Am I the only one seeing the governments position? The more wolves we have, the harder they can blow. The harder they can blow, then less piggies will have a home. With less homes for the piggies, we just may have a bacon scarcity!
Am I the only one seeing the governments position? The more wolves we have, the harder they can blow. The harder they can blow, then less piggies will have a home. With less homes for the piggies, we just may have a bacon scarcity!
What's so crazy about standing toe-to-toe saying I am?
~Rocky Balboa
So that's what has caused the housing crunch.
I live smack dab in the middle of the area that all this is taking place in, and I remember when they were brought down from Alberta and released. My property borders National Forest that connects directly to Yellowstone and we are about 24 miles of continuous wilderness, North of the park boundry. My dogs and the wolves regularly howl back and forth at one another, and I see wolves on a fairly regular basis. My neighbors have had calves killed by them, and I have seen a couple of wolves take down a cow elk first hand.
My feelings on this are there are just too many damned people! We (I) am encroaching on wolves, grizzlies, elk, buffalo, etc...So, I think we should realize we are emposing on the wildlife, not the wildlife emposing on us and adjust our lifestyle to fit in- not try to limit the wolves and bears. Cattle can be raised other places, so can sheep. But, wolves need Wilderness and there ain't much left! I think defense of Wolves and Wilderness is imperative.
The way of the canoe is the way of the wilderness and of a freedom almost forgotten- Sigurd Olson
Give me winter, give me dogs... you can keep the rest- Knud Rasmussen
Well said Jason. People forget humans killed the wolves on to the protected list. That changed the natural order of things. Seems like we did the same to the Native Americans when we wanted their wilderness too.
"A person is not finished when they are defeated.
A person is finished when they quit."
Jason Montana, That is well said, and I agree 100%
Well said Jason. There just seems to be something inherently wrong with killing anything just to “manage” the population. Man has tried it with other men and eventually there was an outcry, albeit late. Hopefully there will be here as well.
we have a healthy population of wolves here on the north shore estimated at about 3000 which we need because we have about 30,000 deer and the idiots that go hunting can't manage the deer most won't go in past a couple of miles most drink and party the whole time and most can't shoot a barn 200 feet in front of them, i say bring back open season on tourists live and let live(or die) is the way it should be why is it a couple of guys get a degree (from idiots to start with) now they think they know whats best for everyone, i say they all go get jobs like us "normal" people here and just leave it all to nature.
always be prepared-prepare all ways
http://wareaglesurvival.blogspot.com
i think if they migrated back in on their own fine. Reintroducing them ,imo, isnt the brightest thing to do.
i wont be able to try and catch one like i was hoping come October when i go out there to trap.
I'm sweet as sugar but tough as nails.
Introducing no, reintroducing, to me is a differant thing. We (humans) killed them off, so what is wrong with trying to put this right?
Though we used to shoot timber wolves in Minnesota when I was a kid, I kind of like having them around. There was always a lot of griping that they were killing off the deer herd. We now have more wolves than we've ever had - and more deer than there've ever been - even before white contact.
I like hearing them howl. There are only about three thousand wolves in 485 packs here, most of them right in my neck of the woods, and that's not too many. Reminds me I live somewhere semi-wild.
Raised By Bears
Bear Clan
Somewhere a pack of wolves is laying by a stream.
"Dog! Have you ever seen so many people."
"Not since I was a pup. Why, I remember..."
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
It's a fine day when I find a wolf in one of my traps Of course that didn't happen last year There is always this coming winter to look forward to.
1. If it's in your kit and you don't know how to use it....It's useless.
2. If you can't reach your kit when you need it....Its useless.
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Tell them Kevin sent you!!
Good Luck on that. I dont have a death wish for all wolves but id love to catch one, if only to say i did it.
I'm sweet as sugar but tough as nails.
Wolves only live about 7 years in the wild. Think about it, there isn't a wolf alive today that was born before the year 2000. In many places where wolves live you might very well be the first human they have come across.
