Growing your own Food

**Chris** · 04-02-2007, 09:17 AM

Yes, it is possible, but there would be other problems.

For instance a lack of vitamin D, human beings need exposure to sunlight to make vitamin D.

Also, plants grown under lights are slightly different than plants grown in sun and they may lack key vitamins.

Then of course, you'd need electricity.

The practice is generally referred to as hydroponics.

Solid human waste isn't a good fertilizer as well. There is too great of a risk of pathogens if it is used to fertilize food crops, it would need to be heavily processed. Urine is sterile though and would be fine if it is diluted and the human making it doesn't eat a lot of salt.

**BSM** · 04-02-2007, 05:17 PM

As for lacking key vitamins, we only know what the bare minimum is needed to avoid diseases like rickets and the such. In fact, that's what the daily-recommended value is. The absolute minimum needed. As for what we should eat, nutrition is complicated subject. First of all, each individual normally has slightly different nutritional needs (male, female; old, young; etc). Secondly, the FDA hasn't been able to agree on it. Look at the old food pyramid. They stood by it for decades, telling a person that is how they should eat. Now they have changed it, telling people the old system leads to obesity (too many Carbohydrates, i.e. grains). Which, in effect, is an admission to not knowing what they were doing in the first place. Not exactly confidence inspiring. But all of that is besides the point. There are viable ecosystems that exist without sunlight around volcanic vents on the ocean floor. So viable, they support a food chain big enough to have crabs on top (edible?). Obviously, this ecosystem would be near impossible to recreate in an aquarium, and just as obviously not productive enough to justify the space and energy needs to house it in an underground vault. Again, this, while interesting, is not directly pertinent as well. (I wander, sorry)

As for electricity, I don't see any reason windmills wouldn't work on the service. Irradiated or not, the wind would still turn the turbines and create electricity which could be sent underground. Problems would range from maintenance to possible scavenging of the equipment topside by survivors. Also, if someone had the proper resources, the could create a falling tube, through which an artesian well could be allowed to bubble over the top, fall through, and hit a water wheel at the bottom. The problem obviously being disposing of the used water.

As for human feces being a good fertilizer isn't necessarily pertinent. The object not being comfort, but survival. Many countries use human feces to fertilize crops relatively safely (China comes to mind).

The question would be if the nutritional deficiencies would kill the occupants before they reached childbearing age. (Thus eliminating the possibility of long term survival, this not even taking in account the psychological effects of living one's entire life underground in close proximity to others).

I'm not particularly sure how many kWh one would need per month to support the facility. Being underground would keep the ambient temperature about 55 degrees Fahrenheit, which would mean some heating would be needed. Thankfully, this is true regardless of the topside temperature, so Nuclear winter wouldn't necessarily increase power demands.

I'm looking for brainstorming. Good ideas, bad ideas. Hypotheses. Crack-pot theories, anything. The more practical the better, but anything is appreciated. Remember, I'm not looking for a perfect survival. So, let’s say if the living circumstances shorten the population's average life span to 38. That's okay. As long as it is sustainable, and survival is possible.

Thanks Chris, (and anyone else who wants to jump in)
BSM

**vf/mo** · 04-05-2007, 10:41 PM

Heres a website for a girl that lives in NY and has a pretty elaborate garden in her back yard.
http://gardengirltv.com/index.html

Check out the video section.

**marberry** · 05-30-2007, 09:08 PM

im proud to say im prepaired for WW3 , ill immeditially go into the wilderness of northern manitoba (almost no people there) and survive off the land and the 2 years worth of jerky i have stockpiled lol. jery is THE best survival food , it goes for years without going bad , is easy to make , and only takes 6 hours to make (if you have the meat)

**trax** · 07-23-2007, 12:04 PM

Hey marcraft, nice to meet a fellow Manitoban. I'm pretty sure there's plenty of room left up north (I grew up there) that we won't be tripping over each other's survival camps. I just wanted to add a couple of things...

1. Pemmican, it'll keep you alive for along time, easy to make too
2. Underground farming, the mines in Flin Flon are being used to produce medical marijuana.

**wareagle69** · 07-28-2007, 11:02 AM

i think that if there was a nuclear attack it would be in such a small scale that maybe only hundreds of miles would be affected, the collapse of infrastucture would be the true disaster look a 911 what it did to the economy, that is my worry ,that and all the people who have not learned and prepared for such an event, all the naysayers say i am paranoid but it has already taken place ie the blackoput and 911 what if it were on a much larger scale, my fear is not dying, who knows maybe i would not want to survive something like that although curiosity does get the best of me, how would i do what would the world be like, but my worry is for my family if something was to happen to me, myself i could dissapear into the bush,maybe to find more likeminded people to survive with but i know my extended family could not deal with that, and as a man i must protect my family to the end..no matter what the personal cost may be to me

rangers lead the way.

