to reason, & not only did he wind up a "hot lunch", his poor GF was drug into it as well. BTW, we have other groups than just Wolves now, okay?

[klkak]

One of two things is going to happen.

He'll get over it

or

He wont

[crashdive123]

.....and when he does, then two other things will happen.

I'll care

or

I won't.

I know where smart people are placing their bets.

[dbldrew]

.. for calling you an idiot. I just went back & reread everything that was posted. all the early responses were there to HELP you!!! Then you started getting your panties in a bunch because you didn't like the answers.

That is absolutely incorrect, he was taking to heart the advice given, his last post before the insults started was..

“Alright, the warnings are well understood.
It’s not like we are going into the wilderness without preparation. We are well aware of the need to practice and learn about the subject.
The reason why our posts probably seem too optimistic is that we factor in that the trip won’t happen till like a year from now so we’ve got quite some time to prepare.

We will take everything essential and then some with us, keeping it close is logical”
Him stating, “the warnings are well understood” isn’t exactly him “getting his panties in a bunch”

He was also listening to the feedback, He was warned about keeping backup supplies close and he agreed with that. Then he gets called an idiot and the rest is history.

Sarge, just out of curiosity how do you feel about people backpacking? Do you feel they should just stay home to be safe? Because obviously what he proposed to do is basically a backpacking trip for a few weeks. If someone joins the forum and is planning a backpacking trip with his GF, would you freak out and give the same “You find yourself in a situation where your girl-friend's life is hanging by a thread & you watch her die because you can't get any help!” speech?

Obviously he wasn’t a troll, so all you guys did was run off a new member, because he was going camping… What a joke.

Sarge, the job of a moderator is to keep the peace, get rid of trouble makers, keep heated discussions from turning into insults and flame wars, not START the insults and flame wars. Buddy you need to re-evaluate how you’re moderating, because running off new members is not what you’re supposed to do. /end rant…

[Sarge47]

Check your attitude...dude. I just re-read those posts AGAIN & haven't changed my opinion. This is the result of much experience from trolls & folks like that in the past. If my posts can run someone off, how are they going to survive REALLY bad stuff? Go back & read the 1st 3 pages of posts. Everybody was trying to help the guy, yet it got a little tough for him because we weren't telling him what he wanted to hear. I just wish Remy hadn't deleted his posts, they were top-notch. If he gives me permission I can restore them, but that'd be the only way. Rick said that Ral's IP was the same one that we'd had problems with in the past, & he had the same pattern that others before him had done. If he wasn't the same people then he should of stayed & proved himself, just as Sgt. Draino did when he was accused of being a police spy. And please don't confuse my blunt, "in-your-face" way of speaking with flaming; it's not the same. We're talking about LIFE or DEATH here, not a walk in the park, so yes, I'm going to be stern!

[nell67]

Well said Sarge.

[Sarge47]

I just received a "reported post" via e-mail complaining that Dbldrew's post was "provoking an argument." I will NOT name the member who complained, but will say this: "So...?" I truly believe that oft-times debating issues on this site is probably the best thing that can happen. You can usually expect an honest answer from the type of person who's not afraid to stand up to you & speak their mind. DD was doing just that, & I took no offense, just offered my counter argument; which makes me just as guilty as him. Besides, I'm Irish, you ought to see our family reunions if you think this is bad. I respect DD's views, yet disagree; so what? I'm sure he feels the same way, & now that we both have that out in the open perhaps we can communicate more freely; or perhaps not...time will tell.

[dbldrew]

Check your attitude...dude. I just re-read those posts AGAIN & haven't changed my opinion. This is the result of much experience from trolls & folks like that in the past. If my posts can run someone off, how are they going to survive REALLY bad stuff? Go back & read the 1st 3 pages of posts. Everybody was trying to help the guy, yet it got a little tough for him because we weren't telling him what he wanted to hear. I just wish Remy hadn't deleted his posts, they were top-notch. If he gives me permission I can restore them, but that'd be the only way. Rick said that Ral's IP was the same one that we'd had problems with in the past, & he had the same pattern that others before him had done. If he wasn't the same people then he should of stayed & proved himself, just as Sgt. Draino did when he was accused of being a police spy. And please don't confuse my blunt, "in-your-face" way of speaking with flaming; it's not the same. We're talking about LIFE or DEATH here, not a walk in the park, so yes, I'm going to be stern!

