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Thread: Looking at air guns

  1. #61
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    I went the cheap route with this first device.

    I bought an IR setup that mounts onto an existing scope. It has a camera fitted to a scope-eyepiece adapter, a monitor screen and an IR illuminator. All of it can be changed from one scope to another so I can change it from rifle to rifle without dedicating any gun specifically to the night vision device.

    Since the scope is not moved from rifle to rifle the zero setting of the scope remains the same. I can use it on an air rifle tonight, a .22 rimfire tomorrow night and one of the ARs or a .308 the next.

    It also allows me to use the rifle in the daylight as well as in darkness, with or without the IR illumination.

    As a pure survival tool it is really appealing. I know that night shooting is illegal but in a survival situation being able to take game at night doubles ones food gathering opportunities, or really triples them due to most game being nocturnal to start with. That is why night hunting is illegal!

    When do rats come out? Whenever they think you can not see them, just like the hogs!

    I think you will find that rats are available anywhere that harbors a food source. Dairy operations, hog barns and chicken farms are all equally plagued.

    When I operated my farm down in Tennessee I made the mistake of lining up the round hay bales in the barn lot so they would be handy for winter feed and easy to shift using the tractor. I had three or four hundred of them filling that barnyard. Those hay bales were rat magnets! The pests dug into them, underneath them and tunneled a small city through them. My cat and dog used to hunt them for sport and leave them lined up on the porch step for my approval. They hunted them as a team with my dog in top of the bales scaring the rats out and the cat cornering and killing them.

    So it does not even have to be a big setup that does intense feeding. Just any farm with some grain or hay scattered around and places for the rats to hide and breed.

    One female rat can reproduce to multiples that total 23,000 descendants each year and they will live in population congestion that is unimaginable to us.

    You might be surprised to discover how many rats you would spot just sitting on your back yard with the lights turned out if you live on the fringe of town.

    Now what you need to do is sprinkle some corn around the house, then get up on the roof with your nigh shooting rig and just wait for them to show up.

    I got to thinking about how much it costs to hang around here and went back and re-read this whole thread.

    Apparently in just 61 posts the forum has spent about $4000, not counting money spent on compressor projects and nifty targets!

    We were better off sticking to the ARs.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 04-28-2018 at 01:32 AM.


  2. #62
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    I'm interested in your night vision setup. Where did you get it? I think your device is called a "stack on". The guys I hog hunt with
    would be very interested because they already have guns with scopes they use for deer hunting. I know they would like to have night vision capability but are reluctant to spend the money like I did. They say they can buy a lot of pork for what I paid for my thermo imaging scope. Not a very good argument and they don't shoot very many hogs because of it. But they seem to have plenty of money to spend on Harley motorcycles, something I don't have. Sometimes you can't look at what something costs but look at what it is. Thermo imaging is very high level technology and the right equipment for hunting at night. I hog hunt almost every night and some mornings when I'm in Florida, the other guys hunt only occasionally. The thermo scope has many, many hours of run time on it.

  3. #63
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    The new state of the art stuff is very expensive, but some of the older stuff, which is still good equipment for the average guy is coming down in price.

    What I bought is a simple IR system that is much like what was used on the M1-carbine night sniper rifle of WW2. It is advertised at 50 meter range but after reading and watching several reviews the actual usable range is more like 100 meters. These systems seem to be all over the place in the "world of ratshooters". Probably because they are cheap, simple and modular. If one part goes out you can replace it without trashing the entire system. You can also buy a more powerful IR light and boost the system.

    At $125 I figured I could not do much damage to the finances since that is about the price of the average scope I generally use. Besides that I have rotated out a bunch of scopes that left me helpless at dusk and dawn. I will have less insistence on illuminated cross hairs on every rifle if this works. And if it does work it will not be the last one I buy.

    I am also anxious to see how it works with a couple of the tubed red dot sights I have. If that will work without blowing out my retinas I will be a happy camper.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/182470776685https

    I found the simple setup while looking for a price break on the device below, which is termed as a "generation 1 device". It has both IR and light gathering ability but must be sheltered from daytime light sources. It therefore requires a dedicated rifle to be used only for night work.

    There are several of these very affordable generation 1 devices available now at around the $400 mark.

