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Thread: My pet peeve

  1. #1
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    Ok, so here's one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to survival kits. VISIBILITY!

    Now, you're probably wondering why I have such a big pet peeves with this. Let me explain.

    First of all, let me start by saying that I feel there is a difference between a survival kit and an emergency kit. An emergency kit is for those times when something happens and you have to be rescued, in the worst case. A survival kit is for when you may end up stuck and unable to make it back to civilization in a timely manner. For example, you wouldn't use a survival kit in a city during/after a sudden disaster like an earthquake, there are places to go for food and water and shelter that will be set up as a response to said disaster. This is where an emergency kit comes into play, having a flashlight and some snacks, some water and a medkit to name a few things. This is not a survival kit.

    A survival kit will have, if assembled correctly, everything you need to survive a minimum of 72 hours outdoors in the wilderness. Perhaps you go hiking and realize, you are several miles from your starting point with no clear trail back marked and you won't have enough sunlight to return before dark. It may only be for the night, but that survival kit in your pack has everything to make your night semi comfortable. You will have fire, clean water, a shelter, and food. You don't need rescued so the need for high visibility items are not important.

    So, why is it that so often I hear people say to get a bright colored pack, or some other form of high visibility gear? Now I'm not saying you shouldn't have something that is high-vis, just that not everything should be. I have a signal mirror in my kit, a high-vis orange mylar blanket with silver lining, a flashlight, and chem lights as well. But that is all for attention getting. Anything else high-vis orange is for my own benefit, like my ferro rod and striker having orange handles so I don't easily lose them if I drop them.

    Now obviously, I'm not hating on those who are gonna carry a high-vis orange pack, or other color, in a survival situation. But my survival kit isn't just for a walk in the woods, for that I have a small belt pouch that carries all of my basic needs, not including food and water. Obviously if I'm out hiking, I will have some snacks and water with me, but I have a small fishing kit in my belt pouch as well as trapping tools like snare wire and mouse traps. I also don't don't call this my survival kit, it is simply call my belt kit and stays in my car when I'm not out and about in the woods. My survival kit, the whole 9 yards, sits in my bedroom at home next to my bed within arms reach at all times. It has everything in it I would need for long term survival, to me that's 30+ days. It also doubles as my INCH bag, hence it is geared up for long term survival. It is set up so that I can leave home in case of societal collapse and keep a low profile away from other people and not be found. If I'm carrying and displaying unnatural colors in the woods, it would be easy to spot me, something I don't want as I travel or set up camp.

    Anyone else feel this way or have a similar peeve? I know I can't be alone in this. But again, this is just my opinion, not so much a rant or anything.
    Stay scoped and keep your eye on the target.
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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    It all depends on if you consider wilderness survival a condition where you are awaiting rescue by search and rescue units, or a chance to run off to the woods and play "ninja boy scout" on an escape and evasion training session.
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I would say your odds of needing SAR are far greater than your need to run away from home forever. And as for places to go for food and water after a disaster, you might ask those folks that survived Katrina about that. Better still, ask those that didn't survive Katrina because they didn't have clean water or food. Most of my bags happen to be camo and black just because they were cheap military surplus. But I do have high visibility markers so I can be found. SAR is my first concern. Just my humble opinion.

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    kyratshooter, E&E training is a fair point, but if I'm awaiting SAR it's because I've sustained a serious injury and cannot make it out on my own. I don't wilderness survival a SAR condition unless considering serious injury. If you have the means and the ability to survive and make it out on your own then that's what you should do. Relying on other people isn't always your best option.
    Stay scoped and keep your eye on the target.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I would say your odds of needing SAR are far greater than your need to run away from home forever. And as for places to go for food and water after a disaster, you might ask those folks that survived Katrina about that. Better still, ask those that didn't survive Katrina because they didn't have clean water or food. Most of my bags happen to be camo and black just because they were cheap military surplus. But I do have high visibility markers so I can be found. SAR is my first concern. Just my humble opinion.
    I have high-vis items in case of a situation where I need rescued, example would be due to serious injury that would make it impossible to make it out on my own. I have had to, for lack of better phrase, bug out from home and stay in the woods for an extended period. That was when I first became interested in survival and made it a point to learn everything I could about gear and skills to make it.

    As for the disaster relief after Katrina, there was help. Knowing that they lived in an area not only prone to yearly flooding, but severe hurricanes as well, they should have had several days worth of bottled water stored to begin with. The same goes for a few days worth of canned foods.