I'm going to take the minority opinion here. Personally I don't have a problem with hunting canines (including wolves) to control the population in areas where their population is growing. Their natural cycle is to grow to the point that they seriously affect the numbers of caribou and moose and then they begin to starve as heard levels drop. As the wolf population drops off the herds recover and the cycle continues.
Once cattle and sheep are introduced to an area you have a whole new prey species thrown into the mix. In the past the attitude of ranchers was to just shoot off the entire population of wolves and and proceed to raise livestock. I see very few people advocating that these days.
I would like to see the same people who advocate wolf reintroduction also pony up some cash to compensate ranchers for lost livestock. That would take some of the pressure off the wolves as the ranchers wouldn't be incurring a financial loss personally for the reintroduction. Just telling them to go out of business and stop ranching land they've been working for generations isn't viable. Essentaillly we're telling them we are going to allow vegans to shoot their cattle without compenstaion. I doubt anyone here would allow a rancher to raid their paycheck, but we tell them we are going to allow unrestricted hunting of their livestock and they have to bear the cost.
Human agriculture upsets the balance of nature like little else.
In Alaska many people live a subsistence lifestyle and excess wolf populations directly compete with that. Keeping predator/prey populations stable is a good thing.
We had a similar situation in PA with red fox and phesants. You can't stock hunting land with phesants and not control the fox and coyote population or you just stock feed for an ever expanding population of wild canines. Mac (donning nomex and kevlar)
The Colhane Channel TV for guys like me.
I've always liked wolves, don't think I'd ever kill one unless it needed it. The reintro. sounded like a good idea, but you always have to look ahead. I do believe that if a reintro. species kills off livestock and a persons personal critter, they should be reinbursed for the kill. If not, then the ranchers have the right to just kill them, don't mess with a man's livlyhood.
As far as hunting, if the pop. and local laws allow it, so be it.
I don't hunt squirrels, because I don't like the meat. I don't hunt coyotes, because I don't eat them or sell the hides, this goes for many critters. It's just my way, but that is just it.
It's my way, not yours.
IMO the one and only animal on this planet that needs to be managed is us humans. Nature holds itself in balance and we are too ignorant and limited in our understanding to do anything management-wise that benefits an ecosystem. Other than removing human infrastucture and a few billion peole, I mean.
Actions speak louder than words
As Pict points out wolves only live about 5-7 years in the wild. There is a wolf on my property I see 4-5 times a year. I have gotten as close as 15 yards from him and each year a bit closer. I've spotted this lone wolf year after year for going on 12 years.
It will be a sad day when I fail to spot him next year.
i agree.
have you ever seen firsthand how mother nature deals with species over populations? mother nature is far more harsher when it comes to population control of animals than humans could ever be.
have you ever seen a coon with dstemper or a coyote with mange.I have and it aint pretty.
a bullet is a lot less cruel than the suffering involved with either disease,imo.
I'm sweet as sugar but tough as nails.
Ranchers do receive compensation for a lost animal. It's a tax deduction. I'm not advocating the loss of a herd and a farmer certainly has the right to protect his/her property but the loss of an animal through any means is a deductible operational expense. And since many farmers are corporations today that means a business deduction.
Deer populations have exploded in Indiana because there are no natural predators (cars aren't natural or at least weren't) other than coyote. A few years ago the DNR allowed deer kills in a couple of the state parks because over population meant over grazing and starvation/disease for the deer.
I believe in the natural cycle but with our intervention, intended or not, the natural cycle has been inexorably altered.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
Hasn't anyone read about Ted Turner's plans for the midwest U.S.? LINK. I believe he is now the largest private land owner in the world (surpassing the Catholic church) in terms of total acreage.
As far as reintroductions go, I am a firm believer in them. They can work. I recently encountered a transplanted panther in the Everglades, just magnificent. I met some officials later who told me it was probably a female with two cubs that was known to frequent the area where I was poking around. They asked me for the data from my GPS and her rough bearing for help tracking her and the cubs progress.
Last edited by Fargus; 08-11-2008 at 01:30 AM.
"Squirrels are just rats with better PR." -- Anonymous
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