    I decided to wait for a bit before I spent the cost of a new AR kit for an optic that can only be used on one rifle and only at night. I am not there yet.

    http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...cope?a=2168162

    One of the things I discovered is that most of the really expensive devices that are capable of facial identification at 100 meters and target acquisition at 1800 meters can perform further than most rifles can shoot! I do not need that for shooting rats and vermin at 25 meters with my air rifle.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 04-28-2018 at 12:41 PM.

  4. #64
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    I have a Night Owl night vision monocular I bought at Cabelas and still use it in Florida. The Night Owl monocular I loan out to the other hunters that don't have any night vision at all. Some like it and some don't. The hog hunters determined to kill a hog at night learn to like night vision, like I did. It takes many hours of viewing to become comfortable with night vision.

    This is my Firefield night vision scope. It served me well but in Florida it is mounted on my AR-15 223 that I loan to guest hunters while the thermo imaging scope is mounted to my 300 blackout. If a loan hog wonders in I hand the 300 blackout to the guest hunter. If a sounder of hogs comes in it is pretty much every man for himself but I let the guest hunter make the first shot. I have some stories to tell on those episodes.

    Here is what my Firefield scope looks like, runs on 2 AA batteries that last almost forever:
    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...SABEgJvG_D_BwE
    Last edited by jim Glass; 04-28-2018 at 04:47 PM.

  5. #65
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Ok you guys, due to peer pressure and my own specifically targeted character flaws I now have a new airgun on the way.

    I went half way between Anthony's choice of the pressure canister rifle and Jim's choice of a springer. I have ordered a Diania Stormryder PCP in .22 caliber.

    It uses pressurized air but has only a small air chamber so it only holds 30-40 shots. It works off the hand pump or from a tank or high pressure compressor. From what I can tell after the first fill to 2000psi it has a range of consistent accuracy down to 1000psi, at which time it usually takes about 40 pumps to top it back up.

    I will add that to my cardio routine.

    I got a fantastic deal on a used one from Pyrimid Air. It had to be a good deal since these freekin' airheads think that anything under $600 is an entry level shooter. I paid more for this airgun than I did for the last centerfire rifle I bought and that .308 shoots real well. This pellet rifle better put out some performance!

    I also paid for hand inspection and testing of O-rings and seals which I felt should have been normal service on a used shooter but if they do not consider it such the price for the service was so cheap I did not really care. They check the shooter over, pressure test it, fire 10 rounds for group and chrono average, and I am sure that is a well used service for people that do not have a chrono. I will use it to check the validity of my own numbers when I run my own checks.

    For the past week I have been shooting my springer in the back yard and really enjoying not having the worry of disturbing anyone. I now have one neighbor that works nights and I do not wish to bother his sleep so my .22lr has been silent for a few months due to cold weather and courtesy.

    My Beeman is a fairly good shooter but I have not been really satisfied with the accuracy it gives and after a really thorough chrono session I now understand why. The velocities bounce around over a range of 75fps, from 800-875/880. I had one shot top 900fps. It does OK at the standard 33 feet but when you stretch out to 25 yards the group opens to better than 2".

    I really should not gripe, since my Ruger 10/22 shot 3" groups at 25 when I started working on it!

    I suppose I am in the middle of it now! A whole new world of spending has opened for me,,,PCP rifles and night vision devices.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Antonyraison's Avatar
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    PCP is probably the way to go!
    I will likely upgrade to pcp upon a time.
    Compressed air is Far more consistent to shoot with than co2
    Good choice.
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  7. #67
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    One of the reasons I chose the rifle I did was that it is not a "high pressure" rifle. While some of the top end PCP guns are pressurized to 3000-4000psi mine is only charged to 2000psi.

    That means that I can recharge my rifle with a special hand pump here at home. It is much like the old pump up rifles that were "state of the art" back in the 1950s and '60s, only you pump it once and shoot it all day.

    I will still be getting 800-900fps with each shot, but I will not get but 15-25 shots before I have to recharge.

    I also have the option of recharging from a scuba tank, a special carbon fiber recharge tank or straight from a hi-pressure compressor. I will probably go with one of the tank options latter. They are quite expensive even though very convenient.

    Buying a compressor is about out of the question, they cost about $4000 and I do not see that much airgun shooting in my future.

    For $4000 I can buy the top five guns on my "always wished I owned one of those" list!

