"The heart Ramone, don't forget, always aim for the heart"
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"The heart Ramone, don't forget, always aim for the heart"
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Last edited by klkak; 11-22-2008 at 11:15 PM.
1. If it's in your kit and you don't know how to use it....It's useless.
2. If you can't reach your kit when you need it....Its useless.
Alaska Backcountry Adventure Tours
www.youralaskavacation.com
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That's what I'm talkin about.
Thanks klkak.
The Earth does not belong to us, we belong to the Earth. What befalls the Earth, befalls the sons of the Earth.
Chief Seattle
Bear Clan
Rick,
Agreed ... however, it is well documented that Native Americans possessed Boarding Axes through trade ... they imbued them with the same power and status as they did their own stone made tools. My point is merely that Tomahwak is but an Native term for something that just about every culture in the world already possessed in one form or another for thousands of years ... sailors in ancient times did indeed use stone tools by the way but by the 17th Century they had the metallurgy thing worked out.
At the end of the day ... it's a point of order ... the word Tomahawk may well be native to North America but the implement of axe/hatchet is not. As soon as Europeans arrived with better tools and weapons the Natives took them up through trade - they still called a steel headed Boarding Axe a Tomahawk ... it wasn't the material it was made from that was key but rather the implement itself. Do a search of images on Tomahawk and see how many stone versions crop up ... not many. By the time of the Indian Wars the Natives were adopting European Boarding Axe technology ... ie steel, for obvious reasons.
Lets take a trip down memory lane ... here's a forged Celtic Axe circa 100AD.
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Here's an Iroquois Tomahawk circa Indian Wars ...
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And an Arapaho one ...
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And again the French Naval Boarding Axe ...
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Here are two British boarding axes circa 18th Century ...
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I'm beginning to see a pattern here ...
As the saying goes ... there's nothing new under the sun; names for the same things in different cultural tongues have been confusing the issue since the fall of Babel. Might we say that a Tomahawk is but a variation on a long running theme?
Cheers, TR.
Last edited by Tikirocker; 11-23-2008 at 02:03 AM.
I'm surprised that with everyone talking about European axes/hatchets nobody as mentioned the Francisa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisca
With it (and there other "basic" weapons) the Franks were nearly unstoppable.
Back to the survival issue. I would prefer a good hawk/hatchet for my AO. If I am able to I would choose both but that wasn't an option. They both have their pros and cons for ever situation. But for what is most likely to happen to me here or be needed to be done here, the hawk is more useful.
Honesta Mors Turpi Vita Potior
Facta non verba
Lethality of the 22LR - Actual test
Honor dies where interest lies
One thing, the metal hatchets, knives, muskets, copper/cast iron pots made life so much easier for us and all we had to do is trade of those dang beaver plews.
I like Hawks because I think they are cool and make excellent edged weapons . I like machetes because my uncle gave me one when I was 8 and they are very efficient cutting tools. For camp use I would prefer a forest Axe 18" handle with a pronounced poll.
KNOWLEDGE the ulitmate survival tool
I AM HURT BUT NOT SLAIN, I WILL LIE DOWN AND BLEED A WHILE THEN I WILL RISE UP AND FIGHT AGAIN.
Here's a camp ax with a lifetime warranty for $10.00
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...6257_200316257
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
I have 2 Wetterlings wildlife axe's. They are nice tools.
1. If it's in your kit and you don't know how to use it....It's useless.
2. If you can't reach your kit when you need it....Its useless.
Alaska Backcountry Adventure Tours
www.youralaskavacation.com
Tell them Kevin sent you!!
Snow & Nealy have some quality axes . I have a couple Gransfor Bruks that are nice but I can't really say that they are the much higher price makes them that much better than whiter ling.
In the photo is first a Gransfor Bruks Hunters axe and below that is a similar axe by Whirtling and last is a repro British beltAxe that is IMHO a good combo of Hawk /hatchet/axe.
The 2 hunter axes were designed to skin, dress and butcher large animals like moose/Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
Last edited by HOP; 11-24-2008 at 07:26 PM.
