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Thread: Hawaii Missle Threat

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    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Default Hawaii Missle Threat

    For 30 looooong minutes, people in Hawaii seriously thought it was TEOTWATKI. Had a 30 min drill to beat all drills.
    Imagine my surprise when I checked in here for some good ol' Monday morning quarterbacking and all I saw was crickets on the topic.

    I guess if it didn't happen, it doesn't count. Some people are just hard to please.


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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    My cynicism would have caused me to post it in the political sub forum, and I try to avoid that when I can.
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    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    My cynicism would have caused me to post it in the political sub forum, and I try to avoid that when I can.
    I hear you Crash.
    But as a point of discussion one shouldn't assume a warning like that is a false alarm when it happens. So then what does one do with a 30min advance notice? I can only imagine the pandemonium in NYC and me in the middle of it. So yeah, I've given it some thought.

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I have thought about it as well....and glad I'm not in a main target area....
    Basement for us.

    Actually there was some talk about it in the local/national news...here.....but you are right you would have thought that would have been more.
    Last edited by hunter63; 01-19-2018 at 09:47 PM.
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    I've never been to HI so take this with a grain of salt, BUT- just looking a map it looks like if you weren't in downtown Honolulu it wouldn't take too long from anywhere else to get to some kind of natural shelter. A cove, a cave, etc. Even the largest island is still pretty small. Plus DPRK doesn't have the kind of precise and powerful ICBMs that the US and Russia have. Hell, it might not even go off.

    Sucky as the false alarm was, hopefully it will spark some planning and discussion. What kind of civil defense system does HI have? Are there civilian-accessible public shelters/bunkers? One would think that being an island state they'd have shelters for use in hurricanes which seem like they'd be pretty good shelter against a nuke.

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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BENESSE View Post
    I hear you Crash.
    But as a point of discussion one shouldn't assume a warning like that is a false alarm when it happens. So then what does one do with a 30min advance notice? I can only imagine the pandemonium in NYC and me in the middle of it. So yeah, I've given it some thought.
    On Oahu there is not much you can do with 30 minutes notice. When I lived there the distance from my apartment in Waikiki to the ferry to get to Ford Island in the middle of Pearl Harbor (there is a bridge now) was about 10-12 miles and took about 10-15 minutes. Now it probably takes about an hour. The population has either trippled or quadrupled since I lived there and the island didn't get any bigger.

    In the less populated areas of the island traffic isn't too bad. Sheltering in place is pretty much the only option. Trade winds or Kona winds will become an issue for the fallout.

    A year or two ago a politician suggested using the tunnel system inside Diamond Head (WWII bunker system) as fallout shelters. I don't see how that would work on short notice with only a two lane road leading to Diamond Head.

    This reminds me of when I was first stationed at Bangor, Washington. Protesters were freaking out because news reports stated that a train carrying nuclear warheads was headed toward the base. (The weapons had arrived weeks before the protests began) Protesters blocked the train. News crews interviewed everybody they could. It really was rather entertaining. One crew stuck a camera in the face of an elderly resident and asked what he would do if nuclear missiles were head in, since he lived next to ground zero. His reply was priceless. It went something like...... I'd pour a glass of wind and cuddle with my wife. The reporter was speechless.

    All of that being said, I imagine that the panic and fear were very, very real.
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    Since this is the state of most fallout shelters these days, I doubt there is very much "readiness" left.
    http://www.universalhub.com/2014/goo...elters-anymore
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    Given the "efficiency" of most thermonukes in this day and age what good would any 30 minute readiness do on an archipelago? If you didn't go in the initial blast the resulting radiation sickness would be a whole lot worse I would think. Just my 4 bits (inflation, you know).

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    Here you go B
    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/...allout-shelter


    Think about it though. Have you ever ignored the fire horns in a store or mall? I always move toward the exit but most people just keep on shopping.
    Last edited by LowKey; 01-20-2018 at 09:35 AM.
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    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    This type of scenario had been way back in my mind but it didn't seem real enough to actually worry about it on any regular basis.
    The Hawaii incident made me think about it a little more. Even a false alarm can create enough havoc especially in a place like NYC that you could get hurt in the process without the incident ever occurring.