  8. #68
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    61K2H5WuOiL__SL1500_.jpg

    Those are only $219 at Amazon.com

    I would like to find something like that in .30 cal. Plenty of places in Florida to fill scuba tanks.

    We must now find a way to build a low cost compressor
    Last edited by jim Glass; 05-03-2018 at 04:21 AM.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Antonyraison's Avatar
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    Yeah only reason I havent gotten into pcp is the cost of a filling station or scuba tank etc..
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  10. #70
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    The Chinese have already solved that problem! I just found these today while surfing Youtube.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NdnItyJs-U&t=618s


    The price has gone up a little since this video was made but they are still cheaper than buying a carbon fiber tank, or even a SCUBA tank and the valves.

    Tanks also have all kinds of restrictions on them and not every town has a dive shop or even a paintball store that does high pressure refills. If a tank is more than 15 years old they can not be refilled commercially.

    When you buy a compressor you can get used scba tanks off Ebay that are out of date but still good and fill them yourself. Since they have been trashed by the fire departments due to only being out of date they are still usable but sell for $25-$50 rather than the $500-$700 for new ones.

    You can use the compressor to fill the tank and then fill the gun or you can fill the gun right off the compressor.

    At $250-$300 for a small compressor that is about the same as 1K 5.56 or 7.62x39 ammo and I have been paying $430 per 1K for .308. I think I will just absorb the cost like I would any other ammo purchase, except it should last a lifetime and blow up a car tire in about 10 seconds!

    I picked up two cans of pellets last week and that 1000 chunks of lead set me back a whooping $15. Some of that will be recovered since I have a target trap that retains spent pellets for use in the yard and I will cast the scrap into other bullets.

    BTW, if air guns are not really firearms do I have to subtract the cost of all this air gun gear from my regular guns and ammo budget? I still have other craves going.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 05-03-2018 at 04:47 AM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    BTW, if air guns are not really firearms do I have to subtract the cost of all this air gun gear from my regular guns and ammo budget? I still have other craves going.
    I would say NO, air guns are a separate hobby from powder burning guns. Kinda like playing golf. I refer to my air gun as "my BB gun" to put the family in the right state of mind.

    The Youtube video of the homemade air gun needs to be forwarded to all the anti-gun people.
    Last edited by jim Glass; 05-03-2018 at 04:27 PM.

  12. #72
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    OK, good to get that all cleared up, there might be a sale or something that needed quick attention.

    Thompson Center might have another rebate deal or something and I still need a .243.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Antonyraison's Avatar
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    And I agree air guns are a separate thing..
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    Ah, it seems many have given you good advice. But I didn't see anyone mention the 230 foot pounds of muzzle energy from the .50 air gun. Yes, I said .50 caliber. But you don't need that info, right?
    Stay scoped and keep your eye on the target.
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  15. #75
    Senior Member Antonyraison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScopedIn View Post
    Ah, it seems many have given you good advice. But I didn't see anyone mention the 230 foot pounds of muzzle energy from the .50 air gun. Yes, I said .50 caliber. But you don't need that info, right?
    I heard of them.. but sheesh I rather get a proper rifle if I need that kind of power, likely would be a lot cheaper too
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  16. #76
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    You are correct about that Antony.

    The .50 caliber starts at $700 U.S. and goes up from there.

    Add to that the need for a pressure tank to feed it, because it only gets a couple of shots per fill, and the compressor to feed the tank which equalizes very quickly at the rate of use of the tank.

    Gun $700 + scope cost
    Tank and regulator $400
    Compressor $400-$4000

    And this is not considered a "back yard friendly air rifle". You are going to use it like any big game gun, which is on the hunt.

    Then you factor in the fact that a .50 black powder muzzle loader shooting the same 180 grain round ball at 1500 fps, which is a moderate load, produces 800 ft/lbs energy, or the .50 S&W which produces 2800 ft/lb energy and the .50 air gun does not seem such a mighty beast. Its 230 ft/lb is the same as a .38 special revolver load.

    It is easy to get over enthused over these air gun numbers until you compare them to "real guns".

    Even the .22 and .177 rifles, at their most powerful, are barely up to rim fire CB cap performance levels. Most are well below that figure, and the very best of them can barely touch the power of a .22 short standard velocity.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 05-10-2018 at 08:06 AM.

  17. #77
    Senior Member Antonyraison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    You are correct about that Antony.