I reread them and my opinion stands as well, here is the timeline…

Post 1 – Ralbert states intention and asked a little advice

Posts 3,5,&6 asked for wilderness experience, and how much time his trip will be.

Post 11 Ralbert answers the experience question and answers how long the trip will be, he give a more detailed itinerary of his intentions.

Post 12, 14, general caution about what ifs and needing backup supplies close enough to use them if something goes wrong.

Post 13 suggests practicing/learning/ taking a coarse

Post 15 Thanks the posters for the warnings and agrees with Post 12 and 14 about backup supplies close, comments to post 13 that he will have a year to practice the skills. Ends post with a thank you for the warnings.

Post 19 you call him an idiot (numpty)

Nuff said…

Honestly Sarge, I like the blunt advice you offer, I just think that maybe ease up on the insults, that is the only beef I have with how things went down.

Also thanks for reading this as just a debate and me not trying to start trouble.

Now to get back to “on topic ish” you didn’t answer my question about how you feel about people backpacking?

[Sarge47]

that's a vauge, general question. I think Backpacking is cool, but at what experience level are we talking about here? Even that is dangerous if two people who are new to all of this go alone, you understand? There are many factors to consider, which is all part of survival.

Also, I didn't call him a "Numpty", I said he was rapidly moving over into that area. It was then up to him to show that he wasn't. Trust me on this, we're being a lot easier on him than the outdoors might be.

[dbldrew]

that's a vauge, general question. I think Backpacking is cool, but at what experience level are we talking about here? Even that is dangerous if two people who are new to all of this go alone, you understand? There are many factors to consider, which is all part of survival.

Also, I didn't call him a "Numpty", I said he was rapidly moving over into that area. It was then up to him to show that he wasn't. Trust me on this, we're being a lot easier on him than the outdoors might be.

Well the experience level does play into it I agree, my guess is you wouldn’t suggest that new backpackers first experience would be to hike the whole Appalachian Trail, but start out maybe car camping/ doing short trips.
The thing here is that they where basically camping, going to 1 location and staying, but with only rice for food (and whatever they caught) I see no problem with that at all, depending on how close to their car they are.

My thing is this; practicing wilderness survival is a good thing to do.

I believe that..

Learning from a teacher/coarse is good, but not the only way to learn
Learning from reading books is good, but not the only way to learn
Learning from DVDs is good, but not the only way to learn

Practicing your skills under supervision is good, but not the only way to practice
Practicing your skills in your backyard by yourself is good, but not the only to practice

Practicing what you have learned in a wilderness environment is good, as long as you have the proper safety net (fallback plain, supplies etc). Is there danger in this last example? Sure, but not anymore then a typical backpacking trip, (as long as it’s planned correctly).

Do I think that it’s logical to jump right to the last example with min practice? Not the way that I would do it, and the chance of success isn’t very good, but sometimes more can be learned from failure then success, it’s all about learning and practicing, as long as there is a good safety net in place then a lot could still be learned.

Here is a hypothetical scenario.

My brother, a friend and me are going off to practice our wilderness skills up north next year. We are going to set up 2 camps, my friend is setting up a typical camp with a tent sleeping bags, food supplies etc. My brother and me will be setting up a second primitive camp, where we will make the shelter, fire by primitive means (bow drill) and hunt and trap for food. We will only have knives clothing and a first aid kit at our site, plus what we make. Now the supplies that are in the tent site (30ish yards away) we are trying not to use, obviously if needed they are there.

So the safety net is the other camp supplies, 3rd person checking in on us, our family knows our location, and the car is relatively close (15 min walk). Now I’m reasonably competent with primitive survival, I’m pretty good at making fire by friction, I can make shelters, traps, etc. That being said I get real grouchy after a day or so with out food, so this experiment might only last 3or 4 days before I invade the other camp for food. Now if I’m lucky with hunting and trapping maybe it goes a week or 2 or maybe even a month! Yeah right.. anyway is the safety net I have in place (food, tent, extra clothes, matches, water filtration etc) and a car close buy an acceptable safety net when things don’t go as planned? Or do you think this is a waste of time and I should just stay home?

[crashdive123]

Dbldrew - if it's an open question for all - you have everything with you (in my book, 30 yards is with you) if you need it. I do not believe that is/was the case with the original poster of this thread. I know he said he heard what everybody was saying, but there was no evidence of a plan to do any of that (failure of mission and all).

[Sarge47]

Let's look at the important parts of this post, & I'll give my viewpoint in a non-insulting manner.