    Sometimes even a little planning and running the drill in your head is better than being in denial. Emotional preparedness is the first and most important step in dealing with whatever's coming at you--be it illness, man-made or a natural disaster.

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    Apparently there was a similar "scare" in Japan at about the same time, coincidence??

    About all you could do on an Island type threat like that is call loved ones and then stick your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye or go to some scenic outlook and enjoy the last view

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    Years ago, back in the 1950s "Duck & Cover" days, Rod Serling, writer/producer of The Twilight Zone, made a couple of very interesting episodes about "fallout shelters" and "the day after."

    Seems to me in the event of an atomic attack, things would not be a great deal different than what was in those several episodes.

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    To me this kind of thing, what to do during a missile launch, is of no concern or interest. Nor is the reaction of the metro masses. They made their choice ant this is the pay off.

    It falls into the category of things I can do absolutely nothing about. Sorry to add that it also falls into the category of things I do not care about.

    I spent my first 50 years living under the threat of nuclear war. Then there was a ten year break and we learned to live under threat of terror attack. Now we face terrorists with nukes. It is just the next phase and we will get past it or we will not. That decision is out of my hands and being made by a strange little man on the other side of the world.

    To me the answer to the problem is as clear as looking back on Hitler in 1937, "Take him out". But they will not do that. They will wheel and deal and be blackmailed into submission by this little man.

    We have no control over those decisions.

    Fortunately this little man does not have a large arsenal, just enough to take out Hawaii, possibly empty the west coast for eternity, or melt Washington DC.

    What is the down side?

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    Senior Member Manwithnoname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    To me this kind of thing, what to do during a missile launch, is of no concern or interest. Nor is the reaction of the metro masses. They made their choice ant this is the pay off.

    It falls into the category of things I can do absolutely nothing about. Sorry to add that it also falls into the category of things I do not care about.

    I spent my first 50 years living under the threat of nuclear war. Then there was a ten year break and we learned to live under threat of terror attack. Now we face terrorists with nukes. It is just the next phase and we will get past it or we will not. That decision is out of my hands and being made by a strange little man on the other side of the world.

    To me the answer to the problem is as clear as looking back on Hitler in 1937, "Take him out". But they will not do that. They will wheel and deal and be blackmailed into submission by this little man.

    We have no control over those decisions.

    Fortunately this little man does not have a large arsenal, just enough to take out Hawaii, possibly empty the west coast for eternity, or melt Washington DC.

    What is the down side?
    I see no down side.

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    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    To me this kind of thing, what to do during a missile launch, is of no concern or interest. Nor is the reaction of the metro masses. They made their choice ant this is the pay off.

    It falls into the category of things I can do absolutely nothing about. Sorry to add that it also falls into the category of things I do not care about.
    You may not be able to do anything about it (just like in the case of natural disasters) but you'll feel the consequences of major disruptions even if you don't care about who gets taken out. And it is those disruptions, regardless of what causes them, that all of us here try to prepare for. You too, I'm sure.

    The consequences of 9/11 were felt beyond NYC. I guess all those who lost their lives in the twin towers made their choice and that was the payoff...the way people choose to live in the tornado-prone areas, flood zones, near nuclear plants, etc etc. Heck, we're not all blessed to be able to live in Kentucky.

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    Senior Member Manwithnoname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BENESSE View Post
    You may not be able to do anything about it (just like in the case of natural disasters) but you'll feel the consequences of major disruptions even if you don't care about who gets taken out. And it is those disruptions, regardless of what causes them, that all of us here try to prepare for. You too, I'm sure.

    The consequences of 9/11 were felt beyond NYC. I guess all those who lost their lives in the twin towers made their choice and that was the payoff...the way people choose to live in the tornado-prone areas, flood zones, near nuclear plants, etc etc. Heck, we're not all blessed to be able to live in Kentucky.
    Benesse, I cannot speak for kyrs, but I'm betting he's pretty close to the same philosophy as me. I'm also betting a lot more people here share that philosophy than don't. The best way I know to summarize.......Hank Williams Jr-, Country boy can survive. There are some inherant nuclear things you just can't survive, so what the point in worrying? Someone else here said it earlier, and without any real time experience I can only agree with them about today's nukes being far more efficient. All any of us have for real life examples are 70+ years ago. Even if today's are only menially more efficient, if you live in a metro area that gets hit, without some kind of divine intervention you're gonna die. Even if you're lucky enough to duck the initial blast you're not gonna get away from the radiation. I don't care how many bob, bov, guns, ammo or masks you have. I'm right there with kyrs, I'm not worrying about something I have no control over. Where i live is nowhere near one of the areas the only idiot in the world who might launch would hit. Even if he did, he wouldn't live long enough to know where he hit. As long as I'm not in a fallout zone of a hit, I'm good. I might be 19th century, but I'm good with that too.