    The .50 caliber starts at $700 U.S. and goes up from there.

    Add to that the need for a pressure tank to feed it, because it only gets a couple of shots per fill, and the compressor to feed the tank which equalizes very quickly at the rate of use of the tank.

    Gun $700 + scope cost
    Tank and regulator $400
    Compressor $400-$4000

    And this is not considered a "back yard friendly air rifle". You are going to use it like any big game gun, which is on the hunt.

    Then you factor in the fact that a .50 black powder muzzle loader shooting the same 180 grain round ball at 1500 fps, which is a moderate load, produces 800 ft/lbs energy, or the .50 S&W which produces 2800 ft/lb energy and the .50 air gun does not seem such a mighty beast. Its 230 ft/lb is the same as a .38 special revolver load.

    It is easy to get over enthused over these air gun numbers until you compare them to "real guns".

    Even the .22 and .177 rifles, at their most powerful, are barely up to rim fire CB cap performance levels. Most are well below that figure, and the very best of them can barely touch the power of a .22 short standard velocity.
    True... saying that I picked up a cheap used .177 springer used... hahaha It is just for fun also and messing around couldnt say no at like 45usd
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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    You are correct about that Antony.

    The .50 caliber starts at $700 U.S. and goes up from there.

    Add to that the need for a pressure tank to feed it, because it only gets a couple of shots per fill, and the compressor to feed the tank which equalizes very quickly at the rate of use of the tank.

    Gun $700 + scope cost
    Tank and regulator $400
    Compressor $400-$4000

    And this is not considered a "back yard friendly air rifle". You are going to use it like any big game gun, which is on the hunt.

    Then you factor in the fact that a .50 black powder muzzle loader shooting the same 180 grain round ball at 1500 fps, which is a moderate load, produces 800 ft/lbs energy, or the .50 S&W which produces 2800 ft/lb energy and the .50 air gun does not seem such a mighty beast. Its 230 ft/lb is the same as a .38 special revolver load.

    It is easy to get over enthused over these air gun numbers until you compare them to "real guns".

    Even the .22 and .177 rifles, at their most powerful, are barely up to rim fire CB cap performance levels. Most are well below that figure, and the very best of them can barely touch the power of a .22 short standard velocity.
    The old "compared to firearms" argument. Of course, no debater would be left unprepared for this. My rebuttle?

    YOURE STUPID! Lmao. No, I'm not that childish, just figured I'd put on an act.

    Yes, compared to a true firearm it is no champion but among air guns it stands in it's own class. Mind you, not all of us can own a powder burning gun. I'm one of those many who, due to being stupid when I was younger, cannot own a firearm. So for me, the Sam Yang Dragonclaw .50 is very much a viable option for me when it comes to hunting bigger game. As well, there is no need for a compressor or separate air tank as it has dual air tanks which can hold 500 cc of air, giving me a few shots on full power. Or several on lower power. It can be refilled with a basic bicycle pump as well.

    As for the ammo, I would prefer the 210 grain hollow points or round nose pellets. I can cast my own ammo without having to worry about powder or reloading equipment. It also requires less regular maintenance than a firearm. It's quite than a regular firearm as well.

    At 50 yards or less, why would I need a scope on it to shoot a deer? It has iron sights that are accurate enough to take a heart shot on a deer at 50 yards and drop it in it's tracks. There are also arrows you can get to turn it into an air bow for more versatility. The ammo is far cheaper than most firearms ammo as well. Though less readily available in stores.

    Given proper precaution, it can be a backyard gun if you have very few neighbors and buildings. A .22 air rifle is a backyard gun, I'm not talking about a backyard gun. I'm talking about something that can be considered for a survival tool to hunt with while staying under the radar compared to the report of a firearm.
    Stay scoped and keep your eye on the target.
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  19. #79
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Well that answers a lot of questions.

    However, I will just go on using my air guns for what I bought them for, recreational plinking and pest control, while I hunt big and small game with the real guns I bought for that purpose.

    No real need for me to press a substitute into a roll for which it is not really suited.

  20. #80
    Senior Member Antonyraison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    Well that answers a lot of questions.

    However, I will just go on using my air guns for what I bought them for, recreational plinking and pest control, while I hunt big and small game with the real guns I bought for that purpose.

    No real need for me to press a substitute into a roll for which it is not really suited.
    Same here why I have air guns.
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