    I live in an area where, short of being snowed in during winter and the rare and random tornado, we don't have many natural disaster potentials. Some severe thunderstorms that might knock out power and such, but that's really about all. Yet we still keep 2 or more cases of bottled water at home as well as several days worth of canned and dried foods in case of an emergency. It's about being prepared, nothing else. What happened to those after Katrina, a side from being stranded on their roofs due to the flooding, was their own fault for not having contingencies. Their deaths, the ones due to not having food and water, could have easily been prevented had they stocked supplies, which isn't even an emergency prep, it's just a plain old good idea. Not saying that I don't feel bad for those we lost, just that it was their own fault.
    Stay scoped and keep your eye on the target.
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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Well, we have gone bouncing from urban disaster survival, which is not a wilderness experience, to the theory that anyone that has two legs and is uninjured should be able to save themselves.

    There's a big problem here, that being that not everyone is as skilled, healthy, and immune to injury as you seem to be.

    What if you are injured? Does an injured person not deserve survival, rescue or continued life? No one intends to get injured, and no one intends to need an orange pack or tarp or zombie green reflector tape, but stuff happens.

    What about those that get turned around each year and have to be brought out by SAR, or their bodies brought out. Many are experienced outdoorsmen who just stepped off the trail for a break and turned the wrong way. Hundreds have to be guided out each year and many dead bodies left from the previous summer are found each autumn by hunters.

    Here's a situation where a blaze orange rucksack hanging from a rope in a tree might have saved a life, since SAR teams were within 150 feet of her at least once. Perhaps if she had been carrying an orange tent SAR helicopters would have spotted her and her bones would have been found before a year was past.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/u...ail-maine.html

    As for the situation where you live, well we would not know about that, you have not informed us of state, region, or town where you are so we can not send 911 to rescue you.

    As for my situation, we have floods, fires, and tornadoes, but our greatest long term danger is transient Yankees during the annual north south migration. (No offense intended Jim Glass, you are the Yankee exception)
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 05-23-2018 at 09:04 PM.
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

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    Senior Member Manwithnoname's Avatar
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    You guys are bringing back memories of being in the USCG for 6yrs. Visibility is a very real factor. Our PFD'S were blaze orange with retroreflective tape all over them as were our mustang suits. In each one we carried pencil flares with a launcher, strobe light, signal mirror, survival knife and a whistle. Some would argue, "thats different you were on the ocean". My answer to that, the wilderness is an ocean, just has trees, or mountains or whatever instead of waves. The places I hunt and fish around here I know like the back of my hand and aren't so expansive those who would come searching wouldn't find me. If I were going somewhere new or way off the beaten path you can rest assured I would have visibility items with me to help me be found if I needed it.

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    My BIL was on the West Bank during and after Katrina. He stayed for two weeks. Main mode of transportation was bicycles. They had a generator in a blacked out room. They blacked out any room that had a light. They did not clear trees from the street and did not let anyone see them going to and from the house. The looters were looting and the National Guard were rounding up and evacuating anyone they could catch (except the looters). They had plenty of gas for the generator from the neighborhood. He and his neighbor were the only people for three or four blocks in any direction. The city water was never off (no one was using the water in the towers so they had plenty of potable water) and the land lines worked. what finally did it for them was when all the freezers in the neighborhood started Popping open. What looters, police, national guard, and a horrendous act of God could not do, the stench of rotting food accomplished. They left when they could not take the smell any more.

    They did not go into that situation with any sort of preparedness at all except that they had a shotgun each and one of them had a generator.

    Resourcefulness and conservation of the resources at hand was all they had, and it worked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    Well, we have gone bouncing from urban disaster survival, which is not a wilderness experience, to the theory that anyone that has two legs and is uninjured should be able to save themselves.

    There's a big problem here, that being that not everyone is as skilled, healthy, and immune to injury as you seem to be.

    What if you are injured? Does an injured person not deserve survival, rescue or continued life? No one intends to get injured, and no one intends to need an orange pack or tarp or zombie green reflector tape, but stuff happens.

    What about those that get turned around each year and have to be brought out by SAR, or their bodies brought out. Many are experienced outdoorsmen who just stepped off the trail for a break and turned the wrong way. Hundreds have to be guided out each year and many dead bodies left from the previous summer are found each autumn by hunters.

    Here's a situation where a blaze orange rucksack hanging from a rope in a tree might have saved a life, since SAR teams were within 150 feet of her at least once. Perhaps if she had been carrying an orange tent SAR helicopters would have spotted her and her bones would have been found before a year was past.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/u...ail-maine.html

    As for the situation where you live, well we would not know about that, you have not informed us of state, region, or town where you are so we can not send 911 to rescue you.

