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Thread: Lever Gun Advice by Owners for Owners

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    Ultra Mega ********* sgtdraino's Avatar
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    Default Lever Gun Advice by Owners for Owners

    As I mentioned the other day, I just purchased a Puma M92 in .357 Magnum/.38 Special with a 16" barrel and an enlarged lever loop (a la The Rifleman). I got it because I wanted a rifle that shot the same rounds as my revolver, a Ruger GP100.

    This is my first lever gun, so I am anxious to learn all I can about care, use, modification, and reliability. The "manual" that came with the rifle was little more than a pamphlet. It does not show how to break down the rifle, and one guy I talked to suggested that I don't ever try to break down the rifle. Apparently lever guns are a real pain in the *** to take apart and put back together.

    So, any lever gun owners out there? What do you have to say about this class of rifle? Any cool after-market stuff for 'em? I'm thinking about getting the stock shortened a little.
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    Lever guns are both complex in the number of moving parts, and weak in structure hence only low pressure cartridges, with the exception of the BLR, which is stronger. But they are fun and make great carry guns, if your life is not on the line. You can not field strip the leaver gun, as compared to say a Bolt Action like a Winchester M-70 which the bolt can be disassembled in 3 seconds. This is why Professional Hunters and Dangerous Game Guides carry Bolt Action or Double Barrel rifles when afield.

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    sgtdraino,
    I have looked high and low for that for you and can find nothing, the armorer here in our department (I'm a cop) might be able to find something for ya he's gonna check. Like Hopeak said its got a ton of moving parts and most manufactors don't want you to do this. But I'm still looking.
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    Senior Member Ole WV Coot's Avatar
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    I have stripped a Marlin Mod. 336C in 30-30. Would I do it again, NO WAY. I had a book around here somewhere with exploded views for ordering parts but that particular firearm wouldn't be in it. Personal preference only is Break Free. I like the dry lube myself and dust doesn't stick as bad. I do own one Marlin and never gave stripping a thought.
    Last edited by Ole WV Coot; 08-14-2008 at 10:35 AM.
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    sgtdraino,

    There are three places for info on lever action rifles that I have in my reference library. But only two of them are specific to the Rossi Puma.

    Those two are Numrich Gun Parts : http://www.e-gunparts.com/products.a...z92%20PUMA&MC=

    Which will give you only the exploded diagram of the Rossi Puma, but you have to pay for it. However, their catalog is a good reference manual because it shows an exploded diagram of almost every firearm made. It includes a 'cross reference' list.

    The OTHER one is the NRA Firearms Assembly book for Rifles and Shotguns. If you are an NRA member you can probably purchase one. I think I paid about $25 for mine ten or eleven years ago.

    Having said all that, I've scanned in those particular two pages for you. But the size is 1.88 MB, which means I can't post it. Drop me an email and I'll gladly send it to you no charge.

    hopeak,
    No offense, but the "weak in structure hence only low pressure cartridges" is incorrect. Lever action rifles have been made for cartridges from the lowly .22 to the mighty .45/70 and LOADS of cartridges in between.

    Most lever action rifles fell 'out of favor' from the publics eye when semi-automatic rifles hit the scene. Having said that, there are LOTS of lever action rifles still being made.

    Here is but one company that makes some really nice ones. Most are used by 'Cowboy Action Shooters'. Just click on 'Repeating Rifles' button on the left. http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/

    Oh, the third reference manual is "The Gun Digest Book of Firearms Assembly/Disassembly - Part IV: Centerfire Rifles - Revised Edition".

    With the correct information/reference material, disassembly of any firearm (yes even lever actions) is pretty straight forward.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by wallew; 08-16-2008 at 06:59 PM.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Why not resize the pages so it will post or post it to something like photobucket?
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    Wallew, No offense taken BECAUSE you do NOT know what LOW pressure MEANS. Low pressure does not mean low energy. You do not have a depth of knowledge on this subject. If you want to challenge me, know what your talking about. "How you like them apples"..?


    And just for the record: The "Mighty" 45/70 Is a classic example of a "LOW" pressure cartridge.
    Last edited by Sourdough; 08-17-2008 at 12:03 PM.

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    Wallew, pressure is measured in Copper units.......NOT Foot Pounds.....
    Last edited by Sourdough; 08-17-2008 at 11:32 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Actually they can be measured in both. In truth it's not 'copper units' but CUP, but now you are getting into the nuts and bolts of being a gunsmith or a reloader. I am a degreed gunsmith and have been reloading for years. My 'knowledge' is very large. I have been a member of the gun culture for forty years, how about you? If your knowledge is so great, why is it that I'm the only person to come up with the info that sgtdraino asked for, hmm?

    This unit is used in reloading ammunition for hobby shooters it is called CUP and stands for Copper Units of Pressure. A small cylinder of copper is placed between a piston and an anvil. When a test shot is fired from a control chamber with the piston in direct contact with the test shot system pressure it crushes this copper cylinder. That is then measured, length wise, and a chart tells the cup used to determine the safety or useabillity of that load. New systems use piezoeletric pressure transducers to convert to good old fashon PSI. Is there a conversion for CUP to PSI? Because psi is used to tell steel strength and other points of stress or componant failure it means more to me than the older system. On the other hand cup is used in many reloading manuals for powders that are still in use today but go back almost 100 year. The link is below:

    http://www.convert-me.com/en/bb/view...ghlight=copper

    That was not the issue here. Your statement was lever action rifles couldn't handle high pressure cartridges, except those made by Browning.

    THIS IS PATENTLY FALSE.

