an absolute must read

**trax** · 08-08-2007, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sarge47

Finally the big question; how do you get a bunch of independent thinkers to operate as a team?

Awareness that the common good is the best way to reach the common goal

**Sarge47** · 08-08-2007, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by trax

Awareness that the common good is the best way to reach the common goal

That sounds good in theory, but I guarantee you, in actual practice all knids of things rise up!

**trax** · 08-08-2007, 12:55 PM

Oh I know, but the reality is, there's never a perfect sytem.

**wareagle69** · 08-08-2007, 01:09 PM

my place would be open i can cook and have medical training, but mostly i have been good at security, although most ppl who know me say i am a nice guy, most ppl who look at me get another impression 6' 4'' 220lbs lots of ink and well sculpted muscles and carry myself in a manner that ppl respect and have fought professional level in the mixed martial arts. since i was a kid ppl especialy women have always said that they feel safe and protected around me.

**Sarge47** · 08-08-2007, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by wareagle69

my place would be open i can cook and have medical training, but mostly i have been good at security, although most ppl who know me say i am a nice guy, most ppl who look at me get another impression 6' 4'' 220lbs lots of ink and well sculpted muscles and carry myself in a manner that ppl respect and have fought professional level in the mixed martial arts. since i was a kid ppl especialy women have always said that they feel safe and protected around me.

Great! You're our enforcer! Sound silly? Let's look at a possibility that could arise. Suppose the only knife in the group was that $1000 Strider that we all know is owned by an actual participant here. Our leader, who is not the owner, decides that this knife needs to be placed in the hands of someone else. Remember, in a "group survival scenario" everything becomes community property. Of course the owner of the knife doesn't wish to comply, after all, he's paid out mucho bucks for his custom-made blade. Security has the unpopular job of enforcing the leader's, as well as the groups final decisions. Comments?

Also you can spend your nights cuddling with Trax, he says he's "really good at it". ;>)

**wareagle69** · 08-08-2007, 01:45 PM

yeah i have heard that rummor somewhere

**wareagle69** · 08-08-2007, 01:51 PM

btw sarge i looked up the members records you have 394 posts followed by trax at 204 then owl girl at 193 then me at 137 er now 138

**wareagle69** · 08-08-2007, 02:08 PM

i'll agree with that, i would not want to be in a situation where i need to enforce the rules(been there)rather helping to protect my pack. just naturally good at that

**Sarge47** · 08-08-2007, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by volwest

That wouldn't be a good leader then...
If a "leader" needs an enforcer, he is just wrong for the job.

Any "group survival situation" is really a small, temporary society. There are rules that will be unpopular with some people, it's inevitable. Those rules will have to be upheld, however, even with the threat of force if nessasary. Law Enforcement is also a nessasary evil in any society today. Not everyone is going to be as civilized as you,VW. As the saying goes: "Man is not a rational animal, but a rationalizing one." Also, maybe the leader selection isn't that great. We would all have to make do as best we can. I remember watching "part II" of Discovery's "USMC Survival School where the Marines had to remove one leader and replace him with another. It's an imperfect world with us in it after all. Just me tuo pence..

**owl_girl** · 08-08-2007, 02:14 PM

Volwest that last thing you said I agree with but I’m confused with that other post.
First off the cuddle thing was a joke so lighten up. And why would trax not be a hunter? If he wants to hunt let him hunt. And me I’ve always been interested in medicine and I take care of my family when there sick so why wouldn’t I help with medicine?

**trax** · 08-08-2007, 02:14 PM

Waiting for volwest to make a decision or get to a point....why do you not see us in the areas we mentioned there sportsfan? I'm 49 years old and started learning to hunt when I was six. I raised a family of four kids on wild meat. So your assumption is based on what?

I guess I should have typed in "perfect political system". I guess in the situation as it was described you can just set back and be our thinker, while everyone else is getting things done.

**owl_girl** · 08-08-2007, 02:24 PM

Sarge Im not agents having a good leader but corruption finds its way even into small groups and that kind of power would scare me.

**owl_girl** · 08-08-2007, 02:28 PM

volwest you seam to talk more about the questions then answer them. You’ve already asked another question and you haven’t answered any.

**owl_girl** · 08-08-2007, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by volwest

Sorry Owl... you are right...i haven't answered the question at hand...

My place would be, the enemy's worst nightmare. I am a warrior. I don't cook, i don't heal, i don't make camps, or take care of others in any way shape or form, i do not want to be your dad, brother, leader or friend, i do not dwell on your herd mentality, i am a loner, i understand Man and use this understanding to destroy him while he is looking at his belly button, wondering about who is going to tell him what to do, and how to wipe his *** in the morning dew. I am not here to make you feel better about things, i am not your shrink, or your solution, i am not your hope nor your saviour, my best friend is the one that i do not see, that does not make noise about how he feels or what he has done in the past. My best friend is not below me or above me. War is my home. I am not here to comfort you, judge you or help you, i am not here to tell you what you should be or who you should be, but i will tell you when you lie to yourself, and therefore become vulnerable to the roar of the forest. I do not choose my enemy, the enemy chooses me.