    As for my situation, we have floods, fires, and tornadoes, but our greatest long term danger is transient Yankees during the annual north south migration. (No offense intended Jim Glass, you are the Yankee exception)
    No, there was no bouncing. I stated two scenarios, an urban disaster where the necessity to be rescued is generally a must, and wilderness survival. And yes, I feel that if you are a healthy human being without injury, you should be able to get yourself out of the woods. Self reliance is a big part of survival, often times you may be alone so becoming used to relying on others can be detrimental.

    I do seem to be immune to injury, to be honest. Over the years I have been on this Earth, I have done things that should have resulted in injuries such as broken hands, leg, tailbone, ribs, etc. But I have largely come out unscathed aside from a few minor scars here and there. Sickness is a different matter, as I've had colds and such, as well as bronchitis that had lasted nearly 6 months. But generally speaking, I have put my body through it's paces in many situations and haven't sustained serious injury. So yes, I am fairly resistant to injury it would seem.

    Again, I'm not saying that one shouldn't carry items of high-vis colors, just that ones entire kit doesn't need to be so. I have stated that I carry a bright orange and reflective silver mylar blanket just for the need to signal a SAR crew if I should ever need them, as well as a signal mirror and wistle. I know SOS with a flashlight as well, though its the only Morse code I know.

    As for those experienced woodsman who "step off the trail for a break" and get lost, well I'm certain carrying a compass would have served them very well at that time. At the beginning of your hike/excursion, you should take note of your directional heading, as well as every so often especially if you are making turns. I make it a habit to do so when I got out on hikes because I follow no set trail most of the time. It is, for me at least, how I keep navigation skill sharp. Even going a hundred yards off the trail, as long as your compass is correct then all you have to do is remember which way the trail was and go in that direction. Or, another method is to walk an ever widening circle until you either come across familiar landmarks or the trail itself. Another method is tree blazing, simply scrap bark off of a tree every few yards or so on both sides and you will have a marked path to follow back. These things are common sense, are they not?

    As for where I live, suffice to say it is in the Northeast United States. I grew up in the South and miss it dearly, but things keep me in the colder states due to family and such. But regardless of where I live, I would have the appropriate preparations in case of common disasters in my area. Even so, having those stocks doesn't always mean you will survive a disaster in your area.

    Also, remember my original post stated that this was simply my opinion. I'm not a survivalist in the mind frame that I might need to get rescued so I need to sit tight in the woods and wait for help, my mind frame is that I may need to hit the woods for some reason and have to live the old ways. So, by reasoning the fact that most land now is either privately owned or state owned, I want to be as low on the radar as possible until such time as I need someone to find me.
    Stay scoped and keep your eye on the target.
    Semper Fortis, Semper Gumby, Semper Paratus, Semper Fidelis, Mentis Corporisque.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manwithnoname View Post
    If I were going somewhere new or way off the beaten path you can rest assured I would have visibility items with me to help me be found if I needed it.
    This is very much my point, having high-vis items vs. having an entire bright orange kit. Having a method, or several, to signal with is a no brainier but there's no need to walk around like Ronald McDonald in full clown suit.
    Stay scoped and keep your eye on the target.
    Semper Fortis, Semper Gumby, Semper Paratus, Semper Fidelis, Mentis Corporisque.

  11. #11

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    Why do you care what color anyone else's pack is?
    Do what you like and let other people do their own thing.
    I can think of a number of reasons to be using high-viz orange kits. We had them as kids on our first hikes so the 'rents could keep track of us on the trail, and I use one during deer hunting season because I live in a state where newb hunters can't tell the difference between someone out walking their large brown dog and a deer. If I'm going to a particular surf-casting spot, I bring one to carry my gear that I hang on my sandspike to keep the a$$holes in their big speedboats from roaring up into my fishing space. If I'm going for an overnight at that spot, I velcro on the reflector tape for the same reason.
    Get over it.
    Last edited by LowKey; 05-24-2018 at 08:09 PM.
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    I usually use a silver Tundra Crew Mx 4x4 to pack my overnight stuff in. It's High Vis, so I can find it if I wander off 100 yards or so.

    Alan

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    Senior Member Antonyraison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScopedIn View Post
    Ok, so here's one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to survival kits. VISIBILITY!

    Now, you're probably wondering why I have such a big pet peeves with this. Let me explain.

    First of all, let me start by saying that I feel there is a difference between a survival kit and an emergency kit. An emergency kit is for those times when something happens and you have to be rescued, in the worst case. A survival kit is for when you may end up stuck and unable to make it back to civilization in a timely manner. For example, you wouldn't use a survival kit in a city during/after a sudden disaster like an earthquake, there are places to go for food and water and shelter that will be set up as a response to said disaster. This is where an emergency kit comes into play, having a flashlight and some snacks, some water and a medkit to name a few things. This is not a survival kit.

