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Thread: So, how ‘bout that carona virus?

  1. #41
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    I completely agree, Rebel.

    Cliff, you're right, it is more contagious. So is the flu. So is a cold.

    Many people believe that one of the main reasons that Christianity spread so fast in the later Roman Empire was the plague. Whereas most people baricaded themselves in their homes to avoid a contagion they couldn't avoid, the Christians went to their sick neighbors and helped them despite the risks. The effect was double - since people were more likely to survive with care, more of the sick neighbors survived, and were converted because people were so impressed by the heroic efforts of the Christians. And, of course, the Christians were caring for each other, too.
    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.


  2. #42

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    Another big problem is the apparent percentage of patients needing hospitalization. Supposedly much higher than with flu and much higher in the 30s and 40s age groups. These are the folks that usually just stay at home if they get sick and come out fine. So there is concern that hospitals could be overwhelmed.


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  3. #43
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.

  4. #44
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    The "news" about this virus is hype. Look at responsible sources...I would consider John Hopkins and Mayo responsible. And keep in mind what's going on in the world. Neither of the only-two-parties-that-matter (sarcasm here) are getting what they want in the popular polls. They will, predictably, be looking for a common-enemy distraction to get voters' minds off the elections. The reason I'm reading this forum instead of other "survival" forums is that it's a level-headed group. I really appreciate that. Level-headedness is a primary survival trait!
    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfVanZandt View Post
    I mean that’s a little misleading. Of course it hasn’t killed many people in the US. It’s barely gotten here and it’s been contained thus far.

    This “it’s just the flu!” Stuff really doesn’t jibe with what’s going on in China.


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  6. #46
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    I'm not ever going to put China on par with the US.

    Mueller probe couldn't get Trump.
    IMpeachment couldn't get Trump.
    in fact the economy thrived through those two hiccups.

    So, now it's "The Coronavirus!" The plague of the apocalypse! We're all going to die. Anything company dependent on anything coming out of China is in a death spiral. The news media is reporting every new case as if it is the second coming and it's working.

    WE've known all along that the Liberals would see America destroyed before they give up power... Well, there it is, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, Coronavirus, ....

    My advice is not to buy masks and hand sanitizer... rather, have your money ready when the world is once again safe from Coronavirus, and be ready to BUY! Because stocks are going to be at all time lows, stores are going to be empty, and we'll see an economic boom like never before..

    Alan

  7. #47

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    Bah, death spiral. No one is that dependent on China. Except maybe Amazon Prime, and I'm not worried about them.
    It's all about instilling panic as Alan said. There's a certain segment that seems to buy into all the media hype no matter what it is.
    Maybe this is the apocalypse a lot of the lurkers have been dreaming of. Get your BOBs and black rifles and get ready to eat tree bark and MREs.

    I did notice some very strange holes in the shelves at the grocery store today.
    No flour. Never seen that before.
    Lots of bread missing (though there were a few snowflakes in the air while wandering into the store.)
    Big holes in the water aisle too.

    My mission tomorrow is toilet paper. Time to make a Costco trip up over the border. Cash. No sales tax.
    If we are to have another contest in…our national existence I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's, but between patriotism & intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition & ignorance on the other…
    ~ President Ulysses S. Grant

  8. #48

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    China, Italy, and Iran are not involved in some crazy liberal conspiracy to oust Trump. This is potentially serious.

    When trying to quarantine the outbreak, the were basically just screening for fevers. We now know that was a terribly inefficient way to catch carriers and that they likely missed 60% of total cases. Where did those people go? All over. And most medical facilities are not equipped to test for it.

    Doctors are asking patients calling in with flu like symptoms if they’ve traveled internationally recently or been in contact with any such travelers, but that’s about it.


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  9. #49
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    Cliff, nothing from China is reliable. Period. The SARS epidemic was more dangerous than this and they bearly blinked an eye. Now they're losing there minds over a cold? I don't think so. If they're anything, John Hopkins isn't "misleading" - they're just not losing their minds over a cold. And, trying to oust Trump? You have /me/ seriously wrong there. I would think that the last thing they would want is to oust Trump.
    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfVanZandt View Post
    Cliff, nothing from China is reliable. Period. The SARS epidemic was more dangerous than this and they bearly blinked an eye. Now they're losing there minds over a cold? I don't think so. If they're anything, John Hopkins isn't "misleading" - they're just not losing their minds over a cold. And, trying to oust Trump? You have /me/ seriously wrong there. I would think that the last thing they would want is to oust Trump.
    You mentioned Mayo. They’ve been preparing for this for weeks and one of their leaders have admitted this has the potential to be a disaster. I know people in China right now. The situation is extremely dire. Unbelievable amount of people confined to their homes. One meal a day and praying they can make that last.