Hello Wolves,
While I was cleaning my old bookmarks I stumbled upon this topic again.
I stopped posting because I assumed the topic would die out real fast the moment a moderator falsely accused me of being a notorious troll without proof other than sharing a country's IP with someone else... I know The Netherlands is small but c'mon... (NOTE: THIS IS SUBTLE FLAMING! SARGE!)



I would like to applaud dblDrew for sharing his opinion despite knowing he would be criticized for it by the wolf pack. That takes a real set of balls around here to go up against the majority.(AGAIN, ATTACKS US FOR OUR OPINIONS WHILE MAKING DBLDREW THE HERO. SARGE.)

However, later on his opinions are classified as 'incorrect' because of the ridiculous troll accusations so I thought the least I could do is post here again and restore his opinions simly to what they are… his honest opinions.
(I NEVER DOUBTED THAT THEY WERE HIS OPINIONS, WHERE DOES THIS GUY COME OFF POSTING THAT? SARGE.)


I know you don't want to accept my opinion that this forum is a little bit too much on the side of uncomfortable for newcomers but please don't take it out on one of your own members for sharing this opinion. (AGAIN, SUBTLE FLAMING, ONE-SIDED, & IS TENDING TO PROVOKE DIVISION. SARGE.)

I respect that many of you guys try to warn newcomers about the dangers of survival. I get it, (REALLY, THEN WHAT'S THE PROBLEM? SARGE) most newcomers are way too uninformed.(NO, A LOT OF THEM ARE VERY EXPERIENCED. SARGE) If I was a regular poster on this forum I would also advice them to prepare more. (REALLY? THEN ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU AGREE WITH THE REST OF US? SARGE.)

However there is a line where advice stops being helpful and starts being just plain rude. (THAT "LINE" IS A MATTER OF OPINION. SARGE.)

I know you don't want to accept my opinion that this forum is a little bit too much on the side of uncomfortable for newcomers (UH, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT "SURVIVAL HERE, RIGHT? SARGE) but please don't take it out on one of your own members for sharing this opinion. (AS FAR AS I KNOW THERE ISN'T ANYBODY DOING THAT; IF THERE WAS THEN DD SHOULD COMPLAIN. SARGE.)

I respect that many of you guys try to warn newcomers about the dangers of survival. I get it,(IF YOU "GET IT" THEN WHAT'S THE PROBLEM? SARGE.) most newcomers are way too uninformed. If I was a regular poster on this forum I would also advice them to prepare more.(HOW, SINCE, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION YOU DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE SUBJECT? SARGE.)



Yes, I didn't gave enough information in the first post. (OKAY...SARGE.)
Yes, I do have a too romantic idea about survival. (Excuse me trying to add a hint of fun)(ROMANTIC? FUN? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT "SURVIVAL...LIFE OR DEATH, NOT A "ROMANTIC ADVENTURE! CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS NOTHING "ROMANTIC" OR "FUN" ABOUT DEATH, INJURY, OR PAIN? SARGE.)
Yes, I should have used "wild-camping" instead of the emotionally baggaged survival word (which is obviously forbidden for numpties).(HOW WOULD THAT HELP? YOU SAID "SURVIVAL" & THAT'S THE WAY WE TOOK IT. THIS IS, AFTER ALL, A "WILDERNESS "SURVIVAL" SITE", REMEMBER? SARGE.)

But why is it that dblDrew is about the only one on this forum who actually gets to sift through all my romantic bullsh*t ideas(HMMM, IF YOUR "ROMANTIC IDEAS" ARE, AS "YOU" SAY, BULLSH*T, WHY SHOULD WE TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY? SARGE) and filters out the relevant things(THAT WOULD ALSO BE CALLED "HIS OPINION AS TO WHAT'S RELEVANT while the rest just nitpicks on the previously mentioned romantic nonsense?(YOU KEEP TRYING TO RATIONALIZE YOUR "FOOLHARDINESS" WITH THE WORD "ROMANTIC", AS THOUGH THAT SOMEHOW MAKES IT ALL OKAY. AND WHY DO THINK THAT "DD" IS THE ONLY ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS YOU? IS IT BECAUSE HE'S THE ONLY ONE TELLING YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR? SARGE.)