    A survival kit will have, if assembled correctly, everything you need to survive a minimum of 72 hours outdoors in the wilderness. Perhaps you go hiking and realize, you are several miles from your starting point with no clear trail back marked and you won't have enough sunlight to return before dark. It may only be for the night, but that survival kit in your pack has everything to make your night semi comfortable. You will have fire, clean water, a shelter, and food. You don't need rescued so the need for high visibility items are not important.

    So, why is it that so often I hear people say to get a bright colored pack, or some other form of high visibility gear? Now I'm not saying you shouldn't have something that is high-vis, just that not everything should be. I have a signal mirror in my kit, a high-vis orange mylar blanket with silver lining, a flashlight, and chem lights as well. But that is all for attention getting. Anything else high-vis orange is for my own benefit, like my ferro rod and striker having orange handles so I don't easily lose them if I drop them.

    Now obviously, I'm not hating on those who are gonna carry a high-vis orange pack, or other color, in a survival situation. But my survival kit isn't just for a walk in the woods, for that I have a small belt pouch that carries all of my basic needs, not including food and water. Obviously if I'm out hiking, I will have some snacks and water with me, but I have a small fishing kit in my belt pouch as well as trapping tools like snare wire and mouse traps. I also don't don't call this my survival kit, it is simply call my belt kit and stays in my car when I'm not out and about in the woods. My survival kit, the whole 9 yards, sits in my bedroom at home next to my bed within arms reach at all times. It has everything in it I would need for long term survival, to me that's 30+ days. It also doubles as my INCH bag, hence it is geared up for long term survival. It is set up so that I can leave home in case of societal collapse and keep a low profile away from other people and not be found. If I'm carrying and displaying unnatural colors in the woods, it would be easy to spot me, something I don't want as I travel or set up camp.

    Anyone else feel this way or have a similar peeve? I know I can't be alone in this. But again, this is just my opinion, not so much a rant or anything.
    Well You thinking about only 1 maybe one possible senario
    that well you want to go into the bush Live and survive and escape and evade (societal collapse, and be seen when you want to be seen)
    This is not always the Case.
    in a survival situation you may find your self marooned in the wilderness so then Well your ultimate end goal is to Either A walk out the Situation, or B Rescue.
    Hiving high vis is going to help the rescue of yourself more so than blending in.
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    Senior Member Antonyraison's Avatar
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    Another note I think you not thinking on the issues broadly...
    Urban Survival and wilderness survival and emergency preparedness.
    All under "Survival" but some what different
    each having their own well identified risks and preparations for the possible eventualities.

    The possible likely risks needing to be assessed and prepared for
    So really its Risk mitigation and packing of kit for those defined risks.

    So whether the possible likely scenario is an societal collapse due to war, political unrest etc etc.. those in any scenario maybe an escape and evade scenario (when Its urban its grey man type stuff etc) when its in the bush its similar.

    Natural distaster and lost hiker in the woods type thing well then the ability to be seen will be more paramount than not being seen.
    Regardless of all this a kit needs to be tailored to you and your risks and skill set etc.
    Just because one kit over another may strike you as something stupid, it may not really be..
    Last edited by Antonyraison; 05-25-2018 at 02:12 AM.
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    Senior Member Antonyraison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScopedIn View Post
    No, there was no bouncing. I stated two scenarios, an urban disaster where the necessity to be rescued is generally a must, and wilderness survival. And yes, I feel that if you are a healthy human being without injury, you should be able to get yourself out of the woods. Self reliance is a big part of survival, often times you may be alone so becoming used to relying on others can be detrimental.

    I do seem to be immune to injury, to be honest. Over the years I have been on this Earth, I have done things that should have resulted in injuries such as broken hands, leg, tailbone, ribs, etc. But I have largely come out unscathed aside from a few minor scars here and there. Sickness is a different matter, as I've had colds and such, as well as bronchitis that had lasted nearly 6 months. But generally speaking, I have put my body through it's paces in many situations and haven't sustained serious injury. So yes, I am fairly resistant to injury it would seem.

    Again, I'm not saying that one shouldn't carry items of high-vis colors, just that ones entire kit doesn't need to be so. I have stated that I carry a bright orange and reflective silver mylar blanket just for the need to signal a SAR crew if I should ever need them, as well as a signal mirror and wistle. I know SOS with a flashlight as well, though its the only Morse code I know.