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  11. #51
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Hi Cliff Booth. Since this is the topic that seems to concern you (as it should us all) and you are offering up some info on it, could you please go to the introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself. I, as many other do, like to know more about who is offering advice and opinion. Thanks.
    Can't Means Won't

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  12. #52
    Senior Member Phaedrus's Avatar
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    It bears watching for sure. There's a vaccine already, it was delivered to the NIH a few days ago for testing. I have no idea what the testing protocol is like nor how long it takes to enter the supply line (assuming it works). It sounds like this virus isn't airborne; to become infected you need to contact the afflicted person and/or their mucus or bodily fluids. Incidents of infection from surface contact seems low, too (eg using the keyboard of someone who's sick, etc).

    Travel restrictions seem pointless AFAIK. It's already established in most countries. The incubation period seems to be as long as three weeks during which time the carrier may show no symptoms. There's a test but apparently there are only a few thousand test kits in the whole of the USA so good luck with that.

    Avoiding those already sick is a good policy but someone can show no symptoms so that's difficult. The best bet seems to be to avoid contact with people as much as possible and wash your hands frequently and correctly.

    I work as the Exec Chef of nonprofit in MT. Our next program is in a couple weeks and all the participants are flying in from Virginia Beach. We're watching the situation as it's entire families that go through our program. If COVID19 quickly spreads I would anticipate us cancelling the next couple programs.

  13. #53

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    CDC said 12-18 months for the testing.

  14. #54
    Junior Member zedsdead's Avatar
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    Just to put this hype into perspective:
    The population of China is 1.6 billion people, the number of cases reported is plateauing, and the death rate is relatively low.
    For 80,000 cases in China, only 0.005% of the population have had the virus.

  15. #55

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    I know a family that moved to China as doctor/missionaries. They are in Chengdu. In their apartment complex they are allowed to have one adult leave the complex (they aren't stuck in the apartment) every two days for critical items. The clinic he works at has been closed all of February (not sure what date it closed), but recently started having limited access for medicine refills, and mild emergencies. He hasn't worked since late January.

    He doesn't sound panicked about it as a plague, but he hasn't worked, so he hasn't been paid. He mentions schools and businesses being closed, with rumors that they may re-open in mid-March.

    I think (for whatever my opinion is worth), that our major problems are going to be economic. Just because your business, or job, doesn't directly deal with China, doesn't mean you won't be effected by the Chinese shut-down. If a manufacturer/assembler doesn't get it's Chinese parts, they won't be using any American ones either. TQMS-type facilities will really be hit hard. [Total Quality Management System - "just in time" supply chain - minimal inventory]

    Real problems will be exacerbated by panic. I remember back in the 1970's there were a couple of shortages of some products (I forget what they were), and Johnny Carson made a joke about the real problem would be if there was a toilet paper shortage. That joke created a shortage, because some people weren't really listening (imagine that!), thought there was a shortage, and emptied the shelves of toilet paper. The "shortage" was perpetuated because people saw they empty shelves, then bought it all up whenever any was stocked.

    History repeats itself.
    "The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play." Capt. James T. Kirk

  16. #56
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    The usual rush on Walmart when a storm is predicted? Now it's because of the Corona virus. We're probably having more people die trying to get to ( and out of) Walmart then will ever die as a result of the virus.

    The only importance of what China is doing is why they're doing it. Like I said, the SARS epidemic was more dangerous and there was none of this "panic". I don't believe all the frenzied activity is about the virus.

    This is not a pandemic and the answer is not to panic or to isolate anyone. Survival is done by cooperating, not by isolating.

    By the way, do you know where most of our paper surgical masks come from?
    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.

  17. #57
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    Y'know, I'm getting pretty fed up with all these politicians rallying people, not to come together in a time of crisis, but to come over to their side because they're some kind of daddy that will protect us from some kind of monster that, frankly, is probably imaginary.

    Home of the brave and free? We're the home of the frightened and locked in.

    I don't need protection from the Corona virus. I need protection from the people running for office. The way things are going, I may soon need protection from citizens that think that I might be infected and from the police that are good to keep people indoors so they don't spread "this thing". Heck, if we're all quarantined on election day, we just won't have an election, will we?

    "Where's our heads at?"
    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.

  18. #58

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    All those people that wanted to take a one way trip to Mars should step up for testing.

  19. #59

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    I’m confused as to why you keep saying SARS is more dangerous. The data pretty clearly demonstrate that is not true.


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  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by zedsdead View Post
    Just to put this hype into perspective:
    The population of China is 1.6 billion people, the number of cases reported is plateauing, and the death rate is relatively low.
    For 80,000 cases in China, only 0.005% of the population have had the virus.
    Italy is probably what we need to watch to see how this thing might play out over here. No telling how accurate China's numbers are. Also, they shot themselves in the foot by trying to squash any doctors warning them that something was up.

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