Because instead of trying to find sentences that he can easily flame, (HUH?) he's seeking the information - reading between the lines if you will. (WHY DOES HE HAVE TO "READ BETWEEN THE LINES? WERE YOU HAVING TROUBLE EXPRESSING YOURSELF? SARGE.) - that will help him give good advice.(SO...HE'S THE ONLY ONE, HUH? SARGE)

Please note that there was no flaming/name-calling here, just an honest evaluation of a post. I did this to demonstrate the way I READ & analyze what's posted &, though my replies might not indicate all of this, they most often contain the conclusion I reach. BTW, here is Ralf's little PS from post #11:

[PS: We know following a survival/bushcraft training before our trip is the smart thing to do. However, it's also less exciting to go somewhere when you know it will be a cakewalk once you get there... We believe (/hope) detailed knowledge of all the theory (with some practice @home) should be enough to prepare us for the trip.]

Maybe it's just me, but I see a problem here, does anybody else?

[crashdive123]

Maybe it's just me, but I see a problem here, does anybody else?

Yes I do. It appears that the only "good" answer is the one that agrees with his position. If somebody is looking for opinions, that is what they will get. If they are looking for validation, that may not come quite as easily.

[Sarge47]

Remy has given me permission to restore his posts on this thread. I have done so as I think the real long one is brilliant! I also liked a line he used elsewhere when he wrote: "The wilderness is not a supermarket." Or something to that affect. Right on!

[dbldrew]

Dbldrew - if it's an open question for all - you have everything with you (in my book, 30 yards is with you) if you need it. I do not believe that is/was the case with the original poster of this thread. I know he said he heard what everybody was saying, but there was no evidence of a plan to do any of that (failure of mission and all).

Yes please it’s open for all to comment, if it was just for Sarge I would of used the pm. This hypothetical scenario is not really about the OP, it’s just a general primitive camping scenario. But we can make similarities I suppose. But to address your comment that I had everything needed and he didn’t. We don’t really know, he did say he was going to keep the extras in the car then changed it to keeping it close. Now what does close mean? I don’t know, it could have been in his tent (acceptable), 30 yards (acceptable) or 2 miles away (not so good). The only reason I posted this scenario is just to try to find where people stand, not really to argue the OP point.

[klkak]

PS: We know following a survival/bushcraft training before our trip is the smart thing to do. However, it's also less exciting to go somewhere when you know it will be a cakewalk once you get there... We believe (/hope) detailed knowledge of all the theory (with some practice @home) should be enough to prepare us for the trip.]

Maybe it's just me, but I see a problem here, does anybody else?

I like these two definitions of the word "theory".

the·o·ry (thē'ə-rē, thîr'ē) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. the·o·ries

1. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture

2. A doctrine, or scheme of things, which terminates in speculation or contemplation, without a view to practice; hypothesis; speculation.

[Sarge47]

Yes please it’s open for all to comment, if it was just for Sarge I would of used the pm. This hypothetical scenario is not really about the OP, it’s just a general primitive camping scenario. But we can make similarities I suppose. But to address your comment that I had everything needed and he didn’t. We don’t really know, he did say he was going to keep the extras in the car then changed it to keeping it close. Now what does close mean? I don’t know, it could have been in his tent (acceptable), 30 yards (acceptable) or 2 miles away (not so good). The only reason I posted this scenario is just to try to find where people stand, not really to argue the OP point.

I know that you mean well, I really do. The problem I have with Ralf is that he openly admits here that he views "survival" as "romantic", & "fun". He also isn't telling everything, as you just pointed out. I think your scenario is perfectly fine as it keeps safety at the fore-front. Survival in the woods is basically your knowledge & experienced gained while in the outdoors, used to save your life. read his PS again & you'll see a problem; he's already sure HE knows what they need to know, & what they don't. Yet he admits early on to not knowing much. I would rather he get angry at me and even leave, if that's his answer, than for me to encourage him in what I consider a most foolhardy endeavor.

A further note on your backpacking question: Awhile back I was PM'd by one of our younger members who is going backpacking over the Appalachian trail who was already doing his homework & asking me what books he might read to help him better prepare. I knew his experience level and that he would also be with older, more experienced folks as well & didn't have any problem at all to giving him a list of books for him to study.
If I had the health & financial where-withal, I'd be hiking those trails to!

[crashdive123]

Yes please it’s open for all to comment, if it was just for Sarge I would of used the pm. This hypothetical scenario is not really about the OP, it’s just a general primitive camping scenario. But we can make similarities I suppose. But to address your comment that I had everything needed and he didn’t. We don’t really know, he did say he was going to keep the extras in the car then changed it to keeping it close. Now what does close mean? I don’t know, it could have been in his tent (acceptable), 30 yards (acceptable) or 2 miles away (not so good). The only reason I posted this scenario is just to try to find where people stand, not really to argue the OP point.