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    Years ago I learned in business school that there are just so many things you can control. They called it the sphere of control. It works well in life in general. It's really a pretty small circle of things you can actually control. A bit larger circle of things you can influence and the rest of the stuff you just deal with the best you can because you have no control over it and no influence over it.

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    Although Hiroshima was a smaller bomb than what is now used - there were survivors 2 miles from the blast. I read a book about it when I was 15. The planes would come over every day and the warning sirens would go off on approach, and nothing happened for a week. The Japanese were lulled into a complacency. Then it happened.

    Those that survived all tell a different story of how they avoided the radiation without any knowledge. The blast pushed one boy who was fishing, deep into the water. Another was a girl who was in a white linen shop surrounded by mattress and sheets. etc.

    The people that survived, really failed to leave the city fast enough after the bomb. The radiation sickness was devastating. They needed to be more than 25 miles away.

    And keep in mind you are not going to be able to drive away, a typical car today has some twenty cpu processors, that are not EMP hardened.


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    Default How It Was (for me)

    Well... being parental, the first 15 minutes or so after receiving the initial cell phone Civil Defense notice were quite an emotional roller coaster to say the least.

    My wife of 27 years had left for work earlier that morning which is 30-45 minutes commute on the BEST day of traffic.
    So I called her to remind her just how much spending our lives together meant to me.

    (I'll never see her again)

    I then tried in vain to call my eldest (25) who was working cutting grass for an elderly neighbor a few miles away.
    His phone was off, so I left a voicemail telling him how proud I was of the man he'd become
    and asked him to please call home if he got my message.

    (There's a chance I'll see him again if he gets my message in time)

    After which, came the task of waking my two daughters (24 and 13) to explain what was happening and tell them,
    "Good-bye".

    (I'll watch them die)

    Depending on your domestic situation, you may or may not be able to imagine what a complete mind f*&% all this was to me.


    However, with time, the initial shock passed and I began to think clearer.

    No.
    Since I live on the east side of island of Hawai'i, this puts just over 210 miles and about 13,800 ft. of mount Mauna Kea between me and what I figured would be the usual primary target:
    The island of Oahu.

    ...and with this island being roughly the size of Vermont,
    most of it rural or rain forest, there are no Civil Defense shelters here.
    You're on your own.

    Having grown up with hurricanes/hurricane warnings since childhood, you always live somewhat prepared here and I began to take quick mental stock of the household variables;

    How much water is in the catchment tanks?
    What's in the freezer and pantry?
    I still have time seal the windows...

    You shake it off, nut up and start to go to work.


    Luckily within a few looong minutes, that oddly seem to fly by, the "False Alarm" came through
    and I hastily remade my earlier phone calls to my loved ones to make sure they knew.
    A reunion of sorts.


    It didn't take long before the finger pointing, outrageous theories and insipid jokes hit the web
    (along with videos of people on Oahu putting their children in manholes).
    I guess this is just how some people deal with it and are able to move on.


    All in all, I must say that I honestly don't think I've fully recovered yet.
    Personally.


    I was a kid during the Reagan era, and got use to living with the sword of the cold war over my head,
    becoming somewhat desensitized by the movies (Red Dawn, War Games, etc.) and even the lyrics to the music of the day
    but it never went as far as "This in not a drill" in reality.

    THIS really took the emotional needle into the red for me.

    Nightmares?
    You fuggin' bet.

    PTSD?
    If that's what you'd call it, maybe.

    Anger?
    Yeah, sometimes I think of what all this "mistake" has put my family through and feel it's downright inexcusable.

    Rethinking a few things?
    Oh most definitely.

    Hey, that's how I found this site.
    Innit?


    Okay, thanks for letting me vent.

    Aloha-
    Papa G

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