Does that answer your question ?

Yes actually that was my favorite post you’ve ever made, at least that made some sense.

**wareagle69** · 08-08-2007, 03:28 PM

amen to that owl girl.

volwest has finally shown us how he can contribute to our society.

**trax** · 08-08-2007, 04:28 PM

What you going to do? Bore them to death? My turn....I don't think so.

**Sarge47** · 08-08-2007, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by volwest

Who said i was "civilized" ?
That is probably the biggest insult i have ever heard...lolll

Well...If you go by the marines...then we are in deep **** aren't we...but i can see why you would think that way. I mean, weren't you the one making fun of some CO's you had ?

but let me ask you...what is a leader ?

Ahh yes, the $64,000 question. The qualities that define a "good" leader are many. They earn, and hopefully justify the trust placed in them by the group. The "common" good, as was referred to earlier is, in my opinion, whatever is needed for the group to survive over that of the individual. Or, as Mr. Spock from "Star Trek" has so elequently put it: "The needs of the many outwiegh the needs of the few, or even the one." A good leader makes good decisions quickly. There is an alternative, and that is the leadership council, but they would all have to be on the same page. And finally, VW, no, that wasn't me talking about CO's, I was never in the military. I'll let others wiegh in with thier view of leadership qualities.

**owl_girl** · 08-08-2007, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by volwest

Oh i am sorry am i boring you ?
Am i not contributing ?

Or is it that you just don't understand where i come from because you're lazy or just too simple to grasp common knowledge and basic human nature ?

I think you're just dense mother ****ers...and still want to play the game of who's got the biggest shoe size. In the end, you're more into making bad jokes or bullying teenagers about their knives, than trying to understand how things work. You concentrate on your strengths, when you should be wondering about your weaknesses...and if by chance you do get an opportunity to do so, you make more jokes.

You have the mental discipline of a 15 year old...and you react like any other primate in this world...

It's funny you used that joke trax...I almost put it in myself, but then i knew one of you monkeys would do it for me.

Can you dig that humor ?
Sarge is right, many things happen in a group, this is what i demonstrate here, and i am sorry if you fell for it. And i didn't even ask you to give me your expensive knife...i just said i didn't think hunting would be best for you...or medicine for Owl...the result is you lashing out and defending yourself...like you were suddenly threatened by silly little words on a forum.

Can you imagine in a survival situation ?
As long as you hang on to all this **** about who you think you are, groups will collapse.

Lashing out? I simply stated why I came to my conclusion and asked how you came to yours, I didn’t call you names or anything. For me disagreeing is not the same as lashing out. I was wondering more about the fact that you keep asking questions but rarely answer them. I didn’t mean to make you feel lashed out at.

**owl_girl** · 08-08-2007, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Sarge47

Ahh yes, the $64,000 question. The qualities that define a "good" leader are many. They earn, and hopefully justify the trust placed in them by the group. The "common" good, as was referred to earlier is, in my opinion, whatever is needed for the group to survive over that of the individual. Or, as Mr. Spock from "Star Trek" has so elequently put it: "The needs of the many outwiegh the needs of the few, or even the one." A good leader makes good decisions quickly. There is an alternative, and that is the leadership council, but they would all have to be on the same page. And finally, VW, no, that wasn't me talking about CO's, I was never in the military. I'll let others wiegh in with thier view of leadership qualities.

If I choose to fallow a leader that person would be calm, logical, and compassionate. But now I have a question, if the man you wanted the knife from decided he didn’t want to be in the group and he started walking away would you chase him down and take it even though he’s not part of your group?

**Sarge47** · 08-08-2007, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by volwest

Ok "lashing out" was wrong...lol, but i was thinking about our canadians here...not really you.

Interesting that you do not consider questions as viable answers though. And saying i do not answer is strange...maybe you just do not see the answers in my posts ?
Can we really talk about group dynamics without asking ourselves what those dynamics are ?
You see to me those questions are answers in themselves.

VW, you seem to me to be a "deep thinker." I also find that you are a very intelligent individual and that while you would probably not make a good leader, you could probably be accurate in picking one out. The problem here is that your drinking from the deep well while most of us are drinking from the shallow stream. (Yes, I like my metaphors.) I often find that concepts crouched in simple terms are oft-times the most profound. Communication, complete communication, is what's really needed. It really cracks me up when you go on & on then come out with a simple statement to sum it all up!