Then I guess I will stick with what I said in post #14 which reads in part

I'm glad that you've come here to learn and are using other sources to learn. Start out with shorter trips. Bring all of your gear. As your experience level improves you will use less and less of it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a full pack containing everything you need, but not opening it. Keep in mind that survival is not a game. Knowing that you can survive if the need arises can be exilerating though. Good luck. Learn and practice.

If somebody wants to practice a new skill, improve on a rusty one, test themselves, or whatever the case is - until they have experience in that style of hiking, trekking or camping it is prudent to bring items you may need. Think about some of the things that some people carry all of the time - just daily life or wandering in the woods ... first aid kit in the car, spare tire, hand gun, life insurance, spare keys, signal mirror, whistle, life vests on your boat ...... the list goes on and on. We carry these things for the what ifs in life and to give us the confidence that we will be prepared for those what ifs.

[dbldrew]

I know that you mean well, I really do. The problem I have with Ralf is that he openly admits here that he views "survival" as "romantic", & "fun". He also isn't telling everything, as you just pointed out. I think your scenario is perfectly fine as it keeps safety at the fore-front. Survival in the woods is basically your knowledge & experienced gained while in the outdoors, used to save your life. read his PS again & you'll see a problem; he's already sure HE knows what they need to know, & what they don't. Yet he admits early on to not knowing much. I would rather he get angry at me and even leave, if that's his answer, than for me to encourage him in what I consider a most foolhardy endeavor.

A further note on your backpacking question: Awhile back I was PM'd by one of our younger members who is going backpacking over the Appalachian trail who was already doing his homework & asking me what books he might read to help him better prepare. I knew his experience level and that he would also be with older, more experienced folks as well & didn't have any problem at all to giving him a list of books for him to study.
If I had the health & financial where-withal, I'd be hiking those trails to!

Change the word “survival” to “primitive living” and most would as well have the same romantic and fun feelings. I think when most people are talking about “survival” they are really talking about primitive skills, living off the land, being self sufficient, that is a bit romantic. So what.

I understand he doesn’t know much and he probably would of had a very rough time, but as long as he had his supplies to fall back on he would be fine, although probably really sick of eating rice, but again so what if he fails, as long as he has a safety net, he could learn a lot.

About my scenario, that was basically copied from what Adrian and Brad did, with a few small changes, me using bow drill they used flint and steel, me having a friend in a nearby camp they had a cameraman, otherwise it was basically the same. For me it was a fine plan, for them they are idiots. The main difference is I removed the cockiness they had and went with a more humble approach. Just some food for thought for trying to look past the arrogant cocky attitude of posters and seeing what they are really planning to do.


As far as backpacking goes, man I would be out there too if I could, with 2 small children my backpacking days are on hold for a while.

[Ralbert]

Sarge, even though I feel flattered that you felt the need to analyze every single sentence of my previous post and comment in screaming CAPS I hope you don't mind me not doing the same ridiculous thing as just highlighting one of your quotes is enough to see the underlying cause here...
{Edit: dang, dblDrew beat me to it}

Yes, I do have a too romantic idea about survival. (Excuse me trying to add a hint of fun)

(ROMANTIC? FUN? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT "SURVIVAL...LIFE OR DEATH, NOT A "ROMANTIC ADVENTURE! CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS NOTHING "ROMANTIC" OR "FUN" ABOUT DEATH, INJURY, OR PAIN? SARGE.)

Wow, so when you were reading that sentence that was the first thought to pop into your mind? Really?

So obviously so fail to grasp the concept of anything I've said. My bad for using metaphors when you don’t understand them I guess...
Do you really believe that when a newcomer says the word survival he immediately means he wants to put himself in a life or death situation for fun 'n giggles...?
Seriously, how can you be that black and white?

You even contradict yourself or is this forum a hundred percent nothing BUT life and death discussions? Because if it is, pardon me for misunderstanding this forum’s intentions. You see, to me there's a gray area, somewhere between sitting comfortable at home and the aforementioned life and death situations.

Somewhere between those two extremes is my happy place, my Goldielocks porridge. Not to hot, not too cold. I even mentioned some of those variables in my second post (!) because they obviously differ from person to person. Yet you still want to believe that I’m going camping near the gates of hell.

Only life or death discussions, that's your argument? Gimme a break...