    As for those experienced woodsman who "step off the trail for a break" and get lost, well I'm certain carrying a compass would have served them very well at that time. At the beginning of your hike/excursion, you should take note of your directional heading, as well as every so often especially if you are making turns. I make it a habit to do so when I got out on hikes because I follow no set trail most of the time. It is, for me at least, how I keep navigation skill sharp. Even going a hundred yards off the trail, as long as your compass is correct then all you have to do is remember which way the trail was and go in that direction. Or, another method is to walk an ever widening circle until you either come across familiar landmarks or the trail itself. Another method is tree blazing, simply scrap bark off of a tree every few yards or so on both sides and you will have a marked path to follow back. These things are common sense, are they not?

    As for where I live, suffice to say it is in the Northeast United States. I grew up in the South and miss it dearly, but things keep me in the colder states due to family and such. But regardless of where I live, I would have the appropriate preparations in case of common disasters in my area. Even so, having those stocks doesn't always mean you will survive a disaster in your area.

    Also, remember my original post stated that this was simply my opinion. I'm not a survivalist in the mind frame that I might need to get rescued so I need to sit tight in the woods and wait for help, my mind frame is that I may need to hit the woods for some reason and have to live the old ways. So, by reasoning the fact that most land now is either privately owned or state owned, I want to be as low on the radar as possible until such time as I need someone to find me.
    "die man van staal" hahah the man of steel (translated from Afrikaans to english)

    hahahah well then you either Young or lucky.
    Injuries catch up to you.
    Broken leg
    broken arm
    broken foot
    tears in patella tendon
    Cartledge damage
    etc etc etc etc, They all add up, repetitive stress injuries, some are well bearable and well heal, some take many many many years, the older you get the worse this is.
    Dont worry I had a belief I was indestructible also (when I was like umm 15?)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antonyraison View Post
    "die man van staal" hahah the man of steel (translated from Afrikaans to english)

    hahahah well then you either Young or lucky.
    Injuries catch up to you.
    Broken leg
    broken arm
    broken foot
    tears in patella tendon
    Cartledge damage
    etc etc etc etc, They all add up, repetitive stress injuries, some are well bearable and well heal, some take many many many years, the older you get the worse this is.
    Dont worry I had a belief I was indestructible also (when I was like umm 15?)
    Compared to many on here, I am young. I'm 26 years old and have never sustained a serious injury. Now that's not to say I haven't injured myself, I have some minor back problems due to twisting my back when I was like 16. I also lacerated my shin due to a machete incident when I was like 18, didn't need stitches or anything but I was out in the woods. I do have proper first aid and CPR training from Red Cross back when I worked as a life guard. I wouldn't attribute my lack of injury to being young, there may have been luck involved though. I'm not saying I'm indestructible, I know I'm not, but it would seem injury is not often a thing I must worry about.
    Stay scoped and keep your eye on the target.
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  17. #17

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    Nobody wants to hear my laundry list of broken body parts. But I will say that this 60 yo ain't humpin' $hir into the woods come SHTF. Truck, canoe, or preferably bug in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    Nobody wants to hear my laundry list of broken body parts. But I will say that this 60 yo ain't humpin' $hir into the woods come SHTF. Truck, canoe, or preferably bug in.
    60? That's a ripe young man, but I don't blame ya for wanting an alternate mode of transportation. If I had my way, I'd have a nice high ride Jon boat that could take shallow creeks. A small motor and an electric trolling motor with a solar panel for charging the battery. Granted, gas would run out after a bit and the trolling motor would be slow going but I'd have oars as well which is a good workout in itself. If I was on my own, I would take a traditional canoe instead.
    Stay scoped and keep your eye on the target.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Front porch, popcorn, softdrink. I'll watch the drama unfold. Once everyone beats, stabs, shoots, clubs, and otherwise does nasty things to each other then I'll drive along and pick up stuff that interests me and toss it in the back of the truck. It will be like harvest time on the prairie. If I find a dead 26 year old with a primo pack I'll know who that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Front porch, popcorn, softdrink. I'll watch the drama unfold. Once everyone beats, stabs, shoots, clubs, and otherwise does nasty things to each other then I'll drive along and pick up stuff that interests me and toss it in the back of the truck. It will be like harvest time on the prairie. If I find a dead 26 year old with a primo pack I'll know who that is.
    Lmao. Won't find me on the prairie Rick. I stick to the mountains, swamps, and backwoods. Those are places I call home.
    Stay scoped and keep your eye on the target.
    Semper Fortis, Semper Gumby, Semper Paratus, Semper Fidelis, Mentis Corporisque.

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