**mangyhyena** · 07-31-2007, 08:12 AM

Once we obtain our homestead I don't intend to plant anything that isn't edible. I want our property to produce as much food as possible so we can get into canning and preserving. And I want to cut our grocery bill down as much as I can. To my way of thinking, we just continue planting food-bearing plants a little at a time, as money allows. Sooner or later we'll be growing enough to see us through rough times.

I do love sweet potatoes. I'll have to throw those into the mix as well.

**LakeLady** · 08-01-2007, 03:13 PM

Gardening is not my forte but I'm thinking that the time has come to start learning. Can I grow food in a sun room during the winter?

**LakeLady** · 08-01-2007, 03:15 PM

OH................and if so what?

**trax** · 08-01-2007, 04:10 PM

Pretty much whatever you can make fit, I think. You sure could grow a whack of berries, I think. But there's probably someone here who actually knows, so I'll just shut up now. I garden about as well as I perform brain surgery (don't ask my patients, they're not talking

)

**LakeLady** · 08-01-2007, 07:42 PM

Sounds like my garden experience....LOL

**trax** · 08-02-2007, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by LakeLady

Sounds like my garden experience....LOL

Yeah, twice in my life I've had a place where I thought I could give it a try

"How hard can it be?" I asked myself naively.

Two weeks later, staring at a field of sunbaked clay and weeds...hmmmm, harder than it looks. My Dad was an awesome gardener and I figured I'd get some kind of genetic fallout or something...no chance. But then, I'm a better hunter than he was so I guess there's a tradeoff, LOL

**spiritman** · 08-02-2007, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by LakeLady

Sounds like my garden experience....LOL

Sounds like my brain surgery experience...

**wareagle69** · 08-03-2007, 08:13 PM

i have spent hundreds of dollars stockpiling food and other esentails over the years only to come to what the alcoholics refer to as a spiritual awakening of sorts i guess maybe err well okay what i think is what happens to all my preparedness if while at work my house burns down(main reason wife not allowed to cook anymore)there goes all my preperation.. my latsest craze is learning all about wild edibles plants and mycology. knowledge weighs allot less than packing all that gear around and will get you further in life

always be prepared

**wareagle69** · 08-04-2007, 05:40 PM

have a couple of caches around for a few reasons one being which way will i be able to go, i think we covered this in another thread, i know volwest talked about it, my e and e route may be blocked so i have several possible ways, yes i agree the basic staples much be stored then anything else foraged you can work with

always be prepared

**mangyhyena** · 08-05-2007, 11:20 PM

What if your house burns down? Well, can't we always cite things that would put us in a bind no matter how well we prepare. I'll cite one right now. You die. Then what?

OK, so figuring that bad things could happen and there are no guarantees in life, what can you do to increase the odds of your survival?

Multiple sources of essential survival supplies is one good way to start. You could, for instance, store food not only in your home but in a shed in your yard. That's two places, at least one of which is likely to survive a fire. If you're really slick you could place a cheap tin shed with no floor in your yard, go in and dig a hole, and then bury supplies in the ground. Move the shed once your supplies are safely buried. Now we're talking three places holding survival supplies and you haven't left your property yet. Stocking a survival retreat gives you a whole other option. Or perhaps caching at a survival retreat that is already stocked would be even better. Now we're talking supplies stashed in 5 places.

You can not guarantee your survival. All you can do is increase your odds of survival. Obtaining survival skills, survival supplies, survival plans, ect... increases your odds of survival. Operating from a position of fear is likely to leave your thinking unclear and your reasoning fuzzy at best. Operating with a can-do attitude based on optimism is the way to keep a cool head with sound reasoning, IMHO.

**marberry** · 02-20-2008, 11:59 PM

prepairing for disasters is a good hobby as long as you dont take it too far.

personally i say baked potatoes tast the best , sorta like a salty apple

**coldkill13** · 02-24-2008, 08:59 PM

Salty apple????? Anyway---I can't do anything without taking it too far.... Maybe I should change my name to " Cold-Overkill13 "

**coldkill13** · 02-24-2008, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Chris

However, my favorite way to make sweet potatoes is mashed with a bunch of cinnamon. You can also make a dough out of them to make bread products.

I know you posted this a long time ago but, have you got any good sweet potatoe bread recipes you'd like to share? I cant say I've ever tried it before but it sounds delicious and I'd love to try some! Thanks.