KNOWLEDGE the ulitmate survival tool
I AM HURT BUT NOT SLAIN, I WILL LIE DOWN AND BLEED A WHILE THEN I WILL RISE UP AND FIGHT AGAIN.
Northern Tool makes good tools. I've ordered from them several times in the past and have never been disappointed. Besides, with a lifetime warranty, you're pretty much covered. I don't own their camp ax so I can't say how well it keeps an edge but the reviews on that site indicate it is good quality.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
For what it's worth, here in Pennsylvania, summer or winter I have never felt the lack of a hatchet when carrying my 12 inch Ontario machete. I tend to do the same things in the same way as I do in Brazil, only much less. I may be stuck in the mud on this issue but I carry a machete because the bulk of my wilderness cutting has been done with one and that is what I am used to, old habits die hard.
When considering what our ancestors used I think it is fair to assume that ships had both axes and cutlasses on board and that ship crews on land in the early days took them both ashore. Given climate and vegitation type it is no surprise that the axe/hatchet/hawk is the more useful tool in North America and the cutlass/machete is better in the tropics.
In this debate the one task that I can think of directly related to survival that clearly favors the axe is in cutting the massive amounts of firewood necessary to survive in cold climates. This simply is not something we have to do in the tropics. The coldest weather we get in Brazil, low fifties, is low enough to get you hypothermic given the tropical weight insulation typically carried there. A decent fire that will last the night through, capable of driving away a fifty degree chill is far smaller than what is necessary to sustain life in a northern forest on a "Brass Monkey Fahrenheit" night.
Generating that kind of a woodpile means taking down 4-8 inch diameter dead trees and bucking them up into firewood, axe down, saw to length, split with axe. You are not going to do that with a machete. In Brazil such a survival type fire entails collecting about four large armloads of deadwood and usually won't involve tools at all. There an axe is dead weight unless you go out planning to fell trees. In the northern forest the ability to fell dead trees is directly related to surviving night temps so carry an axe. Mac
Edited to add: On my Alaska hunt (15-20 degrees F) we carried a chainsaw in the truck and I carried a full sized axe on the ATV for just this reason. I did not carry a machete there.
Last edited by Pict; 11-24-2008 at 11:06 AM.
The Colhane Channel TV for guys like me.
You bring up some very good points Mac. Out at the trap line camp we have a chain saw, full sized axe, 8lb splitting maul and a hatchet. Not a single machete. However when I was in Central and South America I carried an 18 inch machete.
This past summer while guiding a tour I found a short stainless steel heavy bladed machete laying in the trail. It's made by MeyersCo. I brought it home and sharpened it up. It comes pretty close to bridging the gap between the hatchet and the machete.
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The Meyerco Axe & Machete Combo features a machete with a 420 stainless steel blade
Rubber over mold handle.
Comes complete with a nylon sheath.
Blade length is 12 5/8"
Overall length is 18 1/2"
Blade 1/4" thick
Blade 2 inch wide
Last edited by klkak; 11-24-2008 at 04:54 PM.
1. If it's in your kit and you don't know how to use it....It's useless.
2. If you can't reach your kit when you need it....Its useless.
Alaska Backcountry Adventure Tours
www.youralaskavacation.com
Tell them Kevin sent you!!
1. If it's in your kit and you don't know how to use it....It's useless.
2. If you can't reach your kit when you need it....Its useless.
Alaska Backcountry Adventure Tours
www.youralaskavacation.com
Tell them Kevin sent you!!
I think I'd prefer to carry both and use as the need arises.
You guys finally wore me down and I bought an Eastwing camp axe today. We'll see if I like it better than my Kurki.
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Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
Did you get it at Home Depot?
Isn't it called Estwing?
"A person is not finished when they are defeated.
A person is finished when they quit."
Pict, where con I see a pic of that machete by Ontario?
I bought it at Ace Hardware and yes it is an Estwing. Picky, picky, picky!
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
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