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Thread: Armed guards in schools - thoughrs.

  1. #61
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    There you have it Mrs B.

    The root cause of our concerns.

    Putting 25 people that don't known $h!t about a gun in a room to decide what laws will be imposed on the rest of the nation.


  2. #62
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    There you have it Mrs B.

    The root cause of our concerns.

    Putting 25 people that don't known $h!t about a gun in a room to decide what laws will be imposed on the rest of the nation.
    I totally agree, kyrat.
    Something has to be done, but banning certain firearms ain't it. Enforcing the existing laws, however, would be a great start, imho.

  3. #63
    Senior Member 2dumb2kwit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BENESSE View Post
    Thanks, Crash.
    My access to a variety of firearms is extremely limited here and theoretical knowledge is just that-theoretical. As with any tool, you have to actually use it in order to appreciate what it's all about.

    Several months ago I bought myself a nail gun. I was working alongside a carpenter who was doing some work in our apartment and he thought I should try it out. It was heavy, unwieldy and it seemed to have a lot power that could inflict some damage if not used correctly. I almost gave up but he kept encouraging me. Well, once I got the hang of it, I wondered how I managed to live without it all these years. So I got one...from Santa.
    Police: Why does this robber/rapist have 37 nails sticking out of his chest and head?

    Ms. B: I didn't have time to reload.
    Writer of wrongs.
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  4. #64
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit View Post
    Police: Why does this robber/rapist have 37 nails sticking out of his chest and head?

    Ms. B: I didn't have time to reload.

    Nice to see you 2D, where you been?

  5. #65
    Ed edr730's Avatar
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    At one time we had the broken window theory now we have the promise program.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Desert Rat!'s Avatar
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    https://www.browardprevention.org/behavior/promise/ It looks like the Florida School shooter may have been part of this program, maybe a reason for no criminal record,( just my thoughts no proof that's the case)

  7. #67
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Rat! View Post
    https://www.browardprevention.org/behavior/promise/ It looks like the Florida School shooter may have been part of this program, maybe a reason for no criminal record,( just my thoughts no proof that's the case)
    Yeah, but there was a "mental" record a mile long and so many "heads up" about his potential danger that it boggles the mind how he wasn't stopped. People said something because they saw plenty...and it meant nothing. That's what I'm mad about.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Desert Rat!'s Avatar
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    I'm with you missB , something is truly wrong here.

  9. #69
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Government failed at every level to prevent this shooting that was very preventable. Now, many want that same government to take away our guns with the caveat that we'll protect you. I don't think so.
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  10. #70

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    The promise program is yet another attempt to parent children that have no or rotten parents.

    There seems to be a backlash to the backlash of gun violence. It's heating up.

    My wife is a elementary school PE teacher. She is asking for a gate at the back of the field so that if they have to evacuate they don't have to go through the school. Evacuation is the last ditch act to try and escape the shooter in the A.L.I.C.E. program in place. Alert. Lockdown. Inform. Counter. Evacuate. The first 3 are admins actions. The last 2 are up to the teacher. Counter is locking the door. Lay down. Silence. If the shooter is trying to get in anyway... Evacuate any way you can. Break a window and get out for example. Here is where the fence around the school with one entrance and exit fails. The shooter will likely know that one exit. There's no easy fix.
    Last edited by madmax; 03-03-2018 at 07:55 AM.

  11. #71

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    This state is trying to fast-track two laws described as "extreme risk protection orders." Here is the state gun-owners association legislative alert:
    http://blog.goal.org/goal-alert-oppose-erpo/

    I'd watch out for these types of things.
    While they may sound good, they only really target licensed gun owners in their wording. There is no provision in the text to search a felon's living accommodations for illegal weapons and no other license revocations are mentioned. It gives law enforcement officers the power of "diagnosis" but gives no outline as to what qualifications the LEO should use or have. In a place where quite a few police chiefs believe "only crazy people want to own guns," this opens new doors for them, while providing no help and might possibly precipitate attacks given the long action sequence required.

    And once you do something with the ones that act out (multiple police visits, incarcerations, or violent history,) what do you do about the ones who are true psychopaths who shows no signs until the moment of the crime?
    Last edited by LowKey; 03-03-2018 at 11:48 AM.
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  12. #72
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Not only do they target legal gun owners, they violate their Constitutional rights at several levels.
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  13. #73
    Senior Member WalkingTree's Avatar
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    My sister's boyfriend's son...he's 10 or 12 or something like that, she says that he's "SO smart and grown-up" (over the phone, me and my sister are separated by a few U.S. states). She puts a lot of emphasis on it, that it boggles her mind. Him and his dad are outdoorsy...fishing, hunting, etc. She says that he is so absolutely intelligent and "together". I think that he was simply exposed to things early and taught right.

    I think that they should focus more on education and qualification. As in you have to demonstrate a high standard of responsibility and proficiency before legally allowed to own a firearm (not necessarily including marksmanship). Whether you think of one then the other as a right or a privilege...it's like with having a driver's license. I think that it's too easy to get one. The things that you have to demonstrate in your driving test, and the questions that you have to answer in your written test...don't come close to what's needed to operate a motor vehicle alongside of others, which itself can be deemed a deadly weapon. There's a befuddlement here - the thing that's called a privilege is easy to get, and the thing that's called a right is a little harder to get (? I think, going by what many say).