    The only thing I was trying to do was correct the impression you put out there that lever action rifles cannot handle high pressure cartridges except those made by Browning.

    Again, Winchester has been making lever action rifles that handle massive pressure over 100 years ago. Here's a link to their page on the history of the last Winchester lever action rifles made. Go look at the Model 94 Timber. It's made in the 450 Marlin. Which is definitely not a low pressure round.

    http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodin...y.asp?cat=003C

    Here's a link to Guns America, specifically Winchester Model 94's for sale. If you scroll down the first page there are model 94's in both .22 and 44-40, which covers a pretty large range of cartridges.

    http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Ca...r/Model-94.htm

    When you make such patently false statements, someone will always call you on it. Step up to the plate, admit your mistake and move on. Stop trying to deflect the issue away from the fact that you made a false statement.

    Do we next need to cover the Rockwell scale as well? I've got that info at hand if you need it.

    Rick, if I did shrink it down so it would fit, sgtdraino would be unable to read it. It's only two pages and the print is really small. But, because you asked, here it is.

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    Last edited by wallew; 08-17-2008 at 04:32 PM.

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    Sorry don't need any of your information, The more you post the more YOU make my point for me. I have only been reloading for 51 years, I have only built nineteen .458 Winchester Magnums. Served a four year apprenticeship, and am a Journeyman Machinist. Spent 34 years as a professional hunter.

    And you still do not know pressure from energy. How you like them apples.

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    I don't know pressure from shinola. My knowledge is very small. I've never rebuilt anything I couldn't afford to have rebuilt for me. But I do know this. This thread is going no where fast. I also know the first liar never stands a chance so put it to bed. Okay? Go wash your hands and get ready for dinner.
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    O.k.dokie.............But, it is only lunch time here.....? And just that quick I've been moved from A Distinguished road, to lier's boulevard. O'well one day chicken next day feathers..... Yummy, I like these APPLES.
    Last edited by Sourdough; 08-17-2008 at 07:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rebel View Post
    I don't know about a puma but, my Marlin 1895 breaks down real easy. Just lever the bolt back and take out the lever screw. Then it all falls apart for cleaning.
    I'm pretty good at taking stuff apart......it's the putting back together that sometimes gives me trouble.
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    Man, me too. AND..... I always seem to put it back together with fewer parts than the factory did.
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    I have an old .32 winchester special lever action I use for a swamp gun deer hunting. Its very reliable but it will jam if you baby it. You gotta rack that gun like a man. LOL

    I don't see a need to take it apart because I can lubricate all the moving parts without doing so.

    its very similiar to a 30/30 only slightly higher caliber, less velocity and more of a punch. I love that gun and have killed many a deer with it. Drops them right in their tracks 75% of the time.
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    Ultra Mega ********* sgtdraino's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the information guys, I appreciate it. Still haven't had opportunity to fire my rifle yet, too low on fundage. Hopefully next month!

    As I said, I got the rifle because I wanted a carbine that would fire .357, and it seemed like lever action rifles are the only kind in existence that do.

    I'm curious, is that true? If so, it seems to me like this is a niche just waiting to be filled. Something a bit more reliable, fewer moving parts, easier to take down and put together, and without the worry of the tubular magazine limiting the kind of bullets you can load into it.

    Are lever actions really the only .357 carbines out there?
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    Ultra Mega ********* sgtdraino's Avatar
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    What sorts of accessories do you guys recommend for your lever actions? Slings? Scabbards? Aftermarket stocks? Scopes?

    How about modifications?

    Has anyone done "The Rifleman" screw trick?

    What is your prefered carry method? I think ultimately I would like to attach a scabbard to the side of my pack.
    "How do you know that my dimwitted inexperience isn't merely a subtle form of manipulation used to lower people's expectations thereby enhancing my ability to effectively maneuver within any given situation?" -Deputy Dewey Riley, Scream 2

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    Default Perhaps this manual is better than what you have?

    You have a Rossi Puma 92, if that helps look up more info. This site has manuals for about any gun commonly owned, including the Rossi Puma 92.

    http://www.stevespages.com/page7b.htm

    I have a Westerfield M72 .30.30 (Mossberg), and it is a P.I.T.A to take down. Most lever guns are unless you are used to it. Pay attention though, and it is not brain surgery. You can take that thing down to 30 seperate parts and if you were careful about what you put where and have the right manual it's fairly easy to put back together. The P.I.T.A part is organizing and being careful about what you put where.
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    Live bait. sobeit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtdraino View Post
    Thanks for all the information guys, I appreciate it. Still haven't had opportunity to fire my rifle yet, too low on fundage. Hopefully next month!

    As I said, I got the rifle because I wanted a carbine that would fire .357, and it seemed like lever action rifles are the only kind in existence that do.

    I'm curious, is that true? If so, it seems to me like this is a niche just waiting to be filled. Something a bit more reliable, fewer moving parts, easier to take down and put together, and without the worry of the tubular magazine limiting the kind of bullets you can load into it.

    Are lever actions really the only .357 carbines out there?
    Thomson center makes a encore barreal in 357 i thank

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    Ultra Mega ********* sgtdraino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sobeit View Post
    Thomson center makes a encore barreal in 357 i thank
    What is Thomson center, and what is an "encore barreal?"

    EDIT: Aaaah, the Contender, gotcha. Still, I was hoping for something with an ammo capacity beyond 1.
    Last edited by sgtdraino; 08-24-2008 at 10:28 PM.
    "How do you know that my dimwitted inexperience isn't merely a subtle form of manipulation used to lower people's expectations thereby enhancing my ability to effectively maneuver within any given situation?" -Deputy Dewey Riley, Scream 2

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