    Of course, after requiring some demonstration of responsibility and knowledge, we're still left with a person's intentions or psychological stability. That's harder to test for or recognize, and leaves a big door open for ambiguity and subjectivity. Even abuse.

    On a wacky note: Was channel surfing. Ran across the original Battlestar Galactica. Pilot was on some planet, in some village of humans wherein there was a malfunctioning Cylon (a robot dude. Cylons want to kill all humans.) And this cylon was just obeying a particular wanabe gangster type human, like he was a hired gunslinger. The pilot was thinking of confronting this cylon, with his laser gun on his hip...

    ...this woman and the pilot were arguing, and she was saying "my husband was killed by a laser", not wanting the lazer gun to be in the house or carried into town. And then when someone potentially hostile was approaching the house, she ran to grab the rifle that was hanging over the fireplace.

    Struck me as so funny. And made me think of all this. My husband was killed by a lazer. Not the robots out to kill all humans, but the laser. Y'all will be happy to know that the Viper pilot responded with "my wife was killed with a laser", and proceeded to say something about the hand that wielded the lazer.

    - - - -

    Kinda sorta off topic, but very related (work places versus schools, but can still apply): I worry about how we always focus on how bad the shooter is...or the one trying to stab people, or whatever, in some group setting. They are always bad or messed up in some way...always their fault completely. Not that it's okay for someone to do that, and not that they aren't apparently messed up in some way for deciding to do such a thing. But we almost never hear any commentary on what may be going on socially within a given group that someone ends up targeting...except for attention given to "bullying" in social media or in a school, I guess.

    That'd be really hard to do and nail down, of course, and even be quite awful after such an incident. But, for example, every industry in general, and every workplace in particular, is quite prone to having a kind of culture and bubble of it's own. Even in the same school, one year's class and another's can be very different from each other, concerning total behavoral zeitgeist. It often turns out that these kinds of bubbles intrinsically encourage certain bad tendencies in human nature, for the group collectively. I've seen it happen a lot, my whole life, in different workplaces and other settings. An individual will get done very wrong, and the group be completely in the wrong. Whenever you have this happen on an extreme scale and/or in an ongoing fashion, and combine it with someone who might be more prone to having this kind of response for a variety of reasons...I'm sure that some cases are like this and the group was asking for it (so to speak). It doesn't make it ok, and I'm not downplaying any victims or their tragedy, but I think that's something that gets forgotten when people think of this stuff because of the coverage...that in a mass killing there may be some instances wherein it wasn't "just because he/she was unstable or disgruntled".

    Just like how the metoo movement worries me. Hate those double-edged swords: Metoo would go a long way to help things, yet I bet that many people are way too quick to believe accusers, and way too willing to lie and abuse the power this movement gives them.
    Last edited by WalkingTree; 03-07-2018 at 07:24 PM.
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  14. #74
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    I don't think that the government, at any level, should be in the business of deciding when a person can legally own a firearm. "The Government" is already up to its eyebrows in our business anyway. They can't perform the functions to which they have been assigned by The Constitution, so what they do is get in our business to smoke screen the fact that they are incompetent.

    Alan

  15. #75
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Because they can.

  16. #76

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    kids and safty are nothing more than selling points. the real message is
    the wholesale banning of firearms in america. children are but pawns in this
    war to disarm america. as for safety that's a joke. our govt allows drug companies
    to push phychotropics drugs to children. full well knowing for over 3 decades
    that they cause people to go on rampages and commit suicide as well.
    always it's get the guns get the guns it's a mantra of the left.
    coyotes listen to them, like children of the night what music they make.

  17. #77

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    The nutjobs could be doing far more damage with more easily-obtained, more deadly weapons, of which I will not speak, and get away with it, to repeat. Move the cops and metal detectors from the courthouse, DMV, SS, etc, to the schools where they are actually needed.. Adults can carry their own guns. Kids cannot.

  18. #78

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    We need to start by hardening the building and zoning fire alarms. That might have saved kids.

  19. #79
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    I've said it before...

    My dad went to Texas A&M. He had a ring. On the ring is an eagle and shield. I have little eagle/shields tattooed all over the back of my head. Every time I even thought about doing something stupid, much less unsafe with a gun, .... whap! another tattoo.

    If there was more tattooing from an early age there would be fewer problems all around.

    Alan

  20. #80
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    I got up 188 mornings of 24 years and went off to work with one of my thought processes centering around "what if" scenarios involving students with guns. I only, personally, had to take two guns from children who had brought them to school with a specific purpose in mind. I was involved in obtaining several more while helping others. There were a number more that were simply brought out of negligence (notice I did not say "by accident"). In those 24 years there was never a shot fired. I feel fortunate.

    In those 24 years I never once had a firearm at school or even on the school grounds. That would have been against the law. I had my two hands and my wits to protect a school full of children.... There are those who believe that is woefully lacking in effectiveness.

    The thing that prevents school shootings is ridged parenting and home schooling of moral and ethical behavior and thought, so that education can take place at school. Until we return to teaching children strong moral and ethical values, our spiral into the pit will continue. It will not matter what laws are passed or bans that occur. Criminals and reprobates don't follow laws or have moral and ethical values by their very nature.

    Oh, and NOT killing people IS a moral issue, not a legal one. In fact it's in the "Top Ten" moral No-No's.

    Alan

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